Jwong BAT Development

[jwong 13]

Okay, so after my first BAT didn't go down too well, I thought I'd open a personal BAT thread for improvement.

Ok, so first of all here's a Commercial Office I've been working on:

Not really liking the entrance foyer wall, any ideas about what I could do there (unless you think it's ok)?

  Edited August 28, 2011 by jwong  

[nick13 194]

What program are you using? 3ds max, gmax, or sketch up?

[SimFox 800]

well here my two cents about things you may take a second look to make your model better...

1. 
   
   
2. roof Junk. Current layout is a bit senseless/artificial - placement of AC units off routing of the pipes...
   
3. strange relative height and placement of "door" and "windows" in that foyer.
   
4. "texture" of ground floor doesn't look at all in harmony with the rest of the building and also the size of the pattern is confusing in terms of scaling cues.
   
5. inter-floor space may be bigger. Right now you have floor to ceiling windows. But that "ceiling" doesn't appear to hold any space for all sort of communications it normally have in office buildings. Of course it is a relative concept, and there are building with glazing that hides it, but this particular doesn't seem to be one of those.
   
6. windows width is way to big for a single sheet of glass. You may see something like at ground level shopping display sort of windows; but not at the upper floors - it is hugely expensive and unpractical.
   

Still I have to say that you made quite a respectable job for your second bat!

Best of luck with your projects!

[jwong 13]

@Nick13:

I am currently using Sketchup in conjunction with gmax to create this model. It can be a bit of pain to convert from one to another when making modifications though.

@SimFox:

Thank you for taking some time for the feedback.

On your first point however I must say I am most ignorant of the particular placement of roof junk, and (as you so correctly put it) the objects WERE placed randomly and senselessly. I wondered if you would be able to expand on this issue?

Also on your third point, perhaps if I change the brick texture to the same beige texture already present on some parts of the building?

Lastly, the other points you made has indeed enlightened me on aspects of the building I failed to think over and I will address them in the next revision.

Thanks again,

Jw

  Edited August 28, 2011 by jwong  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Concerning your roof junk problem, it might help to take a stroll in Google Earth (or bing maps) and take a look at the rooftops of medium-sized office buildings in real life. This might show you some common arrangements that you could copy; or you just pick one arrangement that you like. This way, even if you still don't know the technical aspects behind it all, you're at least copying from someone who did.

[IDS2 3,344]

If you can't tell what something on a roof is, I'd check this out. It's helped me out quite a bit!

[jwong 13]

If you can't tell what something on a roof is, I'd check this out. It's helped me out quite a bit!

Thank you, this thread is very helpful.

So an update on the building with the suggested amendments:

  Edited August 30, 2011 by jwong  

[SimFox 800]

Great to see you really working on your creation.

Well if you can still stand it I do have few more points I think you may want to take another look at:

1. 
   
   
2. this place does look odd - cars would go in and... disappear/teleport? there isn't really enough space for them to go anywhere on the other side.
   
3. there is both esthetics and practical inconsistency here. Both the bend and the type of windows really doesn't go with what above it. If it would be reversed it would look more appropriate. Generally I would suggest to actually put the ground floor win line with the rest of the building and let part of the building extrude beyond it supported by columns. This way it would open sidewalk space and provide overhang above the entrance. overhang that would generate rental income.
   On the top of the building curved line really comes out of blue and clashes with huge flat empty wall. Wall one may thing of being flash with other building, but if so what's the point of decor on the roof?
   
4. this booth is really out of place in such settings
   
5. these large expanses of dead wall look "unfinished", like you simply don't know what to put there rather then like it is somehow justified.
   
6. roof look paper thin.
   
7. these look like boxes rather then strictures.
   

These are my 2 ct.

But you have to remember that it is your model after all...

[jwong 13]

Great to see you really working on your creation.

Well if you can still stand it I do have few more points I think you may want to take another look at:

...

1. 
   
   
2. this place does look odd - cars would go in and... disappear/teleport? there isn't really enough space for them to go anywhere on the other side.
   
3. there is both esthetics and practical inconsistency here. Both the bend and the type of windows really doesn't go with what above it. If it would be reversed it would look more appropriate. Generally I would suggest to actually put the ground floor win line with the rest of the building and let part of the building extrude beyond it supported by columns. This way it would open sidewalk space and provide overhang above the entrance. overhang that would generate rental income.
   On the top of the building curved line really comes out of blue and clashes with huge flat empty wall. Wall one may thing of being flash with other building, but if so what's the point of decor on the roof?
   
4. this booth is really out of place in such settings
   
5. these large expanses of dead wall look "unfinished", like you simply don't know what to put there rather then like it is somehow justified.
   
