nybt-forum-threads NYBT BAT Thread

[halo1dragon 10]

any progress on 250 broadway sgt?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Heres a render image, the problem is the hight, its a little short. On the Timpson PL Apartments I have change roof. I hope you guys like it.

[Jumpthefence 74]

Replies:

Aaron: If we had a sense of what lot you'd like to put the new apartments on, it might help. Do you want to do another 3x2 lot that's W2W? If that's the case then maybe you can't scale. Or do you have another lot size in mind? Also, have you scaled the building up 133%, specifically in that preview? One more thing: the fire escapes look a bit to low on the new building. Try shifting them up a meter or so. After all, it not only looks odd, but we don't want someone breaking an ankle while running away from a fire!

Brandon: That industrial BAT? It was for a City Journal that will never be made, so I have no idea when, or if, it will ever see the light of day. The situation is a bit complicated, although I think I'll just finish it and upload sometime in coming months. *shrugs*

As usual, I'll accompany a BAT for your viewing pleasure, though my progress in the last few days has been very little.

At the moment, the building could be uploaded. Would I want to? No, I would not. The base level is prettymuch done, and the roof is prettymuch done, but the center floors look too uniform for me. A SC4 skyscraper is like a Twinkie: there are parts around the edges that are fine to look at, but no one wants it without the center. Wow, that's about as philosophical as I'll get today...

So I'm going to add some blinds, some odd colored windows to throw in there, maybe a surprise or two.

Meanwhile, you're going to comment on the rest of the building. How did the vegetation come out? Does it look too obvious that I used an incredibly simple texture trick? What should I do to liven up that courtyard area? Can you possibly find the Sim I tried making, and even though he came out to 2.25 meters high, is still difficult to see?

I'll talk to everyone again tomorrow; I won't be home between 9AM and 9PM today.

Burgulars take note: My brother will be home.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

What an interesting building! It looks like the topmost row of windows is totally, or almost totally, fake.

The vegatation came out nicely, I think. Most importantly, it's not totally overdone or oversaturated, like in so many cases. I can't really say that I'm a big fan of the two different floor textures in the entrance area, though.

Concerning the windows, they are a bit dull, but I see from reference shots that there is not much difference between the window panes and the horizontal elements between them. Maybe slightly livelier and busier reflections will help? However, in this case you'll have to add some more variety to the texture between the windows as well, because it appears that these surfaces are almost as reflective as the windows themselves.

On another note, comparing your BAT with photos I saw I have the impression that the vertical elements are much more dominant on the real-life building than on your rendition of it. I noticed that the contrast between those vertical columns and the rest of the building could be increased. Likewise, the columns on your BAT could be thicker (especially at the corners of the building, where the columns of your BAT are thinnest, while in real life they are thickest there), and they don't seem to have the correct shape. The originals seem to feature trapezoid cross-section, with the thinner end towards the outside, so that the sides taper outwards until they reach the recessed window sections. Your columns look like they have a rectangular cross-section. The same is valid for that horizontal part above the ground floor. Besides, the columns also seem to protrude much further than on your BAT.

If all these features are already taken into account in your BAT, you might consider exaggerating them slightly to make sure they get noticed.

[Evillions 552]

Originally posted by: SimFox

Evillions:

I think you should get it right. If you want to really continue to BAT that is. Cause if you will kepp staring new ones, getting it wrong, dropping it and starting new building and repeating the cycle...

In this particular case given how small and simple the building it would be prodent to start from clean slate. But do what SimHotToDDy suggested to you  - start with creating simple sketch with numbers. Measure in Google Earth overall dimensions of the building and create the box that would represent it - that is you sizer. Convert it to Editable poly and start subdividing. This way you would know that you'll not go wrong with overall dimensions, plus it would be easier to spot relative scale problems. But DO look at your source materials. Pay attentions where in relation of each other elements are.

quote>

So I have to keep on rescaling it, because I used the Google Earth method.  It worked pretty well when it comes to scaling!  I do have this question, how can I measure floors when I'm in street view?  Because it would help alot if I can.

-With the subdividing thing, it came up just a triangles when I'm in edit mesh.  THEN, if I move it backwards, it makes the 45 degree angle above what I've selected.  I wanted it to be a right angle, not a half of a raight angle.  Is there a tutorial on subdiving?

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Evillions: I say stick with what you know, not to say learning new methods isn't good. I still use the good old extruded spline method. It is ultimately up to you to decide how you model it, so whatever you are more comfortable with is best IMO.

when extrapolating dimensions form a reference, you need to make a few assumptions on things that are not overly obvious. Especially if you only have a street view image, the perspective of the picture might destroy any accuracy your measurements might have. In that case, you get what you can from it, and make educated guesses. For example: I know a window is Xm tall, and the space between the windows is half the height of a window then a floor must be Ym... and so forth. The skill of observation is much more difficult to master than simply entering numbers into software. You may need to constantly revise your assumptions as you realize one proportion does not match up with another, but this is why you make a sketch, something that you can adjust without any material loss.

