BAT - Getting Started Guide / FAQ / Resources / Help

[Oidaas 1,696]

12 hours ago, Jasoncw said:

@Oidaas My guess is that the BAT was partially but not fully installed, and so when it looks for certain scripts it doesn't find them and crashes or something.

I notice the "Program Files (x86)". Gmax by default installs directly under C: and iirc the BAT is going to try to install itself there too. If you go to C: you might find another gmax folder that has the BAT gamepack stuff in it. If that's the case then copy and paste the gamepacks folder from C: into your "Gmax" folder in Program Files, so that those files are in the right place.

i Tried to copy BAT from D: but when i was to choose driver, none made GMAX stable. It's weird because it worked with heidi before.

[TomK 1]

I've recently gotten back in to playing SimCity4 and would like to learn to edit existing lots and make my own. I've run into a small problem, "Install Gmax ...  Gmax is available at https://www.turbosquid.com/gmax. "  No it's not. That link returns this:  https://support.turbosquid.com/hc/en-us/articles/230095687

Your intro procedure breaks on step 3, so now what?

 

[brancra 1,201]

2 hours ago, TomK said:

I've recently gotten back in to playing SimCity4 and would like to learn to edit existing lots and make my own. I've run into a small problem, "Install Gmax ...  Gmax is available at https://www.turbosquid.com/gmax. "  No it's not. That link returns this:  https://support.turbosquid.com/hc/en-us/articles/230095687

Your intro procedure breaks on step 3, so now what?

 

Just a suggestion, but if you're looking to just edit and make lots and not completely new BAT building models, PIM-X is the most popular program to use these days. It can be downloaded here ( https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2260 , login required) and comes with an easy-to-follow PDF instruction manual.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

3 hours ago, TomK said:

I've recently gotten back in to playing SimCity4 and would like to learn to edit existing lots and make my own. I've run into a small problem, "Install Gmax ...  Gmax is available at https://www.turbosquid.com/gmax. "  No it's not. That link returns this:  https://support.turbosquid.com/hc/en-us/articles/230095687

Your intro procedure breaks on step 3, so now what?

 

What you need can be found above.

The link in the first post will download gmax, and later in the thread is gmax_reg_regfiles.zip. After installing gmax, double click on gmax_1.reg, and click yes, and after that do the same with gmax_2.reg. This is a registration crack. But like I said in these other thread, these files were stickied to the top of the gmax support forum, and they were made not long after the program was made, because people had so many issues with the registration process not working, so this should be considered an acceptable way of registering the program.

I had meant to update the guide after figuring out a way of hosting gmax and the crack in a convenient way, but then I forgot about it.

[Oidaas 1,696]

On 2022-08-07 at 10:42 AM, Oidaas said:

i Tried to copy BAT from D: but when i was to choose driver, none made GMAX stable. It's weird because it worked with heidi before.

I've encountered this issue again. I've reilstalled GMAX which is stable. However Sc4Bat isn't. I've followed all steps, tried Heidi, Open gl and direct 3d. what can i have done wrong?

[rsc204 21,866]

What exactly do you mean by copy BAT from D? You need to Install both gMax and SC4BAT, if you don’t use the proper installers, there are good reasons why things may not be working.

You say gMax is stable but SC4BAT isn’t, sorry but that’s not technically possible. SC4BAT is simply a set of scripts for gMax, I.e. you are still running gMax the entire time. So if one works, so must the other. Unless you’ve an older computer (circa 2005 or older), you can pretty much forget about using Direct 3D, it’s very unlikely your hardware supports the legacy version gMax uses. OpenGL is typically hit and miss, I could never get it to work reliably. HEIDI is basically software based and should work regardless of hardware. Did you check the setting when running SC4BAT is the same as when launching gMax without the additional scripts? If not the best advice I can give is to start by doing a clean install of gMax and SC4BAT. After that if it’s unstable, we need some more information to diagnose the problem. Starting with details of what you are doing and which operation causes problems and how that presents itself. You may need to use some Windows compatibility modes, remember this is 20 year old software and that may not play nice with a modern system. 

[Oidaas 1,696]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

What exactly do you mean by copy BAT from D? You need to Install both gMax and SC4BAT, if you don’t use the proper installers, there are good reasons why things may not be working.

