Climate change - Worse than Predicted

[EAGCE 2]

Date:11/5/2004 11:24:28 AM
Author:beesbees

 

8.2 litres is pathetic. You only need to go, what, 70 mph max. if you stay in the speed limit. You dont need it.

The problem with america: Everyone has to be seen to have it all. Dont care what else happens to anyone or anything else, as long as they look big. Its to make up for lack of size.

quote>

Nobody goes that slow on the highway.  When I'm on I-95, I go about 80-85 mph. Sometimes higher.

[Playa del Carmen 0]

Date: 11/5/2004 12:14:09 PM
Author: vidioman

Well, from what I've seen, it's only the Americans that don't care. There are people in other countries that don't, but it's the aemricans that show this the most. Albertans don't really care about global warming, they hate Kyoto Accord, they have kept their jobs and still have factories that do pollute. Calgarys LRT system runs off wind power, and many of Albertas newst buildings are very energy efficient. At least they are making up for it. Take a lok at pollution distribution in the great lakes. In lake superior, aside from a dot in Thunder Bay Harbour, it's all on your side. You guys have tons of water, too. Oceans. Use desalinations. You can actually have a desalination plant and use the evaporating water to power the plant so that it runs itself, and then take the salt and sell it and make even more of a profit, while at the same time getting pure drinking water, 100% water, chlorine free. It's dirt cheap too. why don't you try that?

Hybrid cars, in a world with gas prices reaching almost 6 US dollars per gallon, and oil prices near the $50 a barrel mark, we have to realise that we are using too much, and need to slow down. A hybrid car is the most economic choice. Who fcares about powerful engines? If you live in a city, you don't need one, you'll be stick in grid lock most of the day. Aside from tax incentives and low cost, a hybrid car would save you THOUSANDS of dollars a year. so does public transit. Yearly daily use of public transit expensies is only about 7% what it cost to operate a car yearly.

Why do you need a 50' TV, explain without saying it's 'cool and for the experience' and explain why you can't find a good bar/pub or whatever to go to to watch a sporting event there.

remember, waste not want not. Waste too much, and there wont be anything left. And the average Canadain lives to 81.

If you don't care about the earths future, and plan to die before anything goes wrong without helping, maybe you shouldn't have kids.

quote>

1.)By Americans you mean North and South America, right? I mean do you honestly think people in Mexico give a flying fig? Have you ever been to Mexico? Houston is an operating room in comparison to even some of the well-kept touristy parts of Mexico.
2.) Uh, desalination isn't cheap.
3.) Can you drive yet? Horsepower has gotten me out of more than one pickle and kept me out of a whole lot more. Less horsepower is fine in the cities but when 75% of your driving is on the interstate, you might as well be in a go kart.

[The Evil Octopus Man 25]

Date:11/5/2004 1:46:44 PM
Author:EAGCE

Date:11/5/2004 11:24:28 AM
Author:beesbees

 

8.2 litres is pathetic. You only need to go, what, 70 mph max. if you stay in the speed limit. You dont need it.

The problem with america: Everyone has to be seen to have it all. Dont care what else happens to anyone or anything else, as long as they look big. Its to make up for lack of size.

quote>

Nobody goes that slow on the highway.  When I'm on I-95, I go about 80-85 mph. Sometimes higher.

quote>

I was terrified when I was going to Sacramento along the I-5 in my Jeep.  That thing really starts whining when I hit 80.  I was going 90 and people and semi trucks were roaring past me.

Hybrid cars, in a world with gas prices reaching almost 6 US dollars per gallon, and oil prices near the $50 a barrel mark, we have to realise that we are using too much, and need to slow down. A hybrid car is the most economic choice. Who fcares about powerful engines? If you live in a city, you don't need one, you'll be stick in grid lock most of the day. Aside from tax incentives and low cost, a hybrid car would save you THOUSANDS of dollars a year.

quote>

I believe I read an article in Newsweek that said, given the current price of a hybrid car as opposed to a normal car, it would take 10 years to make your investment worth it.

