Issue with installing CAM

[MeMyself&I 379]

1 minute ago, rsc204 said:

I.e. pretty much any file that does not end in either .SC4Lot, .SC4Model, .SC4Desc or .DAT as a file extension.

And .dll too.  Don't delete those, like Buggi's extra cheats if you use it, which everyone should, I think.  I don't think I could ever go back to playing without the terrain query alone, not to mention the other great stuff.

[HORSEY 17]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Yeah, duplicate files will do this. SC4 doesn't just read the SC4 file formats, it will read, index (and where compatible) load every file inside it. So if you have .zip files, .exe installers, or pretty much any non-SC4 file format inside them, SC4 will try to load it, slowing the startup time. Too many of these files can make the game very unstable too. So best to keep the Plugins folder clean of them and keep them elsewhere. This applies to Image files, Document files (readmes etc).

I.e. pretty much any file that does not end in either .SC4Lot, .SC4Model, .SC4Desc or .DAT as a file extension.

This already clarifies what i had already taught myself =) Thanks Rsc. I ll leave you to ponder my PM message a while.. Take your time (Unlike me) lol 

Hmmmm Terrain Query? now youve got me Curious. I need to get the buggi cheats so thanks for the reminder =) Forgot about that since i started re-building my plugins 

[rsc204 21,808]

There are maybe 4-5 .dll files total in existence for SC4, as such, I totally forgot to include them. .DLL files are unique, because they really need to load BEFORE everything else mods wise. As such, they are the exception to the rule and should NOT be placed in the normal Plugins folder inside My Documents. If they are placed such that they load with other plugins, often they will fail to initialise correctly. So unlike everything else, these should be placed into the Root of the install directory's Plugins folder. Which is typically located here:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Plugins

Both Steam and Origin use a different folder, located within the Steam/Origin applications install folder. So for example for Steam that is:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steampapps\common\SimCity 4\Plugins

It will also be different if you have changed the default path. The two .dlls everyone should have are these:

Buggi's Extra Cheats is not really just cheats, it's a series of tools that can help you to get more control and information when playing.

SC4Fix prevents a CTD when hovering Puzzle Pieces over TE lots. Don't worry if that doesn't mean anything to you. Install this fix and simply don't ever worry about the problem.

[HORSEY 17]

Awesome thanks for this. I had seen it but left it alone as i assumed that it was so old that it was included in later updates. one of the human races biggest flaws...Assuming. Just went to do this install aswell and noticed this says to drop it in my documents plugin for the crash fix. Do i Ignore this and put it in the main directory plugins? 

Regards

[MeMyself&I 379]

47 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

.DLL files are unique, because they really need to load BEFORE everything else mods wise. As such, they are the exception to the rule and should NOT be placed in the normal Plugins folder inside My Documents. If they are placed such that they load with other plugins, often they will fail to initialise correctly. So unlike everything else, these should be placed into the Root of the install directory's Plugins folder. Which is typically located here:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Plugins

Both Steam and Origin use a different folder, located within the Steam/Origin applications install folder. So for example for Steam that is:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steampapps\common\SimCity 4\Plugins

Also, if you're using the GOG version of SC4 like I am, the path should be: C:\GOG Games\Plugins

5 minutes ago, HORSEY said:

Just went to do this install aswell and noticed this says to drop it in my documents plugin for the crash fix. Do i Ignore this and put it in the main directory plugins? 

He's right, @rsc204.  The file download does say to install it in the SC4 Plugins folder.  I'm curious now too

[HORSEY 17]

If the read me is correct my geuss would be that it needs to be in plugins because it only affect the transit lots and not the integeral files of the game? Just a wild punt geuss =0

[rsc204 21,808]

Nope, you can put it there, but there is a good reason why you shouldn't...

.DLL file are not like other mods. The game was designed to allow them, but they need to initialise in a very different way. For reliable operation it needs to load before the rest of your plugins files.

Now, if you place it in the root of the regular plugins folder, that SHOULD be the case. But often it isn't. The only way to ensure this loads first, is to place it in the Install directory. If you don't, you will randomly find it doesn't load when starting the game. I've tested this with Buggi's ExtraCheats mod too and many other users have also observed it being unreliable if kept in the User plugins rather than the install one.

[MeMyself&I 379]

6 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

.DLL file are not like other mods. The game was designed to allow them, but they need to initialise in a very different way. For reliable operation it needs to load before the rest of your plugins files. The only way to ensure this is to place it in the Install directory. If you don't, you will randomly find it doesn't load when starting the game.

