No jobs

[Silvally XLR 4]

so I have a city of about 22K but i keep getting these abandoned due to long commute messages, ive tried upgrading streets to roads and instaling NAM both of which have hellped a bit but some of my apartments keep getting abandoned. ive tried building comercial zones right across the street from the condos but the people go right past it. I'll try to get a screenshot later but its getting a bit frustrating.

[Silvally XLR 4]

[Silvally XLR 4]

oddly ive noticed they prefer to travel halfway across the map rather than to the zone i put down for them across the street... does medeum density residential need medium commercial? or will they also use high density?

[rsc204 21,865]

The first thing you need to know is that sims will look for jobs based on their wealth and education level. Density is not factored into any of this. So if you have a Low Wealth uneducated sim, they will only be able to work in I-D / I-AG / CS$ for the most part. Some offices require more educated sims, for the sake of simplicity, there are three main "stages" throughout the game:

• Starting Out
  Mostly R$, working in I-D/I-AG/CS$
• Starting to get good EQ (Education)
  Some R$$, few R$$$, mostly R$ with demand for I-M/CS$$
• Well educated population (EQ 100+)
  Still 50% R$, with maybe a 10-20/30-40 split for R$$/R$$$ and demand for I-HT/CS$$$/CO$$/CO$$$

That's not quite an exact representation of things, but it's good enough as a rough guide. Then of course you have to factor the three wealths of sims, R$/R$$/R$$$ into the equation. But most Ind/Com buildings offer jobs to a mix of those. So you'll need a few R$$$ sims to run the business, some R$$ to manage employees and then mostly R$ to do the actual work. With higher-wealth buildings moving towards a higher mix of R$$ and R$$$ to R$ sims. Now a lot of this is not completely obvious to the player, it's just how things work in the background.

The RCI Demand bars/graph is how this information is conveyed to you, the player. The game is designed to create demand for certain building types, based on what your population can support. So for the most part, zoning according to the demands you have, will make the right type of buildings grow to suit your cities needs. But this system can fall down, say a bunch of I-HT buildings grow, but something changes and you not longer have enough R$$$ sims to work there. Well if the business abandons, all the other sims that work there will suddenly need a job too. This is what I'm guessing you are seeing, something has changed, so sims who previously had jobs (hence demand for them to move in existed), no longer do. That's causing them to abandon or become occupied by a lower wealth type. Fixing this requires you identify the problem, check the graphs and see if there has been a dip in education, land values and things like that. A lot of this information can give you clues as to the best way to fix things.

It goes deeper though, because sims need to be able to get to work in a reasonable time. I see you've stuck with a few roads and streets, but that won't cut it forever. Some sort of Mass Transit will improve the chances of sims finding work. OK, at 22k pop, that's not yet a huge deal, but it's a problem you'll need to address down the line. Similarly, use of higher-capacity transport like Avenues, OWRs and Highways to connect residential areas with jobs will speed up commutes.

[Silvally XLR 4]

so youre saying i should try putting in a subway or buses or something? I also have NAM installed but not quite sure how to use it.

does it include anything like This LRT sytstem? (so cars can drive alongside the LRT)

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Mass Transit will improve the chances of sims finding work

Much more than that: A certain percentage of low and medium wealth sims do not even have cars! That's right -- Without mass transit, they (maybe half of all low-wealth workers) can only find work within walking distance.

I use the RoadTop Mass Transit (RTMT) mod to plop bus stops right on top of my streets and roads. Street stops are cheap to build and operate, so I sprinkle them liberally in all zoned areas (one about every 20 cells' walk). YMMV

[Silvally XLR 4]

so this road top is essentialy the same as this lrt i posted? basicly a rail built into the road?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Freedom

[Silvally XLR 4]

tried rtmt but it made my houses disappear. is there anything built into NAM that would do the same thing?

[Fantozzi 4,068]

23 hours ago, Silvally XLR said:

oddly ive noticed they prefer to travel halfway across the map rather than to the zone i put down for them across the street... does medeum density residential need medium commercial? or will they also use high density?