You say gMax is stable but SC4BAT isn’t, sorry but that’s not technically possible. SC4BAT is simply a set of scripts for gMax, I.e. you are still running gMax the entire time. So if one works, so must the other. Unless you’ve an older computer (circa 2005 or older), you can pretty much forget about using Direct 3D, it’s very unlikely your hardware supports the legacy version gMax uses. OpenGL is typically hit and miss, I could never get it to work reliably. HEIDI is basically software based and should work regardless of hardware. Did you check the setting when running SC4BAT is the same as when launching gMax without the additional scripts? If not the best advice I can give is to start by doing a clean install of gMax and SC4BAT. After that if it’s unstable, we need some more information to diagnose the problem. Starting with details of what you are doing and which operation causes problems and how that presents itself. You may need to use some Windows compatibility modes, remember this is 20 year old software and that may not play nice with a modern system. 

My fault, now it works. I've made a clean installation and search compability and now it works like charm.

[Rott 2,399]

How do we get a free light source to show up as a prop? Im trying to create the impression of the light of a diner to emit outside of the restaurant on the ground as it would but any prop light I create will not show up unless there is a surface. Ive seen a few props able to do this, like here:

[rsc204 21,866]

Because BATs are pre-rendered models, any light as part of the modelling process will only be able to shine on the same model itself.

I believe in the image shown, a Light Cone prop has been added to the lot. This projects a light source that is rendered in real time and will interact with any object within its range.

If you have the BSC Misc vol 01 and 02 packs, in one of those are some ready to use Light Cones you can add to your lotting. To begin with I’d start there. 

[Rott 2,399]

Yes I found some using the prop/texture catalogue, this is what I was trying to create, basically just the spot target with a particular hue/elevation: 

Rendering the light as a prop is the issue, they only seem to show up when they are created with the building or on another prop, a free form spot like these ones are what Im trying to make. Anyone know if this is possible with gmax?

[Jasoncw 11,949]

@Rott The light cone props are 3d models, like automata, and not pre-rendered things that you make like a normal BAT. If you look around there's probably a tutorial for making them.

Personally, I would just BAT the immediate ground around the diner that you want lit up. It would also give you the opportunity to BAT a curb, and including details like a trash can and things like that would look better integrated with the main BAT than as a prop.

The main problem with doing this is that it means that shadows from other things in the game would not be cast onto the BATed ground, but this looks like a low density building where there would likely not be a lot of tall things casting shadows onto it. And also, it's a small area and it's not very likely to be visually distracting even if it happens.

[Rott 2,399]

Yeah the foundation/curb thing was something I was working on in case the light cone prop wasn't an option. If anyone is aware of any advanced guide to lighting please let me know there's still a lot of ideas I have/want to experiment with thanks.

[Rott 2,399]

Is anyone familiar with this SimCity 4 Tools program or more specifically why I get this error when trying to save a Texture:
 

 

If not, is there an easy way to convert a bmp/jpg/etc file into an overlay/base texture?

[ohdude 2,353]

On 31/10/2022 at 6:18 AM, Rott said:

Is anyone familiar with this SimCity 4 Tools program or more specifically why I get this error when trying to save a Texture:
 

 

If not, is there an easy way to convert a bmp/jpg/etc file into an overlay/base texture?

Have you tried to select a free ID or check the "disgregard this" option.? Play with both options until the program allows you to save.

[Rott 2,399]

Is there a way to prevent this horizontal warping when rendering:

I have all other programs closed during the rendering as recommended but it seems this being a larger lot than I usually do (3x3) it's almost unavoidable...

[rsc204 21,866]

9 hours ago, Rott said:

Is there a way to prevent this horizontal warping when rendering:

Is that actually happening during the render or is that how it looks in-game? If that's an in-game screenshot, most likely it's a DirectX rendering issue. Open the exported model in Reader and take a gander at the textures there, do you see the same problem? If not, then this problem can't be solved by your modelling app but comes from the game itself.

If it is part of the rendered texture, I suspect that's a scaling problem, whatever we model gets rendered to a fixed-size texture, this means some details may need to be squashed during the process. You can try fiddling around with the size, in this case width of certain details and it might overcome it, but some pixels are being moved left and others are not, which sometimes is just part of the compression process, i.e. inherent to the FSH format. Although changing the object may alter the final result, it's no guarantee.

On 31/10/2022 at 6:18 AM, Rott said:

If not, is there an easy way to convert a bmp/jpg/etc file into an overlay/base texture?

