simmars-forum-threads Sim Mars, a SC4 Conversion

[gshmails 534]

This project is a great idea and I would be happy to help if I can.  I am a lot/bat builder and am willing to do whatever is asked of me in terms of design and build.

 

In terms of ideas, the first thing that hit me when I read the post was Futurama.  The people move in high speed tubes between buildings.  This could replace cars, trains, or subways.  The cities could be contained inside large domes with air, water, and power inside.  This would allow a close to simcity interior city with outer suburbs of individual units.  If this is a human inhabited Mars, then it could have alot of the similar characteristics of earth cities, ie - crowded and overbuilt, with areas of natural beauty and sparse population. 

 

Many more ideas will hit me as I think about this, but I love the idea.  If there is anything I can do let me know.

[guinea 29]

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On 3/3/2004 7:27:54 PM SimMaster wrote:

SM Idea #1: Martain Dust Storms!

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good idea im sure its possible to mod tornaodoes so they are wider and the same colour as the terrain

[JoshuaC 8]

Maybe we can Get help from teirusu for the Matian landscape since he's good at making those great snow mods.

[durcsaw 4]

arse holes, damn.

[ApathyNinja 17]

I remember the mars landing strips in X-Plane, they would be at least as long as a medium map. Of course, they had redundant arresting systems and such, but still a huge structure.

I still love the idea of dome structures, they're futuristic in a chintzy sort of way. But how can we introduce variety into them?

[Alrowan 0]

has anyone here read the mars trilogy by Kim Stanly Robinson?

 

i think we could work more on a level like in the book for ideas, and then tweak them for our own orriginality.

 

some of the more interesting ideas that came from the book to me is the concept of terraforming, where they were basically going all out to create a more terran mars int he way of ecology, this goes from things like the thickening of the atmosphere to the extraction of water. ill basically jot down ideas for buildings and such below as they could be used in sim city4

 

Industry would consider primarily of the mining of raw materials, and processing them to be exported to earth or to be manufactured into other goods. Other industries would involve terraforming mars itself.

 

So for a basic breakdown of industries

Ag industry - will conver to the harvesting of raw materials, basically large plots of land with mines, mechanical harvesters, sorting through the regolith, ejecta and all the other metals.

I$ - This would become the basics for living, greenhouses, things like that

I$$ - Manufacturing, where the raw goods would go, get processed for martian needs

I$$$ - Terraforming, this is the big one, lots of investment, lots of rewards, big terraforming projects, like Heat Plants, bio-Chemestry Labs (for the creation of martian adaptable life forms), just a whole lot of things like that.

 

NB - most idustry buildings would be un-domed

 

Next step would be commercial, these would remain basically similar to what we have, but new buildings. When it gets to Commercial offices though, we could use CO$$$ buildings to be the bases of the big companies and countries that have invested in mars. If we are going for the dome looks, these buildings would actually look more like skyscrapers, but with that martian feel to it

 

Lastly would be the Residentual lots, and these would basically be similar to SC4, but perhaps more like:

 

R$ - These would house basic labourers for the factories/extraction farms, obviously the lowest jobs on mars, basically domed resedencies, nothing too fancy

R$$ - Home to scientists and clerks, basically those who work in the I$$$ and CS/CO

R$$$ - Home to the big heads of multinational companies, Govt reps, the lot. Also head scientists. Workin the CO$$$ and the I$$$

 

when we move onto infrastructure, we already have some good basics.

 

here are some of my ideas though

 

-Replace power plants with Life Support Plants, these would offer the nessesary products to the martian towns via some form of pipeline with other things like power running along with them.

-Replace Water pumps and such with water extraction plants, from a basic permafrost melter to a big Aquifir Miner

-Garbage would now be all recycled, its the future here, and all things manufactured can be re-manufactured, so we convert dumps/recyling centers to garbage storage stations (dumps) and remanufactuaries (recycling centers/garbage-power plants)

 

-Roads would stay similar if going with the whole domed buildings idea, remember there is bassalt and other volcanic rocks on mars, so roads are likely to be black if paved, or pinkish if concrete.

-Rail could be converted to just high-speed monorails for passengers, and make normal rail industry only, transport for those raw materials.

-Ariports would stay roughly the same, though planes would need to change, planes or gliders would be a very useful form of transport on mars begause of the low gravity

-Subways would remain, though i think all buildings, well mjor ones would need to have personal subway stations

 

now as far as other buildings go, well you could go with a Space Elevator - this is basically a giant cable, with transports running up and down it, it makes interplanetary travel much cheaper, maybe it could replace the international airports

 

next thing would be mechanics.