I've always had mine in the install plugin folder because that's where - I think it was you - told me to put it when I first joined.  SC4 fix was the very first mod I ever downloaded after NAM which I got from dbmods and it's what brought me here.  My game would crash all the time until you pointed me to that file.  It was the help I got from you and others that kept me here.  Seems like so long ago. . . 6 months lol.  Never had a single issue with CTD since though so it definitely works.  I also never noticed that it said to install it into the game plugin either until @HORSEY pointed it out.  

While we're here, what about the single .dat files like day of peace, buildings as props, extra terrain tools, etc?  I have those sitting in the plugins folder just as .dat files and it seems as though they load last because they're not in folders.  Should they be or should they be moved somewhere?  They all work fine but I'm curious about this now after this thread.

[HORSEY 17]

Me too indeed 

I created my own folders for lose DAT files. Unless im told it needs to load after a specific mod or add on i put it pretty much anywhere in my own folder. 

33 minutes ago, MeMyself&I said:

I've always had mine in the install plugin folder because that's where - I think it was you - told me to put it when I first joined.  SC4 fix was the very first mod I ever downloaded after NAM which I got from dbmods and it's what brought me here.  My game would crash all the time until you pointed me to that file.  It was the help I got from you and others that kept me here.  Seems like so long ago. . . 6 months lol.  Never had a single issue with CTD since though so it definitely works.  I also never noticed that it said to install it into the game plugin either until @HORSEY pointed it out.  

While we're here, what about the single .dat files like day of peace, buildings as props, extra terrain tools, etc?  I have those sitting in the plugins folder just as .dat files and it seems as though they load last because they're not in folders.  Should they be or should they be moved somewhere?  They all work fine but I'm curious about this now after this thread.

Im sure this plugin buggis extra cheats was an installer the other week.... Now its just an application extension?? ..

Wait a minuite..this isnt the one you pointed me to the other week before wiping my PC is it? This is EXTRA cheats so theres another file is there not? 

  Edited February 2, 2017 by rsc204  
Please refrain from Double Posting.

[rsc204 21,808]

Load order can be a complex issue, so it's best to separate things into three categories of content.

1. General items like Lots, New Models and dependencies
   Generally speaking there are no special requirements for such files. I would advise to put them into some sort of organised folder system. But try to avoid those folders having prefixes like z, z___ and the like. Just use regular names/words. Otherwise you can risk them causing problems with those mods in point 3.
2. Mods which replace/Override the Maxis content
   Again, these are the same as 1, because anything in your plugins folders will by default load after the Maxis Content. As such, there is no special load order requirements.
3. Mods which override other mods
   Here's the tricky one. So let's say you have a mod that alters something another mod also changes. How do we cope with that? Well I keep a couple of "special use" folders for those, that allows me to easily switch load order as I need. Note the loading order is as shown here, even if Windows orders them differently:
   • zOverrides
   • z___NAM
   • z____MGB Mods
   • z_____Last
     • 1_FolderName
     • 10_FolderName
     • 20_FolderName

zOverrides contains all content that simply overrides other stuff. So texture overrides, model overrides, lot overrides etc. But not overrides of the NAM or certain special-case mods.

z___NAM is a folder installed by the NAM, but it's important in the context of this information, because, almost everyone will have it.

z____MGB Mods is where all my custom mods go. This is the folder I use for my released work also. Note the underscores after the z. There are four, z___NAM has just three. This is VERY important. For each new underscore after the z, the folder will load later. It's like a special character. So if a mod needs to load after the NAM, this is where I put it.

Quote

I.e. any mods that load after the NAM must be in a folder that starts with z___ then O-Z or z____ and any other letter.
That's three or four underscores respectively.

So whilst Rivit's Mods can use the prefix z, three underscores then "RVT Modds", because R still comes after N.  MGB Mods must use four underscores, because M comes before N.

z_____Last has five underscores and contains all content that overrides the overrides of the overrides. Note I've subfolders (names are placeholders), prefixed with a simple number. Obviously 1 loads before 10 and 20 loads later than everything else. So I have a T21 mod which needs to override NAM. But let's say it also needs to override after one of my mods too, that goes in one of these folders. I create them with numbers 10 digits apart, because that way I've space for new ones if needed. If two mods are not playing nice together (the wrong thing is showing). I can just edit the number of the folder to make it load sooner or later, as required. This allows me to balance a number of mods that do similar things together, whilst retain control of which parts of them I get. In an ideal world, you'd remove the bits from each mod you don't need. But if that's too complex, this system works 99% of the time. Of course, there are always cases where you need to modify files to make them work, but usually this is sufficient.

21 hours ago, MeMyself&I said:

While we're here, what about the single .dat files like day of peace, buildings as props, extra terrain tools, etc?

