Congratulations, NAM Team!

[Propfam 2,289]

Hello,

I heard you are working on a subway override or as you marketed it, FLUPs revamp. Yes, we're getting the new FLUPs. I get frustated with current FLUPs implementation. I hope this will be the solution for those who are constantly working on FLUPs in dense cities. Imagine a FLUP system without manually placing routes one-by-one and space has to made for the routes. This is a game changer.

So, congratulations for NAM Team working for 17 years. Keep innovating. I think we can solve tunnel problem using the exact same way as the new FLUPs implementation. SimCity 4 may have lots of limitation but don't let the limitations restrict the innovation. Innovations should be appreciated and developed.

As a bonus, here are my ideas:

1. Traffic Filters. Yes, Ganaram made those in the past. But why NAM doesn't include those in the installation? We need those especially for those who want to develop BRT systems (yes I know the filter for BRT does exist currently for only for RHW-2). Not only that, we can finally create a HOV lane with just default NAM. Also, there are also null filters to prevent the traffic to passthrough. This is useful to make a decorative road, road only exists to decorate the city, not for functional purposes. Or, to separate one traffic from the others. This will enable some kind of traffic control in the game. Maybe, we can create a road network dedicated to just (if possible) mayor limo. I mean this: 
2. Diagonal bridge. Yes, DBE exists but it require the player to exit the game, put the mod on, play the game, build the bridge, exit the game, put the mod off, and play again. This isn't like that. This is a bridge revamp. So, player can directly make diagonal, adjacent, and custom bridge. At first, we only need certain amount of pylons available to choose similar to DBE. Then, we increase the variety of pylons to choose. So, if you want to recreate a cantilever bridge using new bridge implementation, that will be possible in the future.
3. More extensive FLEX implementation across the board.
4. (As mentioned above), tunnel workaround using subway override.
5. RRW for subway? But, I don't think this is useful.
6. Flexible ped(overs). Current implementation is purely puzzle based. The pedover will be revamped along with more varieties on curves etc. So, you can now create 90 degree smooth curve pedovers, much like C:S pedovers. Also, more ramp varieties not just the lift one.
7. Sound barriers, seawalls etc. This won't be in NAM of course. But, these mods will be worked by (maybe) the same people as NAM and will be using the Flex tech as NAM. So, we can create custom shaped seawalls, sound barriers like C:S.
8. Custom-shaped canals. Yes, canal pieces are plentiful but for some shapes, this isn't enough. So, this idea is connected with idea 7. The canal will be using flex tech instead of puzzle pieces and (for completion) the ploppable by respective canal mod. So, if you want to build fractional-angle canal, that's possible without plopping pieces dedicated for fractional-angle canal. Of course, this will in collaboration with Simgoobers or Callagrafx.
9. More street flexibility like roads. So, we can have fractional-angle streets, elevated streets, etc.
10. Extensive monorail replacement (I forgot the name). This is currently available on NAM 38 but we should develop it much further in the next versions.

Hope those idea will be discussed and implemented. Sorry for my words. Thanks for your attention.

[Tarkus 6,932]

Thanks for the kind words, @chfzdn--and indeed, the idea of the new Subway-based override is, much like the FLUPs system itself, intended to operate as an extension of tunnel functionality for Road/Highway-type networks.

To get to your other points:

1) Adding traffic filters is an interesting idea.  Prior to NAM 31, we did have a strict "no Lots" mandate, but struck that down with that release, due to the absurdity of adding new mass transit override networks (i.e. GLR, HSR, the various dual-networking options) but not including the stations necessary to make proper use of them.  We've been trying to cut down on lots and cosmetic options that require a lot of overhead to maintain, but adding an official NAM set of these would actually add some new functionality that isn't presently covered by the NAM. By the same token, toll booths would also potentially be something worth adding for the various override networks.  That said, I don't know when we'd get around to making this functionality.  And to answer your question regarding the mayor's limo, it is not a separate traffic type (it's a Car), and we can't add traffic types at this point, so that restriction is not possible.

