Problems with Bipin lots

[MissVanleider 1,850]

Hoping that this is an OK place to post this, it's a quickish question. Mods feel free to remove this to another thread if better suited.

So I have never experienced this problem before, I wondered if this was a known issue with these mods in particular or if I have made some clear error (which is extremely likely to be the case).

I have this roundabout filler in my city, which I am 99.99% sure was made by Bipin, but not sure exactly which download I got it from. I think I downloaded almost everything Bipin ever made, and I really love the roundabout.

However, when I use the enquiry tool on it, it is described as 'WMP allotment K', one of the many allotment LOTs from (unsurprisingly) the WMP allotment pack.

Now, I have downloaded a lot of SC4 content over the years, but I dont always use all of it. This is true of the WMP allotments, and of a lot of Bipin's content which, whilst beautiful, can seem quite contextual and not 100% straightforward to just plop down.

I thought that was weird, and when I go to my Parks menu, I noticed some more weirdness. (usually I am scrolling past quickly for something I have a rough idea of where it is in my insanely long park menu, and I dont look at the menu icons until I have reached enough 'scrolls' down the menu to start looking for the lot I want, so I didnt notice this before) Anyway - the icons in the menu do go a bit (well, actually totally) invisible around the WMP allotment stuff like this:

Or this: - Now not invisible icons, but manifestly a 'non icon', here 'WMP allotment G', but (although probably hard to see here), not a 'non-icon' depicting anything remotely allotmentish.

In fact, when plopped, WMP allotment G looks like this; Very Bipin, from Bipin Industrial Essentials I am assuming. When enquiry tool is used on it it brings up lovely WMP description of WMP allotment G, so I think this industrial hulk basically acts in game as a place for city dwellers to have a plot to grow carrots, which is strange.

Now, hunting down 'WMP allotment K' in the menu. It wasn't hard and the odds were in my favour. The menu shown below, all such lots are described as 'WMP allotment K' from the top one down to the bottom. (I assume the one at the bottom with the nicer Icon is actually WMP allotment K) It does include the lovely roundabout filler looking lot in this list, and also this huge thing, which is Definitely from Bipin, but from another totally different download, in this case some urban highway retaining wall lots that I downloaded years ago and swore I would use one day. It is definitely not 'WMP Allotment K' though.

 

So the question part, which is indeed quick.

Do I:

1) Delete all these things including the lovely roundabout filler

2) Remove the WMP allotment stuff, and the Bipin stuff (some of which has the WMP as a dependency, I am sure even without checking) from my plugins

3a) forget these things ever existed, and don't download them again

3b) re-download the relevant files and hope that this does not re-occur upon doing that

3c) Ask the lovely people at Simtropolis if any of them know about this specific conflict and whether there is a known solution.   Already did that.

So I think really if you could confirm 1) and 2), and then select an option between 3a) and 3b) and give any extra exposition you desire, or not.  

If anyone reposts this last picture to the 'can't find it, ask here' thread looking for the retaining walls which are excellent, I can tell you it's this; 

saves you the trouble!

Thanks for reading.

[rsc204 21,806]

Query showing as a WMP is probably because BiPin used the WMP blank models as the buildings on his lots. Can easily be rectified by changing the relevant properties in the buildings exemplar.

The ‘not’ icon means an icon is corrupted/missing, meaning also the lot in question can not be plopped. Fix or replace the icon and all will be well.

BiPins retaining wall showing where it shouldn’t is almost certainly an ID conflict.

All this can be fixed, so I wouldn’t remove any files. If you can wait a week or so I’ll dig into it. Enjoying a few weeks in Cornwall right now with some lovely weather . Only have a phone and limited internet until I get back home. 

[MissVanleider 1,850]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Query showing as a WMP is probably because BiPin used the WMP blank models as the buildings on his lots. Can easily be rectified by changing the relevant properties in the buildings exemplar.

The ‘not’ icon means an icon is corrupted/missing, meaning also the lot in question can not be plopped. Fix or replace the icon and all will be well.

BiPins retaining wall showing where it shouldn’t is almost certainly an ID conflict.

