Can see "through" plop's floors

[JurisicSantiago 23]

Hello there! I wanted to start creating some cities with ploppable buildings, so I downloaded several ones (dk1's and madhatter106's collections).

In-game I've encountered this "error" every time I plopped a building. I remember downloading every dependency the buildings required.

I have attached an image showing what's happening.

Any ideas for solving this issue? I would really appreciate your help and wisdom!!!

 

 

[rsc204 21,836]

3 hours ago, JurisicSantiago said:

I remember downloading every dependency the buildings required.

Well I'm sorry to tell you that you don't have all of them. This visual "bug" occurs when you have missing base textures on a lot that also has overlay textures upon it. Or in other words you are missing a texture-based dependency.

In the first instance, you should carefully go through the dependency lists for the affected lots and double check everything. If that doesn't help, maybe a dependency wasn't listed on the download/readme, but since that's pretty difficult to repair, you should be 100% certain you have all the listed files beforehand.

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

As @rsc204 mentioned it can be a dependency that wasn't mentioned. I've read several times many batters use the bldgprop_vol1.dat and bldgprop_vol2.dat from Maxis when batting, but don't list them as a dependency since they expect everyone will have them installed. That'll be my guess for what's missing. (I'd grab a linky to them, but I'm running short on time before I have to get ready for work this morning.)

[JurisicSantiago 23]

10 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Well I'm sorry to tell you that you don't have all of them. This visual "bug" occurs when you have missing base textures on a lot that also has overlay textures upon it. Or in other words you are missing a texture-based dependency.

In the first instance, you should carefully go through the dependency lists for the affected lots and double check everything. If that doesn't help, maybe a dependency wasn't listed on the download/readme, but since that's pretty difficult to repair, you should be 100% certain you have all the listed files beforehand.

That's what I'll do, although it seems quite some work to do since I've downloaded more than 60 plops at one   

 

8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

As @rsc204 mentioned it can be a dependency that wasn't mentioned. I've read several times many batters use the bldgprop_vol1.dat and bldgprop_vol2.dat from Maxis when batting, but don't list them as a dependency since they expect everyone will have them installed. That'll be my guess for what's missing. (I'd grab a linky to them, but I'm running short on time before I have to get ready for work this morning.)

Thank you for listing those .dat files!!! I'll first download them and try if they solved the issue. If not, as rsc204 said, I'll check every dependency.

 

 

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

@JurisicSantiago

You can grab those files here.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

14 hours ago, JurisicSantiago said:

I remember downloading every dependency the buildings required

Ah, but did you carefully read the dependencies of the dependencies?

[matias93 7,535]

10 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

Ah, but did you carefully read the dependencies of the dependencies?

terrible but true, several dependencies have dependencies of their own

[Odainsaker 2,135]

These would appear to be the downloads for dk1's buildings:

 

They indeed do indicate "no dependencies."  Moreover, I can't recreate the see-through texture problem, even when putting them into completely clean plugins folders with Maxis DLC removed.  The Lot Editor seems to show they use default Maxis base and overlay textures.  Having just freshly downloaded and tested these buildings in game, I can vouch that they at least work for me.

Is it possible there is some sort of custom override texture set or combination of sets elsewhere in your plugins that are somehow being incompatible?  Are these buildings perhaps relots from elsewhere with a new set of base and overlay textures that are not being mentioned by the relotter?

A simple test would be to temporarily rename your current plugins folder at ...\Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins as "Plugins OLD" and then create a new folder named "Plugins", into which you would install only the downloaded and unzipped files for dk1's Kroger and gas stations.  Load SimCity 4 using this newly created plugins folder with only the two downloaded buildings and then start a brand new city.  As we do not want anything to reference items from your renamed old plugins folder, this should be a completely new city to avoid errors or delays.  Within the new city, plop these buildings and look to see if the same see-through texture error occurs.  If the buildings work correctly, there is an incompatibility with something in the folder we had renamed "Plugins OLD".  If the buildings continue to show the see-though texture error, there may be something wrong with your basic SimCity 4 setup's default textures, necessitating a check of your version, applied patches, and potential corruption.  After testing, you can undo these changes by first deleting the folder we had created named "Plugins" with its two downloaded buildings, and then rename your original folder we had previously renamed as "Plugins OLD" back to "Plugins".

 

[JurisicSantiago 23]

1 hour ago, Odainsaker said:

These would appear to be the downloads for dk1's buildings:

 

They indeed do indicate "no dependencies."  Moreover, I can't recreate the see-through texture problem, even when putting them into completely clean plugins folders with Maxis DLC removed.  The Lot Editor seems to show they use default Maxis base and overlay textures.  Having just freshly downloaded and tested these buildings in game, I can vouch that they at least work for me.

