Seba's submenus

[smf_16 1,835]

Hi all,

I already briefly touched this in the main Submenus DLL thread, but I think this deserves its own topic. I have created a repository on GitHub that allows me to easily generate submenus and add menu items to them in bulk. Basically all I have to do to add items to a submenu is copy/paste the lots in the repo and run a script. Creating menu buttons is easy too: I just take a screenshot and write a very minimal _menu.yaml file and then run the build script again. It's basically the same flow as in my cli tool, but on steroids. With all of this in place, I've used today to create submenus for my entire plugins folder (that I'm building from scratch with sc4pac). I'm really, really happy with how clean this one turned out, so I decided to create this thread.

Attached to this post you will find all the submenus I have created (together with @JoelMk2's airport submenus from this post). It covers a good amount of common plugins that often come with a lot of menu items. Now, it's a bit challenging for me to know what other common plugins are around, and that's why I would like to make this a community project. I invite you to put the submenus from the attachment somewhere in your plugins folder - preferrably after the submenu DLL - and then have a look in the game which items you would like to see moved into a submenu. If you know Node.js, you can directly contribute on GitHub, but if not, you can simply post a reply in this topic. I will need the following things:

• A link to where the plugin can be downloaded. Ideally I'd like to focus on plugins that are available on sc4pac as that makes it easy for me to install & test the plugins.
• A clear description to which menu button the lots need to be added to. For example: Landmarks/Entertainment/Stadiums & arenas
• If a new menu button needs to be created, I need the name of the menu and a square image (size doesn't really matter, but the icon will be 44x44 in the end) that will be used as menu icon.

Alternatively, if you have already created submenus with my sc4 cli tool, then you can also attach the generated files to your post, as I have scripts in place that can read in the generated files and add them to the submenu collection.

While creating the submenus, I've noticed that it's not always immediately clear what the best fit for a lot is. I've basically gone with my intuition, so if you ask for a plugin to be added to a submenu, but I feel that it would be a better fit somewhere else, we can discuss it here as well. If you prefer a different layout of your submenus, you can clone the GitHub repo and reorder the .txt files inside the src folder as you see fit.

Please note: do NOT take this file and upload it on the STEX. It is in a very preliminary state, and I'm looking for feedback to polish it further and to over as many common plugins as possible, before releasing it as production ready on the STEX. You will be able to find the latest releases on GitHub, but beware that things might change quickly (i.e. items moving to different menus, based on how I see fit).

Let's finally clean up the in-game menus and make the game enjoyable to play with tons of custom content! 🔥Below you'll find some screenshots of my new in-game menus to brighten up this post a bit:

 

 

submenus.zip

  Edited January 31, 2025 by smf_16  

[rsc204 21,808]

3 hours ago, smf_16 said:

Let's finally clean up the in-game menus and make the game enjoyable to play with tons of custom content! 🔥

Absolutely. I did this manually about a year ago and it’s transformative.

Thanks for your work on this, I know first hand how much time the tool you created will save, not to mention how much more accessible you’ve made it.

[Andreas Roth 607]

I'll definitely try this out! Looking at your screenshots, I can see that you had similar ideas, such as grouping all the custom stadiums in the Landmark menu (one could argue that there's the "sports facilities" button in the park menu, but I'd say this should be used for small neighborhood items rather than big stadiums). Personally, I also put all the Maxis landmarks in a custom submenu, which conveniently emptied the main menu quite a bit.

Having a central repository is definitely a good idea, although every player might have personal preferences, but then again, your tool allows making custom menus easily. I'd say that there should be a public place for the established sets (all the different park sets, paths, airports and whatnot) in particular, but maybe we can agree on some default menus like your "Stadiums & Arenas", or a "Churches & Religious buildings" one for the Landmark menu in particular. I also like your "Agricultural Scenes" button, there's so much ploppable "flora" for this that the flora menu is rather overcrowded alright.

[smf_16 1,835]

34 minutes ago, Andreas Roth said:

 Looking at your screenshots, I can see that you had similar ideas, such as grouping all the custom stadiums in the Landmark menu (one could argue that there's the "sports facilities" button in the park menu, but I'd say this should be used for small neighborhood items rather than big stadiums).

I initially had them in the Parks/Sports facilities menu, but then I noticed that the native Landmarks/Entertainment button of the Submenus DLL had "Stadiums, opera houses, theaters, nightclubs, casino's, etc." in its description, so I though it made more sense to have them there. So I went with big stadiums (where professional sporters would play) go in landmarks, sports grounds (where hobby sporters would play) go in the parks. Of course there are edge cases, such as for example this one.

