Carpenter7's BATs

[psander5 198]

You can extract them from the SC4 Dat files I think.  This tutorial shows how to do that... amongst other stuff.  Once you get them into BAT though you'll probably have to adjust the image to make it match with normal in-game textures as the BAT will render it with its own lighting.  

[carpenter7 59]

psander5, that is a great tutorial! I'll definitely get some use out of that. However, I've really gotten bogged down with my current project. I am making a rail viaduct station and the station is done and looks pretty good. Trains will pass through it no problem however the viaduct BATs in game wont (for obvious reasons). All I need to be finished is recreate the track from the viaducts into the station to make everything look right but I feel as though I could spend months trying to line up the textures, get them the right shade/color, etc... Is there an easier way? how do others make overpasses and bridges etc... that line up right? Thanks!

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

Could you give us some images of the project and the areas in question? That would help diagnose the situation.

[zahrul3 472]

To match with NAM rail viaducts, ask them first for the textures(surely they will have anyway). Do something simpler for now but keep the viaduct as a side project

[carpenter7 59]

I'm currently working on the Cincinnati Union Station in OH. (See pics below) what do you guys think? Advice/suggestions are very welcome! (for some reason some of the roof textures didn't show in the render, but they are there).

SimHottoddy:

I wanted a rail viaduct station and since in real life the concourse for this station has been torn down (very very sad) I thought I would convert it for my use. I'm trying to get my tracks to line up with the in game viaduct pieces without having to do a 45 minute draft render that's quality is so bad I can't really tell if it lines up or not. I pulled this track texture from the game it self (with a screen shot and photoshop). Any thoughts? Also, I learned today that I would have to make the actual train platform/concourse several different props to allow the train to appear to actually pass through it. When I tried to do a highquality render of the canopy this is what I got:

It never looks like this when I render it all together (see original shots at the top). Why is the transparancy disapearing?

[psander5 198]

Nice station!  

The transparency thing is because the game isn't great at it, basically.  If the opacity is above 50%, it will be opaque in game, and if it's below 50% it'll be completely transparent.  I think you have to set opacity at exactly 50% to get it to be translucent.  I've never played with transparency though, so I'm not certain about this.  I think there is a way to tinker with the model after rendering to make it look better, but I believe it's quite complicated.  Maybe someone else knows where to get that information from... 

I'm not sure I can help with scaling for the train tracks either.  I do know that the viaducts are 15m high.  As for width I'd probably use Photoshop or Gimp to measure it... knowing that the complete texture is 16m wide.  It might cut down on the trial and error steps if you make educated guesses.   From your render it looks more or less there already.  It's difficult to tell without reference though.

I know nothing about transit enabling, or making models that can be transit enabled

Good luck though.  It's a nice model! 

[SimCity4IE 203]

You could just make custom LODs. Make sure these's no LOD box where the train will pass through. It should work if you do that. 

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

Huge step up from your last BAT, my congratulations.

One of the network guys may be able to help with the texture/centering issues you have. I'll talk about the BAT itself (as that is my department )

First of all, great pick! That station can be found right under the definition of art deco if you look it up in the dictionary. I love it! I know you have to make artistic liberties with some parts to make it logistically simplified and better suited to the game's square, and you have done a pretty good job of that I think. The glass canopy is nice, but it really doesn't fit the station. Rather than try to make your transparent canopy fit the building, why not go the direction of the original(if only on a smaller scale)? Which is to say, implement some of the concourse you love so much.

Textures need some work, but aren't too bad. I touched up your render very quickly (some places may look odd, ignore that ), really didn't have to do much. I made the wall texture about 20% darker, I made the roof darker and a little less saturated, I made the roof textures darker, less saturated and added a some contrast. You are on the right track with them, I really didn't have to play around much. Anyway, here is what I came up with:

I would suggest making some 1:1 adjustments though, that is, make gradients or stains that will line up with specific parts of the model. This will help bring it to life and get the look that this marvelous station deserves.

