nybt-forum-threads NYBT BAT Thread

[SimFox 801]

No I didn't say anything of the kind. All I meant is that when you work on a project you should go from big - massing to small - details, and not other way around. This will ensure that overall proportions are right and everything is in a relation to other. But I say again and again - work through the tutorials that come with 3ds Max - you'll learn a ton!

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Originally posted by: Jumpthefence

I've had a busy week, so I'm not so much in the loop. So no replies.

At the moment, I have a few concerns about this.

1) The tanks are colored in an odd way on the ends. I think by changing some parameters I can fix that.

2) Some of the ventilation units look really bright, eh?

3) How are the roof textures? They seem pretty bright to me.

4) On the building that holds up the tanks, should I modify the UVW map? More bricks? Less?

5) Anything else?

I simply don't have the attention span to write much right now. Just reply if you have opinions.
quote>

Are you all right? You are actually acting slightly serious... I hope things are okay.

1) I say do that. So far the tanks look like a solid grey color. You could try putting the Maxis Roof Pipes texture on it and slightly edit it. But that's just my opinion.

2) Yes bright. Should be toned down some, eh?

3)The roof textures look fine to me. Looks alot better than something I would put on there!

4)The UVW Mapping on them looks right. I would leave it. Maybe add a hint of color too it though?

5) Well The red metal things that surround the roof, are they really red? Or did you forget to texture that part? As for the rest of the roof, looks awsome. I love the little plants, ubrellas, and chairs up there. Gives it a little Maxis-roof style appeal that I like.

GuerilaWarfare- I think it's expensive since the program is used to make games and stuff I think,

As for me, I started shaping some stuff-

Some minor things got messed up so I have to redo some things.  I also added self-ilumination to the mullions. I thought that would make them look nicer, but I think I'm going to turn it off, what do ya'll think? Also, I'm not really that satisfied with the mullions, I feel like I made them to wide. Should I redo them and make them thinner? I tried emphasizing the detail but I think I did it too much.

[halo1dragon 10]

keilmestic when will the new statue of liberty be done?

[Evillions 552]

The Dakota is bit too hard for me right now, maybe next time I'll get back to it.

----------

For now, I made 88 Rivington Street.

I still need to make the last two floors, then add textures.  Personally, I find this W2W pretty easy to do, but the textures and nightlights will take some time because I want to this in Darknight.

Just a little note, the door where its under the 88.  I made it a normal door instead of it a concave door.  Personally, I like it better when its a normal door then concave.

[Jumpthefence 74]

Originally posted by: Sgt Pepper

 Are you all right? You are actually acting slightly serious... I hope things are okay.quote>

Oh contraire mon ami, I'm really distracted right now because I can't be serious. A friend spent Friday night at my house, then I saw Hamlet at a local college (and it ran from 7 to 11 at night). Essentially, my mind was stuffed with crazy thinking Friday (we watched a movie about the Manhattan project), and then my mind was overloaded with smart guy stuff, so now I'm on a sophistimacation hangover of sorts. I can't explain stuff right now, my mind's too damn beside the point.

You know, it's funny. I can't figure stuff out for myself, then even the smallest and simplest suggestions and changes make a world of difference. Tanks, one roof texture, vent textures, umbrella textures: Better?

Evillions: Oh, another Lower Manhattan townhouse-er... That looks good at the moment, although it could be improved a good deal. For one, the window mullions on the 2nd floor are too thick; Edit Mesh can easily fix that (assuming it's a spline). The door on the left looks a tad wide. On Google Street View it appears as though there is about .25 meters of wall beyond what you have to the left of the door. But of course, it's only in preliminary stages, so I'm not going to get all obsessive over every detail. For now...

Brandon: It looks pretty good, though the vertical mullions look as though they're made of a more metallic texture. I'll leave you to judge that. Spoiler alert: it may be time-consuming to change if you decide to. No pain, no gain...

I think that's long enough of a post. It's good to get back into the swing of things.

