simmars-forum-threads Utilities Buildings

[GouRou 2]

another question (it deserves another post https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/22.gif>) are we going to consider our mars colony to be energy rich? it seems to sound like it, everything proposed for creating oxygen and getting water, and just plain living is going to require an insane amount of energy, so are we going to design with the theory in mind that we will have power plants capable of keeping up? million megawatt monsters?

[Chappington 131]

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On 3/7/2004 10:20:05 AM deanej wrote:Here's an idea for types of Power Plants:

Microwave Power

Hydrogen Power

Garbage to Power Converter

Available in 2120

Fusion Reactor

Available in 2245

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One problem, Hydrogen Power IS Fusion, as Fusion fuses hydrogen together. Also, why would the Garbage to Power be available in 2120? The technology is available now (If you mean burning the trash and producing power).

[Hirachi_Dinavo 0]

For nitrogen, it has to come from Earth's atmosphere. The only pupose of it is to dilute the air so there isn't too much oxygen. So the same nitrogen would stay in the buildings, while oxygen and CO2 are converted over and over again.

[toroca 160]

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On 3/7/2004 10:35:40 AM Splime wrote: One problem, Hydrogen Power IS Fusion, as Fusion fuses hydrogen together. Also, why would the Garbage to Power be available in 2120? The technology is available now (If you mean burning the trash and producing power).

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Depends on what was menat by Hydrogen Power.  Burning hydrogen isn't the same thing as fusion, and that's what people talk about when you hear of things like hydrogen fuel cells.  They're not referring to fusion, they're referring to burning the hydrogen.

As for waste disposal, I think Thermal Depolymerization, which was mentioned early in this thread, is the best choice.  What better way is there to get rid of trash than to recycle 100% of it into useable materials?  That's what TDP is all about...

[gozman99 0]

As of now, garbage is called 'Solid Waste'

[GouRou 2]

thnx for the support on TDP toroca

liquid wastes *makes a face* can be easily seperated into solid waste and a liquid counterpart (nearly completely water). as for industrial wastes, I do believe TDP can handle most of those as well, pretty much anything aside from nuclear waste (cant remove the weak nuclear force). even medical wastes can be handled, a virus or germ cant survive in the enviroment that breaks even metals back into their constinuent ingredients. I'm working right now on finding out what we can and cant remove from the game. I would like to be able to remove landfills and other things, as they would have no use on mars. if we can convert a landfill's effects, like pollution, over to something desireable, we might be able to rework it into something useful, but right now I simply aim to remove them.

[deanej 2]

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On 3/7/2004 10:35:40 AM Splime wrote:

----------------

On 3/7/2004 10:20:05 AM deanej wrote:Here's an idea for types of Power Plants:

Microwave Power

Hydrogen Power

Garbage to Power Converter

Available in 2120

Fusion Reactor

Available in 2245

----------------

One problem, Hydrogen Power IS Fusion, as Fusion fuses hydrogen together. Also, why would the Garbage to Power be available in 2120? The technology is available now (If you mean burning the trash and producing power).
----------------

Fusion Reactors would be a more compact, less costly version of the Hydrogen Plant, but producing less power due to inefficencies that allow it to take up less space and cost less. And the Garbage to Power Converter is not burning the Garbage, but rather transforming it into energy the city can use. It would be costly, and not able to produce much power even with its astronimacal garbage capacity.

[GouRou 2]

if you can tell us how it converts it, we'll make it. the utilities section will be bounded by reality, so anything in here needs to be something that can actually happen in the timeframe specified.

[durcsaw 4]

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On 3/7/2004 10:35:40 AM Splime wrote:

----------------

On 3/7/2004 10:20:05 AM deanej wrote:Here's an idea for types of Power Plants:

Microwave Power

Hydrogen Power

Garbage to Power Converter

Available in 2120

Fusion Reactor

Available in 2245

----------------

One problem, Hydrogen Power IS Fusion, as Fusion fuses hydrogen together. Also, why would the Garbage to Power be available in 2120? The technology is available now (If you mean burning the trash and producing power).

----------------

Fussion is something that is said to be quite close, within 60 years. I WON'T BE DEAD, HAHA! And GouRou menssioned a stuff-to-fuel machine that I've heard much about.

https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/16.gif width=16>

If I find any info on this I'll post the prossess and some pics of the accual machine.

[Vatt3 8]

Nitrogen will be our problem. Mars has an atmosphere of 2.6% Nitrogen, so chances are, it will have to be shipped in. I found an interesting page about how a Mars Colony may work:

http://homer.hcrhs.k12.nj.us/sol/physics/o_humanmars.html

There's an interesting diagram there also. Our Martian cities must have Oxygen, Power, and Water of all things. I believe those should be our utilities. The problem is that we can only have two. One may have to be an internal supply within each building.

[jbbry232 87]

here's my take on Simguyuk's rough sketch, i had to make some alterations based on what i thought would fit and looks good.

 

The water splitter is below ground.. i just couldn't get a dome to look good w/ everything else that was on here.

 

This is just beta form, no textures yet.. just a grey model

[gozman99 0]

wow, great, I always imagined that the algae tanks would look more like cylinders with rounded tops, keep up the good work!

[GouRou 2]

I GOT IT!! the solution to the nitrogen problem!!
a simple spark in the chat and I got it. we wont import nitrogen, no way no how, this is a self sustaining colony, nothin comes from earth. so how do we get nitrogen?! you ask dont you?! I know you do!!! we FUSE IT!!! a fusion reactor can take hydrogen and create helium, so we'll take the helium and refuse it, then we'll take lithium and fuse it, and then the beryllium and fuse it, then boron, then carbon, then we have..NITROGEN!!! and in fact, if we take carbonaceous waste, we can turn it into nitrogen directly and save our hydrogen for later... whatya guys think?! whatya think?!!!