2) Back in the early days of the SC4 community, someone asked a Maxis developer about the prospect of true diagonal bridges.  The response from the dev, IIRC, was that they began looking at it, and it basically boiled down to two options: add diagonal bridges, or make the Rush Hour Expansion pack.  Apparently, it was difficult enough for them (being the original devs with the source code, no less) that it was on par with making a full-on expansion pack!  As such, even if DLL modding progresses further (and it's at a snail's pace, given that there's only two modders with very heavy RL demands who have DLL-making capabilities), it's unfortunately little more than a pipe dream.  The DBE and its water draining system are going to be here for the long haul (and it's more likely that the DLL types would figure out how to do the water draining/refilling without having to close and reopen the game multiple times--that's an easier problem to solve).

3) Our plans long-term are to FLEX as much stuff as possible.  There have been exactly zero traditional puzzle pieces added to the NAM since NAM 33 in 2015, and everything new we've added has been either FLEX or draggable.  The RRW has been designed with this approach from the outset, and the hope is, within the next few releases, to have the RHW and NWM able to operate fully FLEX/draggable without puzzle pieces (perhaps minus the Cosmetic Pieces, though we're even looking at FTL-type solutions there). 

4) As mentioned, the "new FLUPs" is indeed going to effectively act as an extension of Road/Highway tunnel functionality.  We've not been able to get other transit types to work with Subway-based override networks, however (our attempts at Subway-based URail ran into some insurmountable issues that rendered it effectively unusable).

5) I don't expect "RealSubway" to become a thing--in large part because the base Subway network is a pretty strange beast and difficult to modify (there's some weird hardcoded stuff with it, as well as interconnection with the Pipe network--yes, Pipes are technically a network).

6) PedMall, PedOverpass, and PedTrail functionality is planned to receive quite a bit of attention in a future release, and going the FLEX/draggable route is absolutely a part of that plan.  Don't know just when it'll happen, but it's likely that a near-future release cycle (particularly since we've sped things up and gone to more of an "Agile" development plan) will feature such additions.  It's something I'm definitely interested in developing.

7) Sound barriers, retaining walls, and sea walls are Lots, and while we've loosened the once hardline restriction on inclusion of Lots in the NAM, it is indeed unlikely that they will become part of it.  Additionally, being Lots, such items are not controlled by the RUL files, and as such, cannot be FLEX.  I will say, though, that having Fractional Angle versions of these sorts of things (sound barriers, mainly--because of the slope/terrain end, walls would be extraordinarily tricky!) are definitely on my personal wishlist.

8) The current CAN-AM functionality doesn't really treat the various angles all that differently, so you can already sort of fudge doing Fractional Angle stuff with it on that end.  The actual outer pieces that aren't in the NAM's purview, however, are a different matter entirely, and there's also the fact that SimGoober has long since retired from the SC4 world (last logged in at SC4D in 2013, and ST in 2012--those "updates" to his STEX files are really just CB fixing the descriptions), and callagrafx, while still making the occasional cameo over at SC4D, hasn't made content for a long time, either.  I'd say that's unlikely at this point.

9) The Street network has purposely not gotten overpasses, since the general thought is that being intended as less-traveled networks in the overall functional hierarchy, they wouldn't merit the expense in RL, though this has been debated internally in recent years.  The addition of Fractional Angle Streets makes sense (particularly as the Streets do have Wide-Radius Curve functionality), though it's lower on the docket of potential FA expansion.  Conversion of the existing Road, Avenue, and RHW FA capabilities to FLEX pieces (as has been done with the RRW) is the main priority at the moment, since that'll mean ditching puzzle pieces, and also providing an entrance point (for Road) to be able to build FA content without all the current pattern memorization.

10) If you're referring to the Bullet Train Mod (BTM), a reskin of Monorail, that's been removed from the NAM itself, starting with NAM 37.  When we added it in NAM 31, it was already out-of-date (the RHW crossings were designed to RHW 5.0/NAM 30 specs, and rendered completely non-functional with the Project 57-era RHW that NAM 31 introduced), no longer maintained by its creator, and the prospect of getting it fully up-to-date and properly maintaining all the crosslinkage that's been added since is a massive task.  A few of us (myself, droric, and rsc204) have dabbled in it over the years, but there's just too much to add.  We'll probably re-release it as a separate download "Legacy" plugin (read: available, but as-is with no guarantee of technical support or updates), but that's as far as we'll go.  Ditto with the "Alternate El-Rail", which is in the same boat.