[PBGV103 729]

Got 3ds max today! now I just have to add Bat4Max. When I set up bootcamp on the computer, I made the mistake of only putting 60.5 Gb on the windows side of the partition. Now I only have 16 Gb of free space left! And it sounds like I need to upgrade from 4 to 8 Gb of memory too. Oh well... hopefully this will work out ok   BTW, 3ds max is expensive because it's a high end program used to model for games, advertising companies, architecture firms, etc.  thus $4k isn't that much when using better software nets your company $20k+ more.  Plus it has a relatively small market, when the number of buyers go down, prices go up, think Ferrari.  xD

Edit:  exported my lever house model into 3ds max and max flipped it on it's side and made it tiny  xD  hahaha this is gonna take some getting used to 

[Gwail 52]

Originally posted by: PBGV103

 thus $4k isn't that much...quote>

... and if you really know how to use it - it could profit you much more, every month, don't forget to mention .

I'd like to add a thought about the Lever House. If it's only a matter of the the scale of Marc's model, there is an opportunity to use Cogeo's tool to rescale it, I hope. At least you could spare more time on this project . It would be nice to have a NYBT member involved .

[SimFox 801]

Originally posted by: Evillions

The Dakota is bit too hard for me right now, maybe next time I'll get back to it.

----------

For now, I made 88 Rivington Street.

I still need to make the last two floors, then add textures.  Personally, I find this W2W pretty easy to do, but the textures and night lights will take some time because I want to this in Darknight.

Just a little note, the door where its under the 88.  I made it a normal door instead of it a concave door.  Personally, I like it better when its a normal door then concave.

quote>

OK here is the photo of building in question:

You said you've found it pretty easy to make.. Now look at these two pictures... It's like that game often found in the papers - two pictures and you have to find 7 differences or so...

If you say you're re.creating something. And especially when you do a particular building you should do just that - try to re-create.

So do you still think you need just to add 2 more floor and textures?

Also what is concave door - check the meaning of the word concave! This kind of sloppiness is exactly you biggest obstacle in your BATing - you don't care if you use right terms, if you use right proportions, or for that matter right logic - why would lighting for DarNight take longer to accomplish? I mean, really! Try to answer just this question! I'm sure while you be at it you'll find a lot of interesting things. Not particularly about DarkNight, but about the way you operate. Clearing some things there would help you a lot.

BTW your gamma settings didn't kick in. You would need to go to Customize->Preferences and there to Gamma and LUT tab. Just open it don't do anything in it except pressing on OK button

[PBGV103 729]

Well it's scale and the north roof plaza is off a little, I could just use Cogeo's tool but I'd like to use the lever house to get used to 3ds max before moving on to larger objects, and now I can use trunite.

[SimFox 801]

Right! Now you definitely should have a go at Lever House - it is such a beautiful architectural monument! Besides Cogeo's tool is no good fro scaling. It is practical for moving/centering un-centered Buildings, but in case of scaling it will cause degradation of the model. Meaning that you will not see rendered FSH in pixel-per-pixel way. And game is notoriously weak with things like that.

[Evillions 552]

Oh...So I missed some of the outlines in the first floor windows, and some other minor (if not major) details. Back to the drawing board.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Evillions: When it comes to BATing, especially when making recreations, planning ahead is extremely useful tool. Make a few drawings (with dimensions) to get all of the fundamental parts worked out before you model a single part. This goes back to my drafting background, lol, but try making a floor plan (top down), an elevation (font facade) and maybe one other view to cement your understanding of the shape and details the building has.

This does not have to be a masterpiece, but as long as you have something in your hand that you can look at while double checking your reference pictures you stand a better chance at getting a result that you can be proud of.

[PBGV103 729]

SimFox, I can import the Lever House into 3d max, turn it right-side up, and fix the scale, but I'm having problems with the BAT utility. Let there be light works fine and I see the TruNite export tab, but there's no BAT utility and it keeps asking me where my plugins folder is every time I open the program. I think it might be because I'm running win 7 on bootcamp. I'm going to take a trip to geek squad in Best Buy to see if they have any advice.  The problem might be security settings. I can allow full access to modify folders and such, but windows immediately switched back to read only.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

That may be the case, but more than likely it is a problem with the installation. Quadruple check the installation of BAT4MAX and continue from there.

