nybt-forum-threads Lucky 7s' BAT STUDIO

lucky7 · October 5, 2010

Finally, I have dared to start work with GMAX and BAT...

As for my current project, I decided to BAT the highrise towers in COOP City,

Bronx, NYC- I could have started with one of the smaller houses, though. Thus,

I have given an extra challenge to myself, being a newbie... lol

However, this is what I am aiming for:

And these are the BAT pics:

Top View:

Preview:

A close-up in the Perspective:

So, please tell me what you think, comments and suggestions are highly welcome,

Take care everyone,

lucky7

Sgt Pepper · October 5, 2010

Rene! I'm glad you're taking up BATing now besides that amazing lot-work of yours. So far so good and I must say it's a surprise to see this come up! It'll be interesting to see you BAT mixed with your attention to detail come together... I'm a little stale at BATing now since I've been having trouble finding time but I'll see what I can suggest.

First things first though, I hope the textures aren't final. Some of them atleast. The roof texture mainly. It looks kinda grainy, or it could be just the quality of the preview render. Some of the textures, like the wall texture mainly look like the UVW Mapping could be worked and maybe a new texture in place since it looks like it could use a more varied texture.

Proportion wise...hmm it looks right to me, but I think Todd or SimFox would be able to judge that far better than me. But from the looks of it and the viewport view I think the proportions are all right.

Hopes this helps Rene!

Cockatoo · October 5, 2010

Good to see you BATing! That’s a nice building you've picked to start off with too, you're going to need to learn quite a few things before it can be finished though... like you said, it will be a challenge.

That's a pretty decent start you've made there. I guess what you have to ask yourself though is... are you aiming to perfectly recreate the building shown in the photo, or are you just aiming to produce a building inspired by it. I've never been an expert with proportions and scales, but right now it's fairly obvious that the building shown in your preview render is not the building from the picture. The floor heights are far too high and the gaps between windows too large. The exterior details are also completely different as I'm sure you're already aware, but if you're not aiming for a perfect recreation, this is all fine.

I've gotta commend you for taking the time to model a base section, although it could be just a tad high. A lot of new BATers tend to forget that the ground floor of a building is different from the first, so well done. As for the roof, well even from the pic you've shown, I can tell that the texture you've used is far too grainy and stretched out (oversized). I'd suggest making a custom one in a photo editing program. Texturing is a massive part of BATing and in most cases you need to create (or at least edit) your textures yourself. If you're not familiar with some sort of photo editing program, now would be a good time to learn. There are some nice looking details up there on that roof that will make the BAT look fantastic if you model them, it's always good to keep in mind that when BATing, never skimp on the roof. If anything, make if the most detailed section of all. From an SC4 perspective, it gets a lot of exposure. The glass texture you’ve used will obviously need some work; there are tricks you can use to fake reflectivity or at least some sort of glass-like effect in Gmax. It’s things like that that really make the BAT.

Anyway, good luck. I'll be waiting to see what you can come up with.

lucky7 · October 6, 2010

Thanks a lot for your thoughts and suggestions so far, as these are very important to me.

@ Brandon: No, these are not the final textures, no way, I just wanted to try the texturing tool out I mean I am ok with the texture style on the outer and inner walls (brick and tiles), but they have to be way darker... and dirtier, they look too clean.

As for the proportions: well, I followed some advices to overscale them already when modelling. That is one of the main points that confuses me, honestly spoken: why overscale it, if the building gets stretched 133% afterwards to make it fit in the game????

Thanks for your help, very much appreciated!

@Cockatoo-210893: the same scale question as above arises here: overscale the floors while modelling or make them right proportionwise and wait until the '133% stretch'? As for the exterior details: of course the balconies are to be added, I deleted them because they need to be re-worked... so the building is far away from being completed! My thought was to show it to you while still being in the modelling phase: I think it's way better to change things or to remodel before having finished the entire model- play it safe.

As for the roof: thank you very much for your advice to pay extra attention to the final outcome, very appreciated.

Oh, and the glass texture: the windows are not textured yet; I have just applied an UVW map and made to them and made them bluish as a personal helper for myself. However, thank you very much for your thoughts and suggestions.

A question to everyone regarding scaling: the general contens I've found about scaling are somehow contradictive: one says to oversize it, whilst the other one recommends to model it with the exact height proportions and then overscale it to 133%...

How do YOU do it?

Any suggestions and help on this is more than welcome, thanks a lot in advance and take care everyone,

Ren

Cockatoo · October 7, 2010

When modelling something, it's best to always use real proportions and dimensions. If a building is 178.5m tall in real life, your model should rise 178.5m off the ground. I'd suggest that any scaling should be done when the model is complete via the stretch tool - and it's your choice weather or not to do this. Personally, I don't. Having said this, even if you have been manually scaling dimensions up as you work - I still think your model is far too tall to represent the building in the photo. By scaling up to 133%, you model should appear to be the same height as the building is in real life when viewed in your preview render - your model is far too tall.

I'll let this post from the Mega FAQ do the explaining...

How Tall Should I Model my Floor Heights?