All this can be fixed, so I wouldn’t remove any files. If you can wait a week or so I’ll dig into it. Enjoying a few weeks in Cornwall right now with some lovely weather . Only have a phone and limited internet until I get back home. 

Cornwall sounds fantastic, enjoy and thanks for the reply 

[rsc204 21,806]

On 24/04/2024 at 8:17 PM, MissVanleider said:

Now, hunting down 'WMP allotment K' in the menu. It wasn't hard and the odds were in my favour. The menu shown below, all such lots are described as 'WMP allotment K' from the top one down to the bottom. (I assume the one at the bottom with the nicer Icon is actually WMP allotment K) It does include the lovely roundabout filler looking lot in this list, and also this huge thing, which is Definitely from Bipin, but from another totally different download, in this case some urban highway retaining wall lots that I downloaded years ago and swore I would use one day. It is definitely not 'WMP Allotment K' though.

This is BiPin's CURB set, a specific RHW Interchange filler, which for some reason has the Lots ID'd identically to some from the WMP Allotments. I honestly haven't seen anything wrong with the WMP Allotment set, so I think all these problems are coming from BiPin's content.

BiPin - CURB.7z

For now, I've made new unique Lots, but I would like to make a few ease of use edits later, replace the original files with these for now and the ID conflict will at least be gone.

On 24/04/2024 at 8:17 PM, MissVanleider said:

I thought that was weird, and when I go to my Parks menu, I noticed some more weirdness. (usually I am scrolling past quickly for something I have a rough idea of where it is in my insanely long park menu, and I dont look at the menu icons until I have reached enough 'scrolls' down the menu to start looking for the lot I want, so I didnt notice this before) Anyway - the icons in the menu do go a bit (well, actually totally) invisible around the WMP allotment stuff like this:

So at this point I have yet to come across the same broken object, but this happens when a missing or corrupted icon exists. To find the exact cause you need to use the binary search method. If you have a folder for all BiPin content, temporarily remove it and see if the problem is gone, since it does appear likely from the positioning of the item, although it could be lot in theory. Either way keep removing contents until the problem is gone, then you know the last set you removed contains the issue. It really doesn't take as long as you might think to do this, if you use NAM, removing the Controller file during testing will hugely increase the load speed of SC4, i.e. less waiting each time you reload the game to check.

Remember don't save your game whilst testing like this. Once you can locate the specific file with the problem, you can upload it here or link to it's source and we can fix it.

On 25/04/2024 at 7:36 AM, MissVanleider said:

Cornwall sounds fantastic, enjoy and thanks for the reply 

It was very nice thanks.

I've yet to get to the Industrial stuff and the roundabout fillers, but it's on my todo list.

[MissVanleider 1,850]

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

This is BiPin's CURB set, a specific RHW Interchange filler, which for some reason has the Lots ID'd identically to some from the WMP Allotments. I honestly haven't seen anything wrong with the WMP Allotment set, so I think all these problems are coming from BiPin's content.

BiPin - CURB.7z

For now, I've made new unique Lots, but I would like to make a few ease of use edits later, replace the original files with these for now and the ID conflict will at least be gone.

So at this point I have yet to come across the same broken object, but this happens when a missing or corrupted icon exists. To find the exact cause you need to use the binary search method. If you have a folder for all BiPin content, temporarily remove it and see if the problem is gone, since it does appear likely from the positioning of the item, although it could be lot in theory. Either way keep removing contents until the problem is gone, then you know the last set you removed contains the issue. It really doesn't take as long as you might think to do this, if you use NAM, removing the Controller file during testing will hugely increase the load speed of SC4, i.e. less waiting each time you reload the game to check.

Remember don't save your game whilst testing like this. Once you can locate the specific file with the problem, you can upload it here or link to it's source and we can fix it.

It was very nice thanks.

I've yet to get to the Industrial stuff and the roundabout fillers, but it's on my todo list.

Really this is massively appreciated, might take me a few days to test as I am travelling until the later part of next week for work. Will follow this instruction / detail and feed back when possible.

 

In terms of looking at the roundabout and industrial stuff, absolutely no rush to look at this on my account. I am a very patient SC4 player. Happens with age, but i am sure this will benefit others too, as BiPin's content is really great!

