FSH BAT restoration

[rsc204 21,836]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:05 PM, rsc204 said:

What is it exactly you are trying to accomplish here?

That isn't a stupid question, I've read the entire thread and honestly, I'm not sure why you would need to mess about like this? Assuming you actually have the output FSH files, surely you would also have the matching S3D models too, no? I mean these two parts are one set. If someone has sent you a load of FSH/BMP files but not the S3D files, well that simply makes no sense. So if we assume you have the S3D models, why would you need to re-make the LODs (S3Ds)?

Again, assuming you have a proper SC4 Model file to start with, rather than faff about working with BMPs/FSH the hard way, GoFSH could make the process a lot less painful. See here:

The concept in terms of extracting/rebuilding the textures is identical, even if the editing parts are different.

I've downloaded your attachment, but since all you included are the textures (renders), what exactly do you expect us to surmise from this? In order to see what you are seeing, we need the S3D file for the image in question. You can just include the FSH/S3D in a single DAT, no need for the rest. At which point it would be easy to spot any obvious issues with either the S3D or FSH files.

[gutterclub 2,729]

If you read the thread you will understand that

a) I am very much a novice when it comes to output files/FSH etc etc, so not sure why you are coming across so bolshie.

b) You keep asking what I am trying to achieve and it seems like it is only yourself who is still unsure as everyone else including Debussyman and Cockatoo who supplied the instructions understood. So to summarize, I was looking for a simple way to take a rendered image in JPG form and insert those images into an SC4 file to make a building.

The concept is to take a BAT that was never exported, however looked finished and turn it into an 'exported building'.

If you believe this is completely the wrong way to take a rendered image and turn it into an exported model I would be most happy to hear how as that was the initial point of this topic.

 

[rsc204 21,836]

11 hours ago, gutterclub said:

If you read the thread you will understand that

I've already stated that wasn't the case. Yes the general gist of what you are doing is clear, but something doesn't fit...

11 hours ago, gutterclub said:

The concept is to take a BAT that was never exported, however looked finished and turn it into an 'exported building'.

And this is what doesn't make sense. Because if modelling was a simple as making an image file, then just slapping it on a LOD, we'd have a lot more models. That isn't what you are trying to do, because you are working with pre-rendered assets that have already been exported/rendered. Again, the reason why I'm a little confused is precisely because your statement doesn't make any sense. So either you've hit upon a new way of making models or perhaps there is something you don't properly understand? Which is why I'm trying to get more details, so I can deduce how best to help you.

11 hours ago, gutterclub said:

The concept is to take a BAT that was never exported, however looked finished and turn it into an 'exported

building'.

But if it was never exported, how come you have all the FSH files & BMPs in exported form? The output of your previous .zip file is literally the same as when exporting/rendering from 3DS Max. I.e. a bunch of folders all based on the assigned IID of the model (which itself comes from making the LODs in SC4 BAT, i.e. when rendering). So the obvious question is how did you get those files organised as such? The most likely answer is that someone did render them in 3DS Max, which means there must be a corresponding SC4Model file somewhere, containing the LODs/S3D files. I'm not saying you have it, but unless you've manually made all this, it simply must have existed. Because BAT4Max will not allow you to render unless pointed to such a model beforehand.

So do you have or don't you have the LOD/S3D files, it's a simple question and if you are wondering why people are getting "bolshie" with you, perhaps it's because I've already asked this question, but here I am, having to ask you again.

See here is a real problem when trying to help people, not having the information needed to do so. Sometimes people see something that's requested, think they know better, then simply don't provide it, because in their opinion it's not necessary. Other times, people simply don't properly read the help others selflessly give up their time to write. One feels sometimes like they are wasting their time trying. Rather than second guess why the information is requested, why not simply spend less time than I've taken with this reply, to give it to me, so that I might assist you?

 

[matias93 7,535]

If I understand this right, the building on the images ONLY exists as those images, there are no 3D models nor a SC4model file to use as a basis.

Now, I don't know how to model for the game, but from what I've learnt on this years, I guess the key would be to model a blank block of roughly the same shape as the one on the images, and then to replace the FSH images on the exported model with FSH files created from the screenshoot. I guess that won't look perfect, but it's much better than simply having an image of a lost model.

