New to SC4, setting up deal between Kensington and Fulham

[FeTheC 25]

Hi, so I'm pretty new to sc4 (did/understand everything in the tutorials and a bit more).
I like the London map and would like to continue Building up on kensington and fulham. In kensington I built about three pwerline squares over the already existing ones in order to form a Connection to fulham. The issue is that since I don't get power from fulham yet, my pumps arent producing water and so fulham cant get water leaving it unwatered- even though the deals are still in place for water n garbage(since it seems a part of the original set up.)
What do I Need to do in order to get the power deal working so the water deal also functions and I'm left with the trades between providing for each that which they Need. Fulhams powerplant capacity is well over the 1k extra needed compared to what is being used (so i have enough to make the deal).
My Impression based on some Research, is that i Need to build a few windmills in kensington, enough to power everything, get the City running for a bit, and then destroy them and the deal should be possible.
I would appreciate a simple to follow step by step ish Explanation. Do i Need to wait 1 month after destroying the windmills again (was that even correct?)? do i Need to build water Towers or so in fulham just for the time that water isnt provided? thanks in advance

P.S will passing time in kensington lead to time going by in fulham? I'm confused since they have deals and it seems weird that i could draw power from a neighboring Region build up this one then go back to that Region and obliterate it to get my Money back.
 

[FeTheC 25]

also i just realized, is this a bug? am i gettin paid for water even though i cant provide any?

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

5 hours ago, FeTheC said:

In kensington I built about three pwerline squares over the already existing ones in order to form a Connection to fulham.

Yep. That is the first thing to do.

 

5 hours ago, FeTheC said:

I would appreciate a simple to follow step by step ish Explanation

Ok, here ya go:

Start with the Kennsington city tile:

 

As you already mentioned, you'll want to make the power line connection to Fulham. (I also paused the game whilst there.)

 

You can tell you have the proper connection by the arrow in that edge power tower:

 

Save. Then Exit Without Saving and load up Fulham. I paused it too. Extend the power lines so they come up to the existing development:

 

Add another coal power plant somewhere:

 

Go into the Budget Neighbor Deals and select the Sell option for 2000MWh/mo:

 

Save. Then Exit Without Saving and go back into Kennsington.

Spoiler

I don't use any of the U-Drive It missions and so those floating bubbles bug me. I click the My Sim Mode button:

 

Then click the U Drive It button:

 

Click the Mission Indicators On/Off button:

 

And I can see they are turned off cause it's now dimmed out:

 

This is not a requirement. Just my own preference.

 

So, now back in Kennsington, I've turned on time and watched the Jobs & Population graph until the city has grown:

 

Then back to Fulham again after saving Kennsington, turn on time, and I'm concerned about the budget. I watch that while it runs:

 

After a while I see some buildings showing the No Water Zot and I check the Water graph:

 

I pop up the neighbor deals and increase the buy rate to 13290cu m/mo:

 

Let if run a bit while watching the Water graph:

 

After a while I see the landfill is becoming full:

 

So, I zone a wee bit more:

 

The important thing to remember is that the landfills have a slight bug. As long as you do not let any newly zoned landfill touch any part of the previous one (not even at the corners) they will be fine. Otherwise, you get a glitched landfill that will not accept any more trash and also requires a mod to get rid of.

From here, you have the basics of the two cities working together. You'll have more challenges like not enough Fire Protection and Traffic, but this should get you going.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

6 hours ago, FeTheC said:

P.S will passing time in kensington lead to time going by in fulham?

I forgot to answer this. No, no time passes in any city while you are not in it. Only when you have time turned on in the current city tile does it move forward.

 

6 hours ago, FeTheC said:

also i just realized, is this a bug? am i gettin paid for water even though i cant provide any?

Only for a short time unless you can actually produce the water. If you just run the city without the power the deal will cancel itself.

[FeTheC 25]

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

The important thing to remember is that the landfills have a slight bug. As long as you do not let any newly zoned landfill touch any part of the previous one (not even at the corners) they will be fine. Otherwise, you get a glitched landfill that will not accept any more trash and also requires a mod to get rid of.

ahahahaha, I just discovered it. I ended up making a new Region and Building a City and was like, hey wait a second i can'T dezone it! googled it and learned about it. Although I'm gonna get beck to this cause I mightve accidentally discovered a trick when it Comes to this not sure...