This application is a bit old and frankly there are better tools out there. Personally I recommend GoFSH, but if you work with PNG files you might prefer PNG to FSH Batch (LEX link, but beware it might be down at the moment), instead. GoFSH is a much more powerful tool with many great features for those who work with textures, but it works best with BMP pairs and dedicated alphas. It takes a bit longer to get going, but if you do it'll quickly become the only tool you need.

[Rott 2,399]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Is that actually happening during the render or is that how it looks in-game? If that's an in-game screenshot, most likely it's a DirectX rendering issue. Open the exported model in Reader and take a gander at the textures there, do you see the same problem? If not, then this problem can't be solved by your modelling app but comes from the game itself.

If it is part of the rendered texture, I suspect that's a scaling problem, whatever we model gets rendered to a fixed-size texture, this means some details may need to be squashed during the process. You can try fiddling around with the size, in this case width of certain details and it might overcome it, but some pixels are being moved left and others are not, which sometimes is just part of the compressions process, i.e. inherent to the FSH format. Although changing the object may alter the final result, it's no guarantee.

The screenshot was from game, I opened with Reader and it was also distorted in the same area, albeit slightly differently. I guess using Select and Scale to widen it is my play here?

[rsc204 21,866]

If this were only happening for minor details in the model, scaling would be something you could experiment with, but at one point it occurs with the edge of a wall, which is usually a well-defined object. To expand on the FSH compression issue, essentially as part of this process, groups of pixels get combined, but sometimes it doesn't quite lead to ideal results. This can occur with 3DS max renders too, the preview renders look fine, because the issue only crops up once those are converted to FSH format. I have this problem with the bench on a bus shelter I made for example. When you change the scale or even position of objects, even in just seemingly minor ways, the compression algorithm may produce a slightly different result, because those pixels grouped together change. That could just mean the problem shifts to another area, but sometimes a few tweaks can bring about better results, there is no absolute rule on what to do in these situations, a bit of trial and error is usually needed. In the case of the wall/window frames, perhaps just moving them a tiny bit might be sufficient, otherwise if you can make them a little wider, that too is worth trying.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:30 PM, Rott said:

Is there a way to prevent this horizontal warping when rendering:

I have all other programs closed during the rendering as recommended but it seems this being a larger lot than I usually do (3x3) it's almost unavoidable...

BATs are made out of pre-rendered 2d images that are applied to 3d objects (the LODs).

In a pure 2d game like Super Mario, everything is done by pixels, so you can move forward and Mario's sprite will move forward one pixel, or some other number of pixels, but never half a pixel. In SC4, everything is done in 3d, but the actual images are still 2d, so the 3d placement of objects in the game will not correspond to the pixel grid, you can smoothly move a building across space in the lot editor. You can move the building an amount of 3d space that equals half a pixel.

So in order to keep the 2d images crisp, they are set to snap to the pixel grid. So you can move the building an incremental amount to the right, in 3d space, and the 2d images won't move right until they move right enough to go over to the next pixel.

In addition to that, both the 2d images and the 3d objects (LODs) are broken down into smaller pieces when they're exported for the game.

The problem you're seeing happens when the game snaps the different parts of the building inconsistently. In yours, the building is located at what works out to be about half a pixel over. The upper left part of the building is still snapped to the left, and the rest of the building is snapped to the right.

There's nothing you can do about it, but it happens to every building in the game. You're only noticing it now because you're looking really closely at the building because you're BATing it.

[ncamferdam 1,505]

I'm sure this question gets asked a lot around here, but I'm having trouble finding a straightforward summary of everything.

I've never done any BATing before and would like to give it a try. Setting aside the issue of price, this is what I understand the current situation to be:

• Gmax is fully functional and fully compatible, since SC4 B.A.T is a tool built specifically for this software. However, it is very old, not optimized, and limited in terms of functionality, detail, and polish
• 3Ds Max has much greater power and functionality and uses a file type that is compatible with SC4 B.A.T. However, newer versions post-2018 are not compatible and older versions are not for sale anywhere
• I've seen other software like Blender and Google Sketchup presented as potential tools, but I'm seeing conflicting info on whether or not these can produce files that are readable by SC4 B.A.T. It seems like it might still be necessary to have 3Ds Max as an intermediary.

That all said, what are my actual options as far as software goes? It seems like I might just be limited to using Gmax, if nothing else can be made to work with SC4 B.A.T. Is this accurate?