Is it possible there is some sort of custom override texture set or combination of sets elsewhere in your plugins that are somehow being incompatible?  Are these buildings perhaps relots from elsewhere with a new set of base and overlay textures that are not being mentioned by the relotter?

A simple test would be to temporarily rename your current plugins folder at ...\Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins as "Plugins OLD" and then create a new folder named "Plugins", into which you would install only the downloaded and unzipped files for dk1's Kroger and gas stations.  Load SimCity 4 using this newly created plugins folder with only the two downloaded buildings and then start a brand new city.  As we do not want anything to reference items from your renamed old plugins folder, this should be a completely new city to avoid errors or delays.  Within the new city, plop these buildings and look to see if the same see-through texture error occurs.  If the buildings work correctly, there is an incompatibility with something in the folder we had renamed "Plugins OLD".  If the buildings continue to show the see-though texture error, there may be something wrong with your basic SimCity 4 setup's default textures, necessitating a check of your version, applied patches, and potential corruption.  After testing, you can undo these changes by first deleting the folder we had created named "Plugins" with its two downloaded buildings, and then rename your original folder we had previously renamed as "Plugins OLD" back to "Plugins".

 

I think I love you      

[JurisicSantiago 23]

Well, I did what Odainsaker said: emptied my Plugins folder and left only my Gas Stations plops. Surprisingly, the issue still remains. Should I verify the integrity of my files? (Steam version).

 

I am quite lost now 

 

 

[JurisicSantiago 23]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

For future users having the same issue: it was caused by a command line set up on the Steam launch options.

 

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1366x768x32 -f -d:DirectX -Cursors:fullcolor -Intro:off -UserDir:"D:\Data\SimCity 4" -CPUPriority:high -CPUCount:1

What I'm thinking is that the path "D:\Data\SimCity 4" was messed-up, since I forgot to update it to the correct directory.

 

Thank you all for your help!!!

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

1 minute ago, JurisicSantiago said:

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

WOOT!!!

[Odainsaker 2,135]

Awesome that you were able to find and resolve it, because that last picture had my head completely stumped with "why on earth did my little advice lead THAT to now happen!"

[rsc204 21,836]

Quote

What I'm thinking is that the path "D:\Data\SimCity 4" was messed-up, since I forgot to update it to the correct directory.

That can't be correct, because if the path was wrong, the new content you had there simply couldn't have worked in the first place. I.e. you would never have seen any custom buildings as shown in your first screenshot.

Of course, messed up is also not really the right word, the default path is Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins, if you changed that, you must tell the game to look for it elsewhere. Since it's not an option you can change during installation.

9 hours ago, JurisicSantiago said:

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

For future users having the same issue: it was caused by a command line set up on the Steam launch options.

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1366x768x32 -f -d:DirectX -Cursors:fullcolor -Intro:off -UserDir:"D:\Data\SimCity 4" -CPUPriority:high -CPUCount:1

Most likely this was fixed by enabling DirectX rendering (orange). Whatever you were using before may not have properly supported transparency, leading to artefacts. This is essentially all related to your Video Card and it's drivers. If you want to test to see if this was indeed the cause, change -d:DirectX to either:

• -d:software
• -d:opengl

Then you can see which of the three rendering options was behind the issue. It's possible that using full screen -f made a difference too, some drivers don't support windowed mode (-w) very well, leading to glitches. But my money would be on the rendering settings.

 

[JurisicSantiago 23]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:14 AM, rsc204 said:

That can't be correct, because if the path was wrong, the new content you had there simply couldn't have worked in the first place. I.e. you would never have seen any custom buildings as shown in your first screenshot.

Of course, messed up is also not really the right word, the default path is Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins, if you changed that, you must tell the game to look for it elsewhere. Since it's not an option you can change during installation.

Most likely this was fixed by enabling DirectX rendering (orange). Whatever you were using before may not have properly supported transparency, leading to artefacts. This is essentially all related to your Video Card and it's drivers. If you want to test to see if this was indeed the cause, change -d:DirectX to either:

• -d:software
• -d:opengl

Then you can see which of the three rendering options was behind the issue. It's possible that using full screen -f made a difference too, some drivers don't support windowed mode (-w) very well, leading to glitches. But my money would be on the rendering settings.

 

I'm sorry I took so long to answer!!! Been studying for some finals I've got next week     

You're right sir! Tested what you stated and that was the origin of my "issue". Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge with us!   