6. roof look paper thin.
   
7. these look like boxes rather then strictures.
   

These are my 2 ct.

But you have to remember that it is your model after all...

wow that bad huh?

well, for your first point, it is supposed to be an entrance to an underground parking lot and such the booth is supposed to be the control booth for this.

I guess I'll get started in rectifying these problems. Thank you for pointing these things out; as you can most certainly see, I'm no architect, or a BAT-er for that matter.

  Edited August 31, 2011 by jwong  

[Alex_Bervoets 91]

wow that bad huh?

Trust me... for a Simfox comment... you're doing just fine!

The Bat is already looking good but it needs some major work: what bothers me the most is the plain textured walls (number 4)and the large boxes on the roof (Nr 6). Take a look at some real buildings to see what's missing...

Just folow the comments and it will look great. Remember all the things you've learned and you'll improve with every BAT!

Good luck

  Edited August 31, 2011 by Alex_Bervoets  

[harishna 847]

Jwong given that you say that you are not a 3d modeler or architect (I am not one of those either) starting with something from real life saves you all the hassle of making congruent composition, and focus only in developing your modeling skills, furthermore this approach helps you develop your observation skills.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

wow that bad huh?

Trust me... for a Simfox comment... you're doing just fine!

Hahaha, true.

Seriously, you're really doing fine! As you said, you are in no way architecturally trained, you are not very experienced with the BAT, and you are getting feedback from a person who knows a lot of these things AND doesn't do the "American-style critique sandwich"¹, but gets straight to the point.

___________________

¹: One layer of praise on top, then one layer of creamy hints like "I totally love the square you drew, but I think it might be even slightly better if you took away the fifth and sixth corner - just a suggestion, though", and another layer of praise as the bottom line. The (particularly Central and Northern) European equivalent of this would be the critique meatball: "Dude, that's not a square, it's a hexagon".

Disclaimer: Yes, this was exaggerated. No, this was not totally serious.

[SimFox 800]

wow that bad huh?

well, for your first point, it is supposed to be an entrance to an underground parking lot and such the booth is supposed to be the control booth for this.

I guess I'll get started in rectifying these problems. Thank you for pointing these things out; as you can most certainly see, I'm no architect, or a BAT-er for that matter.

Not at all!

Actually quite good, and that is the only reason I've started commenting here. I see great potential, and signs of a mature attitude. And that is the whole reason I started and continue commenting here. Don't get you panties in a twist over it! These things will come to you. You had shown enough for me to make that statement...

wow that bad huh?

Trust me... for a Simfox comment... you're doing just fine!

The Bat is already looking good but it needs some major work: what bothers me the most is the plain textured walls (number 4)and the large boxes on the roof (Nr 6). Take a look at some real buildings to see what's missing...

Just folow the comments and it will look great. Remember all the things you've learned and you'll improve with every BAT!

Good luck

I would just try to stick "to" in-between "simfox" and "comment"... and that would be about right...

But seriously making your own designs is a tricky and demanding undertaking! But common sense and basic practicality of you creation would be a great guiding force!

Again, you're doing just fine!!!

[jwong 13]

thank you for the encouragement guys for my next project I think I will do a real-life building to get my modelling skills up to scratch.

So here is another update to the office:

Some things remain unchanged from the previous version:

I didn't change the bland texture on the ground floor simply because I "don't know what to put there ..."

The booth is still there as it helps show the parking entrance, but if it really is despised I can remove it.

The car entrance remains unchanged as it is an underground parking entrance. However I was thinking that an option is to make a surface parking area instead, which would make that back wall less bland and also there would be less need for the booth.

[madhatter106 3,903]

The thing that bugs me about the booth is that it's off to one side. I keep thinking of offices with parking booths like that, and often the booth is in the center, between where you drive in and where you drive out...that way, if there's a problem on either side, the attendant is accessible.

I think if you added lift gates/arms to both the entrance and exit, it would help to "sell" the idea that there's parking beneath. Think of when you first enter and roll down your window to swipe your card or hit the sensor, and the arm in front of you lifts up...that sort of thing...

The revisions to the shapes and the roofjunk are good. This latest version's roof is much nicer than the previous versions, and makes more sense.

[Delecto 941]

The problem here is that each floor window is the same! Perhaps you can move orizontaly the windows texture to give a difference on each floor. I don't know if you understand me properly, because my English is ugly!

Your walls textures are now cool but not so dirty, you have to dirty a little more... gives life to your walls

This latest roof's version is much nicer than the previous versions, and makes more sense. but the texture of the small peak of your roof is not suitable ( the pink one ).

