Custom Queries for Custom Buildings

[Null 45 3,087]

1 hour ago, Kel9509 said:

I'm not sure if the numbers from the DLL can remove the commas, but it's up to Null.  

I can remove the commas from the numbers, but it wouldn't apply to the game.x variables that SC4 formats. You would have to use #s@game.x# to override the game's default number formatting in that case.

4 hours ago, Nite Owl said:

The Current Jobs number in the top left of the first image has no comma separation for the numbers; 4144 as opposed to 4,144. All other numbers that are beyond 999 are comma separated. Mentioned for consistency's sake and so as to not trigger an OCD incident in myself and possibly others.

I am not sure what the best approach is here. It appears that Maxis only used commas for currency values in their query dialogs, and the currency values only use them if the current language does. So even the base game is inconsistent in this area.

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

4 minutes ago, Null 45 said:

I am not sure what the best approach is here.

Can you parse the Maxis string into two number variables? Then wouldn't they show up with automatic commas like all the other numbers you push forward into the UI?

[Kel9509 1,476]

42 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

So what about adding a space, then an equal sign, then another space between the § and the number?

Here's how it looks:

For buildings with lots of workers, the numbers will get pretty close to the descriptive items on the left and I actually might need some more space if this is the consensus. While this might be very crystal clear, I think the equals sign is a bit of a waste of space.  What does everyone else think?

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

/me votes for the non-bold on the Actual Jobs line.

[Null 45 3,087]

3 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Can you parse the Maxis string into two number variables?

No, but I could add new query variables that recreate the Maxis calculations. That would be better for compatibility than patching the game's formatting code, as a query dialog would have to opt-in to using it. For the variable names I am thinking of using current_jobs_total and max_jobs_total.

[Nite Owl 79]

Whatever can be done without an extremely extra amount of fuss and fumbling will more than suffice. If commas cannot be added to just that one set of numbers without sacrificing all of the other comma delineated numbers then living with it shall be the way of things. Coping mechanisms will be applied accordingly.

[Andreas Roth 616]

I appreciate that you're trying to put even more work in the formatting, but I think that all the different fonts and additional symbols aren't really an improvement after all. I would assume that Maxis used a PNG file for the § in the "wealth" row because the default symbol looked so puny, and if that's the case, then go ahead and just keep the $ sign, even though that's not really correct. Just the space between it and the values should improve the readability enough, I think (and if not, try a colon here instead). Using different fonts, even though they look similar, but not the same, is triggering my OCD, though. 

[Kel9509 1,476]

27 minutes ago, Andreas Roth said:

I would assume that Maxis used a PNG file for the § in the "wealth" row because the default symbol looked so puny, and if that's the case, then go ahead and just keep the $ sign, even though that's not really correct.

You've got to be kidding me...  Heh.  And I just got done replacing all "$" with "§" in this:

I apologize for triggering everyone's OCD, apparently including my own since I'm now seeing where else I can do this.  I promise I'll do my best to make things look right, and readable, and user-friendly.  But I want to see what the RCI query looks like with the remaining dollar signs replaced, as there are a lot of them all over the descriptions of things.  If it really looks ugly, let me know.  

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

5 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

I want to see what the RCI query looks like with the remaining dollar signs replaced, as there are a lot of them all over the descriptions of things.

That looks good with them replaced.

And if you get to the point where suggestions are mutually exclusive you simply pick the one which pleases you the most.

[Kel9509 1,476]

17 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

That looks good with them replaced.

Yeah I thought so too.  

For the jobs lines, I've settled on a non-bold font using an equal sign as follows:

The way it looks now seems a good balance between ensuring the numbers can be easily understood, and also providing enough space.  I'm worried that adding more extra spaces will really push things out to the left, and I don't want that for larger CAM buildings, where each wealth level could be represented by thousands of jobs.

Right now I'm finishing up all checks and am taking screenshots for a new version.  I've decided it's enough of an upgrade to go up to version 3.  I hope to upload it soon.

[Kel9509 1,476]

I've updated the RCI DLL Query to version 3.0, reflecting the changes in this thread.  There are also multiple style choices.  In addition to keeping the older style of vertical with a full building list and vertical with building styles in tooltips, I added the Horizontal Bold query, as well as Bold vertical options that are actually slightly less lengthy than the older vertical styles (because I made them slightly wider).

 

[Andreas Roth 616]

Thanks for all the work, even including multiple styles! I guess everyone will find a version that suits best for the specific needs. 

[Kel9509 1,476]

Back to my Department of Transportation buildings.  I received some very good help from @Lucario Boricua on some information in the Query tooltips.  Also, he suggested adding Average Commute Times.  With @CorinaMarie's help, I was able to add in the values for the 1-month, 6-month, and 12-month average commute times:

However, I'm concerned that Commute Time is essentially meaningless or very hard to understand.  Not that I have a problem with odd stats, since I have all those tile count amounts that aren't precise (and explained in the tooltips).

But Commute Time is a real problem, as Z explained:

Quote

Commute Time Graph Scaling Factor:  Please note:  The Commute Time Graph was not implemented properly in SC4, and as a result, it is impossible to configure it to give consistently correct readings.  Nevertheless, many people like to use this graph, and on occasion, it can provide useful information.

The original Maxis traffic simulator (as well as all versions of SImulators C, D, and E) allowed the Sims a mere six minutes to get from their homes to their jobs.  This obviously seemed awfully short even to Maxis, who multiplied this number by 25 in the original Commute Time Graph.  This ratio of 25:1 is also reflected in places such as the Prima Guide, which claims that the Sims have 2.5 hours to reach their jobs - exactly 25 times six minutes.  You can restore this original factor to the Commute Time Graph display by setting this field to 1.  However, you will get some ridiculously high numbers on your graph, since Simulator Z does not limit commute times to six minutes.

You might expect that to see the actual commute time, you would simply set this scaling factor to 0.04, which is the decimal equivalent of 1/25.  This actually works in small cities that have no neighbors.  There are some anomalies in the way that commute times are computed, though, and these start to show up in larger cities.

The whole picture changes if you have neighboring cities, though.  The average commute time starts increasing in proportion to the amount of traffic you have between cities.  This may sound reasonable in theory, but in practice you can end up with one-way commute times of twelve hours or more, even with a scaling factor of 0.04.

For these reasons, the scaling factor in Simulator Z has been set to 0.015.  This results in commute times that are too short if you have just a small, single city, but it gives commute times that are too long if you have a big city with a large amount of intercity traffic.  For average size cities with an average amount of intercity traffic, it gives commute times that are approximately correct.  You may still see commute times vary greatly from one city to the next, though, even though the two cities may be very similar in everything except the amount of traffic going in and out of them.

In any case, the scaling factor is now available for you to adjust to whatever value seems to make sense to you.  You may still want to adjust it from one city to the next, though, even in the same region.

In general, to get reliable information about the commuting habits of your Sims, the Route Query Tool, Traffic Data Views, and Traffic Volume Graph will be much more helpful than the Commute Time Graph.  (Note that the Traffic Volume Graph shows the number of trips, and not commute times.  Also, Sims who take multiple forms of transportation to get to work will show up in multiple places on this graph.)

I can provide these average amounts, but will basically need to explain that the numbers become very broken in larger cities and are essentially meaningless.  Also, since @Null 45 mentioned that the traffic stats in the traffic simulator haven't been fully decoded yet, it's unlikely that a "fix" for showing proper Commute Time exists.  Still, it might be nice to see the #s anyway.

[Kel9509 1,476]

Not sure if I should go down this road or not, so I'd appreciate some criticism.  

Adding the Average Commute Time (multiplied by the NAM scaling factor of 0.015) made me wonder if it'd be helpful to see Traffic Volumes for short-term periods.  The bar graphs can be useful overall, but would it be good to see a 1-month or 6-month or 12-month average?

Adding all of the Traffic Volumes except Ferries gives me enough room in another column.  If needed to distinguish them, I can add them in colored text using the exact same color that Maxis used in the Bar Graph.  I was able to get the exact color from the exemplar, using the 3 entries and putting them together according to this color wheel, which converted them to RGB values I could use in the Query.  I'll be honest that I don't like the colors at all but wanted to get thoughts about it.

As I said, this is merely a work-in-progress draft.  Most of this is placeholders so please don't worry about the actual text for now.  I'm just wondering about the idea itself.

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

9 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

Adding the Average Commute Time (multiplied by the NAM scaling factor of 0.015)

Are you doing that from both variables? Or is the NAM scaling factor of 0.015 something you will have to hard code in place? I ask cause not everyone uses 0.015.

And, isn't the Average Commute Time already adjusted by whatever that is set to?

 

9 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

I'll be honest that I don't like the colors at all but wanted to get thoughts about it.

I'm not keen on the colors either. I believe they'd go much better in the background like Roberta does for AMPs or CB did for our City Hall Fixes.

Otherwise, it at least needs some vertical separation between some of them.

[Kel9509 1,476]

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Are you doing that from both variables? Or is the NAM scaling factor of 0.015 something you will have to hard code in place? I ask cause not everyone uses 0.015.

And, isn't the Average Commute Time already adjusted by whatever that is set to?

I'm doing it for the Average Commute times, because if I didn't I'd get a very large number (in the thousands).  I'm not sure if there's a way around doing that for people who don't have the NAM.  It's not for the Traffic Volumes, though.  Those raw #s are what's reported in the graph.

 

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I'm not keen on the colors either. I believe they'd go much better in the background like Roberta does for AMPs or CB did for our City Hall Fixes.

Otherwise, it at least needs some vertical separation between some of them.

I'll try something.  I wonder if 3 variables for each is overkill.  I can separate them better if I only use 2.  

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

8 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

Those raw #s are what's reported in the graph.

Really? I seem to recall when I first started using NAM (like v36) and my graph went from what I'd previously thought was normal to silly numbers like 0.2.

 

8 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

I wonder if 3 variables for each is overkill.  I can separate them better if I only use 2.

I'd guess 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 or such would help. Just whatever makes sense for the type of data. I know your post for that right hand column was just getting the territory marked and testing the colors. Once you have real data showing up in your tests you'll see what feels comfy to your eyes.

[Kel9509 1,476]

Unfortunately my work on these queries will need to pause for an indefinite time.  My 14 year old custom-made computer finally decided to quit on me, and my last backup is only from December 2024.  I'll have to rip out my old HD to grab the latest files, and first I need to build a new computer, which unfortunately I'm not looking forward to since I will do almost anything to avoid Windows 11 and stick with Windows 10.

So the Department of Transportation will need to be paused for now.  Hopefully within a month I will be back and running.  Right now I'm posting using my wife's 5-year old Dell laptop (which is also in need of a replacement).  I might be able to create and edit some other items while I'm building a new PC, so we'll see.

I'm also nervous about getting a new GPU.  nVidia is what I've always used but they are so expensive now, and also out of stock.  Does anyone have any luck with AMD's video cards?  Is there a thread here that might be worthwhile to read?

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

4 minutes ago, Kel9509 said:

My 14 year old custom-made computer finally decided to quit on me, and my last backup is only from December 2024.

Yikes!

Good luck with the file recovery and rebuild.

[Kel9509 1,476]

Just now, CorinaMarie said:

Yikes!

Yeah it's disappointing.  I was actually playing last night and did really well in my cities, too.  Thankfully, I'm not afraid of any file loss.  My old H50 water-cooler broke and my PSU is shot (I think), but the SSDs are ok so I can likely recover everything.  It's just a matter of getting back with a new system ASAP.  14 years is a good run...

[TogaMasterJohn 711]

15 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

Does anyone have any luck with AMD's video cards?  Is there a thread here that might be worthwhile to read?

I haven't had any issues with AMD at all. It's all I ever buy and use these days (especially as a Linux user), and it's what I recommend to my friends and family. To me, they're usually better bang for the buck, and they aren't nearly as power-hungry as modern-day NVIDIA GPUs (especially the high-end ones in the RTX 4000 and 5000 series lineups).

I'm hoping to upgrade my GPU at some point this year (and possibly build a new machine), and I'm currently thinking about going with the 9070 XT (once it drops, of course). 

[rsc204 21,863]

17 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

I'm also nervous about getting a new GPU.  nVidia is what I've always used but they are so expensive now, and also out of stock.  Does anyone have any luck with AMD's video cards?  Is there a thread here that might be worthwhile to read?

I've always in the past been a fan of AMD (ATI) videocards, I think they get an unfair rep, especially since commercial interests screw with their ability to compete fairly with NVidia. I only ended up with NVidia in my current PC because in early 2014 the latest AMD cards were all on backorder with a shocking premium added to the price. Meanwhile the 750ti I bought was a new generation (Maxwell), that used some of the most power-efficient chips for GPUs at the time. I wasn't after raw power after all, I just wanted to run SC4 well, something it did brilliantly and without needing the fan, keeping my silent computer silent.

The question really is what do you expect of a new Videocard, if you plan to play the latest games then you need to look for a card that can handle it. But if you are only interested in SC4, older is almost certainly better, within the realm of needing at least Win10 driver support, frankly I'd go second hand because new prices are fucking nuts.

Spoiler

$2,000 for a GPU that has design flaws that could start a fire! Bear in mind if you've got a 2k GPU, likely your system is close to 5k all in, if not more. Who on earth would risk that knowing what (informed folks) do? I hope someone sues NVidia when it does happen, because they aren't backing down on the issue either, total disdain for your loyal customers. What am I saying it's 2025, should I really be surprised the world works like this now?

If it were not for the slightly iffy driver support, these days I'd be looking at the Intel Dedicated GPUs, if you don't need crazy power they are far better bang for your buck.

[Andreas Roth 616]

If you only play SC4 and no modern game, you don't need a dedicated graphics card at all. I've been using AMD CPUs with integrated graphics since, I dunno, about 20 years now, and they always served me well for anything office/internet/multimedia/image editing related, and all of them were running SC4 just fine. Too bad the water cooling in your system started leaking, liquids and electricity don't mix all too well alright. But 14 years is a rather amazing time for a computer life, so I bet it's nice to get something new after all. Good luck with finding and assembling a new rig, and I hope the SSD with all the data is still fine! I did try Win11 recently, and was not amused at all, so I'm pondering how to stick around with Win10, but a computer that is connected to the internet all the time without regular updates is a bit of a security risk alright...

[rsc204 21,863]

I faced the same dilemma with Windows 10. Forced updates were a huge part of why I refused to leave Win7. Ultimately I switched to a Mac for day to day computing and kept the PC as my SC4 machine.

Integrated graphics are more than sufficient for SC4, but not necessarily perfect. I had planned to use the HD 4600 that came with my i7 CPU, but poor driver support forced my hand and I bought the 750ti. Around 2 years later those issues were solved with a driver update. Anecdotally from what I’ve observed around here, 1st gen ‘Intel HD graphics’ aren’t powerful enough, 3rd gen ‘HD 3000’ just never plays well with SC4. Anything beyond can work, but depend very much on the drivers, though a wrapper often resolves compatibility issues.

[Kel9509 1,476]

55 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

I faced the same dilemma with Windows 10. Forced updates were a huge part of why I refused to leave Win7. Ultimately I switched to a Mac for day to day computing and kept the PC as my SC4 machine.

I'm told there are ways of preventing forced updates to Win11, at least for now.  I have no problem running Win10 even if they get rid of support for it, at least until Windows 12 comes out (alternate versions are usually better).  I did the same thing with XP for years before I built the PC that just went kaput, when I got onto Win7 (which I upgraded to Win10 in 2019).  Security risks at the OS level are overblown for casual users.  The hackers are likely to go after banks, businesses, etc, on a system level.  The most security we probably need is decent browser security and a good password manager.  

So I'll take the subway over to the Brooklyn Micro Center tomorrow to see what they've got. @Andreas Roth I do play a bit of XWAUP as well and my old nvidia 660 was struggling with it so I'll try to find a nice midrange card.  If I can get a 3070 or a 4070 for an ok price, I think that'll be fine.  If it's really available, maybe I'll try the newer AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT.   I'll make sure the Micro Center guys either install a water cooler on the video card and a nicer power cable so the thing doesn't ignite. It'd be nice if I can get another 10 years out of this new build, hopefully.

Also, I realized that I do have my DOT query and lots saved, since I sent it over to @Lucario Boricua so it's attached to the mail.  So I can continue working on it a bit while I build a new PC.

[Propfam 2,295]

On 3/1/2025 at 8:46 AM, Kel9509 said:

Does anyone have any luck with AMD's video cards? 

Integrated Ryzen user here. It's quite good actually. Granted, it's 2400U, not some newer variants. But at least, it performs way better than my bro's laptop using 3050 6GB, thanks to not having problematic mux switch. And for the loading time, actually not that much. The improvement really comes in higher FPS, which would be nice if not for again, mux switch. I haven't tested with RX580 in previous build since it has been sold before I have chance to test SC4. But I bet it'll run as good as mine since it's using even older, but still close, Polaris architecture. So, if you want to build a cheap build solely for SC4 and such, go for integrated graphics or even cheaper, RX580 with some cheap i3s/i5s.