[Jasoncw 12,017]

I second Todd's suggestions, and I also suggest changing the hue of the roof from red to blue (actually, a similar color to the metal part of the roof). I also want to say that this is an impressive improvement over your previous BAT.

[psander5 198]

Woah!  I thought the BAT looked pretty spectacular, but this building in its original state looks even more striking!  I've never heard of it before, but after Todd posted that old photo I looked it up.  It's a shame you Americans gave up on rail travel.  This would have been a great place to pull into on a tour of the US! 

Maybe one day you could do a full, historic recreation   It would be a big project, but as Todd says, you've already made a big step up. It could be made in several parts I guess... although demolished things don't tend to have many reference photos... and there are probably no Google Earth pics of it

Your own personal take on it is still pretty special though! 

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Here's my idea: You can model the concourse separately in a way that it overhangs the lot. Then you could place the station facing the street, and the concourse from the other side of the tracks so that both go together back to back. You could even model different versions of the concourse, e.g. one that spans 3 sets of tracks,. one that spans 5... whatever you like!

[mightygoose 92]

Originally posted by: T Wrecks

Here's my idea: You can model the concourse separately in a way that it overhangs the lot. Then you could place the station facing the street, and the concourse from the other side of the tracks so that both go together back to back. You could even model different versions of the concourse, e.g. one that spans 3 sets of tracks,. one that spans 5... whatever you like!quote>

thats what i was thinking, although i had each platform( one tile width) individually but then how would inner ones serve as stations with no ped access.

[carpenter7 59]

hey guys, thanks for the positive feedback. It really means a lot to me! I think I have figured out how to make the current platform work I just need to figure out the following:

1. How to make props light up at night. I had always thought they should do this automatically but after several exports that work fine as buildings (in regards to night lighting) but don't light up as props I am assuming that something special must be done. I have this tutorial but it doesn't really seem to fit my situation.

https://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/index.cfm/Main.SimCity_4.Custom_Content.Creating_Custom_Working_Light_Props

Does anyone know how to do it?

2. How to make/edit custom LODs. I need to make the LOD over just one side wall of the platform when it renders but make the game think its much bigger so it can overhang the lot in LE. Any advice?

In regards to textures, I really like your suggestions simhottoddy, I'll work on those now.

I had thought a similar thing about the concourse but I couldn't figure out how to make it work with viaduct. Here is what I'm thinking. I'll make two versions of the Lot, one with the current viaduct platform and another with the ground rail concourse from the picture. The great part about the platform being a prop is that I don't have to export two full models. And like you said Twreks some one could edit the lot to extend the concourse over several rail lines if desired.

[carpenter7 59]

oh one other thing. I've been thinking a lot about roof junk. A lot of what a player sees is the roof and all the random stuff on it (especially with a building that is wider than it is tall). I put a good bit of work into the main items for a the roof (even a ladder and paint bucket which you can't really see in the render) but it seems to me that the little details are missing. for example there is a exhaust hood on the middle left if you look carefully you can see a small junction box connected to the hood by conduit. In my humble opinion its the little details like that that trick the eye into believing what it sees. Any thoughts on small touches?

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

If you want to see the effect of tiny details on the appearance of the building, just look at the work of Madhatter106. In short, the more the merrier! You want to be as realistic as possible when it comes to roof junk (so use your real world references), but the more character and fun details you add the more "alive" and interesting the BAT becomes.

To make props light up, when you make the .desc file in plug in manager, go over to the "advanced" tab, select the "light" value and change it to "true". Another important one in "common" in PIM is the "Is Ground Model" value (which determines whether or not the prop makes shadows in game), this should also be set to "true".

[gutterclub 2,733]

Originally posted by: psander5  It's a shame you Americans gave up on rail travel.  This would have been a great place to pull into on a tour of the US! 

! quote>

True, although I did a tour on the bus and some of the Greyhound stations were pretty great examples of Streamline Art Deco and were pretty impressive to pull up into.