[gozman99 0]

I think, GouRou, that after that last post we need to take a good look at the periodic table of the elements, so HERE IT IS!

http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/courses/gladney/mathphys/images/periodic_table.gif border=0>

[jbbry232 87]

sounds good to me.. i guess your gunna need a fusion plant now...  i will see what i can do..

 

 

[GouRou 2]

IN FACT!!! *bounces around the edit box* we could fuse for Aluminum, Argon, Calcium, Chlorine, Neon, TITANIUM!!... it's beautiful, we'll need a HUGE bank of reactors to step up production, but it's doable!!

[gozman99 0]

Listen, why don't we just genetically engineer algae for nitrogen production? that way, we won't require fifteen structures to make a sustainable atmosphere, just one algal atmosphere production facility. We can fuse for other things, or mine for them.

[Vatt3 8]

It wouldn't require that many structures. Maybe a complex. Every city would have to have it though so it could be bundled with a power plant since powerplants are definately needed in a city. I picture everything being built around a massive Environment Complex where all life sustaining components are produced.

[GouRou 2]

we cant gen modify for a plant to create something that isnt already there, a plant makes O by cracking it from CO2

[GouRou 2]

vatt3, we are working on having a single building that is required to be plopped at the beginning of the game, that should solve a lot of these sticky problems

[gozman99 0]

I know, I know...

[PhantomOwl 3]

Hello, once again.

I think that it is time to say that, unfortunately, i asked my chem teacher and she said that it isnt feasable to fuse atoms to construct larger elements because it usually involves a LARGE explosion.

Infact, a year or so back, a group of scientists fused two hydrogen atoms and the explosion (with just the two) released enough energy to power the entire eastern seaboard for a decade or so...
only there wasnt any way to harvest it...

I do understand, however that frozen nitrogen is abundant in the solar system and that if we could feasably send colonists to mars we could go to where all this nitrogen is and bring it to mars...

P.S. did anyone read my previous post?
It seams tha no-one recognised that we could use windmills for power...
Oh well...

[gozman99 0]

At this point, windmills seem teh best option, unlike solar, as the huge clouds will block out the sun. However, the discussion is currently centered on creating an atmosphere for the colony. I think this should entiirely replace water, as most things will be 'dry'.

[PhantomOwl 3]

Thanks Gozman! Somebody actually acknowledged my post! I feel happy!!!
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[Vatt3 8]

Well I see what you're saying Phantom, but if that much energy was released, then you see our point. Fusion power is the main source of power in a Mars colony since it releases so much energy. In 50 years this technology will be much cheaper and pheasable.

Nitrogen is rich in comets and frozen chunks in the Solar system. There may be ways of capturing some of these for nitrogen, but fusing into it, if possible, would be much easier.

[PhantomOwl 3]

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On 3/7/2004 10:20:29 PM Vatt3 wrote:

....

Nitrogen is rich in comets and frozen chunks in the Solar system. There may be ways of 'capturing' some of these for nitrogen, but fusing into it, if possible, would be much easier.----------------

I know what you are saying, but you fail to realise that
after the fusion there would be no nitrogen....
there would be electrons and protons and neutrons hundreds if not
thousands of kilometers apart from each other.
generally if there is aa big explosion, things
get pushed OUT...
and pluss, if the result would stay put, the magnetic shielding from
the explosion would consume so much energy and the process would be
TEDIUS and ineficiant! lets just say it takes an hous to line everything up and make the explosion (that is a VERY optimistic time
frame)
24 molecules would be produced a day!
lets just leave the construction of atoms to the big guy up there.

[Minotaur420 2]

Ok, it's definately completely ridiculous to think that you could fuse to make whatever elements you want. As mentioned, each fusion reaction produces one molecule, and is extremely hard/expensive/long to set up and produces a lot of energy (hence using fusion to supply energy)

 

And you can't exactly grab a comet out of space and bring it to mars. (they're hurtling along at many many tens if not hundreds of thousands of miles per hour)

And I'm not exactly sure about what kind of wind there is on Mars, but with such low air pressure, there might not be much wind, or at least not strong wind, which means the wind mill turbines would not get moved very well. Nuclear or fusion reactor power plants are by far the best solution for providing energy.

 

Sorry I cannot think of a way to provide nitrogen other than shipping it from earth, which would itself be very innefficient and costly, but most feasible so far.

[GouRou 2]

you guys are thinking like skeptics without a clue, hehe.

it's doable, our friend farther up is thinking of explosion in a very normal sense, I am thinking of it in a pressure vessel, why would they be so far apart? also, he's thinking of fission, blowing them up, not fusion, combining them. I said we will need banks of reactors, all we need is a supply of hydrogen to keep it running. I have no math, but for the sake of the game, we will say that our main 'base' will supply all nitrogen and metals required for contrstuction, the rest will come from mars itself.

[Carpman 0]

Bah, I reckon you are getting too much science into all this. It's a game, for goodness sake...

[Griff 0]

I think our options should be to have solar feilds (the largest plant in area & the most inefficient), an old-fashoined fission plant (for the poor cities), a microwave station (only if your region is creating a certain number of industrial jobs, as Mars industrial facilities will be predominately mining, hi-tech manufacturing, genetic engineering, & agriculture.), a fusion plant (requires similar requirments as the microwave plant, only larger.), plus you have the choice to have structures provide thier own power by fuel cells if you really don't want to spend money on power plants.
The water supply would either have to be from melting down portions of the icecap, or combining extracted oxygen from the atmosphere with hydrogen.
Oxygen production would be by plants (the living kind) within the structures.