Firstly, thank you so much for the detailed answer! that answered it and much more (like why after i canceled the deal only lesser quantities were able to be offered- i guessed it had to do with the amount I was able to supply but this confirmed it) Also I wasn'T Aware I had to make the Connection form both regions. On that note, do the Connections Need to be lined up (if so is this the case for roads too?

now, concerning the landfill Thing...  while i was Building the landfill i was still able to add to it in a manner i couldnt later on (I'm assuming it was because i had it paused-and honestly im guessing this would also be the reason why the fix doesn't work), by which i mean, i know i can't normally place a single tile or two tiles, but i seemed to be able to do this before it was filled up (i.e on an A-D by 1-4 grid, c2/c3/c4 and d2/d3/d4 and b3/b4 were land fill yet i could drag over it to make it an even 3x3) . I'm wondering if this trick could somehow be used to get by the bug. E.g one makes a preexisting fill square then deletes it? I'm guessing not once the landfill has any space used up.

Otherwise I already researched a bit and learned how to if really needed ensure that it disappears or can be dezoned (though it can take a bit of in game time if not using a mod, if it Comes to that ill worry about it then, for now im still learning much else first)

p.s i thought i read the bug is triggered based on if the  landfill (or preexisting one) is not a square (which is why i thought if one can manage to turn it into a square- though that may be wicked costly, and considering all the mods etc a waste of time)
 

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

7 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

Also I wasn'T Aware I had to make the Connection form both regions. On that note, do the Connections Need to be lined up (if so is this the case for roads too?

When you make the connection from the first city tile it will poke thru a stub of road (or rail, or avenue, or highway, or subway, or water pipe, or power line) into the second city. Once in that other city tile you know where it's coming thru and yes, you do then just extend from it.

 

9 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

now, concerning the landfill Thing...

I'm basically going off of my own experience prior to even finding or joining ST. I had a city where I kept zoning more adjacent to an existing landfill and those parts would not fill up. Then I zoned a separate one and it did take on garbage. Way later after I was a member here and had read a wee bit about the landfills being bugged I never worried too much about them cause I always made separate new ones. If I wanted to move one I'd make a new one elsewhere and then bulldoze the road connection to the first. Let time run and eventually the trash would evaporate in that first landfill. Once empty I could dezone it.

Then one time I made the mistake of zoning a new landfill such that only the corners touched. It seemed to fill up fine, but the garbage in one corner was oddly shaped and no new landfills would take on any trash. My in game solution to the crisis was to build a waste to energy plant and that handled the garbage, but to afford that I had to bulldoze all my fire stations.

I then grabbed the mod that makes the trash go away almost instantly and it worked. I then dezoned the touching landfill, created a new one, and got rid of the expensive, smelly trash burner.

All that to say, I'm not an expert with this, but those are the steps I've taken in my mayorial rolls.

[FeTheC 25]

yea i tried around a bit didnt seem to work, ill just pick up a mod or tough it out. thanks again!

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

3 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

ill just pick up a mod ...

For reference, I used the Landfill Eraser Mod.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

15 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

landfills have a slight bug. As long as you do not let any newly zoned landfill touch any part of the previous one (not even at the corners) they will be fine. Otherwise, you get a glitched landfill that will not accept any more trash and also requires a mod to get rid of.

Wow, I've had problems with the few landfills I've had the misfortune to build, but if I ever read about the bug before (like when I first started playing in 2013), I completely forgot about it. I only know that I hate working with landfills, so I avoid them.

I use PEG's garbage docks (my region has lots of watery cities to which I can ship my garbage for export). The hitch (maybe) is that it seems that I must have a road or avenue connection. I've recently had difficulty where a Maxis highway was my only connection across a border. The highway didn't seem to be enough to enable a garbage deal (though I may have had some other obstacle). I haven't tested a rail-only border yet.

12 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

the Landfill Eraser Mod.

Ahhh... I need to try that in the one city where I built what I'd planned as a "temporary" landfill 

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

Ok, so no one asked for this, but here are the next steps I took.

Back in Fulham there seems to be a great penchant for fires to break out:

 

So, taking a gander at the Fire Station's settings we see it is underfunded and the coverage radius is too small to protect all the buildings:

 

Crank up the funding to $270 and now we can feel safe:

^ Note: The little fire hats will all turn red indicating sufficient funding once I turn on time. We also see a No Water Zot over on the left side.