If, however, you're talking about HSR and Monorail-based override networks, while the current iteration of HSR is planned to be phased out/rendered "Legacy" at some point in the near future, Real High Speed Rail (RHSR) has been in planning since the NAM 33 development cycle, and is still in development.  The introduction of Hybrid Railway (HRW) in NAM 38 is a step on the path to RHSR's eventual addition, as it's designed to operate as an interlink between RRW and RHSR.

-Tarkus

[Propfam 2,289]

3 hours ago, Tarkus said:

Thanks for the kind words, @chfzdn--and indeed, the idea of the new Subway-based override is, much like the FLUPs system itself, intended to operate as an extension of tunnel functionality for Road/Highway-type networks.

To get to your other points:

1) Adding traffic filters is an interesting idea.  Prior to NAM 31, we did have a strict "no Lots" mandate, but struck that down with that release, due to the absurdity of adding new mass transit override networks (i.e. GLR, HSR, the various dual-networking options) but not including the stations necessary to make proper use of them.  We've been trying to cut down on lots and cosmetic options that require a lot of overhead to maintain, but adding an official NAM set of these would actually add some new functionality that isn't presently covered by the NAM. By the same token, toll booths would also potentially be something worth adding for the various override networks.  That said, I don't know when we'd get around to making this functionality.  And to answer your question regarding the mayor's limo, it is not a separate traffic type (it's a Car), and we can't add traffic types at this point, so that restriction is not possible.

2) Back in the early days of the SC4 community, someone asked a Maxis developer about the prospect of true diagonal bridges.  The response from the dev, IIRC, was that they began looking at it, and it basically boiled down to two options: add diagonal bridges, or make the Rush Hour Expansion pack.  Apparently, it was difficult enough for them (being the original devs with the source code, no less) that it was on par with making a full-on expansion pack!  As such, even if DLL modding progresses further (and it's at a snail's pace, given that there's only two modders with very heavy RL demands who have DLL-making capabilities), it's unfortunately little more than a pipe dream.  The DBE and its water draining system are going to be here for the long haul (and it's more likely that the DLL types would figure out how to do the water draining/refilling without having to close and reopen the game multiple times--that's an easier problem to solve).

3) Our plans long-term are to FLEX as much stuff as possible.  There have been exactly zero traditional puzzle pieces added to the NAM since NAM 33 in 2015, and everything new we've added has been either FLEX or draggable.  The RRW has been designed with this approach from the outset, and the hope is, within the next few releases, to have the RHW and NWM able to operate fully FLEX/draggable without puzzle pieces (perhaps minus the Cosmetic Pieces, though we're even looking at FTL-type solutions there). 

4) As mentioned, the "new FLUPs" is indeed going to effectively act as an extension of Road/Highway tunnel functionality.  We've not been able to get other transit types to work with Subway-based override networks, however (our attempts at Subway-based URail ran into some insurmountable issues that rendered it effectively unusable).

5) I don't expect "RealSubway" to become a thing--in large part because the base Subway network is a pretty strange beast and difficult to modify (there's some weird hardcoded stuff with it, as well as interconnection with the Pipe network--yes, Pipes are technically a network).

6) PedMall, PedOverpass, and PedTrail functionality is planned to receive quite a bit of attention in a future release, and going the FLEX/draggable route is absolutely a part of that plan.  Don't know just when it'll happen, but it's likely that a near-future release cycle (particularly since we've sped things up and gone to more of an "Agile" development plan) will feature such additions.  It's something I'm definitely interested in developing.

7) Sound barriers, retaining walls, and sea walls are Lots, and while we've loosened the once hardline restriction on inclusion of Lots in the NAM, it is indeed unlikely that they will become part of it.  Additionally, being Lots, such items are not controlled by the RUL files, and as such, cannot be FLEX.  I will say, though, that having Fractional Angle versions of these sorts of things (sound barriers, mainly--because of the slope/terrain end, walls would be extraordinarily tricky!) are definitely on my personal wishlist.