 

the first thing i would change is pollution, and instead of making it undesirable, make it highly desirable, air polution = thickening atmosphere = greenhouse gasses = warming, something all martians will want. Pollution =  YES PLEASE!

 

next thing could be terraforming instead of land value/desirability, the more terraformed a place is (or with more terraforming plants) the more people will want to live there. This would mean new landmarks that add to the terraforming Value of an area.

One idea from the books would be a Mohole. basically a giant deep deep hole in the ground that utilises the higher temperatures nearer the core or mantle of Mars.

[Pegasus 2,814]

I think this is a marvelous idea that stands a good chance of success if undertaken realisticly. Offhand, I can think of two vitally important items required to make it happen.


1. For all the wonderful ideas that have been contributed, stay focused on what's possible. Essentially, if its not in the game right now... its not gonna happen. This project would not be about rewriting the game and/or adding new cool features that don't alredsy exist. It would be a graphic do-over and not much more.

Modding will allow 'alterations' to many exisiting game mechanics. But the underlying game engine is still SC4 and its gonna have to play like SC4... including those Non-Martian aspects of the game that can't be changed.


2. I think the smartest move is to identify all the 'under-the-hood' mechanics and game play attributes that would need to be changed... and determine if the required/desired changes are possible. (Feasibility Study!!) These are the potential show-stoppers and it could take only one to bring the entire effort to halt. In makes little sense to pound out a ton of new BAT models unless/until the feasibility of the project has been confirmed.


3. (ok, so I can't count) A very major chunk of the game is dedicated to the vehicle traffic and constructing the traffic network. In fact, the game would be very boring without it... and, of course, almost all lots have to be connected to the network to function.

Don't discount it by moving it all underground. I believe the best result would be to retain all the existing roadways and vehicles, upgraded in appearance, of course. Ideally, (in my opinion) roadways would become large tubes connecting all the various structures, which would allow the exiting pedestrian automata to function, but I have doubts about the feasibility of that.

[DRoseDARs 0]

Just wanted to put my two cents in. This is an excellent idea, though I agree that at most it'll consist almost entirely of graphical changes. As Peg pointed out, if it ain't already in the game mechanics, it ain't gonna be (unless there's additional expansion packs forthcoming... ).

As far as Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series, I would suggest that that be the common frame of reference that people use for this project. Robinson did a lot of reasearch into the subject since he was trying to go for a realistic interpretation of what the future might bring for exploration and eventual colonization of Mars. Later books start getting a little more interpretive and less realistic (

Author:
Kim Stanley Robinson

In proper reading order (In published order):
Anarctica (5th book, Prequel)
Red Mars (1st book, Main series)
Green Mars (2nd book, Main series)
Blue Mars (3rd book, Main series)
The Martians (4th book, Sequel)

[DRoseDARs 0]

Space elevators (just the cables) in KSR's books were only 10 meters in diameter, so slightly under 2/3's of one tile wide (16x16 meters square). If someone makes a airport out of this, I'd advise the lot be no smaller than 9x9 with the cable at center. This would provide the minimum space for support facilities for the cable.

Moholes would be interesting, but I'm not certain they'd be practical in-game. They are several kilometers in diameter and may fill almost all of a large city square. A city you try to build in the same square wouldn't benefit very greatly from any desirability level you give the mohole, due to the limited space for population. If we could make lots that had more than 4 sides, then'd we could free up space in the corners of the city square. But we can't, so this idea will be limited no matter what.

[GouRou 2]

We gotta keep focused guys, I've layed down what will be what, we're going for a graphical change, not a complete overhaul. to change the roads to tubes wouldnt be much fun, where would our traffic go?! we'd have to remove all of the vehicles, not much fun there. there wont be any showstoppers pegasus, anything that is out of the ordinary will just have to stay a problem, the overall project itself will continue. I've outlined the direction we need to go in, I know a few of you have your own ideas, but they arent realistic. I dont want to make a fantasy sim mars! I want to make a realistic one. that's why maxis never released a futuristic tile set, they are trying to keep it in reality, that's what I want also.

as for the domes, be creative, it doesnt have to be a dome, any simple to construct building will work as well. mars is dim, you need a much larger window to get the same amount of light, therefore a dome is optimum, but not required, anything else that looks good, and looks proper can be built too.