Maxis used a variety of scales on their buildings. Some of the R§ houses are the same size as the cars in the street. Other Maxis buildings have a more realistic scale.
If you model your building using realistic dimensions, your building will look too short in the game, because SimCity 4's view is a parallel projection, and will distort the appearance of your building. Vertically scaling your model by 133% will overcome this squashing effect.

Modeling with realistic dimensions, and then vertically scaling by 133% (or modeling with the scaled up dimensions as you go along) will make your buildings visually proportional. It will also keep your building's scale consistent with other buildings you do.

But ultimately your buildings will be used in the game. Another way to judge your building's scale is to do a test export, and plop your building next to similar buildings. For example, if you are making a R§ house, you might choose to under scale your building, so that it fits in with its environment of other under scaled R§ houses.
quote>

lucky7 · October 7, 2010

@ Cockatoo-210893: Thanks a lot, now things are clearer. You are absolutely right about the overscaled model, btw. That's why I completely re-started and I am done with the base and the first floor, realisticly scaled

Thanks again,

lucky7

lucky7 · October 10, 2010

After some very careful measuring this is what I wanted to share with you:

IMO it looks way better than the initial version.

Comments and suggestions are very welcome,

take care everyone,

lucky7

lucky7 · October 11, 2010

Just a quick report on the COOP City Towers, as I have done some work today.

Please, note, that the 22m sidewalls are missing, as well as some building sills, the entire roof scenery and - naturally- all of the textures. However, I do hope you like the progress and PLEASE keep suggesting as this can highly improve my work.

You can even tell me that this is trash, but DO tell me...

However, here we go with a close-up in the P-view:

Even closer and I do hope you see the different set-backs:

Preview, 1:

Preview 2:

So, this it is. Suggestions / comments are really appreciated as I have just started,

take care everyone,

lucky7

Sgt Pepper · October 11, 2010

So far so good Rene. And very accurate so far I must say. I think you'll do spectacular on this.

Something though, I'm curious about the columns at the base on how they line up between and after the window rows compared to that Bing Photo you showed and yours. It could be me and my bad vision, but something looks different on yours compared to the RL building. Just a thought though.

Aaron Graham · October 11, 2010

Looks great.

Chris M · October 12, 2010

You're doing an excellent job in here, Lucky7! I love your attention to small details.

Vlasky · October 12, 2010

So far so good!

lucky7 · October 20, 2010

@ Brandon: you were right about the windows not lining up correctly with the columns... I messed up the walls.

This is solved now and the model is on the verge of being completed

@ Aaron: thanks, but still a long way...

@ DragonAnime: well, I guess I am somehow addicted to detailing and I have learnt a lot since my last update here.

@ Vlasky: the status quo progress is more pleasing...

OK, the model is almost completed; sills are placed, the majority of the roof scenery is done- vents and such are missing- , balconies are missing, too.

However, some pics of my progress:

There will be another version with a water tower on top. Both versions will come with and without small windows on the smaller sides (the ones that have balconies).

Comments and suggestions are, as always, highly appreciated, texturing should start on the weekend.

Take care everyone,

lucky7

gio10469 · October 20, 2010

Wow this is really coming along Rene...great work!

Aaron Graham · October 20, 2010

Looking great as you go, I'm ready to see texture soon.

Parisian · October 20, 2010

That's good Lucky7. It's the first time I come on your lab . I think it is these building (brownstone style) which look like better New York than anyother building. looking good so far...

Sgt Pepper · October 20, 2010

Oh wow Rene, marvelous job! I can't wait to see some more. At this point I got nothing to suggest. The roof details so far are fantastically modeled out. Same with the windows and base.

lucky7 · October 24, 2010

@ gio10469 Thanks, glad you like it.

@ Aaron Graham Here's the first part and thank you.

@ Parisian You're very welcome here and thanks. What do you think about the roof texture?

@ Sgt Pepper Brandon, thank you. Do you think the roof texture looks ok?

So, just a quick post. Yesterday, I played around with textures a bit, so I altered some of them in GIMP which is actually like PS, but free and came up with this roof texture. The edges are mostly darker than the rest of the sun-bleached texture- what do you think of it? Is it acceptable?

Starting to make 1:1 textures of the sidewalls now... wish me luck!

Aaron Graham · October 24, 2010

Thank You !!! I like the roof texture. Keep it up.

lucky7 · October 24, 2010

@ Aaron Graham lol you're welcome, glad you like the texture. Let's see what the others think about it...

A quick question:

Can anyone tell what are the things that I've circled in red? These are not there in bingmaps...

Thanks a lot in advance,

lucky7

Cockatoo · October 24, 2010

I think that roof texture is more than acceptable, it looks great.

You're away now... I can see this turning into a brilliant first BAT. You might actually want to consider making multiple versions of this and releasing them together in a pack, i.e. you could change the amount of floors, add different colours, try out different angles (rotated 30/45/60°) etc. Remember not to skimp on night lighting when the time comes too, that can really make the difference between a 4 star BAT and a 5 star BAT. Anyway, keep up the good work. I really am surprised by how much you've managed to improve your building since I was last here.