 

Jump underground and add some pipes:

 

Above ground we can see everything is watered now:

 

In preparation for growth in Kensington,  I zoned for a lot more incoming garbage:

 

However, that means we have a deficit in the budget. How can we get more income without raising taxes? Let's check the incoming traffic from our neighbor:

 

The second road from the left is the busiest, so let's toss in some toll booths. Say, six of them. (Sims don't mind stopping to pay their fare every couple inches of travel.)

 

Turn on time and now we have a positive cash flow:

 

Let it run for a while and check on the garbage levels:

 

Having saved Fulham, I'm now over in Kensington. Checking the Fire Coverage overlay I see there is no protection at all.

 

And the sole Medical Clinic is overwhelmed with patients:

 

Bulldoze and dezone that area and I plopped in a full sized hospital (Large Medical Center) and a Large Fire Station.

 

I then added two more fire stations for full coverage of all the developed areas:

 

The health coverage from the hospital doesn't quite cover all of the low density neighborhood on the southeast side of town. I added a small Medical Clinic and adjusted the funding:

 

Then back to the main hospital and adjust its funding too:

 

We're a little short on income so I added a single toll booth to make up the difference:

 

And being budget conscious, I also tweaked the Elementary School's funding:

^ As you can see the population has some ripples in it. That'll need some attention later on.

 

With the population as stable as it's going to get (for now) in Kensington I saved and went back to Fulham. Let it run a while watching the City Income and Expenses graph:

 

All good here for Income and Fire Protection. Traffic, however is a nightmare:

 

Save the city and go back to Kensington one more time. Let's see if it is stable for Income:

^ Yep. It can hold its own for now. (You'll notice the No Jobs Zots. Those peeps can't get to their jobs. Might be a traffic problem.)

 

Checking the traffic, it's terribly congested too:

 

The simple solution, ofc, is to install the NAM. To continue in pure vanilla with no mods at all, one would look into various types of public transportation and/or widening some Roads to Avenues. I'll leave that for y'all to figure out.

 

[FeTheC 25]

I'Ve got one mod so far and it is NAM  (installed using the Option under custom, so the 2nd most full package i think.)
Now, I know that the waste to energy plant has quite an upkeep (which of Course can be adjusted) but if one were to set up one or two more neighboring cities or perhaps use it instead of the coal plant I believe it would be beneficial for this fulham. I think I noticed (should be obvious, but i wasnt sure since im still learnin) that the WTE plant NEEDS sufficient amounts of garbage to function, i.e no garbage no power.

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

7 hours ago, FeTheC said:

Now, I know that the waste to energy plant has quite an upkeep (which of Course can be adjusted) but if one were to set up one or two more neighboring cities or perhaps use it instead of the coal plant I believe it would be beneficial for this fulham.

It would be an option. The key thing to keep in mind is the cost per month. For comparison I'll use the normal 100% funding numbers even tho the slider lets one adjust the cost and power output.

The Waste to Energy Plant (per Devotion's Wiki) costs $1000 per month to produce 5,000 MWh/month and we need two of these in Fulham atm. The Coal Power Plant costs $250 per month to produce 6,000 MWh/month and we also need two of these. So that's $500 per month for 12,000 MWh or $2000 for 10,000 MWh. We'd need to come up with an additional $1500 per month income to break even on the cost while producing 2000 MWh less.

(Edit: The above calc should also factor in the reduced cost of land fills. Those can be scaled down to a single 2x2 to make this all function. Y'all can do the math, but I'm fairly certain it's still more costly to use the WTE. )

Obviously one can use any number of money cheats and then the cost does not matter. (I've used the Money Park 10.5 in the past and it does a great job.) Otherwise, if staying with plain vanilla then we'd need some other way to overcome the budget deficit. When ready to phase out Dirty Industry while not removing any of them one can crank their tax rate up to 20%. None of the existing ones will leave, but no new ones will grow either. Or do the Toll Booth trick a lot more to get the extra income.

You could also exploit the bug mentioned: " A bug in the game means that the funding for these plants can be lowered to the minimum, meaning that it will produce no power, minimal pollution and cost nothing, but still consume the maximum amount of garbage as if it was fully funded. ", but would still need to produce the power with other plants.

 

7 hours ago, FeTheC said:

... the WTE plant NEEDS sufficient amounts of garbage to function, i.e no garbage no power.

With regard to power produced, this is correct.