I know it should only ever ask you once for the location of the plugins folder. The fact that some of your BAT tools are missing seems to me that folder security has nothing to do with it. But, alas, I'd wait for Simfox for more specifics.

[Evillions 552]

Originally posted by: SimHoTToDDy

Evillions: When it comes to BATing, especially when making recreations, planning ahead is extremely useful tool. Make a few drawings (with dimensions) to get all of the fundamental parts worked out before you model a single part. This goes back to my drafting background, lol, but try making a floor plan (top down), an elevation (font facade) and maybe one other view to cement your understanding of the shape and details the building has.

This does not have to be a masterpiece, but as long as you have something in your hand that you can look at while double checking your reference pictures you stand a better chance at getting a result that you can be proud of.quote>

How do I check its dimenisons in Google Earth?  Or it just gives me its basic dimenision as the building as a whole?

[Darknono35 3,137]

Hi ! This is the New York Plaza, normaly I can Upload this on the STEX this week if you're OK with my work. But a few details are missings for the roof !

[Parisian 549]

Originally posted by: Sgt Pepper

@Parisian- Hey, I simply used the default Maxis Glass that came with the BAT, applied self ilumination with it with the same texture, and changed the colors up in BAT. By the way, can you put up a rendering pic of that building too(like how you attached that pic to your post)? It looks good and very promissing so far! I'd like to see a rendering preview. By the way what building is that?

Thanks for your advices. This building is coming straight away from my mind, in a NY inspiration...

It's like a sort of exercice for me to improve my technic of BATing. I would like to use another program to BAT but I don't know if another one is compatible with simcity.

The Statue of Liberty is simply wonderful! With the real base, it looks very realistic. Can't wait to see that in my city.

By my side I have not a lot of time to progress on the Saint Patrick cathedral, but promise, I will render it before the end of August.

[Darknono35 3,137]

[SimFox 801]

Originally posted by: PBGV103

SimFox, I can import the Lever House into 3d max, turn it right-side up, and fix the scale, but I'm having problems with the BAT utility. Let there be light works fine and I see the TruNite export tab, but there's no BAT utility and it keeps asking me where my plugins folder is every time I open the program. I think it might be because I'm running win 7 on bootcamp. I'm going to take a trip to geek squad in Best Buy to see if they have any advice.  The problem might be security settings. I can allow full access to modify folders and such, but windows immediately switched back to read only.quote>

Reason for this is that in latest version of Windows (W7 for sure and may be Vista) Program Files folder is write locked by default. Because of that Scripts can't set BATFORMAX.ini. So, it is a security issue.

To fix this situation go to your BAT folder and set to yourself (or just to anyone) full permissions just for this folder.

It should work. At least it did on my version of W7. Remember you have to specify those options for a given user. And you must have administrator privileges while doing so..

At the moment there is another problem DATCMD - the iLive program doesn't work properly with paths with empty spaces. I have contacted him, but with no result. So, in teh end I have written my own routine that works around this problem. This and many more new things (mostly under the hood) together with quite serious interface "facelift" will be available in Bat4Max 5 which should be available by next weekend.

You don't need to wary about working in current version though. Update will be fully compatible with everything you do at the moment.

Evillions:

no, you didn't just missed on a few minor details. Virtually all proportions in your model are wrong... And that is not a minor thing.

plus it's HUGE!

Darknono35:

why are you postong one picture of the building in two separate messages? And why are they different scale?

Also your windows are still wrong. they could not possibley appear like that in game view. here is what they should look (more or less):

[Sgt Pepper 864]

@JTF- Looking bettar! Oh and what happened to that Industrial BAT or what ever type it was you posted a few pages ago?

@Parisian- Well from what I could tell form that pic it looked good! If I was you I'd keep practicing with Gmax. And are you going to release that builidng when you finish?

