GLR menu icons missing but plops create boxes

[mak9 6]

SC4 from Steam, patched, running on Windows 10/Ryzen 5 2600 -

Several modds ie NAM, Heretic's Stations, NOB installed - tried to make sure all the dependencies went in as well - Menu icons for the GLR stationsdon't appear, though mouse-over popups indicate the name of the station. There are several "grass" ploppables whose icons don't appear as well. When any of the stations are plopped, a box appears.

Admittedly, my plugin management is sophmoric but I'm not sure if it's simply a missing dependency or something more serious.

Let me know if more specific info or screenshots would help. And thanks in advance!

[twalsh102 1,601]

You have at least two separate issues going on here. 

First, the missing icons in the menu:  This is almost always caused by a missing or corrupted icon subfile (PNG) in the .SC4Lot file (or it may be a .dat file).  To determine if the necessary icon subfile is either missing or corrupted, you will need to open the SC4Lot file in Reader.  You should usually see two PNG files.  One shows an icon that may or may not represent the building.  The second looks like a series of four representations of the building.  This is the one that is necessary for the menu icon to show up.  If it is corrupt, it will show as blank when you click on the subfile.  If this is the case, hopefully just unzipping the file again will resolve the issue.  If it doesn't, that means the file was corrupted when the content creator created the zip file (which creates a whole separate problem).  You would need to track down which specific downloads are missing menu icons to check this.

NAM is essentially self contained.  So there shouldn't be anything missing as far as the contents included with NAM.

Brown boxes always relate to missing models.  There are two possible causes for this.  Either you missed a dependency (or a necessary dependency wasn't listed), or the necessary dependency is buried too deeply in cascading subfolders in your Plugins folder (creating a file path length that Windows can't read).

For resolving problems such as these, the best thing to do is let us know exactly what downloads (links work best) you are having problems with.  This way we can download the lots in question to see if we have the same results.  In the case of missing dependencies, we may be able to quickly find what's missing through dependencies we already have.  Otherwise, all we can do is give you very generic answers, or guess.

As far as Plugin management, there is usually no one totally right method, or totally wrong method (other than not having any method) to organize your Plugins.  The best advice I can give is to devise a folder structure that best allow you to find things you want to find (everyone's mind works differently, so the best method is the one that makes sense to you).

[mak9 6]

twalsh - Thank you so much. Do you know of a plugn'play Cortex Enhancement mod that isn't real buggy? - vodka stopped working...

5 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

the necessary dependency is buried too deeply in cascading subfolders in your Plugins folder (creating a file path length that Windows can't read).

I haven't made any changes to installation/copy/paste structure of the Plugins folder but there are some deep ones. Do I break up the folders to shorten the path?

6 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

what downloads (links work best) you are having problems with.  This way we can download the lots in question to see if we have the same results

I need a menu sorting mod. Some of the menu items are in the wrong place (IRM icons are in Rewards (I think), Grass icons are in the Transit menu etc. The ones I'm having problems with are the NOB mods in Transit and some of the Road icons in the same menu. I have to look to ID them by name. I now have the Reader installed and figuring out how to access the offending Plugins so I'll keep at it. This was a GREAT response from you and thanks again.

I'm on my 3rd sorting iteration of the tools/mods/dependencies I've downloaded (kept separate from SC4's "Documents" and x86 folders((Windows 10)) - with readme's readily accessible. I'm starting this 3rd sort with Tools (ie iLive's reader, SC4datpacker+dlls, BAT/LE, SC4fix, extracheats and Menu mods etc) then on to NAM, CAM, SAM-type Transit + peripheral addons like lights and markings, then to Air/Sea Ports, Buildings, Flora, Cars, People and Terrain/Water. Any sorting pointers or essential tools would really be appreciated. I'd like to learn how this is all organized by those doing development of the major mods and lesser addons.

I have the BAT, LE and PIM downloaded and installed but the LOD is stretching my memory limits so top-down organization of the "Files" seems like the best way I can wrap my head around how best to set this all up. Then I can begin to work out a better understanding of how these programs both function and interact with the game and each other.

The boxes don't bother me as I'm still learning how to build a clean tools/mods/content setup. Kek, I still don't even know how to really make all the NAM items work well for intersections, overpasses, sunken rail and so on... I could be here for years.

And did I say thanks? I may even give the vodka one more try.