[rsc204 21,836]

1 hour ago, matias93 said:

If I understand this right, the building on the images ONLY exists as those images, there are no 3D models nor a SC4model file to use as a basis.

But this is exactly where I am confused, because in order to get those images, which have been clearly rendered, an SC4Model file must have been created during the process. On their own these image files are practically useless and anyone with an understanding of the make up of SC4 models should have known this. I'm surprised anyone with knowledge of that would even know where to find these images, they get buried away by the BAT4Max tools. The point is, modelling in SC4 does not at any stage involve making a texture that relates to the entire model. All texturing is done on independent elements within the 3D modelling app, which are then rendered into the coherent whole of textures shown here.

For me the most logical thing to ask is what happened to the SC4Model files, logically they existed, if you have them but don't realise their value, life would be about 100 times easier.

[matias93 7,535]

Yeah, I know, but maybe the model was indeed lost, maybe on a damaged hard drive or something like that. Or it's one of those models on the unfinished thread.

It's evident that this one is an unconventional and much clumsy way to make a BAT than outrightly modelling it, but I tend to think that, at least in sake of ingenuity, it would be interesting to know if a full BAT can be recovered simply from a screenshot. At the end, the models are indeed 2.5D origami-like objects, so they should be possible to create from flat images.

[Jasoncw 11,933]

You're definitely the one who is confused.

The original .SC4Model files don't exist because they were never exported. He's trying to take preview renders (in cases where all 4 rotations were posted) of lost/corrupt/abandoned BATs posted in BAT threads, and put them into new .SC4Model files. The same process as BAT4Max, except instead of replacing gmax renders with 3ds Max renders, replacing dummy renders with preview renders posted on the forum.

Or like when someone asks if it's possible to modify an existing building, and we answer "technically yes, but practically no". We say "technically yes" because we know that technically you can open the building up in photoshop and you can do anything you want. It's just incredibly difficult and time consuming to actually do. But that's what gutterclub is trying to do.

[gutterclub 2,729]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

But this is exactly where I am confused, because in order to get those images, which have been clearly rendered, an SC4Model file must have been created during the process. 

You are assuming so much, which makes me think you still haven't read the thread correctly, or maybe don't understand BAT4Max enough. You carry out a preview and save the preview image, this is the preview image. Us BATers will post this images into our BAT threads to show progress. It has NOT been outputted into a SC4model and never was, hence me asking the question 'if BAT4MAX technically takes rendered BMPs and inserts them into a Sc4model file, is there a way to manually do this using a preview image'.

Many BATTers responded to this thread saying they have done exactly that in the past, Cockatoo even stating that the export of the UN Centre was carried out this way for certain 'zooms'.

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

For me the most logical thing to ask is what happened to the SC4Model files, logically they existed, if you have them but don't realise their value, life would be about 100 times easier.

Once again, if you read the thread or have followed BAT threads such as Simfoxes, you would understand that SC4model files were never created, all we have of their amazing works is preview renders. Hence BAT 'ressurection', trying to find a way to bring this old BATs which people never finished into a 'finished' BAT or Sc4model file.

 

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

But if it was never exported, how come you have all the FSH files & BMPs in exported form? The output of your previous .zip file is literally the same as when exporting/rendering from 3DS Max

Again, if you read Cockatoos instructions, the idea is to render a box of similar shape to the preview render but to NOT carry out the last stage in BAT4MAX which is inserting the FSH files. Cockatoo said that at this stage you take the Output files and essentially take your preview images, which you would have made for all 4 zooms at all 4 directions (with alpha maps) and replace them over thr top of your output files, THEN click 'Insert FSH' in BAT4MAX. 

This is how I have output files.

[mattb325 28,880]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

if you are wondering why people are getting "bolshie" with you, perhaps it's because I've already asked this question, but here I am, having to ask you again.

See here is a real problem when trying to help people, not having the information needed to do so. Sometimes people see something that's requested, think they know better, then simply don't provide it, because in their opinion it's not necessary. Other times, people simply don't properly read the help others selflessly give up their time to write. One feels sometimes like they are wasting their time trying.

I don't think I could put it better myself, except it is you who has misread the post and as a result, it is you who has behaved in a bolshie fashion (not people as you purport).

More than 10 unique posters have understood the gist of this thread. 

For your benefit (and so that the rest of us don't have to witness a 'moderator' attacking yet another batter, again), let me summarise from reading through the thread prior to your interjection in 2016:

1) Gutterclub found a N, S, E and W Zoom 5 picture of a BAT he liked in a thread. The batter (Simfox) never released it and there is no possibility of doing so;

2) Cockatoo made an alpha image of the the above Bat and stated that it could be photoshopped for Z4, 3, 2 and 1 and then pasted onto a rendered Box of similar dimensions;

3) Other batters have done this and attempted to assist Gutterclub;

4) This is how he has output files (from following the assistance of other batters and their instructions).

I'm interested to see the outcome and resolution, it may have real merit once BAT4Max stops working for batters.

[rsc204 21,836]

1 hour ago, gutterclub said:

maybe don't understand BAT4Max enough

Did you watch the video I linked a few posts back? I made that video, so erm, I think you can't reasonably take the view I don't know how BAT4Max works in this regard. I've also successfully altered a number of existing models and re-compiled them, so I know the process very well. It's why I suggested using GoFSH, since it simplifies the process.

1 hour ago, gutterclub said:

You carry out a preview and save the preview image, this is the preview image

Which is exactly what I was asking, this fills in the blanks.

1 hour ago, gutterclub said:

Again, if you read Cockatoos instructions, the idea is to render a box of similar shape to the preview render but to NOT carry out the last stage in BAT4MAX which is inserting the FSH files. Cockatoo said that at this stage you take the Output files and essentially take your preview images, which you would have made for all 4 zooms at all 4 directions (with alpha maps) and replace them over thr top of your output files, THEN click 'Insert FSH' in BAT4MAX. 

Right, which means you must have an outdated version of BAT4Max, since no such option exists in the present one.

So, OK you don't have the original S3D/LODs, but you should have the re-made ones, so once more:

19 hours ago, rsc204 said:

In order to see what you are seeing, we need the S3D file for the image in question. You can just include the FSH/S3D in a single DAT, no need for the rest. At which point it would be easy to spot any obvious issues with either the S3D or FSH files.

Because, in order for you to get this:

20 hours ago, gutterclub said:

just shows up as original coloured box in Lot Editor at Zoom 5

You must have LODs and some sort of SC4 file, otherwise you wouldn't have a building/prop, so you'd get a brown box. The coloured box usually indicates that the model (S3D/LOD) is referencing a texture that can not be found. Ergo, the settings of that S3D or perhaps the ID of the texture is the most likely problem. So if you could provide said files, it would be quick to see which of these was your problem.

[mattb325 28,880]

5 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Did you watch the video I linked a few posts back? I made that video, so erm, I think you can't reasonably take the view I don't know how BAT4Max works in this regard. I've also successfully altered a number of existing models and re-compiled them, so I know the process very well. It's why I suggested using GoFSH, since it simplifies the process.

Which is exactly what I was asking, this fills in the blanks.

Right, which means you must have an outdated version of BAT4Max, since no such option exists in the present one.

So, OK you don't have the original S3D/LODs, but you should have the re-made ones, so once more:

Because, in order for you to get this:

You must have LODs and some sort of SC4 file, otherwise you wouldn't have a building/prop, so you'd get a brown box. The coloured box usually indicates that the model (S3D/LOD) is referencing a texture that can not be found. Ergo, the settings of that S3D or perhaps the ID of the texture is the most likely problem. So if you could provide said files, it would be quick to see which of these was your problem.

Stop attacking him, now.

You are monumentally off-piste with your line of thinking. The option to insert FSHs is still very much part of the export process.

[matias93 7,535]

14 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Right, which means you must have an outdated version of BAT4Max, since no such option exists in the present one.

Well, so much for that method then.

Luckily, Cédric has been using the Reader to extract and insert flat images of several building models to add "snow" to them:

As the images show, the flat FSH images were modified with Photoshop, which means it's not necesary to render the images as 'sides' of a new model.

Now this case is different because the base 2.5D model isn't available, so there is no shape on which the FSH images can wrap around. Hence my (assumedly ignorant) suggestion to make a new, roughly similar blank model on Gmax, export it as it is, and then use Cédric's method to replace the blank FSH images with the ones obtained from the screenshot.