This station is a great improvement from your previous work, just work on the textures that Todd and Jason are pointing you in and you'll be onto a winner. Good luck and good work

[io_bg 249]

Very nice work so far! I hope the final version will have more platforms, though

[carpenter7 59]

FYI you can get the texture files here on the STEX (I found them randomly searching for something else) https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18557

[DocRorlach 25]

Definitely a great station. Not being a Batter, I don't understand any of the texture comments - it looks absolutely great as it is. My only concern would be that a station of this size would only have one double-track/platform. That seems odd; would have thought this to be at least a six-line (three double tracks) type of station. But then again, my comment may be premature..

[carpenter7 59]

Hey guys,

here is what I have decided: The viaduct version will (Lord willing) be released as it shows in the photo plus some texture adjustments. I will also release a ground rail version that will have a modular track overpass/platform prop. I'll probably release it for 3 lines but anyone could go into the LE and copy the prop and make it for more lines. I might even post the viaduct version this weekend. We'll see though.

[carpenter7 59]

One other question: is it possible to put one texture over another? So I could add stains n' such like simhottoddy suggested without having to make a custom texture for each wall?

[carpenter7 59]

I have a really frustrating problem! I finished a bat for the concourse (for 3 tracks fyi) and to make the trains pass through i made custom LODs. everything looks right with the model however when its in game or LE it is floating (the bottom of the bat is roughly 10m off the ground)! its not at ground level and you can't move a prop down (below 0) only up in LE. I checked back in the gmax and everything looks ok. my LOD is on Z 0 and most of the bottom of the model is too. there was a tiny piece outside of the LOD pointing downwards: could that be the issue? I dont want to do another 3-4 hour render just to see if that is the issue. anyone had this issue before?

[jpj_starfleet 3]

OMG I've been to this station! it is like one of the holy grails of train stations in this country along with LA and NYC, its now a museum but magnificently restored, I even took one of those personal tours and got to see the station masters office and walk the corridor that crosses the glass front just below the clock! I very much look forward to this and this will be my main downtown train station, I must go plan for it now! lol

[carpenter7 59]

jpj_starfleet: thanks! I love trains, and I'm pretty jealous that i haven't actually been to this station

Issue:

here is a screen shot of my problem (mentioned above) in LE. this is after I did yet another full render. I'm pretty much stuck till i get this one figured out.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

First of all I have to say I love you work and I can't believe that I have miss the work on it.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

You can have things below the z=0 line, but your LODs can not be below this point. I'm not entirely sure what the issue is, but it looks like a LOD problem with the station or the platform model.

It may help sort out the situation if you have both the station and the platform connected in gmax, but only have the LODs cover the platform area. This will make it seem that the platform is not a prop, but is actually connected to the model because there will be small parts of the station visible in the platform prop. Putting them in the same scene might also help you smooth out any incongruousness that may be there causing the problem.

[Cleaner475 150]

Oooohhhhh..... this looks awesome! Really can't wait for this to be released, absolutely love the nightlights, this is really something special, great work

Richard

[jpj_starfleet 3]

Again a great choice of stations to model.. .just one point I noticed, the ends of the canopy's on the train platforms should be rounded off and have you considered making the two story switch tower that was above the station just before the concourse? it would work with the ground tracks but would probably not work or look good with your elevated NAM tracks idea.

[carpenter7 59]

Thanks guys! I know I say this a lot but your feedback really means a lot to me! (especially when its positive )

jpj_starfleet: Those are good suggestions. I think I'll go change the canopies tomorrow. As for the control tower I am on the fence about it. I dropped it originally because i was going for a viaduct station but now that I'm doing ground rail i could easily put it back in. I just feel lazy and don't want to!

In regards to my Issue: I'm thinking it might all need to be one BAT (building & platforms/concourse) with a custom LOD for the platforms, and after that shrink the foot print via ilive so it can overhang. I found this thread a while back:

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=121&threadid=116163&enterthread=y

but I cant find one that shows me how to shrink the footprint with ilive. (i stink at reader) would any of you guys be willing to give me a brief run down on what steps are required to shrink the footprint of a building?

[jpj_starfleet 3]

If you have any questions about the station itself just ask I have a book all about the construction including maps.