So to answer this directly, I'd make a folder Maxis and stick them in there. But, they are fine in the root folder too. I don't like my root folder to be cluttered, so I try to keep files out of it and in folders. But you may not be bothered about it.

21 hours ago, HORSEY said:

Im sure this plugin buggis extra cheats was an installer the other week.... Now its just an application extension?? ..

It's always been just a .DLL file, this has been around for ages. If you had an installer, perhaps the file wasn't the "official" one.

 

[HORSEY 17]

19 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Load order can be a complex issue...

This is all very much needed information for me, and vital to anybody with a large plugins folder. Thanks alot Rsc, this will help me to structure up things better. I hate it being un-organised and like to keep it tidy. With this info i already now know i have a load order issue with a couple of things. Will certainly help me make my plugins all tidy. I need to get to a stage where everything i have right now works properly before datpacking the folder for the very first time =)

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

I gave up trying to parse my underscore escalation among folders trying to be last to load, so I renamed them all (after finding what order actually works for me). Now all of my plugins subfolders start with my own custom load-order letters. I'm using half the letters of the alphabet, with late-loaders claiming  s-z.

[necroshine123 8]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:54 AM, rsc204 said:

5. Move the newly updated SimCity_1.DAT to it's original location............................

rsc204:

 

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:54 AM, rsc204 said:

Inside the package you downloaded for the CAM is a file that includes the fixes. But it must be "merged" into the original SimCity_1.dat file to work. Using DatPacker just do the following:

1. Create a new Folder in the Root of your Plugins folder, name it "SimCity_1".
2. Move your original SimCity_1.dat file into this folder. Also place the CAM file " z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat" there too.
3. Run DatPacker, tell it to dat pack the folder SimCity_1.
4. When finished, inside a newly created folder, "Plugins Compressed" will be one file, "SimCity_1.DAT" (Note: The name of the file is the same as the folder name we used for DAT Packing).
5. Move the newly updated SimCity_1.DAT to it's original location.???????????????????????
6. Lastly, you'll have to remove the folder we created. You should keep the original "unmodifed" SimCity_1.DAT file, rename the extension from .DAT to .BAK, then it can be safely kept in it's original location in case you need to restore it for some reason.

Which original location can you please tell me mention in your no. 5 step :

1. Outside of the plugin folder which folder name "original SimCity files" 

OR

2. Inside plugin folder - " SimCity_dat" 

both folders also have SimCity_dat. file.

And I appreciate all the help you are giving us through your restless reply.

[rsc204 21,808]

10 hours ago, necroshine123 said:

Which original location can you please tell me mention in your no. 5 step :

1. Outside of the plugin folder which folder name "original SimCity files" 

OR

2. Inside plugin folder - " SimCity_dat" 

both folders also have SimCity_dat. file.

The file SimCity_1.dat comes from the originally installed game files. It will be in the root folder where SC4 has been installed. There should not be duplicates of this file, that could lead to problems. In any case, the proper place for this file is where you found it originally in step 2. If you've forgotten, search your computer for SimCity_2.dat, there are 5 numbered files but this process only updates the first.

The idea here is to move this file into Plugins temporarily, so you can patch it using the DATPacker application, in conjunction with the file that comes with CAM. When you ran DATPacker, it created a duplicate copy of SimCity_1.dat, inside the "Plugins_Compressed" folder. This duplicate includes the fixes inside the z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat file. It is this patched version of SimCity_1.dat, that should be returned to where the original was found.

The original unmodified version would then be inside the Plugins\SimCity_1 folder. In Step6 I mention that you can rename the file from a .dat to a .bak file. This is so you have a backup of the original, just in case you ever need to reverse these changes. But it could equally be placed anywhere SC4 will not see it. I.e. outside of both the installation and Plugins folders for SC4.

[necroshine123 8]

rsc204: Thank you very much for your earlier reply. I am just afraid whether I am misplacing a "SimCity_1.dat" core file with another.

I would like to describe the steps below how I am installing the whole CAM thing, so by that you can directly point out weather I am going wrong or not ( I will try my best to be brief):

1.      After installing a fresh game with fresh NAM, I installed SC4_datpacker with three of its minions I mean the .dll files. And the application opens perfectly.

 2.     I start installing CAM with regular instructions & error –

•         Sc4_datpacker failure to update.

•         And instruction to place the Simcity_1.dat in plugins Simcity_1 folder manually from core installed directory.

After that instruction the installation finishes with saying "the CAM has been installed successfully in your PC" as I continued ignoring the errors because it lets me continue the installation process.