[MrCinatit 30]

not sure if this has been discussed yet, but will this have custom regions, or premade martian regions. personally, i would prefer real regions, as terraforming such a region realistically would be difficult.

plus, my mouth waters every time i think of seeing Olympus Mons in SimCity 4.

if the regions are premade, they should (of course) be to scale. plus, i think it would be very cool to have Spirit, Opportunity, Pathfinder and the Viking crafts placed on that landscape as sort of an Easter Egg. place them where they actually are on the Martian surface, but don't make their locations obvious in-game. when they are discovered by Martian archeologists, they could have a great landmark/reward effect. (just suspend belief a little bit - yeah, we know exactly where those crafts are, but lets just pretend this is being done in the distant future. by morons with no sense of history. yeah, this could involve a bit of programming, but would be worth it IMO.

[GouRou 2]

they would be little more than pixelated blurs, hehe. flamesrock and... YOU are our region specialists, so do what you think best.

[Equinox 1,209]

Olympus Mons and surrounding area are already on the LEX, I thought ... but perhaps not.

[Carpman 0]

Music could also be changed to something suitably Mars-like *Gets out Sonic Forge*. Then again, some of the existing music could be suitable.

[GouRou 2]

Carpman, if your good with music, see what you can do, maybe a few mars tracks mixed in, would give everything a good theme. We also need to sort through all of the sounds, as not all of them will be appropriate, cars probably wont have horns on mars, as sound barely carries, so we'll need to come up with some radio gear sounds, suit to suit communications mostly.

[Carpman 0]

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On 3/4/2004 10:09:52 AM GouRou wrote:

Carpman, if your good with music, see what you can do, maybe a few mars tracks mixed in, would give everything a good theme. We also need to sort through all of the sounds, as not all of them will be appropriate, cars probably wont have horns on mars, as sound barely carries, so we'll need to come up with some radio gear sounds, suit to suit communications mostly.

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Will do

Sound effects I'll make fine, radio sounds shouldn't be too hard to make, and a few lasers, etc.

As for music, should be able to perform some wily editing and so forth.

[MrVegetable 2]

Uh, how about a teleporter so as to teleport materials to and from Mars? Would be a utility. There would be no way of having water systems either as there is no water there! I would be happy to give Utility ideas at any time when I ain't at school.

[GouRou 2]

I have been doing my own thinking, I have come up with a few more ground rules, and I've decided on a few undecideds.

 

We will have teraforming machines, they will be moral boosters, but they will be the costliest buildings in the game, their building cost will be low, but their monthly cost will be exceptional, and they will pollute in the old sense, sims wont like them, because they will make their windows dirty, foul the air, etc, but overall morale will go up, even if people dont want to live near them.

 

streets will be dirt paths, they will be the cheapest, and will have NO monthly cost, none, zero. roads will be paved, and will have only a tiny monthly cost, as they wont get eroded by rain and ice on mars, but will have better traction, so will allow higher speeds and congestion. one way roads will stay one way roads, but avenues need to be upgraded.. to something, not sure what, not tubes! it would make little sense for a vehicle to enter a tube like that.

trains will be mag lev, it's a beutiful idea, the monorails will stay monorails, but maybe can be given a more high speed facelift, bullet trains on a tiny rail, the rail can be slimmed down because it has less weight to support

 

we will have subways, we will recreate them mars style, they will be cool, fear not.

 

airports become spaceports, simple as that, we'll find a way.

 

we are starting in the year 2050, all R$, C$, I$, stage 1, will be 2050's era, such as the plain dirt roads, and simple domes, it will be low cost construction, survival.

 

as time goes on, we'll move up to 2100, our resources for R$$, C$$, I$$ will have grown, and we'll be up to stage 3 and 4, larger buildings, so we can be more fancy, we can have flights of fancy

 

2150, we will have a huge technology base, we will be propserous, we can do R$$$, C$$$, and I$$$, and stage 8's of anything we can image, if it can be physically built on mars, we can have it.

 

follow those guidelines to make anything you wish. keep in mind the economics of what we're doing. the lowliest buildings of the R$ will be shipped from earth, or made with very crude machines, be very cheap, just think.

 

this isnt futurama, if you create something very stylish, very exotic, make it very expensive, and very late in the gaming experience. survival comes first, once things prosper, than they get the goodies, but I wont put a cap on the goodies. if someone wants to make tube roads, you are welcome to, I will try to find a way to have it an addon expansion mod for this conversion, but be warned, it wont be in there by default.

[GouRou 2]

mrvegetable, there is water on mars, in the poles, you just have to know how to get to it, same as with the oil on earth, oil doesnt pool at your feet for you to reach down, scoop up, and put in your car, you gotta get to it.

