BAT - Troubleshooting & General Discussion

[rsc204 21,867]

I think @matias93 got the right answer here.

You can't edit a SC4 Model file in 3D modelling software, it doesn't contain anything that allows the file to be read such that the components of the model will appear. The only way to edit or reuse such things as part of a new or modified model is to have the original .MAX / .3DS / .gmax files. The former only works with 3DS Max, .3DS can be used with both 3DS Max and SC4 BAT, but .gmax files only open in SC4 BAT. Note it's not that simple either, there are compatibility issues. For example, opening a file made in a newer version of 3DS max than you have will probably be impossible (.MAX). Additionally, you will need all the resources used to create it like Textures and possibly the specific camera/lighting rigs too.

Unless a creator has released such files, the best solution is to contact them and ask politely for a copy explaining what you want to do with them. But some users have moved on, you may not get a response, others may not agree to allow re-use.

[pierrebaptiste 472]

Hello rsc204 ,

Excatly , it's to work on a file .gmax not a fil sc4model. I know that the .sc4model is only usable with SC4PIMX or Lot Editor.

I wait for the reply to Heblem .

[Fantozzi 4,068]

It's a few days now - when I render in background and do something else after each turn rendering stops with the popping up question 'Really Cancel?" - so I have to check back every couple of minutes and say 'No' to continue. So it's also impossible to leave the computer alone during rendering.

Did someone experience this too and knows how to stop that nagging canceling question?

[rsc204 21,867]

If you are using SC4BAT, I'd say that's pretty much par for the course. The application is very old and doesn't meld well with the concept of multi-tasking. Thus when switching focus from the App, it may stop the render process. Frankly, even with 3DS Max, I leave rendering well alone until it's finished. If you are only making small simple models, it shouldn't be too long to wait it out.

[daderic888 216]

G'day guys,

I'm still in the process of creating my stack of BATs from my favourite part of the world.

Lately, I've been reading about the vertical scaling aspects and a question has come to mind:

I have been creating my BATs calculating about 133% of the vertical dimension. For my residential BATs, I have made them 6 metres in height for each floor.

From what I have been reading, there may be a scaling tool in the BAT.

Would it be better for me to continue as I have been doing or to make the BATs height at real world heights (which would be about 4.5 metres per floor) and use this scaling tool (wherever it may be in the BAT)?

[korver 27,686]

I don't believe there's any big downsides to doing that method, but I would highly recommend just modeling at real world heights and then scale up everything 1.33 once you're done and about to render. Most BATers do this and it's a much easier way to go about it IMO - a couple of clicks at the end and you're completely done.

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Korver is right, it's way more practical to model everything in real world measures and when you finish it you just select everything and resize to 133% vertically.

I don't know what kind of house you're doing, but I think 4.5m is too tall. I believe 2.8 to 3.0 meters is good to house dimensions. If you're recreating a RL building I recommend you to use Google Earth Pro. It's for free and you can use a tool to measure length, width, and in some cases, height.

[daderic888 216]

Thanks korver & JP Schriefer.

I'm in the process of creating mid to high rise BAT's. So, 3 metres per floor sounds better.

Where would I find the scaling tool in the BAT?

Here are 2 pics of the one I'm currently making.

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Nice building

I use 3ds Max, but looks like this tool has the same icon to both, in the BAT is this one.

3m looks good to this building IMO

[daderic888 216]

Thanks mate,

I forgot to mention that I'm using GMAX and I think I found it (attached).

From the looks of things, I would have to scale it on the Z axis.

Would I just type in 133.0 in the Z box?

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Yes

[rsc204 21,867]

2 hours ago, daderic888 said:

Would I just type in 133.0 in the Z box?

That is the correct input to add 33%. But it should be noted, due to quirks of how gMax works, you need to select all the objects in your scene beforehand and "group" them together before doing this. Otherwise you'll end up with a real mess of objects out of place.

[madhatter106 3,931]

On my office midrises, I modeled the floors above the lobby/ground floor at either 4.25 or 4.5 meters each.  Oddly enough, I rarely model stuff and then scale it; I've just accustomed myself to modeling with the scaling in the back of my head (ie. overcompensating for height and then just expecting gmax to squish things a little bit vertically).

[CT14 2,486]

I model as close to real scale as possible then scale up at the end.

In addition to what has been said above, you'll need to move the model vertically a little bit after scaling, to sit just above 0 on the Z axis again. I like to use the Left ortho view in Gmax to do this.

If you have custom LODs make sure they are visible/grouped with the model before the 133% scaling/repositioning, or they won't match up anymore. If the LODs are just a box, remake them after.

[daderic888 216]

Ah ok, thanks for all of this.

One more thing, should the ground floor / foyer / lobby should me made at about 6 metres in real world scale as suggested in a reply in one of my previous posts?

[madhatter106 3,931]

I almost always make the ground floor taller than the floors above; more often than not, there's a high-ceiling lobby or mezzanine or some feature inside the ground floor that would account for it.  Not only that, I do find that if the ground floor isn't taller, the building will have a squished or squat look.  Like a Corgi.  Not that I don't love Corgis, but it always looks odd to me.

I also usually make the uppermost floor a bit taller too - you don't just get a ceiling on the inside of the top floor, with the bottom of the exterior rooftop just floating right above it.  There's usually cornice or dentals or detail work, and visually it's more appealing to the eye.

[CT14 2,486]

Sorry to go off topic but this is actually a thing @madhatter106!