[Prophet42 1,503]

Even using -d:DirectX or -d:OpenGL you may still get the issue on some lots.  I have one set of lots, the Pegaus Mountain paths, that look fine when they are first plopped, but develop the clear base after a while.  I have tried both the DirectX and OpenGL setting.  So far they are the only lots that exhibit the problem on my system (Windows 7 Pro, with Intel Graphics)

[rsc204 21,836]

9 hours ago, Prophet42 said:

So far they are the only lots that exhibit the problem on my system (Windows 7 Pro, with Intel Graphics)

The issue will almost certainly be a limitation of the driver in use. Have you tried updating the driver?, the last one Intel released for Win7 (mid-late 2016) seemed to resolve all these issues in the brief time I had my Nvidia card removed.

[Prophet42 1,503]

10 hours ago, rsc204 said:

The issue will almost certainly be a limitation of the driver in use. Have you tried updating the driver?, the last one Intel released for Win7 (mid-late 2016) seemed to resolve all these issues in the brief time I had my Nvidia card removed.

I actually did update the driver in 2016 with the one you mentioned (and acutally you had suggested in another post..Thanks )  Before I updated the driver I could only use the OpenGL option.  DirextX would give me black voids everywhere.  With the latest driver I can now use the DirectX option with no issue except the clear base for the Mountain Paths.

If I want to take a snapshot that includes the mountain paths, I just demolish them and re-plop them.  Kind of an annoyance, but I can live with it. 

[rsc204 21,836]

1 hour ago, Prophet42 said:

If I want to take a snapshot that includes the mountain paths, I just demolish them and re-plop them.  Kind of an annoyance, but I can live with it. 

Doesn't switching Zones data view on and off temporarily resolve the problem? Seems odd it's just one set of lots causing the issue too, are you sure you aren't missing a base texture you need installed?

[Prophet42 1,503]

Unfortunately, switch zone view does not take care of the issue.  I did double check the install with the dependency list and also have in the past re-downloaded the file just to be sure I had everything.  The weird thing is that when I first plop the lots they are perfectly normal.  It is only after I change a zoom level with the lots out of view, and then go back to view the lots, that the clear base appears.  Once the clear base appears it stays until either I demolish the lot and replop, or exit the city and then reload it.

[Flat Raver 59]

Software rendering and OpenGL don't support HD textures, right?

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

17 minutes ago, Flat Raver said:

Software rendering and OpenGL don't support HD textures, right?

Correct. Only DirectX supports HD in the game.

[Prophet42 1,503]

55 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Correct. Only DirectX supports HD in the game.

I don't think that is correct.  I used OpenGL for many years with plenty of HD content and no issues (other than the PEG Mountain Trails).  I only switched last year to DirectX when Intel updated their driver.  Before that, any HD content that I was using was a black graphic blob if I used DirectX. The only option that worked for me using HD content was OpenGL.

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

7 hours ago, Prophet42 said:

I don't think that is correct.

You are correct my statement was technically incorrect. I should have said: Only directX fully supports HD.

OpenGL will load the game with HD textures and not Crash To Desktop. However, it is prone to graphical glitches.

[Prophet42 1,503]

16 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

OpenGL will load the game with HD textures and not Crash To Desktop. However, it is prone to graphical glitches.

That I would agree with.  I do remember now that when I tried using some shipping containers by Fanta1990 (posted by apeek), I did get some graphical oddities.  The containers were all solid colors with no detail.  When I switched to DirectX (after driver update), the containers displayed normally.  However, while I was using OpenGL, all my other HD content displayed normally.

[rsc204 21,836]

The definition of HD content is the key to understanding this behaviour.

Technically any texture 256x256 or lower can be displayed by any of the rendering options. Some HD content, like BATs only use 256x256 textures, so are fine for use regardless. However, textures larger than this will cause Software Rendering to CTD, in fact I'd imagine that would be the case using such textures for terrain/rock/water mods too. But when applied to a true 3D model like automata, you get instead a block of four colours like a test pattern. Usually that appears when the textures for an S3D model are missing, but I believe something with the OpenGL renderer makes those appear when a high res texture can not be displayed.

[Flat Raver 59]

So if I'm using an HD terrain mod, AND I get those hole lot bugs, I'm screwed, right?

[rsc204 21,836]

Well the first question would be does the HD terrain mod work as expected? If it does, then there is no reason why you can't use it.

The holes are nothing to do with using a HD terrain. They appear because the game doesn't support transparency properly. So whilst you can safely have a lot with no textures for full transparency, what you can't have are Overlay Textures without a Base Texture or partial transparency. Commonly these issues occur in one of two scenarios:

• The creator knew that their lot would trigger this bug, but preferred that method because it's the only way to achieve partial transparency.
• A Base Texture is missing from your plugins folder and thus it triggers the bug because only the Overlay Textures are displayed.

The simple test in such cases is to toggle zones view on/off, if that removes the black objects, then either of the above is your problem.

If such graphical oddities are not resolved by this method, perhaps a graphics compatibility issue is preventing things from working. In which case follow through this tutorial, which hopefully will resolve it: