School Attendance Drops...

[brunst 0]

Hi there,

Would anyone happen to know why all my elementary schools attendance in my larger cities drops? Every time I have a city that reaches 300k + citizens, all of a sudden all of elementary schools drop to around 200-300 students each and all of sudden when I query residential buildings across town, the education indicator goes to medium. All the funding is appropriate and not below the minimum school funding and there is adequate coverage as well as high schools, college, libraries, etc.

Has anyone seen this before? It drives me nuts.

I'm running on a Mac if that makes any difference to this issue.

Many thanks to the community.

[Meg 368]

What does the age graph look like? How many kids are there compared to older folks?

[people of NYC 19]

or just ordinance that "pro reading campaign" or maybe you have more that school

[husher 18]

I've found that too, but as with any eco system the population number will fluctuate as the birth rate rises and falls when balanced against available space and resorces.

A population ages as time progresses, local conditions can lead to rises and falls in the population demographics; for instance take sub sarharan africa as a model; there is less arable land that can be cultivated so there is problem of too many mouths and not enough food to go around so the population should fall to balance this but local conditions seem fly against this logical progression as the population continue to breed out of control thus exasabating the problem.

Obviously the mathameticans that designed the algorithams that govern the population levels in sim city have taken this into acccount and so how you set your city up will dictate how the population evolves.

Just check your schools every game year and adjust the numbers of teachers to suit the number of pupils i usally use 1 teacher to every 15-20 pupils it works for me and my EQ figures are regulary above 120-160.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

What does the age graph look like? How many kids are there compared to older folks?

This is the right of it. Your Sims don't go to school after they get their degrees. I tend to close schools (bulldozer) when the enrollment drops to single digits. Look at your average age display around that area, and it will probably be shades of blue. Put in a park, a recreation building, a library, a museum, or even zone it commercial.

You must keep a flow of young Sims coming into your city, either by zoning for cheap high-rises in not very nice neighborhoods with dirty industry, or some other means. Schools are, of course, necessary where the average age shows light green.

And then, of course, there are urban renewal projects. Did you ever wish you had a highway though that neighborhood. Go ahead, expropriate the properties (dezoning tool (v)) and put it in. Then build a new neighborhood adjacent to the highway with relevant structures. This is part of the life an any city. City planners will tell you that tough decisions like this will be needed to keep the city from fading out.

Do not be seduced by some neighborhood you happen to rather like. Stiff upper lip, and all that.

[Darkwings 5]

There's also self-renewal.

It's worth noting that, unlike real people who live just to go from home to work, buying stuff while passing though a commercial area, Sims do actually breed. Ha.

[coolwiththecool2 827]

I may not be 100% accurate but I believe that this is connected to the cities whole aging thingy (sorry for the word thingy). Because one of my schools had an attendance of 1278, then a few sim city years later my city had more "older people" than it did before, and when I saw this that same school dropped to around 400 something, and the cities "younger" population also dropped, but this is just a hypothesis after all....

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In your displays there is one called population by average age. Blue areas need museums not schools.

[AprilDawn 2]

It's interesting, finding out what works and what doesn't work. I have found myself putting in the Large Elementary and High Schools and Libraries, and while having all residential areas covered by those three things, certain areas will stay in the red for the longest time. I think though, what my problem is, is that I really need to spend more time working out the quirks of the game and stuff.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Dropping in a school has no immediate effect. Sims have to be educated in the normal way through the use of schools. A sim will be 17 or 18 Sim-years old to graduate from high school. Large schools are only justified if there is enough students to fill them. The whole process is quite slow.

[Darkwings 5]

I have found myself putting in the Large Elementary and High Schools and Libraries, and while having all residential areas covered by those three things, certain areas will stay in the red for the longest time. I think though, what my problem is, is that I really need to spend more time working out the quirks of the game and stuff.

As already stated, each building serves ONE purpose: elementary school is for little kids, high school is for teens, university/college is for young adults.

After that, libraries avoid sims who attended any type of school from LOSING education level over time.