I would also like to see the method of modeling Simfox is suggesting though, I'd love to know another way to make things.

[halo1dragon 10]

any more progress on 250 broadway?

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

Originally posted by: halo1dragon

any more progress on 250 broadway?quote>

Please stop, he'll post progress when he wants. Thanks.

[halo1dragon 10]

im just curious

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Patience. This thread is moving quickly enough not to warrant such behavior. Just wait and news will pop up in good time.

Or, if you still want to get your question in, say something constructive about the multitude of other work going on in this thread, and tack your question on the end.

[PBGV103 729]

Thanks SimFox, after your post I went back to make sure I had already done what you suggested above, and I had, but I also went in to program files and checked the security settings on th Autodesk folder itself. Apparently when you set security settings for a root folder in win 7, it doesn't always change those settings for the sub-folders. Now its time for a test export!

Edit: test export went nowhere.  I immediately recieved an error message that said "--Unable to convert: undefined to type: String"  any ideas?  this was followed by 3ds max opening about 100 pages of MAXscript logs.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Well, I haven't done much with 250 Broadway since it was last seen, I'm thinking I might start from scratch on it, having trouble getting some things right...

In the mean time, I started on this that I'll finish first-

This is Wall Street Plaza, in Lower Manhattan. I just started on it and there;s alot to do. I also just noticed part of the facade on the side wasn't added so I need to get to that. Low Quality Render by the way...The building is pretty simple, it really has no details(there's no mullions going down on the glass either), but it's still far from completion and I'm working on the facade. The lot size seems 3x5 for now...unless I rescale it some to fit a tighter lot space, though I probably shouldn't since it will look weird probably.

Also, GuerrilaWarfare PMed me about joining NYBT. I'm sure most of you seen Guerrila's promissing BAT Thread. So, assuming it's okay with the rest of NYBT, I'd like to officially welcome GuerrilaWarfare to the team.

EDIT: JTF- I think I see the sim you are talking about...the sim is infront of the flora at the base near the stairs on the right....right?

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

Thanks Sgt Pepper

Hey guys. I'm guessing mostly everyone here recognizes me, since I lurk (stalk) this thread, and comment every once in awhile

Well I know I'm not good, but I hope with some guidance I'll be BAT'ing top of the line bats like you guys do.

I do have one BAT I'm really enjoying working on, 1133 6th Avenue, that I've also shown on my Bat Thread, but I'm guessing it's okay if i post recent progress here.

I'm a bit of a slow BATer but a fast learner.

I need some help figuring out textureing, I know how to texture but every time It comes out in un-even on each sides.

 

 

[Evillions 552]

Don't texture anything just yet. Before you modeled EVERYTHING! Then you can texture and do your nightlights.

P.S.: My BAT of 88 Rivington Street is at best for scale because I used the Google Earth method and sized everything done to that certian size. After I finish it, I'll start 22 8th Ave. Just some type of sushi place is all. Nothing much.

[PBGV103 729]

GuerrilaWarfare - Glad to see your'e on the team! I think the Interchem buildingis a great choice. I'm not a very experience BATer, still, I've never fully understood the reasons for waiting until all the modelling is done to start on textures. When I work on repetitive buildings, I usually clone and paste upward, and having textures/materials already assigned saves time. Still, maybe it's not the best way to do it. I don't know enough to say anything definitive.

Edit:  SimFox - I believe the error in exporting was just me being an idiot again.  hahaha

Edit2: Thats affirmative, I should take the time to read before jumping into things.  Export of my first test model was a success! 

Edit3: now I'm having trouble with scale.  apparently 3ds max generic and gmax generic isn't the same because when I import the LODs to gmax they're tiny, and when i scale up the model in 3ds max and re-export the LODs to gmax, the LODs are the right size but I get error=6 when I try to render in 3ds max.  Back to the tutorials i guess.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

OK! GuerrilaWarfare, seems you've settled in.   Looking good so far!

I did some minor touches to part of the facade on Wall Street Plaza-

These are HQ Renders, I need to edit the whiteness of the facade texture and edit the glass a little. Oh and don't mind how some areas on the right back corner don't display shadows, I fixed it after the render. I had to re-fit the LODs and reset the cameras.

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

Guys I'm about half way done modeling my Building, I'm cluless to how to texture " the right way ", and night lighting, also I don't know how to do like glass and stuff for my window panes

Sgt Pepper. I want my windows to look sorta like the color of your 22 Cortlandt model, how did you make the windows and stuff.

I'm just about done for tonight.