[rsc204 21,866]

Essentially you've summed things up pretty accurately. If you can get hold of an older version of 3DS Max, it will work, but the only legal method involves finding a second hand copy that includes a valid and transferable licence, which may not even be legal depending on where you are in the world. Even if it is, you need to tread carefully, because if the key doesn't work or stops working, odds are you'd struggle to get your money back.

Blender/Sketchup can't output models in the 2.5D format SC4 requires, that's essentially what the SC4 BAT scripts (for gMax) and BAT 4 Max scripts (for 3DS Max) do. In fact, it's the latter scripts that need updating to take into account the changes made to 3DS Max that prevent current versions from exporting models for SC4. Hence where people have used these in the past, they had to convert the files into 3DS Max to export them.

Some efforts have been made on both creating similar scripts for Blender and updating the 3DS Max scripts, but as of this moment it is unclear if either will ever materialise. So in the here and now, gMax + SC4 BAT is for most users the only viable option.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

At the beginning of this thread there is the Getting Started Guide, which goes through everything you need to do start to finish. I've just added the Gmax installation file and registration workaround to it and have edited a few other steps, so it should be fully up to date now.

 

My BAT4Max update work has stalled because the size and position of the building in renders from Arnold are not matching those from Mental Ray (or Scanline or Vray or any of the other renderers people have dabbled with over the years). As far as I can tell the methods used to size and align the renders are pretty foolproof, and they do work with everything else, so idk what's wrong. Since hitting that dead end I've been going through and detangling all of the code so that it's comprehensible enough for someone from outside of the community to take a look at it. The BAT started with Maxis's scripts, which were modified for Gmax. Then the community took the Gmax scripts and modified them for 3ds Max. Then they've been modified more with later versions of BAT4Max. I would guess that 80% of the code isn't actually used, but it's still connected to everything else.

[Rott 2,399]

Is it possible to get the really spiffy night window mapping in Gmax like this:

[Jasoncw 11,949]

When you add "nite" to the front of an object's name (like some glass) to make it light up at night, it's not applying a texture to 3d space. It masks out that object in the render and then fills in a 2d texture over that area. Since there's no way to map this texture over the counters of the building, it's not possible to use a texture with any details that must be lined up with windows. Which is why those textures are just flat colors with a little bit of noise applied.

However, there are lights in Gmax as well, and those lights have a projector option which lets you select an image for the light to shine. It is possible to create a spotlight projecting a night window texture onto the windows, and carefully positioning the light and the texture so that it lines up with the windows. The lights also have an Exclude option, which lets you specify which objects the light can tough (for example, you can include only the glass, so that the spotlight doesn't light up the window frames and the rest of the facade too) but I don't remember if this option works in gmax or not, because gmax has a lot of broken features.

Alternatively, you can make your glass partially transparent, and then BAT a floor, with a busy looking texture, and then put a spotlight on that to light it up at night. That way the night window texture doesn't have to come from the spotlight. The spotlight is just there to make the existing floor texture bright at night. If you look through the BAT threads of BATers who use gmax, you should be able to find a tutorial with a floor texture to use. I think it's been posted in this thread too.

But it's also fine to just use the generic nitelites. They look better for smaller windows and windows with interesting window frames, and they look bad for large flat expanses of glass.

[Rott 2,399]

That last point you bring up is exactly my issue, on a smaller building or house the 'nite' feature is fine, but the model I'm working on is much bigger so it looks a little lazy, I tried to compensate by using the selection feature to individually change the shade of segments of the windows, but it's only a slight improvement:

 

 

This is just a draft quality render so it looks worse than the final capture but you get the idea...

The opaque glass method is a good one I've done a few times, but given the size of this one, which is already pushing the limits, it would probably be unsustainable (this image is about 1/20th of the size of the building).

This projector method seems like something to try out however, especially if I can alter the brightness/hue. I'm just worried because of the amount of lights it would need for the total windows it would also make this unable to render...