[FeTheC 25]

boahhh; I just read up on exactly how broken the toll booth mechanics for sc4 are...wow  well, fairly certain ill never have to concern myself much with budgeting ever again.
i posted a coupla mod ideas which stemmed to a certain extent from this, maybe youll find em interesting, or know of previous attempts to make similar ones (i searched a bit but didnt find anything similar)
Thanks a lot, again, for all the work ya put into this. I've moved onto starting from scratch at this Point with an empty Region, it's workin out well. Lovin this whole discovery Phase experience !! I could hardly believe just how simple downloading maps was. Once i've enjoyed buildin up a few more cities to a further extent I'll prolly move onto playing with the god mode Manipulator (saw ya put a bunch of tutorials), but im goin at it slow n steady for now and enjoyin every bit :) Though i did learn that mountains can be great at blocking Pollution! anyways, im not tryna stray too far off Topic (i think i finally understand why older Posts are shown first and not more recent ones, haha) 
 

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

52 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

I just read up on exactly how broken the toll booth mechanics for sc4 are...wow

Hmm. I've not read anything about them being broken. (Never knew I ought to ) So, now I'll prolly have to go searching.

(Edit: So I found this about the Toll Booths: "... they greatly worsen congestion and generally have a much lower capacity than the network they are on. " Is that what you are referring to? If so, I found there is already a fix for it: Toll Booth Booster V2.0)

 

52 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

i posted a coupla mod ideas which stemmed to a certain extent from this, maybe youll find em interesting, or know of previous attempts to make similar ones (i searched a bit but didnt find anything similar)

Those would be this one and that one. I'll let the experts reply there since I generally don't follow any of the modding discussions. My limited knowledge suggests both would be near impossible to create tho.

 

52 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

I've moved onto starting from scratch at this Point with an empty Region, it's workin out well.

After I completed the initial Timbuktu tutorials that's how I went too. I did lots of God Mode terraforming and then just started playing my own cities.

 

52 minutes ago, FeTheC said:

(i think i finally understand why older Posts are shown first and not more recent ones, haha)

(Like reading a book. One starts at the beginning and later stuff follows earlier things.)

[CorinaMarie 29,856]

One thing I discovered is there are two other city tiles that are named, but not actually a part of the region map. It's like they were created and then discarded. Look at the city tiles in File Explorer and you'll see City - Sydenham.sc4 and City - Woolwich.sc4. I mentioned this to @Cyclone Boom and he found where they should go using the Region Census program.

So, just for fun I imported them in their defined locations. They were in God Mode and were not named after the imports so I fixed that based on the Region data:

 

[The Thinker 479]

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

One thing I discovered is there are two other city tiles that are named, but not actually a part of the region map. It's like they were created and then discarded. Look at the city tiles in File Explorer and you'll see City - Sydenham.sc4 and City - Woolwich.sc4. I mentioned this to @Cyclone Boom and he found where they should go using the Region Census program.

So, just for fun I imported them in their defined locations. They were in God Mode and were not named after the imports so I fixed that based on the Region data:

 

And roughly in accordance with their real-world locations too, I note.  That said, IRL Kensington is actually more to the north-west of Fulham than it is here; personally I'd have named the city lot of Fulham to Chelsea instead...

 

But at this point I'm clearly nitpicking... 

[FeTheC 25]

On ‎15‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 9:00 PM, CorinaMarie said:

Hmm. I've not read anything about them being broken. (Never knew I ought to ) So, now I'll prolly have to go searching.

i think i read this one first, some of the Facts seem different from what seems to be the case like the maintenance cost.

and on the bottom theres a comment I'll Quote a bit from BlakeMW
''There is an extra-evil trick which I invented a long time ago which I nicknamed the 'coin wringer', it exploits the fact that Sim's only care about their commute time to work, they don't care about their commute time from work. See where I'm going with this?

 

So make a one way road or roads to the work sectors. The only way back should be via a gauntlet of toll booths, you can't build toll booths on one way roads, but you don't need to because sims can't travel back along the one way road they came on. The Sims have no choice, having gone to work, they have to come home, no matter how much it costs them. This exploit allows you to generate arbitrary incomes. (Note: They might eventually decide to walk back along the one way road rather than pass through the 50 toll booths—apparently abandoning their car—there are cunning ways to make one-way filters such as bus on a one way road, then onto rail which doesn't permit walking and absolutely forces them to go through toll booths on the way home).

 

Note that you can also toll pedestrians. This may be a little surprising, but the toll booth does not discriminate, every sim passing through it gets tolled, even those on foot.''