Help with Phantom Slider bug

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

I need some help dealing with the phantom slider bug.

After finishing an overhaul of the power buildings, I dumbly forget to kill my power buildings first. This has left me with a broken power slider, thankfully in the up direction, but super annoying nonetheless.

I've run through the various fixes with no luck, and seem to have two powerplant entries that are stuck, something I feel is the likely source of the problem.

After deleting every power source and pole, I'm left with 3 entries under the power utility entry in the budget. 1 is for power poles, with the other two being bulldozed power plants. I've yet to figure out a way to get rid of them, and haven't run across any information on what should be done, though I found another thread with the same issue (unresolved it seems).

I'd really appreciate any help.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

I've learned a bunch recently when fixing the Airport Shuttle CTD and when creating the Parks Aura mod with @Cyclone Boom which then helped @Naomi57 discover the phantom park effect aura.

So, I believe what happens is when a building is plopped, the data for its costs are written to a sub file within the overall save game data for the city tile. However, when it is bulldozed it looks for that data in the .dat (or .sc4lot or .sc4desc) file that is currently in use and it reverses what it finds. When that info is not the same as the info written during the initial pre-modded plop it will be off by the difference.  If it were my city, I would bulldoze every related building (ideally with the mod which was in effect when they were built), write down the exact amount of the phantom costs which are remaining, save the game, and then mod a single lot to have zeroes for those amounts. Now go in and plop that. Check that the budget costs did not change. Save, exit, and edit the mod to now have the exact costs seen in the budget. Go back in the game and bulldoze the lot that was plopped when it had the zeroes.

My theory is this will then exactly offset the hidden info in that sub file of the game save data. Or it could bork your city even worse. Prolly best to make a backup of it before trying this.

[Naomi57 2,985]

Interesting idea from Cori.  If you try that, I'd be fascinated to hear what happens.

I presume you've tried backup and re-import your city, which might reset something ... just a thought.

Phantom bulldozed power plants is a new one on me!  

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

Oh, I might be out of luck on this one. I don't think I have a backup of the files from when they were plopped. They were plopped already edited, then edited again(facepalm).

Luckily it's stuck sliding up, but I probably have the same issue in my second city with trash. Thankfully that city only has a few hours into it so it could be reset if it's bad. Edit: Woo looks like the 2nd city is safe, probably cause I only changed the plopcost/recycle % for the buildings it has.

Maybe I can recreate the data from edit history in google docs, I'm pretty sure the values I entered initially were from the first alterations at least for power plants. My Rebalance Sheet if anyone is interested.

 

Quote

 If it were my city, I would bulldoze every related building (ideally with the mod which was in effect when they were built)

I've done this, but I'm not sure what you meant by this:

Quote

write down the exact amount of the phantom costs which are remaining,

Here is my Utility budget window with all power buildings destroyed

 

[xxdita 1,097]

The building desc's for all plopped buildings can be found in the save file, and easily viewable with Reader. Obviously, make a backup of the city first, but I'm thinking you may be able to update the budget items that way to fix the situation. 

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

5 minutes ago, xxdita said:

The building desc's for all plopped buildings can be found in the save file, and easily viewable with Reader. Obviously, make a backup of the city first, but I'm thinking you may be able to update the budget items that way to fix the situation. 

Ohh good to know. Didn't know I could use ilive on the save file, I'll have to give that a try.

I've got a backup of the city file at least, though it's post slider bug.

 

[xxdita 1,097]

Most of the savegame data is a jumbled mess, but building desc's look pretty normal. 

I did a quick test and didn't have any problems with the changes. So let us know how it goes. 

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

Whew I am hopelessly lost trying to find the relevant entries in the save file.

[xxdita 1,097]

I'm using Reader version 1.5.4. 

 

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

my examplar analysis:

Also Ilives 1.54

 

This is with the buildings deleted, as I don't have a city backup from before I started trying to fix the problem. Also dumb I know. Version control Amirite

[xxdita 1,097]

I've done the same thing, sometimes on purpose. I'm not sure what else to try. 

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

And.... It's fixed!

Cori's method was basically what did it, I was able to use the edit history of my spread sheet to pull up the right values, and I edited the buildings back to the plopped values. 