That said, it's a very good start!

Good luck for your next step!

Delecto / Samuel

  Edited September 2, 2011 by Delecto  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

You're definitely on the right track model-wise. I agree that the new roof junk is a huge step forwards, and the new ground floor works much better, too. As far as the booth is concerned, I'm with madhatter106. The additional benefit of having it between entry and exit lane is that it will look less like something that was hastily slapped to the building.

One idea about that blank wall: I imagine there would be a corridor that leads to the offices towards the front and towards the back of the building. That corridor would be likely to run more or less parallel to the road, so it may end right in the middle of that blank wall. Hence, maybe a column of single windows to mark the end of that corridor would be a logical addition? Just an idea in case you're looking for something plausible to make that wall a bit more interesting although it remains fundamentally blank.

Textures all over the building will need some further tweaking, but I'm sure you'll succeed. Keep it up, you're doing great!

[jwong 13]

here's an update with the suggested amendments:

it's in sketchup as it takes a long time to bring it back over to gmax and would be easier to apply all necessary amendments now than going back and forth all the time. Textures here will look different when in gmax (haven't really set the parameters for them, as they get lost during the conversion process).

Any more suggestions?

[jwong 13]

since there hasn't been any replies, i guess that means to show the building in gmax form, so here it is:

[Ion_Cannon 677]

It looks very nice, but that bottom empty / featureless level looks odd, if you don't want it to be an office floor maybe stick some sort of industrial looking equipment / cooling apparatus on the side of it, you often get that for basement-ish levels.

  Edited September 4, 2011 by Ion_Cannon  

[Alex_Bervoets 91]

I agree with Ion_Cannon: the bottom is very empty, that little overhang above the entrance too...

Office buildings have a back door/garage (for delivery's) and a fire escape... A parking lot would also have some ventilation for the car-gasses.

Keep it up... you're getting close

[IDS2 3,344]

You could use some more windows on the side wall of that main entrance. Lobbies are usually designed to be very open and bright. I do like the dirt you've added to the walls though.

[jwong 13]

ok, thanks for the replies.

So, as suggested, I've replicated building in real-life:

Basically, a commercial retail outlet.

  Edited September 7, 2011 by jwong  

[harishna 847]

Hi Jwong, nice start, just a couple of details: the parapet seem to be too thick and big, and is the roof junk and ac unit at the back based in the real life building?

I am assuming you haven't added textures to this one so I won't comment on that.

Would you mind providing link to see the building from google maps and some pictures from the real building?

[jwong 13]

[...]and is the roof junk and ac unit at the back based in the real life building?

no, the roof junk is something i put in. I guess it wasn't very convincing huh?

I am assuming you haven't added textures to this one so I won't comment on that.

And yes, it is textured... well, I guess not well then...

Would you mind providing link to see the building from google maps and some pictures from the real building?

here's the only 'good' picture I could find:

plus google maps link:

http://g.co/maps/wjtt2

  Edited September 8, 2011 by jwong  

[Dexter 40]

ok, thanks for the replies.

So, as suggested, I've replicated building in real-life:

Basically, a commercial retail outlet.

That looks like a nice start, good to see a British store being BATted

I have a few suggestions on how you can improve it though:

1. If you switch to the ariel view on Google, you can see the roof has 12 "ridges" (6 on each side). Adding these will help break up the large surface.

2. The yellow brick texture needs more definition, but looking at the RL example they're quite bland, so maybe texturing it as larger blocks would look good.

3. The textures are too clean and bright, especially the roof, bearing in mind that rough horizontal surfaces are more likely to get stained. Also try to compare the textures and colours to the in-game palette, as the black preview background in GMAX has the tendancy to make things appear brighter and less-saturated than the really are.

Once you've got those sorted, this could potentially be a very nice BAT indeed!

[madhatter106 3,903]

What happened to the office building? Was hoping you would see that one through to the end...

[jwong 13]

I will see what i can do guys

In the meantime, here's another update to the office building (so no need to worry madhatter ):

Perhaps the windows on the side of the ground floor could do with another row?

Also I will probably add a few windows on the back.

  Edited September 9, 2011 by jwong  

[bixel 1,221]

Looks good to me! And as far as parking access goes - Portland has a lot of buildings like these.

[madhatter106 3,903]

Something about the bottom row of windows bugs me. I don't know if they are too wide, or too close to the ground, or what. Perhaps a google search on "office ground floor" or something of the sort will better inform the design choice. Right now, they don't quite ring true or believable, and I can't put my finger on it. Also, think about what is on the ground floor at that area of the building...is it the front lobby extending that far back? Is it a hallway near the elevators?