 

[gutterclub 2,729]

Chill out guys, wow! @RSC204 - its just a game mate, maybe English isn't your native tongue and apologies if my assumption is incorrect but you are coming across as forceful and condescending over I thread I created, following instruction I was given. It's a 15 year old computer game, relax and enjoy it...speaking of assuming, I am using the latest version of Simfox BAT4Max v5. During the export it creates the output files and the last step it asks you to click ok to import. Unless there is a new version I am unaware of.

Ok. I set this out as an experiment with very limited knowledge and thus far, albeit without too much time to dedicate to it. Matt is absolutely right, this method could have some real value in the future so I would put it out there for some else to try.

1) Using the method prescribed by Cockatoo and Debussyman, using the images and alpha maps supplied by the great Cockatoo (or other preview renders, there are plenty with x4 views)

2) @RSC204 - being as I am so dumb, I would suggest that if you had time, you could attempt to take those images in this thread (Simfox Apartments), using your excellent, technical nous you have around FSH files and various tool see if there is another method other than BAT4MAX export process to get those render previews into a BAT?  Up to you of course

3) Someone skilled in writing programming or script create a tool that takes 4 rendered images and does the work for you and inserts them into an empty SC4 file?

[matias93 7,535]

7 minutes ago, gutterclub said:

Someone skilled in writing programming or script create a tool that takes 4 rendered images and does the work for you and inserts them into an empty SC4 file?

That sounds like a great idea! I remember having seen a thread on SC4D about making a replacement script for SC4BAT to make possible to export to SC4 from something different from Gmax or 3DSmax, considering that the support for the current tools is vanishing. Still, nobody there was able to make the programming. Maybe in this specific case, something could be done around GoFSH, but I'm no coder myself, so I'm only speculating (to keep the discussion as technical as possible)

[rsc204 21,836]

I'm not looking to get into an argument with anyone, let's just put everything else to one side and concentrate on the issue at hand.

1 hour ago, gutterclub said:

speaking of assuming, I am using the latest version of Simfox BAT4Max v5. During the export it creates the output files and the last step it asks you to click ok to import. Unless there is a new version I am unaware of.

OK, but what are you importing and how are you going about it? This is important, because if you understand each step that's going on, there are plenty of pitfalls you can fall foul of, all of which will give unintended results.

1. In order to export using either "DayExport" or "NiteExport" in 3DS Max, you MUST have first clicked "Select Target Model" and located an SC4Model file to use.
   This step is not optional, if you don't select such a file, you can not further proceed.
2. Once you have your SC4Model, which in essence contains your LODs, you must then render a model, what are you rendering?
   Again, this is not option, if your scene in 3DS max is blank/empty, you will get an error.

There is no option "Import Files", though I fear stating that is crossing blades, which is not my intent. But, do you understand exactly what is happening at this step? The textures it takes and inserts in the selected model file at this point, are not some textures you have in a folder. But the very ones it's just rendered from the scene as per Step 2 above.

So here is what I am trying to ascertain:

• Have you at any point made an SC4Model, containing your LODs?
  Opening in reader, the LODs appear as S3D models. These obviously won't have been supplied to you, but you still need them for a model to work.
• How are you telling 3DSMax/BAT4Max to use your custom textures for import, rather than the ones from the render?
• There is a method, but it's a workaround, this will NOT happen by default in any way. If you are just clicking OK, the textures being inserted into the SC4Model file are not the ones you think are being imported.

I realise some of this is complex, but it's really important to understand how you are doing this before proceeding.

1 hour ago, gutterclub said:

3) Someone skilled in writing programming or script create a tool that takes 4 rendered images and does the work for you and inserts them into an empty SC4 file?

Not impossible, but much more daunting than it might seem. Frankly, are there that many models where we have all 4 rotations to work with? Seems like a lot of work for not enough payoff. Frankly, anyone with the skills to do this, would benefit the community much more by helping with this:

1 hour ago, matias93 said:

I remember having seen a thread on SC4D about making a replacement script for SC4BAT to make possible to export to SC4 from something different from Gmax or 3DSmax

Indeed, in that case the talk was about supporting Blender, since it's OpenSource, so we can be sure a given version of the application would always be available. Therefore the whole 3DS Max continual upgrade problem wouldn't apply, we could finally have a tool with some permanency other than SC4BAT. 