8) The current CAN-AM functionality doesn't really treat the various angles all that differently, so you can already sort of fudge doing Fractional Angle stuff with it on that end.  The actual outer pieces that aren't in the NAM's purview, however, are a different matter entirely, and there's also the fact that SimGoober has long since retired from the SC4 world (last logged in at SC4D in 2013, and ST in 2012--those "updates" to his STEX files are really just CB fixing the descriptions), and callagrafx, while still making the occasional cameo over at SC4D, hasn't made content for a long time, either.  I'd say that's unlikely at this point.

9) The Street network has purposely not gotten overpasses, since the general thought is that being intended as less-traveled networks in the overall functional hierarchy, they wouldn't merit the expense in RL, though this has been debated internally in recent years.  The addition of Fractional Angle Streets makes sense (particularly as the Streets do have Wide-Radius Curve functionality), though it's lower on the docket of potential FA expansion.  Conversion of the existing Road, Avenue, and RHW FA capabilities to FLEX pieces (as has been done with the RRW) is the main priority at the moment, since that'll mean ditching puzzle pieces, and also providing an entrance point (for Road) to be able to build FA content without all the current pattern memorization.

10) If you're referring to the Bullet Train Mod (BTM), a reskin of Monorail, that's been removed from the NAM itself, starting with NAM 37.  When we added it in NAM 31, it was already out-of-date (the RHW crossings were designed to RHW 5.0/NAM 30 specs, and rendered completely non-functional with the Project 57-era RHW that NAM 31 introduced), no longer maintained by its creator, and the prospect of getting it fully up-to-date and properly maintaining all the crosslinkage that's been added since is a massive task.  A few of us (myself, droric, and rsc204) have dabbled in it over the years, but there's just too much to add.  We'll probably re-release it as a separate download "Legacy" plugin (read: available, but as-is with no guarantee of technical support or updates), but that's as far as we'll go.  Ditto with the "Alternate El-Rail", which is in the same boat.

If, however, you're talking about HSR and Monorail-based override networks, while the current iteration of HSR is planned to be phased out/rendered "Legacy" at some point in the near future, Real High Speed Rail (RHSR) has been in planning since the NAM 33 development cycle, and is still in development.  The introduction of Hybrid Railway (HRW) in NAM 38 is a step on the path to RHSR's eventual addition, as it's designed to operate as an interlink between RRW and RHSR.

-Tarkus

For point 2, that's what I mean. A toggle within the game to activate the DBE. So, player can just toggle (I wish) much like toggling day/night cycle. The button will be at the bottom of Network section (Roads, Rails, RHW, misc transit) of the menu. In-game integration of such feature is still the ultimate goal but it requires revamping the bridge system which is hard but also side effectly rewarding. Why? Because we might understand how tunnel system works and we can use it to our advantages without resorting to (currently buggy) all new FLUPs system. Of course, FLUPs will still exist but we will integrate it with tunnel or if it's difficult philosophically and technically, we just scrap tunnel altogether and use FLUPs, the way NAM Team is leading.

For point 7 and 8, I mean networkified lots: networks look like lots. This isn't traditional lots. This will be override networks. By using override, of course FLEX is certainly possible. So, you can make seawalls using C:S method of dragging across the shoreline. Same to canals or personally, runway. Imagine runways made by just dragging an override. It saves time by not plopping traditional lots. For things like seawalls, it will be a null-traffic network. It's weird to see a networkified FLEX seawalls with car traffic. Pedestrian access may be considered.

Or we can use much familiar analogy: SAM #1: Parking Lots. This is traditionally (even to this day) a set of ploppable lots. But NAM Team has been made the set of lots to be an override network under/based on SAM. Using this analogy, we can convert seawalls' straight piece, inner corner, outer corner, etc to an override network. Of course, we don't bundle it in NAM installation because it's not relevant. But, this will be a spinoff project of NAM or collaboration with NAM Team utilizing the Flex technology.

For point 10, yes I mean HRW (and eventually RHSR). But I forgot the name at the time of post. This is made somewhat clear by "available in NAM 38". Bullet train is certainly no longer available since 37 and after.

Note: I may mixed up FLEX and override. Of course, they are different but they're related to each other. Sorry for my confusion.