 

for utilites

water - small: deep drilling rigs to extract ice, and purify it

water - big: condensors on the deep drilling rigs.

water - huge: an icy comet insertion program to smash ice into mars, expensive, tens of thousands of simoleans a month

 

power: heh, you tell me, we have solar, we have nuclear, hydrogen, coal and oil we cant have, seein as there wont be any, but everything else is up for grabs, btw, windmills will need to be 10 times larger.

 

air: this will take some thinking, but I think a standalone plant can be created, for people to simply go and pick up the air, I dont think we can make it a requirement, but we can use it to defeat polution, aka, fouled interior air

 

trash will be recycled, and then processed back into air and goods for selling, there will be no landfill as there is today, that will be reworked in the months to come.

 

fire, police, hospitals, schools, will all be marsenised, it will take time, but we have lots of creativity here

 

seaports will stay sea ports, we will change the boats to hovercrafts that use the ice to speed up transportation across mars.

 

all of that is what I have come up with, things can be bent, but those are the guidelines I'd like us to all follow for right now. we arent doing a sim mars, new game, we are doing a facelift, we have to bend the game a bit to make it work, but that's as far as this is going.

[Arphaxad Locus 0]

I just remembered something that might be great for inspiration and for buildings. Remember how in Sim City 2000 there was a futuristic building set? We could rebuild a lot of those buildings with the BAT. And I'm really trying to learn how to use it; I am making progress. I hope to remake a lot of SC2000 space buildings. It will be tough.

[GouRou 2]

if you build it, they will come.

 

we will need aircraft even on mars, I need very creative people to come up with air vehicles that will work on mars, remember lower gravity, 1/3 the norm, but near vacuum, planes will work, but they require 10 times the wing area for the same lift, even with the reduced gravity, see what you can come up with.

[MrVegetable 2]

Okay then. I was wrong about water and we could melt the ice. Soalr power will be very useful. How about a plant that can convert the iron like substance into power (Not the rock. Apparently you can find some sort of iron on Mars)?

What about sanitation? Wouldn't the low gravity send it flying? Then again, we could have a solar powered waste-to-energy plant.

Transportation, we could have silver roads with small walls to show the sides of the road. This could be an expensive road or something. Also that would mean sidewalks would need to be elevated up from the pavement but we should have hover-cars so that would work well.

This must be my longest post ever on ST.https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/9.gif>

[Simguyuk 0]

Hi, I'm back, what did I miss?(thats the problem with being in a different timezone) Does anyone know how to do the ehings we are suggesting? I dont want to be pessimistic or anything though.

[guinea 29]

for the aircraft we could use a cargo ship like this one

http://www.earthandbeyond.ea.com/content/game_info/ships/class.t_trade.jpg width=555 border=0>

ive got other ideas witch i will post in my thread

 

[GouRou 2]

I personally have a pretty good idea of what can and cant, will and wont be done, but I wont say any of it yet, there is no point in putting a crimp in anyone's dreams. you'll just have to wait and see what makes the cut.

[Simguyuk 0]

okay, i've got a couple of new ideas (see new attachment) should I try and take down the ideas I see on this thread (welll as much as I am able) and make it a note pad file?
EDIT: Whoops. forhet attachment for now.

[GouRou 2]

no, anything posted here I am compiling personally.

[rahommer 0]

* Salutes *

I am in.  (Although I am not very talented, I can offer ideas, testing, and enthusiasm - Wahooooooo!!!!!!)

 

How about translucent tubes?  Alien disasters (alien bot attack, loss of oxygen, cosmic radiation burst)?  Mining company reward (huge quarry with big payback but pollution(?) - gee, what is Mars pollution like?  I think radiation will play a key role)?

 

After I finished Birmingham, I was planning to do a Mars region using the map from Rebel13, and whatever futuristic lots I could find....looks like I should wait now!

[Smurfer2 7]

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On 3/4/2004 2:23:42 PM rahommer wrote:

* Salutes *

I am

in

.  (Although I am not very talented, I can offer ideas, testing, and

enthusiasm

-

Wahooooooo!!!!!!)

 

How about translucent tubes?  Alien disasters (alien bot attack, loss of oxygen, cosmic radiation burst)?  Mining company reward (huge quarry with big payback but pollution(?) - gee, what is Mars pollution like?  I think radiation will play a key role)?

 

After I finished Birmingham, I was planning to do a Mars region using the map from Rebel13, and whatever futuristic lots I could find....looks like I should wait now!

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Pollution on Mars? I doubt it, because there isn't much of an atmosphere to hold it in like Earth. Here's a good disaster, Wind Storm!

[jeeper 14]

This is either gonna be a big waste of time, or a huge success.

 

We shall see...