Massive Explosion Rocks Oslo

[Ocram's Razr 964]

What purpose or benefit do these political camps serve to the public? They would not be legal in the USA because of fear of indoctrination and political propaganda in a 2 party system but a multiparty system is different.

[Easy Bakes 253]

What purpose or benefit do these political camps serve to the public? They would not be legal in the USA because of fear of indoctrination and political propaganda in a 2 party system but a multiparty system is different.

those political camps are probably no different then your average vacation bible school expeditions

to some lake park for a week.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

What purpose or benefit do these political camps serve to the public? They would not be legal in the USA because of fear of indoctrination and political propaganda in a 2 party system but a multiparty system is different.

those political camps are probably no different then your average vacation bible school expeditions

to some lake park for a week.

I suspect it is not the bible that the attendees are exposed to. Political awareness in the young is maybe a good thing. If we had more of it on this side of the ditch we wouldn't have such a static mess, I suspect.

[Easy Bakes 253]

What purpose or benefit do these political camps serve to the public? They would not be legal in the USA because of fear of indoctrination and political propaganda in a 2 party system but a multiparty system is different.

those political camps are probably no different then your average vacation bible school expeditions

to some lake park for a week.

I suspect it is not the bible that the attendees are exposed to. Political awareness in the young is maybe a good thing. If we had more of it on this side of the ditch we wouldn't have such a static mess, I suspect.

No, i was just finding something to compare it too and VBS was about the closest thing we have here

unless you count The Young Republicians

but i dont think they have camp outs, looks like they are just free labor for republican candidates and the place were new republican candidates are pulled from.

  Edited August 4, 2011 by Easy Bakes  

[Meg 368]

A very disturbing headline: Westboro Baptist Church Plans to Picket at Norway Funerals

Someone please tell me that there is a law in Norway that will result in locking these morons away forever.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A very disturbing headline: Westboro Baptist Church Plans to Picket at Norway Funerals

Someone please tell me that there is a law in Norway that will result in locking these morons away forever.

1. You've got to be kidding.
2. This is the height of insanity
3. How are they going to get there? Will the Norwegians let them in? (I doubt it.)
4. Do they realize that Norway is not the United States? If they do this, they will be in big trouble in a foreign country.
5. Keep fingers crossed, it may be the end of these fools.

If there is a God, they have definitely put their feet on the primrose path. This slippery slope leads directly to Dis. The one in the arctic is renowned for being very cold.

[Easy Bakes 253]

These nuts again.

Someone needs to find out were their getting their money.

Surely someone has informed the Norwegian authority's to not let these nutbars in.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

These nuts again.

Someone needs to find out were their getting their money.

Surely someone has informed the Norwegian authority's to not let these nutbars in.

You mean somebody at the Department of State? If you get them off shore, how about revoking their passports?

[Alejandro24 575]

A very disturbing headline: Westboro Baptist Church Plans to Picket at Norway Funerals

Someone please tell me that there is a law in Norway that will result in locking these morons away forever.

I thinked that the complot againt Elizabeth Tailor's funeral was the limit... what a disrespect from they. The only thing that they do is to give grief and shame.

[RipRap 4,400]

That's a shame... They should be sorry on what they're doing.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

That's a shame... They should be sorry on what they're doing.

Zealots have no limits in their own minds. I am sure every one of them thinks he or she is "saved". Theologically, each and every one of them is "damned". It is a grievous (mortal) sin to claim to know the mind of God. This is a form of insanity, and some would call it demonic possession. Apparently among this group, it is contagious.

[Jamesrules90 133]

I wouldn't call the Westboro people zealots so much as people who just want to pick a fight. It honestly seems like they are just disagreeing with everybody as their beliefs are so extreme I cannot believe that somebody can honestly believe it without cult level conditioning.