Why do you need a 50' TV, explain without saying it's 'cool and for the experience' and explain why you can't find a good bar/pub or whatever to go to to watch a sporting event there.

quote>

Isn't that the whole point of buying a tv?  Now that you can read the news on the internet, or even watch it in some sites, who needs a tv at all?  And some of us are under the drinking age, so we're not allowed to go to bars/pubs.

[beesbees 1]

70 mph is the speed limit on all motorways in europe... Of course on mainland they say 110 km/h....

[Screwballl 196]

generally most the states in the US has a posted speed limit of 70mph but some states still go higher such as South Dakota has 75 and Montana has within reasonable limits during daytime hours and 75 at night. Within reasonable limits meaning: no speed limit but what your vehicle can do and within safe speeds. you would get a speeding ticket for doing 80 when everyone else is doing 65 or opposite, you would get a ticket for doing 65 when everyone else is doing 80.

[Playa del Carmen 0]

I keep the cruise control on 60 MPH because (or 70 if that's the limit) because they SAY that your car is more fuel efficient at those speeds (if they constant).

[beesbees 1]

Crise control at 60mph? What if you need to drive in a built up area? 30mph the speed limit round here for them... probably more or less the same there too.

[hello_SC4 1]

Er.. bees, on the mainland the speed limits on motorways are anything from 120kmh (74 mph) to unlimited.. depends on the country. Like most countries have 130kmh as the limit (80 mph), but some parts of German motorways have no limit, and Italian motorways with 6 or more lanes (rare stretches) have a limit of 150kmh (93 mph).

 

But most people don't drive that slow on motorways. The average car goes 140kmh (86mph) on the motorway, maybe more if there isn't much traffic..

[davidhogan 1]

i love how everyone justifies speeding cause everyone else is doing it.  i know that i usually drive about 70-73 mph, so when i see people saying nobody drives that slow i know you're just making a bad excuse.  (and i drive about 750 mi/week in southern california.)

 

yeah, there's a lot of people who drive 85-90 mph on the freeways, but there's a lot of people that tailgate, pass on the right, don't yield as slower traffic, drive drunk, etc.  you can't justify everything because other people do it too.

 

and yeah, i drive slow mostly cause i'm cheap.  i like getting 34 mpg.  i get about 27 mpg if i go 85 all the time, 34 if i go 70 all the time.  at $2.49/gal it's not worth speeding.  (that, and my only ticket cost $270 that i couldn't really afford., plus an insurance increase.  i hate san luis obispo.)

 

dave

[Griff 0]

I believe GW may be occuring, but I don't think it'll be nearly as doomsdayer as many of you are talking about. First of all, were likely to see a shift to hydrogen fuel cells in the next 35 years, sure it might screw the Saudi economy, but do we really want to give money to people who are using it against people who don't share thier beliefs in the form of religious secret police and terrorist groups (yes, there are more than likely corrupt radicals in the Saudi royal family).
Second of all, making hygroden fuel cells, even using natural gas to make it, is a lot less polluting than burning 10 gallons of gasoline. Third, the worst possible thing that I can imagine happening with fuel cells (other than having an idiot blow one up with a cherry bomb) is getting unusual mist and rain patterns, and this would only likely happen in cities which are surrounded by high hills or mountains such as L.A. or Mexico City. Lastly, unless of a new mega-corporation comes into being, the best we can do is Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, & Conserve...

[Playa del Carmen 0]

Date: 11/6/2004 5:42:31 PM
Author: beesbees

Crise control at 60mph? What if you need to drive in a built up area? 30mph the speed limit round here for them... probably more or less the same there too.

quote>


I only use CC on open stretches of road/highway 40 MPH or higher (don't think it works below that, kind of defeats the purpose of 30 and 20 MPH if you could use it though). But the majority of my driving is on the highway. I learned how to drive in a Honda Civic. What a crappy little car. You couldn't keep a constant speed with your foot on the pedal, it was always up and down.

[The Evil Octopus Man 25]

Date:11/6/2004 6:27:41 PM
Author:davidhogan

i love how everyone justifies speeding cause everyone else is doing it.  i know that i usually drive about 70-73 mph, so when i see people saying nobody drives that slow i know you're just making a bad excuse.  (and i drive about 750 mi/week in southern california.)

 

yeah, there's a lot of people who drive 85-90 mph on the freeways, but there's a lot of people that tailgate, pass on the right, don't yield as slower traffic, drive drunk, etc.  you can't justify everything because other people do it too.

 

and yeah, i drive slow mostly cause i'm cheap.  i like getting 34 mpg.  i get about 27 mpg if i go 85 all the time, 34 if i go 70 all the time.  at $2.49/gal it's not worth speeding.  (that, and my only ticket cost $270 that i couldn't really afford., plus an insurance increase.  i hate san luis obispo.)

 

dave

quote>

If you are in a small SUV and all the large SUVs and semi trucks are going 90, you are gonna get raped if you go 70.

[Dolfan348488 0]

 

Date:11/5/2004 1:46:44 PM
Author:EAGCE

Date:11/5/2004 11:24:28 AM
Author:beesbees

 

8.2 litres is pathetic. You only need to go, what, 70 mph max. if you stay in the speed limit. You dont need it.

The problem with america: Everyone has to be seen to have it all. Dont care what else happens to anyone or anything else, as long as they look big. Its to make up for lack of size.

quote>

Nobody goes that slow on the highway.  When I'm on I-95, I go about 80-85 mph. Sometimes higher.

quote>

Its not so much that engines that size are useless....its that when you vehicle weighs more than a tank, it takes a lot to get that baby moving.  The bigger SUV's...Surburbans, Escalades, Tahoes, and Excursions, namely, each weigh at least around 5,000 lbs.  Big difference from a...lets say 2,400 lb. Honda Civic with a 2.0 liter engine that will still go faster than the above-mentioned.  If the automotive industry wasent so obsessed with size....

[davidhogan 1]

Date: 11/6/2004 9:44:35 PM
Author: The Evil Octopus Man

If you are in a small SUV and all the large SUVs and semi trucks are going 90, you are gonna get raped if you go 70.

quote>

I drive a 2400 lb Honda Civic, so I know that's just another excuse. If you stay in the rightmost lanes, you're fine. (If you're one of those people who tries going 70 in #1 or #2, well, no wonder you're almost getting hit.)

And Dolfan knows what he's talking about, my 1.8L Civic with it's great gas mileage can outrun almost any SUV I've ever encountered, and it's a lot less likely to roll over. (And, believe it or not, it's even safer in a collision than a Suburban or Explorer, cause, well, quality matters.)

Dave

[vidioman 21]

We were driving down TBX last night (around 9PM) traffic wasn't too bad (4 lanes, about 9 or 10 cars withen 40 metres of us) we were going 120 Km/h in a Hyundai Accent (my grandma hates driving fast, but when she gets going she goes fast) people were still passing us. While going 120Km/h, a truck passed us, it was going around 140k/mh, and police car went after some guy, they were both going near 200k, the speed limit is 100 Km/h, but you usually don't get pulled over unless you're over 130Km/h, unless you're the only one there. Local police went out a few days ago, and caught speeders going over 200Km/h, a guy in Toronto was caught on a motercyle going 250km/h, no mention of SUVs though.

 

120Km/h in a Hyundai Accent on the Thunder Bay XPressway is a very frightning experience. Very frightning. And then we got near the airport, and this plane flew over, it was really low. Freaky. And the transports!! They got at least 150Km/h and it takes them 4 trailer lenghths to stop at that speed. It was crazy. And scary..

[panthersimcity4 162]

Sadly, the melting ice caps won't bring rain, instead giant floods raising the oceans probably as high as the empire state building... if enough of the ice is melted. Have you seen the day after tomorrow? Scary stuff.. and that might just happen.

[The Evil Octopus Man 25]

TDAT is very unrealistic.  It happened way to quickly.

 

I believe it was Al Gore or someone who gave a speech on global warming in New York City during the coldest day in 30 years.

[vidioman 21]

Date:11/7/2004 8:52:22 PM
Author:panthersimcity4

Sadly, the melting ice caps won't bring rain, instead giant floods raising the oceans probably as high as the empire state building... if enough of the ice is melted. Have you seen the day after tomorrow? Scary stuff.. and that might just happen.

quote>

Day After Tomorrow greatly exagerated things. What happened in the movie would take over 400 years, and be less worse. There wouldn't be a bunch of tornados in LA, or ice caps in New York.

[Thalassicus 33]

Gosh, you people sure do speed!

I rarely see traffic here in Texas go more than 5mph over the speed limit (when it can actually move...heh...), in either the city or the country, and I drive through most of north and east Texas, and parts of west Texas, on a regular basis. Then again, people always go 5mph over the limit, it never varies up or down much regardless of the actual speed. Noone ever goes more that that, cops will slap you with a 200-600 dollar fine (doubled in school zones and construction areas), not to mention that you'll be delayed by 10-15 mins and have to show up in court.

The only exception to that is through small towns. Traffic tickets are a great revenue source for towns: if you run a red light in the town of Athens they'll slam you in jail for 8 hours! (and fine you on top of that)


Then again, if it's between 3:00 and 6:00 PM in Dallas, your average speed will be 2 mph. If it's a rare day and there hasn't been an accident, construction, rain, tornados, hail, sleet, ice, or Mexican mariachi bands, you might actually get up to the speed limit. This counts out all the months from September to June, so you're pretty much stuck.

The advantage to this, however, is that hybrids run primarily off the battery when the car is stopped in traffic, so your gas mileage skyrockets! Sara (my cousin) went six weeks without gassing up her Civic, and still had a gallon left in the tank (with a 13-gallon tank). She works about ~7 miles from her apartment down in Addison, it's definitely made me look into buying a hybrid for my next car, especially with all the tax incentives.

[horrorkid64 0]

Some more facts:

 

 

Climate Change Facts

Last update: May 25, 2004

The following are some notable scientific institutions and studies that have found that industrial emissions are causing global warming:

• The governing council of the American Geophysical Union unanimously adopted a resolution in December 2003 stating that human activities are increasingly altering the Earth's climate... scientific evidence strongly indicates that natural influences cannot explain the rapid increase in global near-surface temperatures observed during the second half of the 20th century. See also: American Geophysical Union Takes Strong Stand on Global Warming , Voice of America.

• In 2001, the National Academy of Sciences issued a report called Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions , which states: Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise. Temperatures are, in fact, rising. The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability.

• A group of sixteen national academies of science -- including the top scientific authorities from the United Kingdom, Canada, Germany, Australia, Brazil, Ireland and other countries -- issued a statement (PDF) in March 2001: Despite increasing consensus on the science underpinning predictions of global climate change, doubts have been expressed recently about the need to mitigate the risks posed by global climate change. We do not consider such doubts justified.

• According to the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), it is likely that human activity contributed substantially to the observed warming over the last 50 years.
  (Source: New York Times, October 26, 2000, Scientists Now Acknowledge Role of Humans in Climate Change )

• In 1999, a computer-based study by the University of Maryland and NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center found that there is less than a 0.1 percent chance that observed melting of arctic sea ice over the last 46 years is the result of normal climatic variations.
  (Source: Washington Post, December 3, 1999, Study: Arctic Sea Ice Is Rapidly Dwindling; Global Warming Called Likely Cause )

• A July 2000 Texas A&M study found that human activity is responsible for 75 percent of observed warming since 1900, with the remaining 25 percent caused by natural factors such as fluctuations in solar intensity.
  (Source: New York Times, July 14, 2000, Study Faults Humans for Large Share of Global Warming )

• According to John Houghton, co-chair of the IPCC, no more than ten of at least 3000 international climate scientists reject the idea that greenhouse gas emissions are causing the planet to warm.
  (Source: New Scientist, April 6, 2001, Combined effort )

• Carbon dioxide and methane levels are both well outside the range of natural variation, according to a 1999 study of ice core records dating back 420,000 years by the National Center for Scientific Research in Grenoble, France. Carbon dioxide levels are more than 20 percent higher than during historical peaks (warm periods), and twice as high as during ice ages; methane levels are double their historical peak levels, and about five times higher than during ice ages.
  (Source: Associated Press, June 10, 1999 Scientists: Ice core sample attests to warming climate )

Greenhouse gases

• Greenhouse gases -- such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide -- trap solar energy that would normally be radiated back into space, causing average global temperatures to rise.

• The chief cause of rising global temperatures is carbon dioxide (CO₂) emitted when fossil fuels are burned.

• Greenhouse gases targeted for reduction under the Kyoto Protocol are: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons, and sulfur hexafluoride. The emission targets are not for the specific gases, but rather for a combination of the six gases weighted by the relative effect of each gas.

• Click here for a table with data on the three most important greenhouse gases, including pre-industrial and present concentrations, impact and human sources. Or search the U.N. database by country, gas, source, and year.

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)

• The IPCC, sponsored by the United Nations and the World Meteorological Organization, is a group of 2,500 of the world's preeminent scientists from more than 100 nations.

• The mainstream scientific view -- first expressed in 1995 by the IPCC -- is that the balance of evidence suggests a discernable human influence on global climate. The IPCC's 2001 report states, An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and modeling studies indicate that most of the observed warming at the Earth's surface over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to human activities.
  (Source: IPCC 2001 Synthesis Report )

• According to the IPCC 2001 synthesis report, the greenhouse effect could drive global temperatures up as much as 5.8 C over the period 1990 to 2100 -- an increase in temperature greater than the warming that has occurred since the last ice age.
  (Source: IPCC 2001 Synthesis Report )

• Read the transcript of a statement issued in November 2000 by Dr. Robert Watson, who then chaired the IPCC, on the occasion of an EMS conference call about the science of climate change.

[hello_SC4 1]

Date:11/7/2004 8:56:28 PM
Author:The Evil Octopus Man

TDAT is very unrealistic.  It happened way to quickly.

 

I believe it was Al Gore or someone who gave a speech on global warming in New York City during the coldest day in 30 years.

quote>

Just can't stay out of politics, can you? Please let's not try to mix politics into every possible thread.

[Thalassicus 33]

Unfortunatly, global warming is all about politics. If the government denies it's an issue, you don't have to give economic aid to countries in Africa and southeast Asia, saving hundreds of billions of dollars on the federal budget. If you admit it's an issue and we're causing it, but still don't want to give international aid, then you have to spend money domestically and pass legislation to reduce emissions and increase awareness, which degrades the economy with jobs and industries becoming obsolete or phased out. As far as I know it's currently a lose/lose situation, very wrapped up in politics, and there's no easy solution. It's easiest for politicians to just deny it's a problem at all and pass it on to the next administration.

[vidioman 21]

Date:11/8/2004 12:18:36 PM
Author:Thalassicus

Unfortunatly, global warming is all about politics. If the government denies it's an issue, you don't have to give economic aid to countries in Africa and southeast Asia, saving hundreds of billions of dollars on the federal budget. If you admit it's an issue and we're causing it, but still don't want to give international aid, then you have to spend money domestically and pass legislation to reduce emissions and increase awareness, which degrades the economy with jobs and industries becoming obsolete or phased out. As far as I know it's currently a lose/lose situation, very wrapped up in politics, and there's no easy solution. It's easiest for politicians to just deny it's a problem at all and pass it on to the next administration. 

quote>

Who denies it's a problem and passes it on to the next administration who denies it's a problem and passes it on to the next administration who denies it's a problem and passes it on to the next administration who denies it's a problem and passes it on to the next administration who denies it's a problem and passes it on to the next administration and it just keeps going, and nothing gets done. Then we all die. Or not.

Isn't the government great? They're purpose is to run the country efficiently, we have yet to see one that has! you don't have to get rid of the factory jobs, you just have to develop a better way to control the pollution. Super filtering things or finding safer chemicals to use. The research process there would create jobs, and these jobs that they create are to help keep jobs.

[Ma8thew 77]

Us brits seem to be the only ones concerned with this. How often do you go 'off-road'. Just because you won't be alive doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned. What about your kids and grand-children

[villarule 2]

Date: 11/8/2004 4:05:13 PM
Author: Ma8thew
Us brits seem to be the only ones concerned with this. How often do you go 'off-road'. Just because you won't be alive doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned. What about your kids and grand-children

quote>
its not just us brits, it seems like everyone except the americans are concerned, its worrying that the most powerful nation in the world ignores everyone else

[The Evil Octopus Man 25]

Date:11/8/2004 11:30:31 AM
Author:hello_SC4

Date:11/7/2004 8:56:28 PM
Author:The Evil Octopus Man

TDAT is very unrealistic.  It happened way to quickly.

 

I believe it was Al Gore or someone who gave a speech on global warming in New York City during the coldest day in 30 years.

quote>

Just can't stay out of politics, can you? Please let's not try to mix politics into every possible thread.

quote>

Tell me, because I'm quite curious to know, how does mentioning Al Gore bring up politics?  I thought Al Gore was a person, not a political issue.

[EAGCE 2]

ooh! ooh! ooh!  I just thought of something new!  If global warming causes all the ice to melt, then the US should hurry up and grab Antarctica!

[vidioman 21]

Date:11/9/2004 1:07:11 PM
Author:EAGCE

ooh! ooh! ooh!  I just thought of something new!  If global warming causes all the ice to melt, then the US should hurry up and grab Antarctica!

quote>

They are trying to take the north. The Canadian Armed Forces was up there doing some tests, and caught them. a citizens group from Pikangikum dropped Canadain Flags on them. You'd better thank God we don't have an army. That was a threat to our sovereignty and gives us a pretty valid reason to wage war.

Not that we would

[airmale007 3]

First, I'd just like to clarify that this message contains no political opinions whatsoever and is a direct quote from our school paper:
Saying that Americans don't care about global warming is an ignorant generalization; lots of us here do, and do our part to conserve the environment. Not meaning to get political, but just because our current administration may not be entirely environment-friendly doesn't mean all American citizens are blind to the possibility of global warming.
Actually, i had to edit that quote just a bit... they had misspelled friendly... our school newspaper is about 50% typos.

[Oakenshield 1]

Date: 11/10/2004 5:38:34 PM
Author: airmale007

'Saying that Americans don't care about global warming is an ignorant generalization; lots of us here do, and do our part to conserve the environment. Not meaning to get political, but just because our current administration may not be entirely environment-friendly doesn't mean all American citizens are blind to the possibility of global warming.'

quote>

{SARCASM} Wait a minute! Aren't all 300 Million Americans fat, lazy, and unconcerned with the rest of the world ? {/SARCASM}

On topic, let me rattle something around my feeble little brain.

How long has the planet been around....enduring meteor strikes, supervolcanos, tectonic shifting, magnetic storms, etc. etc.? Depending on your beliefs, ether about 6,000 years, or about 4.5 billion years.

How long have we been tracking meteorological changes? 'Bout 150 years. A small percentage in either case, which leaves a whole heck of a lot that we don't know about the geological and meteorological evolution (and/or creation) of our one little planet.

Kind of like looking at the tip of an iceberg, and trying to determine what lies under the surface of the water, in my estimation.

Now, don't go saying Oakenshield is against Kyoto. He isn't. Massive amounts of CO being released into the atmosphere is definately not a Good Thing, regardless of whether it comes from American SUVs, or from burning dung-piles in India.

All he's saying is we have no idea. About anything. Our toes have been dipped into the infinate seas that are science in general, and in my opinion, we're in absolutely no position to declare an outcome of any sort, given the massively infinitesimal amount of data (in relation to the overall age of the planet) we have accumulated thus far.

Throw all the stats you want at me. None of them are even remotely reflective of what has transpired over the course of this planet's history, humans or no humans.