Deleting the buildings with the original plop values got rid of the extra entries on the budget list, and after saving, exiting, remodifying the values to the desired levels, reloading and then replopping... it appears the slider is back to normal behavior.

Ran a test for a year with no movement, so WOOO!

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

1 hour ago, Matrim Cauthon said:

... it appears the slider is back to normal behavior.

Ran a test for a year with no movement, so WOOO!

Yay!

(And I'm sure we (you) realized about making backups before tweakilating from here onward.)

[Matrim Cauthon 344]

20 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Yay!

(And I'm sure we (you) realized about making backups before tweakilating from here onward.)

Yeah, haha. This is prompting me to do my civics rebalance before moving on to the bigger cities. 

[Dono 215]

Just had the exact line of events as Matrim Cauthons initial post, virtually to a T, I've tried all the easier fixes but my slider keeps falling and the deleted power plant still shows in the in game utilities budget window....(I wish my slider went up like his lol).

I'm trying the above suggestions with iLive but am at a miss to where to look for the required information in my citys .sc4 file. Any suggestions would be awesome.

[rsc204 21,866]

You can't really edit the save file to fix this, what you must do is restore the original values. So for example, if you downloaded a building, placed it in game, then subsequently saved cities with that content, before modding the download. You simply need to temporarily remove your modded copy, restore the original one, return to the game and bulldoze the buildings in question. With them all gone, you can now safely restore your modifications and place the buildings with the modded stats.

If you have no path back to restoring the original values, then you may be forced to delete affected cities and start over. Backups of your save files or from before your tinkering will prevent this if you have them. If not, now's a good time to change your processes so you don't end up here again in future.

[Dono 215]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

You can't really edit the save file to fix this, what you must do is restore the original values. So for example, if you downloaded a building, placed it in game, then subsequently saved cities with that content, before modding the download. You simply need to temporarily remove your modded copy, restore the original one, return to the game and bulldoze the buildings in question. With them all gone, you can now safely restore your modifications and place the buildings with the modded stats.

If you have no path back to restoring the original values, then you may be forced to delete affected cities and start over. Backups of your save files or from before your tinkering will prevent this if you have them. If not, now's a good time to change your processes so you don't end up here again in future.

Thanks for your reply, I have literally tried everything twice from every known slider bug post on the web lol. The above post was the only one that had an identical situation as mine so I hoped to mimic their actions but I couldn't understand what they actually did with iLive. I started using Steam which shows play time and since corona have racked up 712 hours on my new best city ever ...BOOM!!...  I just nuked it lol (saved a copy just in case something might work one day). At least I'll get back in the habit of backing up if I can bring myself to play again  Thanks again for your input, very much appreciated.

[rsc204 21,866]

Well nuking the city is kinda a last resort, but a guaranteed fix.

If you yourself have not been modding things, then the key is to find and remove whatever mod has altered things. The problem is specific to the lots you are having trouble with, so if it's Power Plant, you need to look at what mods for that Lot you have that may have changed things. The caveat is you need the precise settings in-place from when it was built, to also be there when you bulldoze it. Anything else will retain screwy settings in the save file.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

13 hours ago, Dono said:

I'm trying the above suggestions with iLive but am at a miss to where to look for the required information in my citys .sc4 file.

The edits using Reader are not to the city save file itself.

What was done was to edit the values of the plopped lot in reverse order of the way they were modified. Then plopping, saving, exiting the game, re-modifying, loading, bulldozing, saving, exiting, modifying, loading, plopping, saving, and thru this process until each wrong thing was countered exactly.

 

8 hours ago, Dono said:

(saved a copy just in case something might work one day)

This is a very good idea as all may not be lost.

Key things to make a note of while they may still be fresh in your mind is what sequence of events did you do. I presume the logical thing (when not aware of the bug) is you added the new plant to plugins, loaded your game, bulldozed the other previous plants, and then plopped a new one or three of the revised lot.