Glad your trip was nice, will update when possible.

[MissVanleider 1,850]

On 09/05/2024 at 12:22 PM, rsc204 said:

BiPin - CURB.7z

For now, I've made new unique Lots, but I would like to make a few ease of use edits later, replace the original files with these for now and the ID conflict will at least be gone.

Hi There, sorry - time for a slightly ignorant question. 

Whilst I have the CURB in my plugins folder, I don't have any file names there that match the ones your 7z.  Do you mean replace the entire CURB subfolder I have with the folder you attached?

[rsc204 21,806]

Exactly, the point is don’t keep the old/original files. I’ve re-jigged stuff usually to make it easier to work with, hence the file renaming. 

[MissVanleider 1,850]

 

On 09/05/2024 at 12:22 PM, rsc204 said:

so I think all these problems are coming from BiPin's content

On 09/05/2024 at 12:22 PM, rsc204 said:

Once you can locate the specific file with the problem, you can upload it here or link to it's source and we can fix it.

Well, I can say that as usual you are bang on with your diagnosis and the solution. 

I have removed a big chunk of BiPin's content, (I think all, other than your retouched CURB lots and the stations etc. included with NAM) and my menus are all a lot happier. 

Power Menu:

removal of BiPin Industrial Essentials massively cleaned up the power menu. I assume that these conflict somehow with the WMP Power lots, as these are still in my plugins but now the Power Menu does not contain content with WMP based names that when plopped actually turns out to be one of BiPin's smokestacks or substations.

I also removed BiPins Gas Stations at the same time (against your advice, but to me at least I think it's clear that the industrial essentials and WMP power lots conflict somehow), I'll do a bit more testing later to see if the Gas Stations and Flup Portals are fine and can be re-integrated into my plugins. 

Parks Menu:

All the WMP stuff is now displaying normally, it seems to be partly a conflict with BiPin's CURB (which you fixed for us) Industrial Essentials and 'Turbout' 

 I also removed the previously mentioned Gas Stations as well as 'Flup portals' but these seem to display in the power menu, which is why I have included the 'Power Menu' section at the top of this post, despite not being mentioned at all in my OP.

In the course of this testing I found a few other examples with some possible conflicts (in Water Menu, Landmarks Menu) from entirely different users and will see if I can isolate the relevant files later.

For the moment, my assumption is that the issues are caused by:

BiPin Turbout

BiPin Industrial Essentials

BiPin CURB  Solved by the hero that is @rsc204

 

[MissVanleider 1,850]

So after a bit more messing about, I think that the 'FLUP Portals' by BiPin which I previously thought were innocent do indeed conflict with some other things lurking in my plugins. Whilst the icon shows the Flup Portal, the description I think comes from one of the WMP Power lots.

[rsc204 21,806]

On 18/05/2024 at 12:08 PM, MissVanleider said:

All the WMP stuff is now displaying normally, it seems to be partly a conflict with BiPin's CURB (which you fixed for us) Industrial Essentials and 'Turbout' 

I had a chance to take a further look at this today, in the case of the Turbout lots, there doesn't actually appear to be any conflict. Rather simply that all the lots in this set have used the WMP Allotment K as their 'template', but the names never got changed. But they can co-exist with the WMP lots just fine otherwise.

Bipin Turbout.7z

I did condense them into less files (sorry for those who dislike this, but its a huge time-saver for modders). I've moved them further down the parks menu away from the WMP lots, given them better names/descriptions and removed the need for the WMP dependency.

On 25/05/2024 at 1:06 PM, MissVanleider said:

Whilst the icon shows the Flup Portal, the description I think comes from one of the WMP Power lots.

Again this could just be because names weren't updated, it's the same reason you see a lot of Open Grass Area lots. It's a problem because until PIM-X, we couldn't really create new files, we had to find something else to start with and make a copy. So a ton of Properties get copied into the new lot, many of which may not actually be desirable. If one lot were overriding another, then you'd get problems like with the CURB set where the original goes missing in the process.

I do intend to look into the other sets mentioned too, Bipin made some really fantastic stuff, but a lot of it could really do with some tidying up from the modding side of things.