[twalsh102 1,601]

I'm partial to Captain Morgan 100 Proof Spiced Rum myself! 

If you haven't already got it, one place I'd recommend to give you a good foundation on game mechanics is Prima's Official Strategy Guide for SimCity 4 Deluxe (available as a free download here):  https://archive.org/details/SimCity_4_Rush_Hour_Prima_Official_eGuide
Once the page opens, scroll down to Download Options and choose PDF.  While some of the numbers in the included charts are not 100% correct, it should be noted that this guide was created with the help of some of the Maxis Programmers that created this game.

Your comments touch on so many aspects that any new player needs to understand to just manage all the files, I started writing a book.  I think I'll stop that and feed things to you a bit at a time.  Otherwise I tend to ramble.  I think I'll start with some common terminology (this is by no means an exhaustive list):

While technically, anything that you add to the game can be called a mod, the most common usage within the community for that word are for things that modify how the game works.  So NAM and CAM are definitely considered mods; likewise, things like SC4fix, extra cheats, or anything else that has "mod" in its name.

Technically, anything that you add to a game can also be called an add-on.  But since it's not very descriptive, it's hardly ever used.

You may see the terms Building and Lot used interchangeably, but generally what you are downloading is a lot.  The things that are needed for a lot to work correctly are a Lot Exemplar (.SC4Lot file), a Building Exemplar (either a separate .SC4Desc file, or may be included inside the .SC4Lot file), and a Model (either an included .SC4Model file, or may be a listed dependency).  Some downloads have everything here included inside a .dat file.

An Exemplar is basically a description file consisting of various properties common to a particular thing.  A Lot Exemplar contains properties specific to a lot, including where on the lot the Building, specific textures, and specific props are located.  A Lot Exemplar can reference only one Building Exemplar.  A Building Exemplar includes properties that are specific to buildings themselves, to include a reference to the necessary model.  If the referenced model cannot be found, a Brown Box occurs.  A Prop Exemplar includes properties common to props.  An .SC4Desc file may be either a Building Exemplar or a Prop Exemplar.  There a many, many other types of exemplars.

A Dependency can be just about anything:  props, textures, models, mods.  Basically, anything not created by the person creating the lot, cannot be included with the download, and must be listed as a dependency.  If a lot creator uses props and/or textures that he previously created for re-use and amalgamated them into Prop or Texture Packs, they will also be listed as Dependencies.

Tools would be any programs that are used in conjunction with, but are external to the game (iReader, Maxis LE, Maxis PIM, BAT, PIM-X, Datpacker, SC4DataNode, etc).  The other things you listed are not tools, but mods.

The next thing I'll probably touch on will be Plugins folder organization, but that'll be at least tomorrow or the next day.  I'll give you some examples on how I do it.  Note that my way is not the only way, or even the best way, just that it works for me.  Plugins folder organization is all about making things easier to find.  Except in a couple of specific cases, it has no impact on how the game runs.

 

[mak9 6]

12 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

Rum

WooHoo!

It's been said God doesn't make junk - your post is proof. Thank you for this. And for the link.

I wrote a book once. 280 pages in two weeks. Political thriller - 1st draft... still sitting somewhere around here. Kinda died on the rewrite table so try not to leave it down for too long m'kay? You are an excellent writer.

Your post is a tremendous pointer to the underlying basic software read structure of the (all) game(s)...? Don't think I need to dive into how the game uses RAM/memory (just yet) but knowing what the engine is interacting with (and in what order) helps me to understand how the engine wants the data (Exemplars?) organized (and to extrapolate) how each Exemplar file is internally structured so as to not trigger blank or fatal reactions by the engine (sorry about all that - still haven't learned to code).

I read a post yesterday lauding the "ahead of their time" work the Maxis crew did on the game engine itself. Made it far more robust than current hardware could support. Made me want to understand just what it was they built. The after-market development that I've been downloading seems to be taking full advantage of just that. Brilliant.

13 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

Technically, anything that you add to a game can also be called an add-on.

Words matter. I've started to realize this about some of the terminology - but having you explain the difference between and within Exemplars (in handwriting analysis, Exemplars are just that - an example/manifestation of the internal workings of the Soul who produced the Exemplar) manhandled the terms into something far less than the utter chaos they were in 5 minutes before I read your post - thanks!

Steep learning curve - but then the Game and now the Tools/Mods are so much more than the vanilla 2003 release.

Your response should be stickied. and thanks again!