Although the sheer audacity it takes to go to peoples funerals and picket them is just disgusting, no god would want somebody to do that kind of thing lets hope they get their visas declined.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I wouldn't call the Westboro people zealots so much as people who just want to pick a fight. It honestly seems like they are just disagreeing with everybody as their beliefs are so extreme I cannot believe that somebody can honestly believe it without cult level conditioning.

Although the sheer audacity it takes to go to peoples funerals and picket them is just disgusting, no god would want somebody to do that kind of thing lets hope they get their visas declined.

that exactly what WBC is all about, they are bunch of lawyers who protest what every that want to and spew hatred. When a town denies them a permit they sue that thier free speach is being violated, and usulay win. if confronted or assulted at one of thier "protests" they sue them too, and win.

truly a scourge on any socitey

  Edited August 6, 2011 by Easy Bakes  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I wouldn't call the Westboro people zealots so much as people who just want to pick a fight. It honestly seems like they are just disagreeing with everybody as their beliefs are so extreme I cannot believe that somebody can honestly believe it without cult level conditioning.

Although the sheer audacity it takes to go to peoples funerals and picket them is just disgusting, no god would want somebody to do that kind of thing lets hope they get their visas declined.

that exactly what WBC is all about, they are bunch of lawyers who protest what every that want to and spew hatred. When a town denies them a permit they sue that their free speach is being violated, and usually win. if confronted or assulted at one of thier "protests" they sue them too, and win.

truly a scourge on any socitey

If all they want to do is litigate there should be a way to get them disbarred. Someone may do it with an AK47.

[krbe 193]

What purpose or benefit do these political camps serve to the public? They would not be legal in the USA because of fear of indoctrination and political propaganda in a 2 party system but a multiparty system is different.

Political camps are just that -- camps for people organised in political (youth) parties. All parties arrange them -- after all, that's where many of the politicians of tomorrow will be found (sadly, as this also makes it easy to create "career politicians" amongst their talent). It's not that much different from the mother parties' yearly congresses. "Policy" is created, and in the evenings you socialise.

Really no difference from businesses, churchs, the Red Cross or other NGOs (youth) camps, except the agenda of course.

Besides, political camps are not designed to serve the public, but the party that arrange them. Only in the wider sense does a camp benefit the public as they create and maintain parties.

that exactly what WBC is all about, they are bunch of lawyers who protest what every that want to and spew hatred. When a town denies them a permit they sue that thier free speach is being violated, and usulay win. if confronted or assulted at one of thier "protests" they sue them too, and win.

Luckily "freedom of speech" works differently in Europe. The important aspect is not your right to speak in any form, but the absence of the state's restrictions on your opinions. Both the ECHR art. 10 and the Constitution's § 100 contain these principles.

  Edited August 6, 2011 by krbe  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

While I am sure everyone realizes that the political youth camps are the same as the similar organizations we have like the Young Tories and Young Liberals, there are faint echoes of "Hitler Youth" floating around. This can be kind of scary, and I am sorry but this is in my personal experience, being a 1937 model. And yes, we do have meetings of these groups in relaxed settings as well, so why should anyone be surprised?

As for the WBC group, I would be surprised if, given their stated intention, that they can even get into Norway. If they do, please keep them. Someplace in the arctic with the polar bears would be good. If you don't want them, maybe we could take them to Alert, and let them meet the bears there. I am sure the bears need extra protein this time of year.

[drillman42 4]

What purpose or benefit do these political camps serve to the public? They would not be legal in the USA because of fear of indoctrination and political propaganda in a 2 party system but a multiparty system is different.

http://www.meetup.com/tampa912/events/22130491/

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Neither of those links were particularly convincing on the positive impact of those camps.

[chicah 20]

Okay, I wrote a long comment on what's great with youth organizing politically on a newspaper article online, but I can't find it so I'll have to start over again.

This is probably a cultural thing. I disagree with krbe on almost all accounts on what's "good" with this.

What I see as the best, and most important thing, political organizing for youth do, is that it makes us more aware. We learn and understand much more about how the society works, and we develop and mature. IMO.

That was probably very short and confusing. I'll try to explain better:

Norwegian youth are some of the best in the world when it comes to understanding democracy and society. If you have good teachers, you learn from a young age in school to be critical and aware of what's going on in a society. Educational studies suggest that Norwegian youth might not be as good in maths or English as some other countries, but when it comes to the social aspect, we score higher than anyone. We are the most content with school, we are the most involved and feel taken seriously as human beings in the school system. (Of course, the Norwegian school system is in no way perfect - it is designed for the good student, not the dyslexic guy who prefers sports or vocational studies.) We have "unions" for students and pupils from junior high until you graduate university, who are there to work for the students' demands and so forth. Not just for adults, but for youth/children too.

And now to the youth parties/youth organizations: When there were no youth parties, youth who wanted to get involved, wanted their place in a society they had no control over even though they had to live in it, were either not let in with the adults or not taken seriously at all. That's why the youth parties were made. It's not about "brainwashing" the youth, this if made by and for youth. It gives you a possibility to work for youth issues, which the "adult" parties sometimes ignore completely since most youths can't vote. It develops you and you learn a lot through discussion and dispute. Some people find, after a while, that they don't agree anymore and move on. Other people stay. It's not brainwashing, it's completely voluntary, and most parents - and the society as a whole - think it is great for youths to engage in the society. It shows you care about the society and want to improve it, it shows you have other interests than just football, shopping, whatever - and that you are aware that you are the "future", and therefore you are the only ones who can work to change it.

[Cobraroll 138]

Sure, let the WBC come to Norway. I don't think we can prevent them for coming, there are no laws for that as far as I can remember, but people can be arrested the second they leave the plane/boat/crosses the border by other means. Not going to happen before any crime is committed, though. However, we have laws against picketing like that and hateful behaviour, and the American way of "sue them when they disagree" is laughed upon here. Hate crime can easily give them a year of confinement, and their God is mostly ignored or forgotten in this country. I'm amazed those people aren't behind bars already.

In other news, the dust begins to settle here now. Pictures from the Government block have been released, and it doesn't look like the building too well. Some pics here:

http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/08/10/nyheter/arbeidsdepartementet/hanne_bjurstrom/terrorangrepene/terrorangrepet/17621672/

and here:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4194358.ece

The news are mostly filled with revelations concerning the maniac behind the attacks. He seems to be a completely disturbed nutjob, who "was satisfied with the results" of the terror attacks. In his manifesto, he tries to come across as an intellectual, but fails badly, apparently. Most of it is like reading YouTube comments, the rest is copied from other works. There seems to be a lot of thought behind what he writes, but those aren't reflected thoughts. Hardly any of it goes beyond "muslims and left-wings are baaaaad, we must KILL them!!1".

He has also listed "The royal family must abdicate" and "I want control of the State and its armed forces" among his demands for his confinement. There was apparently a long list of demands, but only a couple went through: he didn't want to be served Halal meat in prison, and he has access to a pen and some paper. To add to the list, he has not showed any sign of remorse yet.

Crazy guy. He's put under constant supervision so he can't commit suicide, and they test all his food for poisoning. It's important that he is brought before court and given a sentence. They go to great lengths to secure this, and personally, I agree with them. After the hammer hits the table, on the other hand...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Norway, which happens to be one of our neighbor states, doesn't have a reputation for being cruel to anyone or anything. Once you get this idiot sentenced, I hope you can find a suitable oubliette, preferably in the arctic. The Nordic Hell would be suitable for him.

Do you pop up political nuts like this very often?

[Cobraroll 138]

^I think our biggest "terrorist" until now was Arfan Bhatti, who fired (or assisted the act) several shots at the (empty at the time) synagogue in Oslo in the middle of the night in 2006. He had been locked up for other things such as gang crime earlier, and was also charged for planning an attack at the American embassy in Oslo (throwing hand grenades at it). He got eight years in prison and is still in there.