@rsc204 explained the mechanics - nothing much to add, but one can think of the consequences.

There are several option you can set in the NAM traffic simulator tool about sims commuting behaviour.

It's totally normal that some sims may travel a large distance for their job of dreams others may be more lazy. Also abbandonement of residentials happens more often in game than in RL because sc4 can't simulate impoverish of people, becoming unemployed and addicted to alcohol etc., all the social problems poverty creates  - instead sims move away, they simply disappear, while in RL they can't go anywhere and so parts of the city becoming slums (instead of getting empty). So abbandonement of residentials in game is more equivalent to dilapidation in RL. Even the best major will face abbandonement here and there - as while the city grows living standards is a subject to change.

Abbandonement of buildings offering work is different and mostly may need some action on infrastructure. So if the buildings offering work do well and only residentials get dilapidated from time to time here and there - that hasn't to be a sign of crisis rather if you notice dilapilation in all sectors.

In my hometown (I think the same happens in many cities) the central city becomes more and more luxury appartments only the richest can afford while students and average hospital staff and workers don't find room they are able to pay. So they move outside the city and have a long commuting time. So there is a rush hour in the morning and the network is close to collapse and the tram is overcrowded for one or two hours but almost empty the rest of the day. So local public transport gets inefficient, doesn't make money but causes high costs. So ticket prices increases, so people take the car again. And at a certain point they will try to find a work closer to their homes outside the city center. So the city center gets void of certain services. The hospitals, the supermarkets, all simple crafting, like shoe repairs you'll find outside the city center while inside you'll have advocats and bankers. But the bankers need some nurses, some shoe repairsd around, so they won't be lucky neither if they all move away. IMO this doubled relationship between low wealth and high wealth - to swamp out each other but need each other as a part of the production chain - is covered by sc4 and growth always causes some imbalance between those different (work)forces and it takes some time and action until they are rebalanced again.

To me these temporary imbalances while city grows are simulated pretty well in sc4 - the rich sims displace the sims with lower income but still they are needed for economy to work. So one could say abbandonement of residentials is part of a 'normal' process of change, reorganisation of living space, where single people may loose job and house.

For the major as he doesn't care much for social aspects - name him Major Fantozzi, the despot - abbandonement of residential buildings doesn't matter as long as the city population overall grows or transforms into richer sims paying more taxes. He just bulldozes the buildings and builds a nice luxury clothes shop instead. That's how life goes in a world that simulates economy without social interests. People are needed only as long as they produce something - education is only needed if it generates money.

So for some sims you simply can't offer the jobs they really want. Doesn't matter - as long as on the global level everything grows, if those unneeded dreamers all commit suicide (moving into the boundless simulation nirvana) and their houses gets empty. Just bulldoze the empty houses and plant something nice there.

To cut the long story short - only important factor is overall growth, not the fate of single houses and their residents.

 

 

 

The average employee in Los Angeles spends 102 hours each year in traffic jams (hopefully they have nice radio programs there). All the bigger cities all over the world are working only by consuming lifetime of the employees, it doesn't cause any costs if they do the line everywhere, to get in, to get out, to move inside. It simply costs time, transforms spare time into wasted time, but doesn't do harm to economy. The more the cities grow, the more they take away lifetime from people. They consume the life of the people.

Sims know nothing about RL. They live in a simulation paradise and always complain. They move away as if they all would have better times becoming hog farmers in the country side. Well, if they think so. You shouldn't bother with them as long as your city overall grows . just think they leave some empty space you can build even better than before.

 

 

 

[rsc204 21,865]

8 hours ago, Silvally XLR said:

so this road top is essentialy the same as this lrt i posted? basicly a rail built into the road?

Not so much. Within the NAM are a few such networks, Tram in Avenue, Tram in Road, Tram on Road, El-Rail over Road and El-Rail over Ave/RD4. These networks have GLR (Ground Light Rail / Trams) or Elevated Rail without taking up any additional space.

