Reddonquixote's BAT thread

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks guys, I'm finding this very helpful. Unfortunately I'm busy tonight, otherwise I'd like to try prototyping some of these ideas.. the four day weekend is nearly here though

 

You don't even need to make two versions because if they want it to be a terminal station without a subway station then they can simply not connect the subway part. 

That's true, I guess where I was coming from (depending on how 'behemoth' it ends up lol) I'm imagining not everyone is going to want to do excavation and commit 18x6 squares of game real estate to one BAT, a more compact, easily-plopped version would make it more accessible to more people. Valid point though! As Jack suggested, if done intelligently, might be able to satisfy both ways with one version.

 

Scotty, thanks, of course its probably painfully obvious to everyone else, but searching the STEX (and LEX) for other examples how people have done this is a great idea!

 

Twrecks - brilliant suggestion. Suggestions plural in fact. I will prototype these and see which works. I had read of large lots being crime magnets, although I thought there would be a modification you could add that reduces crime sufficiently to counter the effect... potentially could I add a police kiosk prop into the lot.. something like that? Might research that...

 

Yoshi, I hadn't even considered capacity. Thanks for the save, I would have ended up with something completely inappropriate otherwise. Interesting point about over-capacity doesn't hurt.. maybe it just makes a difference in our heads.. it seems more realistic if it has capacity based on IRL? As Jason suggested, benchmarking off other lots and the maxis lots is a very sensible idea.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Yes, I wouldn't go by real-life figures because the building is not for real life, either.

 

Whether trains go through this station IRL or all services stop there is also a question that does not bear too much relevance for SimCIty IMO. I always regard the traffic paths as the way taken by the Sims, not as a representation of your public transport network. For example, if  a Sim hops on the bus at the station right in his block and goes non-stop to the station in the industrial area, I'd never think "gee, that's totally unrealistic because there would be more stops inbetween". What I think is "Well, he gets on the bus and doesn't get off before he has reached his destination". We know that there are no actual bus or train lines in SC4. Each "bus" and "train" is actually nothing but a number of commuters converted to a different transportation type, and it is your imagination and only your imagination that sees "lines" and "services". It's a nice imagination, of course, but I don't think the illusion will be spoiled depending on whether "train" does or doesn't stop at a particular station.

 

As for crime, the problem is related to the minuscule effect radii of police dispatches. Basically the SimCops have eaten so many donuts that they can only chase a bad guy for a few metres before they give up and go back to their car. This means that criminals can hide in the centre of larger lots without ever being caught. There's a fix out there that changes the dispatch effect radius of all Maxis PDs, but I still find large lots to be overly susceptible to crime, even if the patch apparently puts your SimOfficers on a diet so that they catch the bad guys at least.

[DamienMB 58]

I was recently trying to figure out how Flinders and Southern Cross could be done in Sim City 4 so this is quite interesting. I figured either sunken rail and tunnels or a ground rail to underground rail/subway transition, both would keep the streets and buildings level.
 

(5) Represents a secondary subway branch heading off to Melbourne Central

Are you forgetting about Parliament Station? Here's a diagram of the loop:



There is a ground rail to underground rail/subway transition on the other side of Federation Square. You can see it on Google Maps here: http://goo.gl/maps/iPuE2

Therefore you don't have to worry about the loop when designing Flinders, just how you get the rail under Swanston and Federation Square.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Oh, yes...correct... I was thinking Melbourne Central, but quite right its Parliament first.. I didn't realise the subway transition was on the other side of Fed square though, I just assumed it joined the loop at Flinders. (To be honest, I haven't been on the train in 12 years and only a handful of times before that!). Not sure it really changes the design though...

 

My preferred option at the moment would be to use subway transitions to pass it under Fed Square rather than tunnels - that's because the river is right there the ground elevation can't be too high or there's going to be cliffs on the side of the Yarra, but if the elevation isn't high enough obviously trying to sink anything ends up below the water table. - point being, if I do end up using Subway transtions then I would just connect the loop at Flinders, otherwise its exiting the ground only to go straight back under again.

 

Keep in touch though, I'd appreciate your advice on this. I'm still experimenting and hopefully have some workable prototypes later today

[ScottFTL 29]

And also, from my understanding, even though the UI makes it seem like they do, nothing bad actually happens when transit stations are over capacity.  iirc anyway

 

Nothing bad happens until the station is 400% over capacity, then it stops working altogether.  There is a deeper explanation of the capacity problem by the NAM's traffic simulator guru here:

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=12522.0

 

The station looks amazing already.  This will be an amazing addition to the game! 

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks!

 

Here's how I think it can work.. (remembering its a prototype).. Firstly, does anyone know if the NAM has a Ground Rail-to-Subway transition? I could only find for Trams... I had to download one from the STEX in the end, which I've used for illustration purposes only.. obviously they are too big for this model. I will probably have to build something more suitable and transit enable it?

 

The first picture shows how the model will be broken up. At 1, its a 15x1 lot piece, which I created as a Passenger Rail Station. At 2, is a 3x6 lot with an overhanging prop (The three domes is the section where the model I made already goes). No. 3 is showing how there is an overhang, this is where I will hide the subway transitions.

 

 

The next three pictures shows how it all hangs together. Basically, the Ground Rail Connects to the Subway transition, passes under Fed square, and comes out the other side. One subway branches off into the loop.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is quite a simple solution.. doesn't require any complex excavation and it can be used in game as a smaller one piece or the whole complex. what do you think?

 

(Mind you I haven't actually tested in a populated city whether it actually works or not yet!)

[dubaidude303 1,119]

Looking good

[RepublicMaster 428]

You don't have to recreate the station exactly, so if it ended in a terminus that would be fine. That setup looks like it could work but you could model in the transitions because those look odd at the moment. 

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

It works

 

[Darknono35 3,137]

Great! You've done your transitions, and it work

I think this station will become one of the most gorgeous for the game I'm sure !!
 

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

What do I think? I honestly think you have outdone yourself.

Also you could model your own tunnel entrances at the Jolimont Yard/Fed Square as a companion piece.

Also I do like this setup, but the capacity on the rail track worries me a little. Can one double track railway handle the stations worth of traffic? Because the way I see it, is the other 8 tracks are eyecandy and technically not touching the station.

The ground setup however still looks like it logically continues under yet is still easy to place and usable. Well done.

[dubaidude303 1,119]

Wow!! 

[libellibicus 396]

Holy Cow, BATman!  This project is epic.  Excellence all round.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Also you could model your own tunnel entrances at the Jolimont Yard/Fed Square as a companion piece.

Also I do like this setup, but the capacity on the rail track worries me a little. Can one double track railway handle the stations worth of traffic? Because the way I see it, is the other 8 tracks are eyecandy and technically not touching the station.

 

 

1) Yes, I thought that too, ideally the ones that come with the NAM are perfect, optically, because they look like they sit under the road and would exit the Russell Street overpass nicely. The problem is, as far as I can tell they were only made for trams. I modified one for rail, which worked, but not sure that's allowed in terms of redistribution, the ground texture is wrong anyway, and I haven't had any success yet replicating my own transit switches yet. Definitely will need help with this...

2) Yeah, that's a bit strange... the long piece, being created as a passenger station with a track running alongside it works well, the other piece though, I hadn't clicked on it in the picture, but the far track with the train actually on it does work, but its the only one. The three in the middle don't work at all. Just need to keep experimenting, I will get the right configuration eventually

 

EDIT: Yay.. I've got the transit switches successfully converting ground rail to subway, the only issue now is they have no-car zots on the ones not touching the road. If I can solve that then it's good to go

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

This is the new set-up:

 

The white squares are basically subway stations that have been transit enabled so they allow ground rail to enter them one side and subway exits on the other side. I have placed 3 against the 6x3 lot, which is now also a passenger station (the picture doesn't have the overhanging prop obviously), and other two with rail touching, that way it will provide the illusion of being both passenger and subway station. This is the setup I am using, but in fact you could use or not use subways in whatever configuration, or number, you wish.

 

I'm pretty sure all the tracks should work, the only reason why they wouldn't use the middle tracks is because its inefficient. As mentioned above, I just have to solve for no-car zots on the two inner subway lots. Oh, the other weird thing is pedestrians crossing the tracks... not sure why they are doing that!

 

 

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Holy Cow, BATman! This project is epic. Excellence all round.

Holy cow, Batman Ave?

(sorry that's a little joke; there is a Batman Ave. about 2 block away from the station)

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

LOL @ Yoshi

 

Update: I found a post that said to remove the zots you delete any jobs. I did that, seems to have worked

[dubaidude303 1,119]

Looking great!

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Here's an update- a close up of the clock tower and a view of what the long piece looks like in-game.

 

 

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Sweet monkey Jesus, I will never be able to go to the city again without marvelling at this masterpiece.

[Darknono35 3,137]

Powerful BAT

A lot of details recreated here, it's gorgeous !! keep it up

[libellibicus 396]

This just oozes quality. Stupendous stuff.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks guys!

 

Now I've had some time to reflect, some things to fix up...

 

1) I shrunk the model down to squeeze onto 15 tile length, but ts looking noticeably under-scaled. I haven't worked out the join with the other lot yet, but I have a feeling that end piece isn't actually going to be attached to this lot so that will free up a couple of tiles at that end. I also didn't scale up 133% yet, that should help. Also, I'm not certain that the 2nd lot will actually need to be 3 tiles deep, it might only be 2, so again more room to scale up without increasing overall lot size.

2) On the clock tower, the thicker section above the clock face I think is too wide. I need to bring that in a bit. And the spire on top is too thin it disappears in the game model. 

3) I ran out of steam after doing the clock tower to do the little tower on the end properly. I will fix that next.

4) Those mini-domes that appear periodically along the rooftop got squashed when I shrunk the model. That's a good thing though, they aren't supposed to span the entire roof width so I can re-square them and they will stop where they are supposed to. While on the roof, the air con fan units are over scaled, and the roof needs more stuff on it in general.

 

If you can think of anything else please let me know

[Delecto 941]

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

This become even more outstanding than it actually was!

[dubaidude303 1,119]

Mercy!!!! It's amazing!!!!   

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

 The scale has been bothering me... here's a more realistic scale. Unfortunately, because of the angle of the entrance its always going to be in darkness

 

 

[Bocca013 1]

I don't know if you could do this but one thing I would like to see is the Grand Prix Circuit around Albert Park, or just build Albert Park as I love Formula 1 and I'm a fan of the Grand Prix. Another project that could be possible is the Sports Complex

(Alas: MCG, AAMI Park, Rod Laver Arena etc...)

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

I just had an idea... you said this was going to be a 3 part station? Could you make one of the lots have police function, as there is a police kiosk built into the building.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Bocca, I had an idea of doing AP lake as well, but not with the GP lol, just the regular lake. The entire Sports complex? Hahaha... That would be like a years worth of modelling. Maybe some of it ...over time Thanks for the suggestions!

Yoshi... Not sure why it would need police kiosk for anymore? (other than that it has one in RL) I think when we were considering the lot might be really huge it was necessary, but this setup doesn't have huge lots anymore. Unless the length of the lot is also going to create a crime magnet?