Then we have Mullah Krekar, an Iraqi refugee who founded a terrorist group in Iraq sometimes in the nineties, and regularly voices out his opinions on how Norwegian soldiers in Afghanistan are terrorists, or that "if you send me back to Iraq and I get killed, some of my contacts will commit terror in Norway as well", and the like. The authorities haven't managed to find a solution for him yet, so they just let him stay in Norway, and sometimes check if he is planning terrorism or supports "jihad" or anything like that. He has been caught doing so, an act that sended him straight to the debate programs on television. The latest we heard from him was that he was accused of death treaths aimed at politician Erna Solberg. More info on him here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullah_Krekar

(I think some of you Americans will find this a funny read. Welcome to our way of dealing with terrorists)

So yeah, I guess that's it for Norwegian terrorism or political extremism until now. Seriously, we have criminals, but those two guys are the closest we've had to "terrorists" before 22/7. I don't think we've ever had anything on the scale of Breivik before, and by that I mean ever. He's an abnormality to say the least.

  Edited August 11, 2011 by Cobraroll  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, I didn't read the whole article. Sounds like Norway is very like Canada in that regard. We wouldn't deport him to be executed either, but would just keep tabs on him. If we thought he could get a fair, non-letal trial in Iraq, we would give him to them.

In Canada, if we convicted him of a terrorist act, he would get life imprisonment, which here amounts to 14 years with good behavior

Edited to remove references to his demographic background.

[chicah 20]

Cobraroll, just to correct you: Most terror we've seen in Norway has come from the extreme right. Example, Varg Vikernes who burned churches, the murder of Benjamin Hermansen, that guy throwing a bomb into the parade on Labour day. Mullah Krekar has never done any terror here, so it is unfair to count him, IMO.

[Cobraroll 138]

^Ahh, true. Forgot about those, though their status as "acts of terrorism" can be disputed. The bomb certainly counts, though. Anyway, I stand corrected.

Krekar was added because he is percieved by some as a terrorist (he has threatened with terrorism earlier, at least). You just can't avoid him when it comes to discussing terrorism in Norway, at least not before 22/7.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^Ahh, true. Forgot about those, though their status as "acts of terrorism" can be disputed. The bomb certainly counts, though. Anyway, I stand corrected.

Krekar was added because he is percieved by some as a terrorist (he has threatened with terrorism earlier, at least). You just can't avoid him when it comes to discussing terrorism in Norway, at least not before 22/7.

Well, what do you do about hate crimes in Norway? We take quite a dim view. Recently kicked a past first nations president out of the Order of Canada, and convicted him of bad mouthing Jews. Getting your Order of Canada lifted is about the same as the U.S. taking back a medal of freedom.

  Edited August 16, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Breivik declared insane

This was probably inevitable. Well, my Norwegian friends, what will they do with him now?

[Easy Bakes 253]

this wont keep him out of prision.

[chicah 20]

According to Norwegian law, you cannot sentence someone to prison when they have been declared insane.

You can convict them regardless, though, and ship them off to a mental institution - which is what will happen to Breivik. Every third year the court will have to review his sentence and see whether he's a danger to society and still psychotic, if he is, he has to stay. In theory, they could keep him for an indefinite time - but in theory, he could also get released, if he gets better. Which I'm sure no one would want, but they would have to. Either way, I don't think he's ever getting out.

He wanted to recruit people in jail, in an institution there's a bigger chance that they'll keep him isolated and away from other patients. I have no belief that it's possible to "heal" him, but there is no doubt he is insane. This is just a little unfair as it feels although he loses some of the blame and responsibility for his actions. Call me selfish, but I wanted to see him in jail.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

What few people know is that according to the law of most countries, being declared insane tends to be a life sentence in an asylum. Some murderers declare insanity thinking they will go to a cushy hospital for a couple years then get out, this is never the case.