[SimFox 801]

You have demonstrated quite an impressive start! Yet I would suggest no to rush and all that % completion estimates are just distracting (and imho quite wrong). Instead you better concentrate on getting it right. And the most important thing here is getting overall and relative proportions of the building - they are the language of architecture, after all. Particularly or modern (or true) architecture, where we have dispensed with all the sculptures and other fru-fru and return to basics/origin of this most noble of art forms.

Unfortunately right from the start you have made couple of mistakes in gaging relative proportions in the building.

The first one, I'd say crucial, since it sets the very rhythm of the facade:

all the columns marked with red  crosses( and consequently the "pillars" on the facade above) should be of equal width.

This is really the major flaw and should most definitely be corrected.

From your second image it is very difficult to see anything clear - you really should post preview renders, or, for example, the front viewport screen grab. Still it's clearly show the progress of the mistake I've outlined just above.

Vertical spacing... hm... it is difficult to judge, but from my estimates the whole window unit should be divided in 3, with 2 parts occupied by the window itself and 1 part by "interfloor space". the hight of this space is also roughly the width of the pillar

At ground level the proportions (marked by yellow) should be 2:1 eg the height of the "store" window should equal to the half of the hight of the column.

An analogy with drawing, say, head, could be very illustrative to the approach BATers should take in their work. While drawing said head one doesn't start by drawing nice looking eye, or nose, etc. You start Massing - eg you draw the ellipse that overall marks the size of your head. Then you draw the lines where eyes, tip of the nose, mouth, ears would be. Then you block eye - mark its width and hight ... Basically you go in steps from general to particular. It helps you to keep everything in line. Otherwise you can find that the eyes are way-way too big for the nose, or are too close to mouth etc, etc...

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

@SimFox, i already know all if this, and I am planning on fixing it. And about rendering, I don't know how to render.

[SimFox 801]

Good! here is a way how this could be sized, may be it could be useful for someone else:

Rendering - just click on the preview!

And I would very very much recommend to at least read through BATing tutorial on OMNIBUS. Scrall down till you see BAT Essentials.

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

I rendered it, I fear this is way to short ... Does anyone else thinks so ?

Also the black lines I have in my previous images aren't showing up, is that suppose to happen ?

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

If they are just splines, they may not render. You need to either extrude them or check the visible in render box. There other ways, no doubt, but if you didn't do anything to them, then they won't show up.

If you are using true-to-life vertical measurements, the renders will look rather short. You can either scale up your numbers as you model (I do it this way) or you can wait until you finish, then scale up 33%.

Just keep on looking at your reference images and study them the way Simfox has shown. If you can understand and work out the the proportions, then the model will follow shortly. The columns at the base (entrance) do not appear to be the same width as the above columns, this is the kind of issue that distances your recreation from the real building.

[halo1dragon 10]

guerllawarfare looking good

[Sgt Pepper 864]

GuerrilaWarfare- Todd and Simfox have said everything so I don't really know what else I could say about it. Follow their suggestions and tips and it will be perfect!

Okay, so I barely started on the base after editing the wall and glass textures...

1. Do I need to raise the base height again?

2. How's the glass texture?

Also, I added some entrance detail that's not done(its the green shape that you can see there) How's it looking so far?

[Darknono35 3,137]

Test One NY Plaza in SC4:

[PBGV103 729]

Wow darknono, that looks good to me. It would look even better in darknite though. I say try it out, you are using 3ds max, right?

[SimFox 801]

You glass texture is again way -way too dark. It is all but black. Mind you here you judge it against black background of the render - very bad idea. In game your general background will be much brighter and hence you building would appear darker still. I'd say keep some of the brighter tons of you current glass and use them as a dark base and make brighter detail on top of it.

The hight... hm... May be this will help:

Darknono35:

 you were showing preview renders from 3ds Max, yet you've exported it in GMAX... what's the story?

Also in addition to fawlty proportions your export shows problem with teh LightingRig in your GMAX:

[ozdaniel 4]

Wow Darknono35 , very nice work men !!! i'm verey happy to see this
when you are going to upload it ?

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Brandon:

1. Check your reference pictures, but I'm going to say yes because the 2nd floor is actually shorter in an attempt to make the 1st floor taller. Seems like it is like that on purpose.

2. much too dark/black. You will probably need to do something along the same lines as your 22 Cortlandt Street.

Darknono35: not bad, but you should take Simfox's advice on the facade. The way it is now does not translate well at all. It is out of proportion and looks nothing like its real life counterpart. Not only that, but it does not have the same vibrant white appearance either. 

Also your windows are still wrong. they could not possibley appear like that in game view. here is what they should look (more or less):

quote>

Also, why is is on an odd angle? I hope you release one that is orthogonal.

Edit: Simfox and this pageflip beat me to it.

[PBGV103 729]

Speaking of 3ds max, I fixed the units issue, and it exports fine, but the model doesn't show up in lot editor.  I followed the export instructions word for word, including FSH Batch Build and DAT FSH Insert.  I'm clueless at this point.  hahaha