7 hours ago, Silvally XLR said:

tried rtmt but it made my houses disappear. is there anything built into NAM that would do the same thing?

All transit stations in the game are not also functional networks, this can't be changed. So wherever you place the stations, you must ensure the zoning that touches the station lot will also cover a tile where there is no station. You can't really avoid this, but so long as you use wider zoning, it shouldn't be a huge issue.

I think you need to accept that transport networks will remove some space you could otherwise use for zoning. You can do that highly efficiently if you plan things right, but they are necessary, especially when you start building upwards (higher densities).

[Silvally XLR 4]

new "ION" (ok its actualy tram in road but inspired by the real world ION pictured above) transit system is operational now seems to have helped a very congested street.

 

[rsc204 21,865]

You need to have stations for the Tram in Road, otherwise sims won't use the GLR part. Sims can only travel between stations using Mass Transit.

[Silvally XLR 4]

i put two stations down but the buildings are so tall they are rather hard to see but when i click the stations it says they are using it. the only part that is at 0 is subway transitions but thats probably because i don't have any subways yet.

[Silvally XLR 4]

SFBT Tram Stop on Road it says when i click it.

[rsc204 21,865]

If you switch to Zones view, it's easier to see things like stations. Similarly, if you switch to Traffic View, you can select by network what traffic you see. When you do this, stations should appear in bright green, making them easier to spot.

Otherwise, the use of the route query tool will always tell you how many sims are using each transport type for a given tile. Similarly, with sufficient traffic you'll see automata (trams) appear, which is a visual clue. Lastly, due to a quick or how such dual network items work, the paths in the station need to be "activated". Drag the OWR tool through every tile of the station, but not outside of it, to activate the paths. Otherwise save, then exit and re-enter the city. Either will ensure the stations are correctly pathed and thus work.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

16 hours ago, Silvally XLR said:

tried rtmt but it made my houses disappear.

That's utterly bizarre. Placing a road-top bus stop on top of a road should not vanish any nearby house (or any other building/lot). It sounds from your description that you have some serious corruption happening in your city or game. You should attend to that (have you installed the SC4Fix DLL?) before bothering with any further development of what may be a completely corrupted file.

[rsc204 21,865]

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Placing a road-top bus stop on top of a road should not vanish any nearby house (or any other building/lot).

As mentioned, it would if no other tile of the lot touched an actual transit network, which I believe is really the most likely problem here.

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

It sounds from your description that you have some serious corruption happening in your city or game. You should attend to that (have you installed the SC4Fix DLL?) before bothering with any further development of what may be a completely corrupted file.

Yeah, if you ignore the far more likely scenario of the zoning being blocked from access to a network. Not to mention, SC4Fix is not an out and out cure for save file corruption. Frankly, sans preventing the CTD when hovering PPs over TE lots and prevention of Prop Pox, two very specific problems, it wouldn't do you a lot of good if the save file was corrupted in any normal fashion.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

if you ignore the far more likely scenario of the zoning being blocked

He didn't say that he got a no-road zot. He said that his houses disappeared. Placing a stop or station deleted some lots! That's serious corruption, which means he has other problems at a system level.

[Silvally XLR 4]

i don't think its a corrupt save file. as soon as i removed the rtmt mod everything was back to normal. 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

15 hours ago, Silvally XLR said:

i don't think its a corrupt save file. as soon as i removed the rtmt mod everything was back to normal.

I guess I interpreted your "disappeared" too literally. If your zones merely got no-road zots, then try RTMT again with this technique: Only place the stops at 4-way intersections and on the stems of T-intersections. By placing stops at corners, the lots they touch will still have a road on one side.

[CorinaMarie 29,875]

Since I haven't personally used the RTMT I wasn't sure what to suggest might be happening. If it is a No Road Access zot then it could be the game just needs to run a few months to update things after the plopping.