And these days, you can get even more performance for relatively cheap (compared to Nvidia's ofc) thanks to the new Strix Halo APUs. Framework even has one and since you live in the US, it should be ready for at least a preorder for as little as a bit above one grand. Granted, since this is a new chip, expect shortages and insanely long delivery (Q3!). But if time isn't an issue or if you need a more permanent build, this might be a solid choice. Bonus point, it has at least 32 gigs that can be used by all tasks, including even machine learning if that's your thing. So I don't know about the compatibility. But as always, use wrapper and most importantly, try it.

On 3/1/2025 at 8:46 AM, Kel9509 said:

avoid Windows 11

Well, I think the best way is to use Wine thru Bottles or use a more gaming-focused distro like Garuda. Win10 will eventually lose support for lots of apps, so I think it's not a good choice. Not to mention, Microsoft will charge $61 if you want more updates coming forward. Alternatively, if you do have dual GPU setup (which is common on builds that's not using F-type CPUs), you can have the 10 on a VM for SC4, Reader, etc and use Linux for the rest.

Good luck with your build.

 

On 3/2/2025 at 5:03 AM, rsc204 said:

3rd gen ‘HD 3000’ just never plays well with SC4.

I don't really know what version of driver I used. I was just using the most up-to-date driver available for my laptop, which has 2520M. But I vividly remember I can run SC4 there and the performance, if not for HDD, was just a bit slower than my HD 4400 laptop. Aside from the slow CPU and HDD, it doesn't randomly stutter with the current my bro's laptop. And I can run it both on Windows and Linux, at native resolution.

On 3/2/2025 at 2:07 AM, rsc204 said:

$2,000 for a GPU

Try $2.5k, and that's the official Nvidia MSRP. I live in Indonesia where everything imported is just more expensive. A 5080 can cost you almost $2k. And yes, there's not any founders edition ever released in my country. So everything is an AIB, along with their things, which only pushes the price up. You can't even find a 5090 for under $4k. Most of them is on $5k range. And that's just for the GPU. The total build with 5090 can cost $7k. Adding appropriate monitors, keyboard, etc would obviously significantly above that. The positive side however is 5090 has more chance to actually exist than in other markets. But that's due to no one, except the ultra rich, would buy them, and not because Nvidia has given Indonesia more 5090s. Another bonus is electricity in Indonesia is really cheap, if you have enough money, around 10 US cents per kWh. So, you don't have to worry about electric bill shooting up to the roof if you're using any power-hogging GPUs.

[Null 45 3,087]

2 hours ago, Propfam said:

The total build with 5090 can cost $7k.

Based on the specs in the link, that machine also has 192 GB or RAM and 20 TB of SSD space. So it appears to be more oriented to 3D modeling or video editing then gaming. A similar config on PCPartPicker is currently ~5800 USD, and I added the 5090 using the MSRP of the cheapest 3rd-party card on NVIDIA's site.

[Kel9509 1,476]

I'm back to testing the Dept of Transportation Query.  As before, I was working on the Average volume information for each transportation type.  I removed the colors from the text and added the real values into the query, and separated them by adding line dividers.  I'm playing around with the wording of the text (12-month vs. yearly, or including the word "volume" or not, for instance).  I left the actual values colored since I think it's not as bad as the entire row being colored.

Also, I kept some of the colors as a highlight so that when you hover over the text, the color changes to the appropriate color of the transportation category:

Still working on tooltip info obviously.  Any criticism?

[CorinaMarie 29,864]

I like your dividers, colored numbers, and colored highlights very much. That really helps one's eye find the info without being overwhelmed.  

[marcio1977 210]

18 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

I'm back to testing the Dept of Transportation Query.  As before, I was working on the Average volume information for each transportation type.  I removed the colors from the text and added the real values into the query, and separated them by adding line dividers.  I'm playing around with the wording of the text (12-month vs. yearly, or including the word "volume" or not, for instance).  I left the actual values colored since I think it's not as bad as the entire row being colored.

Also, I kept some of the colors as a highlight so that when you hover over the text, the color changes to the appropriate color of the transportation category:

Still working on tooltip info obviously.  Any criticism?

Great work!

But, since you asked, I couldn't help but move a few things around:

As below, I put general information in the first column, paths in the second and third and in the fourth, I tried to reduce repeated words (see exemples for "Pedestrian" and "Sub/Light Rail")

I don't know the technicalities and feasibility, so you can disregard if I went too far.