That means that a sim that didn't have a decent EQ will have no use of a library.

Museums are used by middle aged and older sims the most.

So, a zone that is full blue (old sims) on your data view will have no advantage from an Elementary School.

Also, each year sims population will renew a bit: school attendance is per-year.

Do not be seduced by some neighborhood you happen to rather like. Stiff upper lip, and all that.

Collateral effect of this: if you bulldoze some buildings, when new buildings grow on that place new Sims will be 'born' and they will be all young.

If you bulldoze a block of R every 30-35 years, you'll have a permanent 'youth block' in your city that will keep your city's EQ high (pushing IHT demand)

Just avoid bulldozing them all at the same time because kids don't work, so you need them to grow to have workforce.

Older sims are best useful if they're not poor: museum, major art museum and opera house all target the same range of age.

So, if you have a lot of older poor $ Sims consider bulldozing their houses. They're not working, not spending much and not giving you a sensible advantage.

Nothing personal, it's a game.

[dazza262 133]

So, if you have a lot of older poor $ Sims consider bulldozing their houses. They're not working, not spending much and not giving you a sensible advantage.

Nothing personal, it's a game.

You're not a Conservative politician by any chance are you ?

  Edited July 6, 2012 by dazza262  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

So, if you have a lot of older poor $ Sims consider bulldozing their houses. They're not working, not spending much and not giving you a sensible advantage.

Nothing personal, it's a game.

You're not a Conservative politician by any chance are you ?

Rather a skewed view of Conservative. You must live in the U.K.

However, urban renewal is part of the life of any city. Choosing people by ages is rather tricky. How do you know if they are R$ en mass? Usually doesn't happen in the game unless you have one of the finicky demand mods loaded.

[Darkwings 5]

Usually I build at least 2 different neighborhoods, one designed for wealthy R and one way less so.

The bad one has houses next to the main avenue, no space between buildings, only the minimum services etc.

That pretty much ensure that even if some R$$$ will end up living there, they won't be so many to be a worry on the monthly income.

The good one has parks, trees, better police coverage, private schools, university, country club and statues.

Then each time I need to increase a clinic capacity (that means the population reached a new stable higher number), I check schools, libraries and museums.

If schools are too empty, I bulldoze 3-4 4x4 blocks of nearby old sims (medium density).

If that's not enough and I want a higher EQ faster, I bulldoze more.

After reaching 150 EQ the IHT demand should go up and school attendance is not a problem anymore because almost all ages have the same EQ.

  Edited July 7, 2012 by Darkwings  

[husher 18]

well, heres a can of worms going on here!, education has always been a hot topic down the years; i'm English and a Conservative-and i can tell you about the mess made of scocalist (Labour) education policies- a national cirriculum that did nothing to prepare children for work rather a life on the dole,so called 'trendy' education that had no real world relavance and carreers tutors that were a complete waste of space not to mention teachers always going on strike and sending the wrong message to the pupils.

I've been around long enough to know that all the qualifications in the world wont get you that most coveted of prizes: a job, i'm knocking on 50 and i know i've seen my last job- i might as well retire as no one will employ me at this age despite a list of quals as long as my arm.

Sim city is lucky, the sims get everthing they need- to some it may seem the perfect world but it is only a game and thankfully there are no labour unions to ruin things.

Its always amusing to see the young one suddenly realising that society dosent care about the old folks!, once you get over 60 no one cares; you might say the old are expendable, their contribution to society is spent and they dont matter any more.

Try reading Audux huxly's book 'brave new world' or watch the film 'metropolis' or 'logans run' and see how the old are treated.

Enjoy being young, i wish i could do it again; so many mistakes.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The truth of all of this is one simple principle: Balance. Remember its a game that runs as a fairly serious simulation. The simulation algorithm overall wants the city tiles to be balanced as to RCI. Any micromanagement you do should not disrupt this.

Stomping through neighbourhoods is usually not productive in the long run. What I do with non-productive schools is replace them with other things that is more in-line with the population. If the schools in an area have aged out, I replace them with libraries, museums, and other cultural buildings. Population is cyclic is you wait long enough, you'll be putting down new schools in the old neighbourhoods.