@darknono35-Looking good! I really like it. I'd say the glass could be darker and maybe more relective? But other than that, it's one of your best BATs so far! Also, have you ever thought about updating some of your BATs? Like 40 Wall Street and One Chase Manhattan Plaza? Mainly because they have a minor issue of not displaying shadows on the roofs and part of the building.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Evillions: Google earth helps to get the total length and width, these should be the anchors on which you base the rest of the assumptions you make when drawing up your plan.

If you find a nice front view of the building, you can measure the proportions of the building in an image editor (I like to use the marquee tool to get a pxiel to pixel ratio) and then use those measurements to govern your dimensions. For example, I make my doors 3m tall by 1m wide. If I measure the door in the image to be 30px tall, and then I measure a wall that happens to be 45px tall, then I can assume that the walls is 4.5 m tall.

You can find a similar process in Jasoncw's blog.

[Evillions 552]

I did a test pic to see what it looks in game.   I guess I have to BAT 88 Rivington Street agian or start another one.

[PBGV103 729]

Went to Geek Squad to today and I moved the Autodesk program files to my desktop, which seems to allow it to work properly. I haven't tried exporting anything yet, but all of the BAT utilities show up now so hopefully the problem is fixed. I am the only user, and administrator on my computer, but Win 7 doesn't want to unlock any program files. I uncheck the "read only" box under properties and click apply and ok, but as soon as I open properties again it switches back to read only.  ughhh just more windows/bootcamp issues but at least it seems to be working now

Edit:  scale is uncorrected in this snapshot

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Darknono35- to me It looks good.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

@Simfox- He just felt like doing that with the seperate posts. I don't see a problem there. The scale of them are not different, he just zoomed out more on the second pic. The windows don't bother me in terms of accuracy, like I don't go for complete accuracy in any of my NYBT models(I'm sure you noticed). However, if it's just how they look on his model, well I don't see what the problem is on them.

@Evillions- I wouldn't say you have to redo yours or start another one. If you just scale it down some it will be fine.

@PBGV103- Looks very promising! I wantz to seez a render soonz! By the way, Gwail replied to my PM about our idea, I'll PM you later.

[Evillions 552]

Here's the rescaled version, looks much better with comparsion with my old gmax euro BAT and SOMY's.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Evillions- It looks a little better sense you have scaled it.

Here One of my buildings that are in Harlem New York City I have made it before the Timpson PL a round March I think, one thing is that the size is not right as well and I don't want to restart it. I might have to scale it one day.

[PBGV103 729]

Looks good to me Aaron. Whats so hard about scaling it? that would take like a second! I say go for it!

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I think we need to see a preview render first

[SimFox 801]

Originally posted by: PBGV103

Went to Geek Squad to today and I moved the Autodesk program files to my desktop, which seems to allow it to work properly. I haven't tried exporting anything yet, but all of the BAT utilities show up now so hopefully the problem is fixed. I am the only user, and administrator on my computer, but Win 7 doesn't want to unlock any program files. I uncheck the "read only" box under properties and click apply and ok, but as soon as I open properties again it switches back to read only.  ughhh just more windows/bootcamp issues but at least it seems to be working now

Edit:  scale is uncorrected in this snapshotquote>

You unlock it not by uncheking "Read Only". You have to go to Security Tab and there click on "Edit" button. in the new windows that will pop-up select yourself (the user) and tick all permissions. Click OK and you should be done.

Sgt Pepper.

Some things could be not accurate, but NOT the most defining feature of the building, like in that case. What's point in re-creation if that is gotten wrong. Also, in the case of top and bottom, of the tower, which one is suppose to be of accurate scale?

Of course on the other hand everything is fine, just everything...

Evillions:

I think you should get it right. If you want to really continue to BAT that is. Cause if you will kepp staring new ones, getting it wrong, dropping it and starting new building and repeating the cycle...

In this particular case given how small and simple the building it would be prodent to start from clean slate. But do what SimHotToDDy suggested to you  - start with creating simple sketch with numbers. Measure in Google Earth overall dimensions of the building and create the box that would represent it - that is you sizer. Convert it to Editable poly and start subdividing. This way you would know that you'll not go wrong with overall dimensions, plus it would be easier to spot relative scale problems. But DO look at your source materials. Pay attentions where in relation of each other elements are.