So what happens here is that the funding total and the percentage of the total is stored separately in the city save data. The trouble is when bulldozing them the game looks to the current version in plugins to reverse the numbers that make up those totals. As long as they are the same as when plopped (no modified lot in plugins) then all is well. However, if plopped with one set of data in the lot's exemplar and then bulldozed while a different set of data is read from that exemplar (of the modified lot) then it's deducting the wrong numbers.

I believe it would actually be possible to have a formula that would let us know exactly what to make as a temporary lot to plop, save, mod the lot, load again, and bulldoze such that the deliberate new discrepancy would then offset the goofy data.

CB and I have too many other irons in the fire now, but do hang on to that saved city tile in case we have a chance in the future to test my idea.

[Dono 215]

Thanks to both of you for your time, I've added this message just so you know I didn't drift off into the night without a thanks for you insight and advice, no response is required, I understand you're flat out. 

I have tried what you have said from the backup of the first day of the bug...kept everything the same but reversed the sequence of events of how I got to where it occurred. 

My situation started when I placed 9 long span power lines across my city then realised the creator miss allocated the costs.....instead of $500 plop and $2 month budget it was the other way around!!. Unfortunately I didn't bulldoze the lots, I exited and with the sc4Tool modded the costs to how they should have been. When I restarted my changes came in affect and the power plants cost were correct but then the bug kicked in, I then read to delete all power plants...run for a few months/save and restart, also tried numerous other googled suggestions. The bug stayed and I noticed in the in game utilities budget window that under power there was a "0" where there would have been the name of the power plants  showing with a $0 cost as well. (Summary of of Events: Installed plugin => Ran Game and Plopped Poles => Noticed Cost error...Saved and Exit(Stupid, should have exit without save or at least bulldozed)=> Edited Lot costs with SC4Tool=> Ran Game...costs fixed but got Bug)

 This is with no power plants but shows a "0" number of an unnamed plant. 

Obviously this phantom power plant (the plopped power line) is the issue but even with the lot I changed or the original one, when plopped the number goes up and when bulldozed goes down but it doesn't disappear. (Only the related power plant plop causes the number to change).

Finding how to get rid of this entry is the issue, I was hoping it was a change in the .sav file  .... And someone needs to update the Nuke City thing, I wanted to hear my sims screaming and watch my farms burn...quite disappointing LOL.

 

[rsc204 21,866]

11 hours ago, Dono said:

I then read to delete all power plants...run for a few months/save and restart

Whoever wrote that has essentially screwed you here, they obviously don't understand the problem properly. By doing that, the phantom data remains in the save file, but now you can't restore the right data, BEFORE you bulldoze them. This is fundamental to clearing the problem values/data.

If you have a backup, from before you deleted these items, there is still hope. Of course if you are that prepared, likely you can just go back to before this whole thing happened in the first place.

17 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I believe it would actually be possible to have a formula that would let us know exactly what to make as a temporary lot to plop, save, mod the lot, load again, and bulldoze such that the deliberate new discrepancy would then offset the goofy data.

I think in this specific case, because the Lots were deleted and the game subsequently saved, there is no way to restore the faulty data even if you could work out what it was. I could be wrong, but from my understanding it looks like sans a backup, starting over might be your only option. If this is a particularly cherished city, you could try asking @smf_16 very nicely if he could fix the save file. I think there are two people who have the knowledge to edit raw save data without breaking things.

[Dono 215]

10 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Whoever wrote that has essentially screwed you here, they obviously don't understand the problem properly. By doing that, the phantom data remains in the save file, but now you can't restore the right data, BEFORE you bulldoze them. This is fundamental to clearing the problem values/data.

If you have a backup, from before you deleted these items, there is still hope. Of course if you are that prepared, likely you can just go back to before this whole thing happened in the first place.

I think in this specific case, because the Lots were deleted and the game subsequently saved, there is no way to restore the faulty data even if you could work out what it was. I could be wrong, but from my understanding it looks like sans a backup, starting over might be your only option. If this is a particularly cherished city, you could try asking @smf_16 very nicely if he could fix the save file. I think there are two people who have the knowledge to edit raw save data without breaking things.