There's something that I'm considering though which could be useful in these cases: dual buttons. I haven't tried it yet, but from what I understand it is possible to have items appear in multiple menus. I can implement the logic somehow in my build script that the stadiums & arena's submenu gets copied in the Parks/Sports field menu, so you can have them in both. Of course we should be wary of abusing this, but I see other uses cases for this. For example, we could have a dedicated submenu where content is listed per creator. That could be useful if you're looking for a specific piece of content, but have trouble to find locate it. Then you could just go to that creator's menu. Likewise, all ploppable NYBT buildings could be grouped in a submenu as well, which is useful if you're building a New-York themed city to have all your buildings at hand. I'm going to do some experiments with this.

40 minutes ago, Andreas Roth said:

Personally, I also put all the Maxis landmarks in a custom submenu, which conveniently emptied the main menu quite a bit.

I like this idea. Do you happen to have a list of all TGIs that Maxis uses for their landmarks? If you have already created a submenu for this, that would be perfect, then I can extract them from there.

41 minutes ago, Andreas Roth said:

Having a central repository is definitely a good idea, although every player might have personal preferences, but then again, your tool allows making custom menus easily. I'd say that there should be a public place for the established sets (all the different park sets, paths, airports and whatnot) in particular, but maybe we can agree on some default menus like your "Stadiums & Arenas", or a "Churches & Religious buildings" one for the Landmark menu in particular.

The good thing about all of this, is that you can override submenus just like with any plugin. Hence I also see this project as an opnionated "extension set" for the Submenus DLL. Don't like where a certain lot is put? Then you can just override the patch with a new patch generated with my cli tool and make sure it loads after it. If there's really a need, it could even be possible to release multiple variants of the collection, but we have to make sure it doesn't get out of hand of course.

I can also see it happening that eventually some menus get "promoted" to the Submenus DLL - I mainly think of the flora submenus for example - but that's up to @memo to decide of course. I would make the distinction between "official submenus" and "extension submenus" based on the icons, where official submenus get @Panda's icons, and add-on menus get the hamburger icon.

[memo 1,445]

2 hours ago, smf_16 said:

dual buttons. I haven't tried it yet, but from what I understand it is possible to have items appear in multiple menus. I can implement the logic somehow in my build script that the stadiums & arena's submenu gets copied in the Parks/Sports field menu, so you can have them in both.

Lots can appear in multiple submenus, but other items can't at this point, for technical reasons. In particular, the same submenu button cannot appear in multiple menus, so you'd have to duplicate the entire submenu.

Generally, I tend to think it helps if the submenu categories are orthogonal to each other. It makes it easier to locate an item in the menus and easier for plugin authors to put items in the right menus. If there are menus with some semantic overlap, this could lead to inconsistencies where some items should belong to both menus but appear just in one or the other. Your automation techniques could alleviate that to some extent, for the content covered by your project at least.

For example, initially there were discussions about whether transit stations supporting multiple travel types should simply appear in each submenu corresponding to a supported travel type. However, organizing those transit submenus without overlap seems more intuitive, as otherwise you'd get a lot of clutter you wouldn't expect in those menus.

I'd be happy to incorporate some of the generic submenus into the Submenus DLL. The flora menus are long overdue – there just wasn't an agreed upon standard. Personally, I'd recommend aiming for a rather flat structure for these generic menus that don't belong to some specific set. It's fine if these seem kind of full if you categorize large amounts of content, as nobody will have all that content in their Plugins.

[Andreas Roth 607]

10 hours ago, smf_16 said:

Do you happen to have a list of all TGIs that Maxis uses for their landmarks? If you have already created a submenu for this, that would be perfect, then I can extract them from there

Yes, I do.  For the downloads that Maxis provided, it was easy, because all I had to do was putting the files in a folder and run your tool over it. For the ones in the game, I was extracting the exemplar files from the in-game DATs with the Reader and then used the tool to build the Cohort file, IIRC. The attachment contains a button for the submenu, and two Cohort files - one for the in-game ones and one for the downloads. There's also a basic English and German menu description so far.

The icon that I used is one of the unused icons that @Panda made, so it looks "official" - maybe that could be integrated into the DLL download? But I guess we could also use some generic icon with a Maxis logo or whatever else. I'm not entirely sure if I caught all the Maxis landmarks that are available, but I carry them around since ever (maybe except one or another weird one).