The only sticking point is finding someone with sufficient skills in Blender/Scripting to create the necessary scripts akin to BAT4Max, which would render images at the correct Zooms/Rotations. Everything else already exists and can be reused from the BAT4Max package. Frankly, I believe the best solution is to crowdsource the money to pay someone to do it. It's not a huge amount of work, but it is highly specialised. Since no active member seems to have the skills, offering a few hundred bucks would probably be sufficient to contract someone outside the community to do it.

1 hour ago, gutterclub said:

Matt is absolutely right, this method could have some real value in the future so I would put it out there for some else to try.

I humbly disagree. This method is simply too clunky, time consuming and requires too much in-depth knowledge of how to gain mass adoption. Again, referring to the thread on scripting in Blender, I found it very hard to get people to understand the technical side of all this. The reality is, we need at least a semi-automated system, akin to that SimFox made with BAT4Max, that's the only way it would get mass adoption from creators.

[matias93 7,535]

Just to be clear (because the curiosity is too much at this point), the method Cédric uses to add 'snow' could be repurposed for this, by using a dummy model of roughly the same shape as the original building?

Because if that can be done, it's not that hard to do. Indeed, it's easy enough that I think some of us less talented could use it to customise already existing buildings or to make "fair enough" versions of real buildings using photos or such. I, for one, would like to make lots of filler-level neoclassical and barroque buildings, but modelling them is too hard for me: if I could use simple shapes and photos the result won't look beautiful, but is good enough for a filler, don't you think?

[gutterclub 2,729]

On 11/14/2012 at 4:25 PM, Cockatoo said:

Excellent. Render the 3 LODs plus a box standing in for the building (same size as the LODs) out of Max as per normal. When you get to this message... stop! But do not close Max, leave it running.

 

 

Go to your output files directory and start editing the bitmap files. Use the original image with the grey background for this and chop/ resize as appropriate so it fits perfectly onto the boxes. Then do the same with the alphas using the black and white image I've given you.

 

After that, return to Max and complete the export. This should insert everything into your model. If you've done it all correctly, you should have a fully functioning SC4model. If not, you'll have to identify any problems and return to your output files to correct it. Obviously don't start from scratch if this happens (if probably will), copy your output files to another location and work on them separately before repeating the process.

 

If you want to do nightlights, this'll require some more complex work in Photoshop, but if you think you can manage that you should now have the knowledge to do it.

This...

Broken down

1. Create a box in Max as a standin for the building, roughly same size so the LODs would fit snugly over the Preview Render.

2. Create LODS from said box

3. Export LODS from MAx as 3DS file and import into GMAX/BAT tool.

4. Export LODS from GMAX creating the SC4model file required.

5. Select the target as the Sc4model file and being export process.

6. During this process output files for each zoom and orientation are created in gamepacks folder in Max install location.

7. It is after this when the output bitmaps for each zoom plus correspending alpha map AND the FSH files are created.

8. The next step if I just wanted to export a box into the Sc4model file (as if i was doing a normal BAT export in BAT4MAX) would be to select ok on the popup box highlighted by Cockatoo. It is here where we pause.

9. Using the Preview render image, which has been made into 20 bitmaps - Z5-Z1 for S,E,N,W and the alpha maps - replace all the bmp files in each output folder with the preview renders.

Essentially - if I hit Ok on the button to insert FSH files it adds those images of the rendered box. If I have carefully replaced them with different images, in this case Simfoxes apartments from the preview renders I had. It should insert those bmps into the FSH files.

Its actually not that hard a process and if someone found a way to autocreate output bmp and alphas from render images, that would do most of the work. It might even be a photoshop script or something.

NOW

The part I fall over is that rather than going through every single output .bmp file, I have tried just replacing a few. The expectation that when I insert the .bmps into the FSH files using BAT4MAX at least a couple of the output bmps I replaced would be inserted into the model.

LASTLY

When I tried this, it actually rendered that multi coloured box, which I think is a texture bug issue as I have recently reinstalled BAT4MAX and Max (infact everything). So if I fix that and use those output files it might actually work.

Hope that makes sense. It's a simple but tedious process. Most people are curiousto see a Preview render come to life, more than it being the answer to Max 2017 + issues...although sill a feasible workaround for that.

[gutterclub 2,729]

12 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Just to be clear (because the curiosity is too much at this point), the method Cédric uses to add 'snow' could be repurposed for this, by using a dummy model of roughly the same shape as the original building?

Because if that can be done, it's not that hard to do. Indeed, it's easy enough that I think some of us less talented could use it to customise already existing buildings or to make "fair enough" versions of real buildings using photos or such. I, for one, would like to make lots of filler-level neoclassical and barroque buildings, but modelling them is too hard for me: if I could use simple shapes and photos the result won't look beautiful, but is good enough for a filler, don't you think?

This was my original thinking, hence my first post discussed the use of GoFSH etc (tools i have zero knowledge on)

My example - Darknono already made an old version of the Woolworth building in Gmax, the SC4model file (and lot file) already exist. He left us with preview renders of an updated version, could that updated version easily be inserted into the old model.

You might only have a south view but hey, a South view with an updated version is better than a non updated version.

[rsc204 21,836]

3 minutes ago, gutterclub said:

The part I fall over is that rather than going through every single output .bmp file, I have tried just replacing a few. The expectation that when I insert the .bmps into the FSH files using BAT4MAX at least a couple of the output bmps I replaced would be inserted into the model.

OK, that's pretty much the workaround I was thinking of. But in which case, you should have an SC4Model file which contains at least some updated FSH files. It's that file I'd really like to see, because with your previous attachment, I couldn't build such a file to check things. Not to mention, I may not get the same results.
Again, I suspect because you are altering the default process, at some point it's messing up the ID of the FSH file upon import. If that doesn't match correctly with the S3D, then you get a coloured box (like a test texture).

[rsc204 21,836]

I'll keep this separate, since it goes off on a tangent, but I really wanted to expand on how GoFSH works. GoFSH won't help you create LODs, but it will save you the tedious processes of messing about with 3DS Max. GoFSH probably wasn't on anyone's radar years back, it certainly couldn't do everything it can now. Rivit made/coded everything, but we had a long period where we collaborated together.

One of the biggest problems with anything texture related in SC4, was the time it takes to simply get at the textures. Reimport them, converting from/to FSH/BMP (or other formats), all whilst ensuring the ID's remained correct. Say you spent 3 hours making/editing textures, but it took an hour to actually get to them and then make them game ready? GoFSH removes such barriers, it can handle almost anything you could need, freeing you up to simply utilise your time working on your textures.

So, for all the quotes below, the process would work much like this (following my linked video):

1. Using either the original SC4Model file (if you have one), or a dummy created in SC4BAT* (if you don't). Follow the first part of the video, to export all the images from this model, so you have a set of correctly ID'd textures. Trust me, this will save you more time than any other solution I know of.
   *Seriously, why mess around in 3DS Max, Export the LODs to SC4BAT then make them? Might as well do it in SC4BAT and skip a few steps.
2. The video then shows how to edit Alphas, skip this, instead do either:
   • Edit the BMP files you already have, by layering them over the textures GoFSH exported and saving them.
     (for example when you have preview renders you just need to convert to work with your dummy model)
   • Take the exported BMPs and edit them as desired then save the changes.
     (for example if you were adding snow or altering an existing model somehow)
3. The last part of the video, shows how to take your edited BMPs, convert them to FSH files, then pack them into a DAT file.
4. This DAT file should be used as an override, i.e. load after the original SC4Model file. This way it will work for quickly testing everything.
5. Once you have the desired results, you can either use DATPacker, to Pack and Overwrite the old/dummy textures with your updated ones. Or, if preferred, use Reader delete the FSH you don't need and Copy/Paste the new ones from the DAT.

Note: Steps 4&5 not covered in video.

4:45 of your life will not be wasted by seeing this in action, it should show exactly what I'm trying to explain here. It should also show you how much easier this process is to the method your are currently using.