 

[JulioC 2,581]

Hey guys, does anyone knows what causes this? Im talking about these errors in the texture of the front of the building, you can see it near the stairs and the windows

I dont think its a LOD problem since the backside is normal

thanks in advance 

[madhatter106 3,931]

10 hours ago, JulioC said:

Hey guys, does anyone knows what causes this? Im talking about these errors in the texture of the front of the building, you can see it near the stairs and the windows

I dont think its a LOD problem since the backside is normal

thanks in advance 

Are you using gmax, and (if so), are you using transparent textures for the glass?
I have found that sometimes when I do this, no matter what the opacity is for transparent glass, it will appear to "singe" the edges of the BAT if it is less than 100% opacity.  There will be several pixels here and there that might appear to be burned.
This, however, is not the case when you examine the FSH's in the Reader. It's just a weird graphical thing that pops up now and then.  I don't think it's specific to hardware or software rendering - as I've seen it in both. 
It's one of the reasons why I like to shy away from doing transparent glass textures -anything less than 100% opacity might cause this weird gmax pixel "singe."

[JulioC 2,581]

9 hours ago, madhatter106 said:

Are you using gmax, and (if so), are you using transparent textures for the glass?
I have found that sometimes when I do this, no matter what the opacity is for transparent glass, it will appear to "singe" the edges of the BAT if it is less than 100% opacity.  There will be several pixels here and there that might appear to be burned.
This, however, is not the case when you examine the FSH's in the Reader. It's just a weird graphical thing that pops up now and then.  I don't think it's specific to hardware or software rendering - as I've seen it in both. 
It's one of the reasons why I like to shy away from doing transparent glass textures -anything less than 100% opacity might cause this weird gmax pixel "singe."

Yes - to both questions!

But it is kinda random, right? I used the same technique in this BAT

and had no such problem

I like to use semi-transparent glass textures because I feel it gives us a more realistic look, and also because it helps me to create that kind of nightlight that dont use the nightmaps textures, which I dont like much either 😅

tbh I actually dont care about nightlights, since I dont play with that setting, but as I'm publishing my work I know theres a lot of people out there that likes to have their buildings glow up at night

Thanks for your help btw 😁

[madhatter106 3,931]

6 hours ago, JulioC said:

Yes - to both questions!

But it is kinda random, right? I used the same technique in this BAT

and had no such problem

I like to use semi-transparent glass textures because I feel it gives us a more realistic look, and also because it helps me to create that kind of nightlight that dont use the nightmaps textures, which I dont like much either 😅

tbh I actually dont care about nightlights, since I dont play with that setting, but as I'm publishing my work I know theres a lot of people out there that likes to have their buildings glow up at night

Thanks for your help btw 😁

Yeah, it is very random.  I did over two dozen buildings with transparent glass textures with no issues whatsoever.  Then I did one that had this weird edged pixel "singe," despite rendering it at least twice.  I remember even posting about it back in 2010 or 2011...I've seen it on laptops with a good graphics card, and I've seen it on my current laptop which has the power of a Commodore 64; there is no rhyme or reason, apart from the opacity on the glass.  I think it might have something to do with the color/hue/saturation/value of certain textures involved, as it seems to only plague certain buildings.  But the thing it has in common is the transparent, non-100% opacity, texture.

I agree, semi-transparent glass does indeed achieve a good result in gmax.  But I've found that I've needed to work around having it, if I want to completely avoid the transparent texture "singe."  The good thing, though, as I mentioned before, is that this is not "baked into" the FSH files - on different computers, you won't get this result.  A quick check in the Reader assuaged my fears in that case when it first happened to me...

[JulioC 2,581]

3 hours ago, madhatter106 said:

Yeah, it is very random.  I did over two dozen buildings with transparent glass textures with no issues whatsoever.  Then I did one that had this weird edged pixel "singe," despite rendering it at least twice.  I remember even posting about it back in 2010 or 2011...I've seen it on laptops with a good graphics card, and I've seen it on my current laptop which has the power of a Commodore 64; there is no rhyme or reason, apart from the opacity on the glass.  I think it might have something to do with the color/hue/saturation/value of certain textures involved, as it seems to only plague certain buildings.  But the thing it has in common is the transparent, non-100% opacity, texture.

I agree, semi-transparent glass does indeed achieve a good result in gmax.  But I've found that I've needed to work around having it, if I want to completely avoid the transparent texture "singe."  The good thing, though, as I mentioned before, is that this is not "baked into" the FSH files - on different computers, you won't get this result.  A quick check in the Reader assuaged my fears in that case when it first happened to me...

Yep, the FSH files looks normal on the iLives reader

Thank you for you help and tips, I will try to upload it on my BAT thread to see if other people have this problem. Ty again. 😁