EDIT: At a guess I'd say those are probably big air-conditioning units. Just look around for some generic roof junk, it doesn't have to be perfect as long as it fits with the general style of the building.

PBGV103 · October 24, 2010

Looks great so far! If you're still wondering about those objects you pointed out earlier, they appear to be mobile braces for window washing platforms. It looks like they help brace a steel cables that are anchored to the center of the roof and hold up the platforms when they are in use. Here's a picture from bing:

I love cockatoo's idea about making several versions. In RL, as you've probably noticed, they are in five groups of three, and one building in each group has a large water tower on top in addition to the usual roof stuff. By adding the water tower and changing minor details, ie., stuff on the roofs and night lights, you could easily come up with all 15 buildings and realease them in a pack. Also, the buildings orientations are mostly the same with a few rotated 90 degrees, so you wouldn't need to worry so much about coming up with good angles. I think this project of your's has huge potential! Keep up the great work!

gio10469 · October 24, 2010

To answer your question Rene, a few years ago they began repairs on many of the buildings as well as on the surrounding parking structures. If I remember correctly they were doing brick work on the towers and structurally stabilizing the parking garages. Most of this stuff is probably gone by now so i think it's safe to leave it out of your model.

T Wrecks · October 25, 2010

The roof texture looks really grimy and dirty - and that's not a bad thing! All in all, I think you have done a really great job with it, especially for a first attempt! You chose the right way to make something instead of looking for a texture to slap it onto the roof. My only suggestion would be to make

Sgt Pepper · October 26, 2010

That is a *beautiful roof texture. Perfect for the building.

lucky7 · October 26, 2010

@ Cockatoo-210893 *Sigh of relief* thank you! I was somehow concerned...

As for the multiple versions: well, I announced it in my CJ, not here, that there's going to be

another version with the huge camouflaged water tower, plus both versions altered,

therefore having small windows on the small sidewalls next to the balconies (which are

already modelled but neither in place nor textured...).

Oh, yes, nightlighting - I am somehow afraid of this as well as of the window textures...

But, maybe, it isn't that frightening (I do hope so) - lol I seem to be a fast learner relying

on trial and error which is not so efficient, I know, but the best working method for me, even,

if it takes longer than well-proved methods Thanks for the compliments, btw

As for the mysterious roof-thingies: I guess PBGV103 and gio10469 had the right

guess...

@ PBGV103 Thanks for the hint! To tell the truth, I haven't seen them in bing, because I had looked at a

different trio... well...

As for the different versions: please refer to my reply to Cockatoo as I had really forgotten to

mention it here before. Concerning the angles: I don't plan to rotate these (except of 90° as I

am really fine with how they will be. Finally, I these will be part of the 'Ultimate Coop-City Update'

and the road angles have been slightly adjusted to 90°

@ gio10469 Thank you very much, Edwin, for the hint! This is very helpful. I guess I might keep one or two

structures, although not 'in action' but somewhere on the roof as seen in my ' ? pic'. They should

look good on one version of the towers.

Another question as you are Bronxite: I have noticed that there are wall structures behind the pillars of

some buildings. I know that these contain shops, but I am unable to find a floorplan of the ground

not to mention blueprints of the buildings themselves. What IS IT on the groundfloors, or, how are

these floors structured? Also, there have to be staircases and elevators somewhere, but these are

not of any importance as you don't see them in the game anyways. 'The walls behind the pillars' is

the current big question. lol I would go there to see if I wouldn't live on the other side of the Atlantic..

@ T Wrecks lol Danke! Ich war schon besorgt, dass die Textur nicht passt... ist ja als Anfänger nicht so einfach

Ja, ich habe mir auch schon gedacht, dass die Übergange etwas zu abrupt sind- ich muss schauen,

wie das Gebäude dann fertig aussieht, um dann noch etwas flott zu ändern.

Mhm, nein, sind keine Aussenmauern, sondern umlaufende Metallplatten. Auf den neuen Bildern

sieht man die Stützen dafür.

Was die - zu anfangs - undefinierten Dinge am Dach betrifft: schau' was ich vorher geschrieben

habe- ich werde auf eine Version Reste dieser Halterungen bauen, und das reicht, glaub' ich.

Translat.: lol Thank you! I have been concerned that the texture wouldn't fit... not so easy for a rookie

Well, I have been thinking that the transitions might be to abrupt- I will have to see how the finished

building will look like, in order to finally change some textures.

Uhm, no, these are not parapets, but metal plates along the entire roof- if you look closely you can see

its' pillars on the new pics.

Concerning the previously undefined roof-junk: please, refer to previous replies- there will be some

remaining on one building version only, this should be enough.

@ Sgt Pepper Thank you, Brandon, a PM will be following, soon...

So, here we go with the completed roof. The building on the top has only partially been textured yet, I am still messing around with the 1:1 sizes (YES!!!!). See the vents and the small pillars for the metal 'gangway' ?

Zoomed out with the textured sills of the top structure:

What do you think so far?

Comments and suggestions are very welcome,

take care everyone,

lucky7

lucky7 · October 26, 2010