As for the Flora menu, I agree with @memo, there should be some basic entries like trees, flowers, rocks and whatnot, and if somebody needs a more extensive set, he could create his own submenus (or get some pre-made ones for popular sets).

BTW, what happens if a user doesn't have a certain download, but the TGIs are in a Cohort file for putting them in a submenu? Will the game just ignore those?

submenu-maxis-landmarks.dat

[memo 1,445]

1 hour ago, Andreas Roth said:

BTW, what happens if a user doesn't have a certain download, but the TGIs are in a Cohort file for putting them in a submenu? Will the game just ignore those?

Yes, this has no effect. Exemplar Patches (the Cohort files) are initially loaded when starting the game and are then applied to matching Exemplars on demand whenever an Exemplar is loaded. Hence, if an Exemplar is not in your Plugins, the patch will not have an effect.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Ah, that's good to know. So in theory, if someone wanted a "creator's submenu", as @smf_16 mentioned above, there could be some "official" submenu-sftb.dat that would group all the SFBT releases, and if someone wants to sort his stuff in that way, he could simply install such a download, regardless which SFBT lots are actually installed. Once everything is registered in the repository, I guess it would be possible to auto-generate submenu files based on the preferences of the user, such as grouping per author/BAT group, a special topic like New York stuff and whatnot. That opens quite some possibilities. 

[smf_16 1,835]

Thanks for the Maxis landmarks. I think you missed one: Grand Central. I integrated them in the Maxis landmarks menu and created a new release that you can download here: https://github.com/sebamarynissen/sc4-submenu-collection/releases/tag/v0.1.3 I have setup a GitHub automation for creating releases, so expect very frequent updates.

I've also refactored my code so that lots can be added to multiple menus easily. Tested it with the Stadiums & Arenas, and it works nicely. This opens up the way to having items in multiple menus easily, but we'll still have to see whether it's something actually useful.

10 minutes ago, Andreas Roth said:

Ah, that's good to know. So in theory, if someone wanted a "creator's submenu", as @smf_16 mentioned above, there could be some "official" submenu-sftb.dat that would group all the SFBT releases, and if someone wants to sort his stuff in that way, he could simply install such a download, regardless which SFBT lots are actually installed.

Yes, but there's one caveat. If you do it this way (and have the submenu-sfbt.dat load last), then the lots will be removed from their original menus. If you want to keep them in their original menus, then the TGI's need to be in the same exemplar patch where both button ids are added. So, a possible approach for example is to assign "creator menu ids" on request, and then every creator can add both the "normal" menu button id to their building exemplar, and their own creator id. This then allows them to freely choose whether they install the "official creator menu". It's an approach I'm considering for my repository: providing the creator submenus as a separate download.

15 minutes ago, Andreas Roth said:

and if someone wants to sort his stuff in that way, he could simply install such a download, regardless which SFBT lots are actually installed

This is actually one of the reasons I'm building this submenu collection. Eventually I'd like to create something that a new player can just "plug 'n play" in their plugins folder without having all the content needed. The more content they download, the more of the submenus will be revealed.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Thanks for catching the issue with the Grand Central Station! The reason why I omitted it in the Maxis Landmark submenu is because I modded the original lot into a transit hub and placed it into the new Multimodal Station menu in my game. I didn't double-check if I included the TGI into the Maxis Landmark submenu before I uploaded the file, though.

I'm not sure if people want to have the lots showing up in different menus, but it's good to know that your tool covers this properly now. Eventually, using the "plug 'n play" approach would be the best way to cover all the issues that may arise.

One thing I wonder about: If Maxis would have foreseen the immense success of SC4 and the huge amount of custom content, would they have created some kind of package manager on their own? There used to be the official download site for custom lots, and the upload function relied on the included XML file. Back when the BSC saw all the flaws in custom content, and also pirating stuff, there was the suggestion that all BSC releases should omit the XML file, hence it was not possible anymore to upload those files to the Maxis exchange.

Whenever we look under the hood of the game, there's so many unfinished stuff that was under development, but never included due to time constraints, budget cuts and whatnot. I'm glad the community picked this up eventually, even now, more than 20 years later. SC4 truly is a timeless game, and I hope we'll be able to play it for another 20 years (or at least make new content, since that's fun as well). 

[Null 45 3,041]

4 hours ago, Andreas Roth said:

If Maxis would have foreseen the immense success of SC4 and the huge amount of custom content, would they have created some kind of package manager on their own?

I doubt it, I think SC4 predates the modern digital DLC era by several years. Steam didn't exist at the time SC4 was released, and many users would probably have been using dial up internet. Maxis was also constrained by the systems SC4 had to run on at release. Windows 98 with a 500 MHz Pentium 3.

[simmering 2,641]

I must admit, I have struggled with the standard submenu mod. I thought that I could not use it whiteout acquiring at least some basic modding skills. But your initiative, @smf_16, might just solve this for us mere players. It is already a great help. So thank you very much. Here are my first suggestions:

1. Scoty Modular Parking
   MISCELLANEOUS TRANSPORTATION/PARKING
2. Power line pack
   BUILD POWER SYSTEMS/MISCELLANEOUS POWER

I realise that these are not yet on sc4pac so feel free to just add them to the list for now.

One more question: Can this tool also rearrange the menu for NAM features? I would really like having the FLEXFly Menu split and have MIS and RHW4 separate.

[kergelen 735]

On 23/2/2025 at 12:34 AM, simmering said:

I must admit, I have struggled with the standard submenu mod. I thought that I could not use it whiteout acquiring at least some basic modding skills. But your initiative, @smf_16, might just solve this for us mere players. It is already a great help. So thank you very much. Here are my first suggestions:

1. Scoty Modular Parking
   MISCELLANEOUS TRANSPORTATION/PARKING
2. Power line pack
   BUILD POWER SYSTEMS/MISCELLANEOUS POWER

I realise that these are not yet on sc4pac so feel free to just add them to the list for now.

One more question: Can this tool also rearrange the menu for NAM features? I would really like having the FLEXFly Menu split and have MIS and RHW4 separate.

Hi simmering,

You can use the submenu I've created for Scoty Modular Parking (MISCELLANEOUS TRANSPORTATION/PARKING) some weeks ago.

I attach the submenu and patch

 

I've also created several submenus for PAENG parks, scoty walls, scoty paths, ALN paths, KOSC Community parks and some more submenus. @smf_16 is ok for you I attach the submenus I've created here? Or are you coordinating with someone else to create submenus?

I'm in the proces to create submenus for my plugins, and it will be great to somehow coordinate submenu creation

submenu-scoty-modular-parking.dat

scoty_modular_parking_patch.dat

[kergelen 735]

On 24/2/2025 at 9:46 PM, kergelen said:

Hi simmering,

You can use the submenu I've created for Scoty Modular Parking (MISCELLANEOUS TRANSPORTATION/PARKING) some weeks ago.

I attach the submenu and patch

 

I've also created several submenus for PAENG parks, scoty walls, scoty paths, ALN paths, KOSC Community parks and some more submenus. @smf_16 is ok for you I attach the submenus I've created here? Or are you coordinating with someone else to create submenus?

I'm in the proces to create submenus for my plugins, and it will be great to somehow coordinate submenu creation

submenu-scoty-modular-parking.dat

scoty_modular_parking_patch.dat

I have uploaded several submenus:

 

[dovieandi 10]

Hi, haven't posted in about...oof...12 years.

Just came out of the woodwork to say that the submenu dll and this community effort to share submenus has got me back into SimCity4. Thank you all for your incredible work! ❤️

[Max4k 721]

On 2/24/2025 at 12:46 PM, kergelen said:

Hi simmering,

You can use the submenu I've created for Scoty Modular Parking (MISCELLANEOUS TRANSPORTATION/PARKING) some weeks ago.

I attach the submenu and patch

 

I've also created several submenus for PAENG parks, scoty walls, scoty paths, ALN paths, KOSC Community parks and some more submenus. @smf_16 is ok for you I attach the submenus I've created here? Or are you coordinating with someone else to create submenus?

I'm in the proces to create submenus for my plugins, and it will be great to somehow coordinate submenu creation

submenu-scoty-modular-parking.dat

scoty_modular_parking_patch.dat

 

Hello, I have your Vol. 1 & 2 Submenu packs but I noticed it alters and physically removes the PEG Pond water from Flora Paint Menu.  There are 3 missing that I know of offhand.  The PEG Pond Water 1" or something,  the 1/4 PEG Pond Water and the Pond Water with Lilly Pads.

If I remove the whole folder with Vol. 1 & 2 gives me those options back in Flora Menu.  

[AsimPika3172 1,136]

Thanks for nice submenu! I hope Tariel stuffs need submenu, RLM need submenu etc  👷