Health service points are somewhat moot. I have several custom ones, just as I have several custom schools, fire stations, police stations, etc. Two things that will break a budget are school busing and ambulances. For the former, if you have good transit in your city, set it to zero. For the latter, control the overlap very carefully.

Also, leave the budgets for fire and police at default. Monkeying with these usually results in stupid firemen and keystone cops. This can be amusing, but while you are being entertained your city can burn down.

Now, of course school attendance drops. An elementary school only applies up the age of about 13 or 14. When there are no more, or few, kids of elementary school age, it is time to replace the school, not the neighbourhood unless there is some nearby empty land.

My orientation in the game these days is to profit. I don't much care what the city looks like, within reason. I try to keep the ID out of the city after the first four years, and I like shore lines. My cities just grow like topsy. There are industrial pods, sometimes away from the rest, but usually associated with the shipping port. While I have CBD's these are often backed by Residential neighbourhoods, and in heavy residential pods, I have a few commercial lots as corner stores and strip malls. Outlying 'burbs get shopping centres.

Look around you at RL cities, and do what comes naturally.

[vortext 573]

Erm . . not to be rude or anything but the educational system in SC4 is not that intricated, let alone age-related. The difference between elementary, high school, college and university is the level of education that is achieved. With only an elementary school in place, EQ will level out at 40, add a highschool and it will rise to 80, etc. So if you want highly educated sims, just plop a university from the get-go.

It is true attendance drops over time. However this happens when said EQ level has been reached and there's no influx of new and uneducated sims in the district. Age has nothing to with this, at all. When new sims move in, the EQ level will drop and attendance will rise again.

On a side-note, with the Reader the education level for new sims can easily be set to a different value than zero as is the default. I've done this on a number of occasions. Some may consider this cheating but imho it's more realistic if a high-tech, high-wealth area attracts well educated folks.

  Edited July 7, 2012 by vortext  

[Darkwings 5]

Erm . . not to be rude or anything but the educational system in SC4 is not that intricated, let alone age-related.

Easy test: go into the game without any 'cheating', place ONLY an elementary school, wait a few years and see for yourself.

The ranges 1-10 and 11-20 will have the highest EQ (a tiny bit more than 40) while older sims will have less, to the really elderly ones that will have something like 25.

Bulldoze them, new sims will move in. They'll attend school immediately. Town EQ level will go up.

If you are playing with a lot of money from the start, using cheats or other mods to change your gameplay it's one thing, but usually you can't afford to plop each type of school, let alone University, from the start.

  Edited July 7, 2012 by Darkwings  

[vortext 573]

Well yes, maybe I shouldn't have stated it in such absolute terms. It's true EQ level is spread out over age cohorts. This is specified in the School Effectiveness vs. Average Age property.

What I meant was, attendance will drop because a given EQ level has been reached, not because of an aging population.

That said, I'm tinkering with this at the moment (hence I reacted somewhat strongly) and trying to get a grip on things so there might be some interplay. After all it's School Effectiveness vs. Average Age, right?!

  Edited July 7, 2012 by vortext  

[Darkwings 5]

Look: since older sims can have a lower EQ than younger sims, even if them all attended the same type (the only type, in the test above), that means that those old guys are lowering your average EQ. It's as clear as it could be, right?

Libraries and Museums exist to cover that specific base. But they do cost money.

Even if you get new sims, and their EQ is 40 from the start, you will still have those old guys with 25-30 around. Since they could take quite a bit of years before reaching the great beyond... Getting rid of them AND getting new ones (smarter ones) will instantly improve the EQ, without increasing the monthly cost (houses will grow instantly back) and without waiting half an hour on cheetah.

Or 2 hours if your sims can live up to 100 years...

Changing the school level costs money, changing the average age way less so, especially if you have a lot of R demand (instant regrowth).

If you can prove this to be wrong please do, any better strategy is welcome, but this is what I'm seeing in the game.

  Edited July 7, 2012 by Darkwings