40 minutes ago, gutterclub said:

My example - Darknono already made an old version of the Woolworth building in Gmax, the SC4model file (and lot file) already exist. He left us with preview renders of an updated version, could that updated version easily be inserted into the old model.

55 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Just to be clear (because the curiosity is too much at this point), the method Cédric uses to add 'snow' could be repurposed for this, by using a dummy model of roughly the same shape as the original building?

See above for the process. Caveats though, it's likely much more complex than you might think, although you've got the general gist of things. Seriously though, ask Cedric how long it took him to make those texture edits, I think you might be surprised at how long it takes to do well.

BUT, there is normally no need for a dummy model, you simply re-use the existing ones from the original. If you wanted unique variants, then you'd need to copy/re-ID the original files though, but you would not need to make them.

43 minutes ago, gutterclub said:

Its actually not that hard a process and if someone found a way to autocreate output bmp and alphas from render images, that would do most of the work. It might even be a photoshop script or something.

I'm not sure you can apply automation or a formula that will accurately handle the smaller MipMaps. As for automation the creation of Alphas, it would probably look pretty terrible, similar to simply using the Magic Wand to select the black part and cutting it out. Anything smarter than that would be a coding nightmare, anything's possible, but that's some seriously complex stuff if it has to decide where the edges are exactly.

But again, aside from the process of layering/resizing/editing, GoFSH can automate pretty much everything else for you. So at least your time can be dedicated to the textures themselves.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Awesome, I actually asked if this was possible in my first post haha 

Will give it a try.

[matias93 7,535]

Wow, I went for tea and biscuits, and look at what I found back: things getting done!

Now I want to see what goes out of this experiment, those apartments are too nice to be lost to history...

Edit: BTW, I re-read the thread and Cockatoo was right on something: this method won't give you a nightlighted version, which is a tiny but sad downside. On the other hand, I've seen some CJers, specifically @korver, photoshopping 3D warehouse models with spectacular nightlights, so maybe some cooperation there could bring nice results? I'm crossing my fingers now

[gutterclub 2,729]

Understand the concept now, but it sure is fiddly and this was just a few mins of seeing if I could get something in. If we were to do it this way I imagine it would only work best in Z4 to Z1..bear in mind I am awful with Photoshop so have no doubt someone more skilled could easily do it using the above method.

If there were some scripts or triggers in whatever tool that could simply take a rendered image and insert into SC4model it would make any exporting issues woth Max 2017 redundant. Would also allow, if a camera and lighting rig could be configured the same as BAT4MAX people to create buildings in any modeling tool.

Thanks again

[matias93 7,535]

It looks fine for a first try, I guess the main issue is with the alpha cutting and the level of 'dumminess' of the model. In the example, maybe three blocks would work better than just one, as the LOD could then match the backyard negative space better.

If you omit the borders, it looks just as the original model, and that's good enough for fillers, which is a great start.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Slowly getting to grips with this, managed to get an alternate render of one of Simfoxes Towers (he only had 1 view of it) over the top of his old one, but that was very very easy as the alphas etc already line up, so its a like for like replacement.

Now, being awful with photoshop - I have a question and hope I can word this correctly and excuse the lack of technical jargon.

During the FSH process, Z5 views are split up into chunks. This makes the replacing of images a lot trickier, in terms of lining things up so it is seamless. So..

Question 1: Is there a way to simply 'sew' these Z5 i(and Z4 where its split) into 1 image. Replace the Preview Render over the top, then split it back down into sections as it originally was?

Question 2: If this is possible, would it then not be simple to just transform the images into alphas? Is there a way to do this so that the Grey area becomes black and rest is white - this would ensure the antiliasing from the alpha maps are identical to the Preview Rendered image.

I think with my skillset I can have a bit of fun with this for personal use and have show that a previewed image can easily but inserted or turned into a BAT. Would love to see someone else have a go at this. 

In terms of square and round towers like this, Im thinking it wouldnt matter if you only had say x2 views (or even one view) for the sake of fun, you could easily make all 4 sides the same and it would look fine in game (albeit only ever get to see 1 side)

FYI - I have heaps of Preview Renders I have collected from over the years, most which are now no longer visible in peoples old BAT threads. The Necromancer indeed haha! If anyone wants them happy to zip them up and post them.