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

this is what's going on, 

i downloaded this building from 3D warehouse, and i opened it up in sketchup2016, then i exported it as a 3Ds, then i tried importing it into BAT, BUT when it render it in BAT, it doesn't have a texture on it, it's just the shape of the building colored white.

How do i get the texture of it to show up?

please help, if you need more information just ask.

please help 

 

here's a visual of whats going on:

 

 

 

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

UPDATE: actually, this problem isn't solved. now im having this problem with another building that doesn't have an alternate download option on 3d warehouse. help? 

[Jasoncw 11,968]

You need to double check your import settings. 

The reason the preview render looks messed up is because it looks like the normals are backwards. In 3d, polygons only have one "front" and if you look at the polygon from behind you won't be able to see it. Some materials and other settings make it so that both sides of a polygon are visible, but you'll still want the normals facing the right direction. In other words, the faces of your building are inside out. For example in first person shooters, your character might be inside a room which is modeled as a box. The normals of the box's polygons will be flipped so that they face the interior of the box, which is what the player will look at, but if you clip out of bounds and look back at the room, those walls will be invisible to the player. 

The textures are more than likely not showing up because the file paths to the textures are no longer valid. You'll have to open the material editor and reload the texture files on each material. Or there might be an import option relating to file paths that would solve this problem automatically. 

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

check the import settings in BAT? how would i do that though?

and i tried reloading the textures but that didnt work either. it still rendered the same way 

 

and if the faces are inside out, how do i make it so they're not inside out?

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

Also, i never had this problem with any of the other buildings i imported the same way

 

and here's a video of what's going on: 

 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

That's a very common problem when importing models from Sketchup to the B.A.T./3ds Max, especially if it's from the Warehouse. As Jason said, some polygons are showing the wrong side.

The only thing you need to do is to open the file on Sketchup and do the following steps to fix the problematic faces.

For example, apparently there's nothing wrong with this cube, but it won't look right at the B.A.T. because intentionally I made something wrong with it:

 

So you follow this way: View > Face Style > Monochromatic (mine is in Portuguese, but the way is something like that). This option will let you know which faces are on the right or wrong side.

 

And this is what you get, you can notice there's a blueish face there, it means it's set on to the wrong side. Just right click on it and click on Reverse Faces.

 

After that you set the Default settings again.

Ps.: you don't need to do that to export the model. The only thing you need to do is save the file as Sketchup 2008 format.

[Diego Del Llano 5,206]

No My Friend you can not, so is very important that you work on "components" or "blocks" evry ,aterial, and then every block has to asigned to a especific layer, so when you export to 3d Max you can apply textures very quickly !! : 

 

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

6 hours ago, JP Schriefer said:

That's a very common problem when importing models from Sketchup to the B.A.T./3ds Max, especially if it's from the Warehouse. As Jason said, some polygons are showing the wrong side.

The only thing you need to do is to open the file on Sketchup and do the following steps to fix the problematic faces.

For example, apparently there's nothing wrong with this cube, but it won't look right at the B.A.T. because intentionally I made something wrong with it:

 

 

So you follow this way: View > Face Style > Monochromatic (mine is in Portuguese, but the way is something like that). This option will let you know which faces are on the right or wrong side.

 

 

And this is what you get, you can notice there's a blueish face there, it means it's set on to the wrong side. Just right click on it and click on Reverse Faces.

 

 

After that you set the Default settings again.

Ps.: you don't need to do that to export the model. The only thing you need to do is save the file as Sketchup 2008 format.

 

 

 

ok, I tried this, but it still didn't exactly solve the problem.

The building shape in Gmax seems to be correct now, but the textures still aren't showing up right. Here's what it looked like as it was rendering:

 

 

is there anyway i could get them to show up correctly? 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Well, the problem was resolved. Now you just need to add the textures there again...

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

1 minute ago, JP Schriefer said:

Well, the problem was resolved. Now you just need to add the textures there again...

well i wanted to use the textures from the original model from 3d warehouse, but how do i add the textures? do i do that in sketchup? or BAT? and how do i know what goes where? 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

The textures are still there, but on the other side of the faces. If you see the model from inside on Sketchup you'll be able to see them. There is a tool for you to pick up the texture, a kind of colour picker. You pick the texture of each face you need to fix inside and add it to the outer face. To be honest these are very basic tools from Sketchup, if you don't know how to deal with them I recommend you to look for tutorials on YouTube. Also, if you are able to look some tutorials it would be even better if you decide to watch the Gmax or 3ds Max ones.

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

2 hours ago, JP Schriefer said:

The textures are still there, but on the other side of the faces. If you see the model from inside on Sketchup you'll be able to see them. There is a tool for you to pick up the texture, a kind of colour picker. You pick the texture of each face you need to fix inside and add it to the outer face. To be honest these are very basic tools from Sketchup, if you don't know how to deal with them I recommend you to look for tutorials on YouTube. Also, if you are able to look some tutorials it would be even better if you decide to watch the Gmax or 3ds Max ones.

but i didn't want to paint the building or create new textures, i just wanted the original textures from the 3dwarehouse model. is there anyway to get the textures to show up on the other side instead so they're visible? 

im not sure what you meant by the tool, but i believe you mean that it does that. which tool is it? do i have to download it from somewhere? 

 

UPDATE: i think i got it now, the eye drop tool and paint bucket tool. 

[Joe_Winko_From_YouTube 18]

UPDATE: i'm still having some problems with applying the textures again,

here's another visual of what's going on right now: