America Revolts

[sim-fan192 4]

Yesterday, thousands took to the streets to protest agianst the American goverment and its leader, Barak Obama. Over 15,000 people protested in Atlanta, other Tea Parties took place in San Fransisco, Houston, New Orleans, Cinncinatii, Washington D.C. and many other cities across the United States. Some say that Texans are so discusted by the reckless spending of Pres. Obama that they may seceed from the U.S. but Governer Rick Perry says it won't come to it. Has the worlds wealthies and most powerful nation finally come to its knees?

[Zezug 6]

Hmm somehow I doubt it, people get all worked up but secession isnt going to happen, didnt work well the last time states tried

edit: removed unintended angry face

[sim-fan192 4]

The thing about Texas is that they think differently than the rest of the nation. Texas was fought over for years, France, Spain, Mexico, The Rebulic of Texas and now the U.S. now control it. The U.S. is the 6th nation to own Texas. Since Texas joined to United States and was a nation, it is the only state flag allowed to fly at the same hieght as the American Flag. Texas joined legelly, and can leave legally whenever it wants.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[sim-fan192 4]

The Reps. are doing this becuase the goverment has spend TRILLIONS of dollars and plans to raise taxes to an unheard of 60% to pay it off, at least thats what I've heard.

[Dark_Jedi06 13]

I would hardly call it a revolt, just your garden-variety protests that get nothing accomplished save allowing a few people to let off steam.

And if Texas tried to leave...well I doubt the United States government would let such an embarrassment occur, if they couldn't coerce them to stay with words then a simple show of force would bring Texas under the US banner permanently. Not to mention that Texas couldn't survive on its own, as we all know the only state that could do that is New Jersey, as it is the most fabulous state in the Union and "we have the technology".

[Zezug 6]

ah, woops, didnt mean for that angry face to be there, that was an accident. *starts muttering* Damn smileys doing different things than you expect them too. And just to make it clear, no Im not mad that the South lost.

edit: also Texas can't leave legally according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

[MrCinatit 30]

Originally posted by: sim-fan192

The Reps. are doing this becuase the goverment has spend TRILLIONS of dollars and plans to raise taxes to an unheard of 60% to pay it off, at least thats what I've heard.quote>

You heard wrong.

The tax hike would affect 5 percent of the people in the U.S. That tax hike would be a (hold on to your hats) 3 percent tax hike.

Yes, that is right - these rallies were held to support to top 5 percent wealthiest people in the U.S., who are ired at a tax hike which will take them to (hold on to your hats again) Reagan era tax rates. The horror.

[Voar Tok 4]

I would like to clarify some issues that will probably present themselves before the misinformation begins to spread.  (Seeing as how they are an issue on CNN.com already too).

First off, the vast majority of Texans are not going to be in support of this.  I'm a Texan, and proudly so, as well as a loyal American.  The two are not mutually exclusive, and I'm not even close to being in support of secession.  It's stupid.  Perry is taking a page out of Sarah Palin's book and running his mouth because he's coming up for re-election and needs to try to establish some sort of relevancy with at least some contingent of voters.  The vast majority of Texans think that he's one of the most irresponsible and ridiculous governors the state has ever had.  There's a strong probability that he is going to be voted out of office when the chance presents itself, and he has to do something to try to look like he's got the backs of Texans.  He's failing at it, but that's his plan.

The ability of Texas to just legally leave the US is one that doesn't appear to be valid.  The Supreme Court has ruled that the Constitution doesn't provide a method of legally leaving the Union, however, Texas does hold the distinction of being the only state that has ever been it's own independent nation (the thirteen original colonies don't really count because they pretty much acted like a nation, albeit a disfunctional one, after the American Revolution).  Texas does however have special legal privileges that aren't given to the other states because it was originally a nation before it joined the United States.  Such privileges are things like being able to legally fly the state flag at the same level as the national flag.

Also, this boils down to more than just "there's a black man in the White House!!!" sentiments.  Obama has stepped on a lot of toes and has talked about, or already succeded, in subverting some of the basic ideas that the country was founded on.  Remember the shirts that went around with a picture of Bush's face and the caption "Not My President."  A lot of the non-Obama people are feeling the same thing right now.  I'm one of the people that looks at Obama's presidential plans and cringes a little on the inside because of what he's talking about doing.  There won't be a secession over this, but Obama is going to be more controversial that Bush was.

[slystone2 20]

it's just bitterness over their side losing the election - people were really emotionally invested in this past one, and they can't except the fact that their side isn't the one spending our tax dollars.

Nobody protested when Bush borrowed billions from the Chinese to finance a war so he wouldn't have to raise taxes and lose public support. Nobody protested when he signed off on the first bailout plan. (750 billion I think?)

Had John McCain won, he would be spending a boatload of money to revive the economy as well.

But because it's BO, there's people with their panties still in a bunch. A lot of racism exists where I live as well, and those people are very, very bitter over the election.

That's the drawback to democracy - the majority decides how the money is spent, and when you're no longer in the majority, you have to grin and bare it. As you can see, that concept has not been grasped by some, and they choose to throw temper tantrums.

[Odainsaker 2,135]

...Texas does hold the distinction of being the only state that has ever been it's own independent nation...quote>

Eh, we forget Hawaii, whose constituent island states were ancient long before the independence of the 13 colonies and whose unified Kingdom of Hawai'i was founded earlier and lasted longer as a sovereign nation than the Republic of Texas.  The royal I'olani Palace even had electricity before the White House, and we still sing the old anthem "Hawai'i Pono'i."  Amusingly, the constitutional monarchy's overthrow, the reoganization into the Republic of Hawai'i, and ultimate annexation by the U.S. was precipitated by an export tariff treaty crisis and led by transplant American plantation owners who had grown rich on duty-free agricultural exports to the U.S.

Of course, as mentioned, the Texas secession babble from a few kooky fringe groups with loud voices has even less steam than the modern native Hawaiian secessionist movement.  As pointed out, Gov. Perry is more like a lil' Bush Jr. who has managed to even antagonize our Texas Republicans with his aloof I'm-the-Decider-in-the-Ivory-Tower governance and his pet TxDOT executive agency run amok.  The Legislature, already dominated by Texas Republicans, acts with more bipartisanship than the governor!  Bush's handpicked successor as governor was re-elected on a plurality...most Texans voted against him, but he survived because the strong competition was too diverse.  It is expected this time that U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson will run against him for the Republican ticket in the Texas governor's race, and she will likely smack him down.  Hmmm...a face off between Hutchinson and Kinky Friedman...who says local Texas politics can't be entertaining?

As for the tea parties...too much contradictory "Obama is a socialist/communist/fascist/anarchist taxing everything in sight, stealing all our guns, and eating children" steamblowing to be taken too seriously.

[tepodon 29]

I say secession is possible. Lets not forget Quebec almost seceeded from Canada with a close margin. Secessionist movements gaining strength, especially in places as unique as Texas than the rest of the federal state, is a possibility.

But I wouldn't bet money on it...

[ShortStraw 1]

So the whole teabag thing is a thinly veiled partisan attack against the Obama administration. Most people still understand that the government will HAVE to generate funds from somewhere and that their primary method of doing that is through their tax base. As far as I can tell, most responsible, thinking Americans understand that they will have to pay taxes to support their governments efforts to improve things.

Also, any American state that makes "secession" noises is babbling foolishness and really should just stop and maybe think about joining the rest of us in trying to make things better instead of trying to flee a difficult problem.

[Yucan 0]

Even though it (sometimes/often) is pretty populist itself, you get quite a good view on all of this via The Daily Show (with Jon Stewart)...

These rallies seem to be not just directed at these huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge tax hikes, but, as it was pointed out before here, at the wasteful spendig of the government (but it was on the US tax day, so that it would appear it was against taxes... which sounds like a pretty good crowd-getter to me).

Now don't get me wrong:

In my opinion, these rallies are ridicuilous. I respect people for demonstrating for what they believe in, but as most of you are thinking, those reasons are faked and this is just a show for Republicans, who are behaving worse than small kids after they didn't get what they wanted, since the Dems. won the election.

Fear-mongering is the word of the hour (of the "left wing" anyway) and even though I'm used to it (well, im European, so I just know what I see on television or read and see on the Internet), what's currently going on via the Republican Party and the media (see Rush Limbough and, of course, fair and balanced Fox News) is right out ridicilous and even scary.

Yucan

[Craig91 12]

Originally posted by: sim-fan192

Over 15,000 people protested in Atlanta,quote>

Oh please, that's nothing. Over a hundread thousand people turned up to a protest in Dublin against our governments handling of the economy (with no results), and Ireland's only a country of 4.2million. When millions of Americans take to the streets I'll start taking this idea of America coming to its knees seriously.

[KingofYoutube 0]

Yeah, over 100,000 West Virginians protested on the WV Capital lawn. But, as my mom always said:

"Anyone can make us come to our knees. Even from the inside out."

Next thing ya know, we'll be making our own countries!

[Jezus53 18]

A lot of strong opinions here. I like it.

I'm going to have to take both sides on this one. I agree with some of things they were protesting. I'm tired of our government spending into a hole we an never get out of. I never agreed with not raising taxes for an unnecessary war and I believe that if they were raised this war would have never happened resulting in a better economy. Our nation voted an idiot in twice then had two (IMHO) horrible candidates to choose from afterward. But, what I don't think these people understand (and what A LOT of people don't understand) is that the affects of the Obama administration will not really affect us till at soonest a year later, except for the bailout, which is probably the worst idea ever. And yes, I would have rather have seen them fall, since after all, this is a free market enerprise and all they really want is the government of their backs. Anyways, I also think they are mad that taxes are going up because we feel (at least people that I know and I) feel like we are getting nothing from what is already taxed. I think I pay roughly 30% and I know it's low compared to a lot of nations, but I feel like I'm getting nothing for it. I swere, everytime I drive my care my exhuast hits the pavement because of all the potholes and uneven pavenment we have. It's quite annyoing. My schools are literally growing mold in the class rooms (no not biology class) for Christ sake! They can't take some of that money I send in and fix that? Is my health not that important? Oh wait! We needed to spend that on high speed rail, I forgot. Silly me.

Anyways, let me rap up my confusing rant. I say this country could use a little revolt, maybe one that can get the people in government to relize that they are serving the people, not big business. That even though there are ignorant people out there, there are still a few that know what they are up to. Maybe we should change our whole system completely. I can think of a few places that would be good examples of a good government. And I wouldn't mind paying more in taxes, I just want something in return for the moeny I never get to touch.

[zane900 1]

the republicans seem less interested in the tax hike and more interested in bashing the democrats. 

[Ntq€310 1]

Well it's pretty easy to see where this thread is going. Whining over the fact that the Republicans should be doing, and acting like a opposition, and representing the people who elected them. But I guess it seems everyone has forgotten that the democrats are doing the same thing to the republicans, the protesters, and when they were the minority... the exact same thing. But when it's a republican doing it, or someone whose just a little right-wing you just have to go after I guess  Ok sarcasm over, really, i mean honestly? Why is it that everyone is linking this to the republicans, and suddenly the fact that the republicans arean' t supporting Obama, and being like the good opposition and actually opposing, just like our system is suppose to have, one side opposes another, and keeps everything balanced and in check....  But besides that have we all forgotten that the Democrats are no better? I mean really......

Also here is the thing. Everyone seems to be focusing on the fact that this is all about taxes, and to a point it is. Some taxes are going up. But the bigger point is that taxes will be going up, because spending is going up, and out of sight, because the Obama admin. is using bailouts, stimulus, and spending on everything possible, giving the United States it's biggest deficit in it's history. So because were spending Trillions, and the money has to come from somewhere... hmmm to do think that at some point were going have to deal with it, and that taxes at some point will go up to pay for this? Hense my idea that everyone is just bashing it and not actually looking at it's substance and the point that the protesters are trying to make, and no doubt that if this type of view on it, and the republicans continue, even more people will get pissed, and result in bigger protest.

Now no doubt, because it is mainly the conservatives in America who are against this massive spending, and Obama, that it is mostly republican, but theres also a lot of independents, and democrats out there who feel the same way. Though the whole Obama communist is going a little far. but hey, If the republicans can have a 'Bush' the Democrats can also have a 'Bush' And though it is way to early to tell.. at this pace.. they may have just found there bush lol.

[Kevin 101]

When Republicans are in power, Democrats hold huge rallies and Republicans criticize them for it. When Democrats are in power, Republicans hold huge rallies and Democrats criticize them for it. America is hardly revolting... we're just vocal when we don't agree with the government.

[Yoman3 5]

I think that we should exile or kill our entire government anyway for their stupidity, every single one of them republicans and democrats. If their salaries were based on performance they'd be broke as hell.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: zane900

the republicans seem less interested in the tax hike and more interested in bashing the democrats.  quote>

Why does that sound familiar I wonder?  Oh, I remember now.  The Dems did the same thing when Bush was in office and still bashing today.  I guess dems have thin skin like everyone else.

[panthersimcity4 162]

Revolt is a strong word. Maybe, like... "public annoyance" is more like it...

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4

Revolt is a strong word. Maybe, like... "public annoyance" is more like it...quote>

Yeah, I was thinking that. I get an image of people brandishing Pitchforks and Torches burning Obama effigys.  And by "America", you'd imagine the whole 300 million of you would be doing it.... really this topic should be called "Spending gives Republicans a reason to makes lots of noise and achieve nothing".

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Do I get this right:- The Americans are Revolting.

[Boggy1 45]

Hang on, forgive me if I am confused, but why a Tea Party?

In my mind a 'Tea Party' is a group of old ladies getting together to drink tea and eat biscuits and discuss last Sundays church service. I'm sure that's not what these protesters are doing. It just seems bizarre to call it a 'Tea Party', which sounds so tame.

Any reason?

[Deathtoall 28]

I believe the Tea Party comes from the Boston Tea Party. But the fact is, as already pointed out (By Mr C) is that the move is to reinstate a fairer level of tax on wealthy people, i doubt that even 10% of United States citizens earn over 250,000 dollars a year, the level at which the higher tax comes in. Its just people complaining about taxes that mainly wont effect them. As for the spending, atleast its not another war and there is plans for much needed reform which part of this money is for. 15,000 people? Over the country? Even here thats a paltry amount, we have had over 100,000 people in protests in a single city.

Summing up, people need to see through alot of this absolute (i cant say what) and realise its a simple economic, capitalist move and you already have pretty low tax rates. Republican spin, i say you lost control now go figure why and learn to move on.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

The word "tea party" is reminiscent of the Boston Tea Party, in which a group of people protested a 3-penny tax on tea by dumping barrels of it in Boston Harbor. So, symbolically, both groups are protesting taxes in the spirit of the previous one. They also have tea bags, so I think the term will stick.

I had come to the conclusion, a few weeks beforehand, that both Bush and Obama are fascists, or at the very least have fascist leanings. Bush happened to be a non-economic fascist most of his term and Obama is merely completing the economic part of the equation, all the while keeping his secret police (the NSA) and trying to keep absolute power to imprison anyone in the world without charges. What difference does it make if one masquerades as a conservative, and one masquerades as a liberal?

Also, I believe that the tea party crowd should not be looked at by party, but rather their ideology. From what I saw at most of the parties, it was mostly conservatives and libertarians, with a few liberals and other disaffected left-wingers. Also, there were a sizable number of Independents and Libertarians there, so it is not a "Republican rally".

I watched all-afternoon coverage on Fox News (probably the first time I've watched their entire lineup), and I agree with Glenn Beck that the Tea Parties are not so much about taxes as policy. Some had signs that said to "End the Fed", an argument that I happen to support, since Bernanke has created hyperinflation. Others just didn't like Obama, which I was not as supportive of.

All considered, it was a rather mixed tea bag, with the largest crowd estimated at over 5000, and the average being 150 or so. On the "revolt issue", it's too early to say whether this will coalesce into something bigger or not. All I know is that sometimes small events set off a chain reaction that leads to a rebellion, the most famous example being the Boston Tea Party itself.

Lastly, you Americans should be thankful to these tea-partiers: they could give a reason to millions of Americans to actually celebrate Tax Day .

[zane900 1]

Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote

Do I get this right:- The Americans are Revolting.quote>

no, not really.  read cheese's post...

Originally posted by: Cheese89

When Republicans are in power, Democrats hold huge rallies and Republicans criticize them for it. When Democrats are in power, Republicans hold huge rallies and Democrats criticize them for it. America is hardly revolting... we're just vocal when we don't agree with the government.

quote>

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus

I had come to the conclusion, a few weeks beforehand, that both Bush and Obama are fascists

quote>