I think I was screwed from the start with multiple things that all happened at the same time, me not having a backup is No1 and the most important. I wouldn't blame the solution I found as I had never heard of the Slider Bug before so wasn't aware that it can be caused by a number of factors...mine in the end wasn't the one they were helping others with, I just assumed what caused theirs was my issue too. Just earlier when I spat the dummy with my 100th attempt to reset I looked deeper, I bulldozed a massive line along the poles instead of individually and found about 6 PedMall tiles under a stretch of road 17 tiles apart...exactly the distance the poles are spaced..it looks like earlier ones I deleted were somehow still there in spirt lol. And the mod I downloaded had duplicated files of the same lots in the folder that I didn't notice as it was in Dutch, so I'm assuming me modding values in one caused SC4 to blow its sphincter having 2 exact lots with different values.

Thanks again for your time, love your work  

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:52 PM, Dono said:

I placed 9 long span power lines across my city...

I'm ready to try to screw up a city in the exact same way it happened for you. Do you have a linky to the  long span power lines plugin?

My testing today: I've been working with the Maxis small police station where I plopped a few, saved, modded the cost to be less, reloaded, watched the sliders go phantoming lower, bulldozed them (known wrong thing to do at this point), and saved.

Now, the cool part: With my city borked, I've derived a formula based on the amount of the monthly slide which then lets me calculate the exact total discrepancy stored in that hidden data (which we cannot access directly). After that it's a few simple steps where I can exactly offset the discrepancy and make the bug go away. The best part is it doesn't matter how screwed up it is or in what increments it got that way.

I presume my method would work for your situation and I'm ready to give it a try. After I've created the same level of borkedness and fixed it, I can then write a mini tutorial you could follow if you'd like to salvage that city tile.

Disclaimer: Atm, I only know how to fix the phantom slider bug when it's auto decreasing. The other direction should be similar, but it's not as straightforward (or I'm too tired right now).

[Dono 215]

Hey, sorry for my delay I don't get notifications for posts....if they exist lol.

The Line Pack was from: https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/18573-power-line-pack/ I as well downloaded the previous pack from that link as the new pack had a power pole end missing for the one I was using. The pole used was the "380kv (Normal)" not the "380Kv 105m".

Anyway thank you sooooo much for thinking of my past issue but I've completely abandoned that city in a system clean out as for some unknown reason I'm getting super lag in my new city after nuking the slider bug one, and this city is only 1/8th the size of the old one 😒... thought my PC could have been a possible issue so deleted heaps in an over zealous house cleaning lol. 

Thank you again, it would have been cool to test your theory. 

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

2 hours ago, Dono said:

Thank you again, it would have been cool to test your theory.

You're welcome. Just let me know should it happen again.

Or, if you'd want to create a disposable sandbox city tile in which you deliberately do the same steps to create the bug and then we can go thru my method to fix it.

[Dono 215]

3 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Or, if you'd want to create a disposable sandbox city tile in which you deliberately do the same steps to create the bug and then we can go thru my method to fix it.

Now I'm aware of that particular bug I will avoid everything I learnt having the problem to never see it happen again!!....I hope lol.

But if you really need someone to see if your theory works externally from your own fix I may happen to have a copy of the city I had the issue with... Not long after I restarted my new city my hard drive failed so I installed a SSD and transferred all my SC stuff over to it. As mentioned I just cleared all that out but it should still be on the old drive, I just need to find a cable to attach the old drive to my PC. 

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

3 hours ago, Dono said:

But if you really need someone to see if your theory works externally from your own fix I may happen to have a copy of the city I had the issue with...

If you happen to be transferring files from that drive and would like to jump thru a few hoops, I'd be happy to work with you on it. But, there's no need to go to any extra effort to obtain that borked city file unless you, yourself, have an interest in seeing how Cori's Phantom Sliders Deborkification works.

[mitsos 12,966]

Hi everyone. I 'm facing the same issue with bus funding. Unfortunately it's too late for applying Corina's suggestion. The mayor 's rate is -80%. Deleting the city is not an option.Also i don't use mods. Any suggestions guys?

[mitsos 12,966]

Finally fixed it. Well, wasn't that complicated. I demolished all educational buildings in the city, then ran the city for up to a month, stop the time and rebuilt et voilà.... Problem solved.