[matias93 7,535]

1. I know there is a method to do this inside photoshop, but when I do mosaics for the forum's threads, I use this thing:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/computational-photography-applications/image-composite-editor/

2. I guess you could make a copy of the layer, use the wand function to select the gray background, invert the selection and then erase everything that is selected, so only the gray background is left, which can be simply filled and used as an alpha. I guess this won't work perfectly, but anything else would require to check the image borders manually, and that's a lot of extra time.

[art128 4,618]

As Matias said for number 2, the only way to do this i can think off is to use the wand tool to select the grey area (play around with the tolerance % so that you don't select chunks of the building PS might think is the background too. )

 

(And I might be interested in those preview renders as a zip file.. )

[rivit 3,391]

Since BAT4MAx makes larger images into 256x256 chunks at the largest size usually I find that its faster to line up the small (originals) images by hand in photoshop display,  along with the replacement image, then take blocks from the bigger image and copy, paste over the smaller blocks. If you set the grid to 256x256 then you can guarantee to take the right blocks first time.

Trying to do this by automation is more trouble than its worth because of the trying to keep ids right. A photoshop action could probably do it but each bat will probably be different in some way meaning by the time you've worked it out, you could have done it by hand.

~~~

You can transform images into alpha in photoshop. Take the background (grey) with select colour range with tolerance 0, making sure to not select any part of the image you wish to keep (which might be the same grey), then filling with black. Reverse selection and fill with white. Save accordingly.  After making separate colors and alphas you can then make FSH, but you need IDs. 

If you have originals, you only need to check if the original alphas are a good fit which is probably less work overall.

[Jasoncw 11,933]

There's an alternative way of doing this, which has some advantages, and some disadvantages. The main advantage is that it's easier. The main disadvantage is that the zoom 5 image quality might not be as sharp (or maybe it would be fine, I'm not sure), and some color shifting which you'd have to adjust for.

So, first, go into 3ds Max, and create a big plane in any viewport. Then, use the BAT4Max buttons to get into one of the zoom 5 views. Then, with your plane selected, go to Tools>Align>Align to View. This tool will align the plane to your view, which in this case is the camera view. Then, you can make a material (reflection and glossiness of 0) with a preview render in it, apply it to the plane, and give the plane a planar uvw map. In the uvw map there's an option called "bitmap fit" which will make the proportions of your uvw map match those of a provided image (so use the same preview render image). After that you need to scale the uvw map (by selecting the uvw map gizmo and using the scale tool) until the preview render is the right scale.

If you do this for each rotation, you'll be able to export each rotation separately and then in the reader you can take the correctly aligned rotation's FSHs from each export and put them into one .SC4Model file. The end result is that you should have all zooms and rotations automatically done for you. So you'd first export the .SC4Model once, to get the original version of it. Then make a backup of the file for safe keeping. And then 4 more copies, one for each rotation. Then after exporting each rotation separately into separate copies of the .SC4Model file, you would open the original .SC4Model file in the reader, delete all of the .FSH, and then go through each of the additional .SC4Model files and copy and paste the .FSH containing the correctly aligned renders into the original .SC4Model file.

 

Because this plane is just an object in your scene it'll receive lighting from the lighting rig. I can't figure out how to avoid this, but to compensate you can just color correct it until it's close to the original.

In the material editor, for the bitmaps there's an area labeled "offset". This will let you reposition the preview render on the plane without having to move the plane or change the uvw map. To help you align the preview renders across all rotations, you can model a simpler version, for example, modeling a plane that perfectly matches the footprint. Then you can center the modeled footprint into the center of the scene, and then align all of the preview render planes to match that, so everything will be properly centered and consistent between the rotations.

To get the transparency, you'd make an alpha map in photoshop and then put it in the cutout slot of the arch & design material.

 

I hope that all makes sense. I can try to clarify if it doesn't.

[gutterclub 2,729]

So Zoom 5 definitely loses sharpness, not sure why..but this is a perfectly feasible way to create some additional content from Preview Renders. Note - I didn't carry out any colour correction here.

You could also use both methods if you wanted to smarted up the Zoom 5 and carry out the GoFsh and replacethose Z5 bmps and reinsert them.

Thanks so much guys, you are all wonderful.