3.  After completion of installation, in the Outside of plugins a folder name “Original SimCity Files” created and inside plugins “a_CAM” folder and the “Simcity_1” folder created automatically, with their usual files inside these folders which are describe below:

•          Original SimCity Files:                                    SimCity Application file & Simcity_1.dat

•           a_CAM:                                                            Usual 2 folders name a_core & core buildings.

•           Simcity_1:                                                        z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat

4.  Now I copy the "Simcity_1.dat" to "Simcity_1 Folder" with existing z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat in the plugins from the core installed directory (which is in my other drive) where four other numbers of .dat file are present.  

5.  Now I start Sc4_datpacker (force repacking option in the packer not checked) and select the “simcity_1.dat” files shown in the list. There’s also a_cam folder in the list in case it matters. The process completes by creating the "plugins_compressed folder” in the plugins folder with new simcity_1.dat file in it.

6.  If i understood correctly you told me to move that newly created "simcity_1.dat" to the core installed directory and hence replacing with existing one there which I moved early to plugins “Simcity_1 folder” for sc4datpacking. (This is the only time I override “Simcity_1.dat” in the whole process or should I???).

7.  After that I remove the folder.

I hope I have rest my case properly to you. I would appreciate your valuable reply on this. I apologize for giving you so much trouble. Also please let me know how I would understand that the CAM is installed properly during the game play in first hand and last but not least when during the process to rename the “Simcity_1.dat” in plugins “simcity_1 folder” to .bak.

 

[rsc204 21,808]

The process you outlined is exactly what you should be doing here.

On 09/02/2019 at 10:12 PM, necroshine123 said:

Also please let me know how I would understand that the CAM is installed properly during the game play in first hand

There is no quick, obvious way of knowing for sure, you kind of have to trust the process. For the most part, simply having the correct files in the a_CAM folder means that the adjustments CAM makes will occur. During play, you should eventually see the difference in how growth and development change.

On 09/02/2019 at 10:12 PM, necroshine123 said:

and last but not least when during the process to rename the “Simcity_1.dat” in plugins “simcity_1 folder” to .bak.

The change to SimCity_1.dat is minor, but very much required for everything to work. In fact, even without CAM, a similar change is required, because the game is broken without it.

Once DATPacker has run, that patch will be inside the file in the Plugins Compressed folder. The original file is in the SimCity_1 folder, you can rename that as soon as you've ran DATPacker successfully. Just remember, you do NOT want this file to remain inside the Plugins folder.

On 09/02/2019 at 10:12 PM, necroshine123 said:

6.  If i understood correctly you told me to move that newly created "simcity_1.dat" to the core installed directory and hence replacing with existing one there which I moved early to plugins “Simcity_1 folder” for sc4datpacking. (This is the only time I override “Simcity_1.dat” in the whole process or should I???).

If that file was originally copied, you would have get a message to overwirte the original when moving the "patched" version back. This is fine and you should overwrite it. Remember the original (your previously made copy), is the one we're renaming to .bak above and keeping somewhere safe. It is identical to the original file, you won't need to keep both.

[necroshine123 8]

Great to have your acknowledgement regarding this, i appreciate that highly.

My last queries:

However instead of renaming Simcity_1.dat to .BAK i just simply moved it from plugins SimCity_1 folder in some other drive, i hope this is what you meant by keeping it safe somewhere else.

Hence the Simcity_1 folder in plugins now only have one file  '"z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat".

Also do i have to retain the folder "Simcity_1" with the file '"z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat" in it - in the plugins????

(Amateur question again but it will clear the fog from my mind permanently as i am about to install huge amount of other plugins later).

 

[rsc204 21,808]

When the file z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat was DATpacked together with the original SimCity_1.dat file, the newly created file is a combination of the two. For some technical reason, unlike most of the contents of SimCity_1.dat, the fixes/changes needed for CAM, will not work by using an override. That's typically how a modder would alter the game's content, but as I said, it doesn't work in this specific case, the changes must be in the original SimCity_1.dat file.

As such, you should not keep this file at all, since it's no longer of use. Although, in theory it shouldn't be possible to mess with anything.

14 minutes ago, necroshine123 said:

ence the Simcity_1 folder in plugins now only have one file  '"z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat".

Also do i have to retain the folder "Simcity_1" with the file '"z_CAM_2.1.0_Stand_Permanent Merge.dat" in it - in the plugins????

Assuming at this stage, all you have installed is the CAM mod itself, the only folder that should remain in Plugins is a_CAM. That and having our specially modified SimCity_1.dat file means CAM has everything needed to work correctly. Had the install worked to completion, all of this cleanup would have been taken care of. I think also if you'd just done it manually to begin with, it would have been less confusing, because the installer did do some steps but not others, hence all the duplicates. Long and short, move everything else or delete it.

8 minutes ago, necroshine123 said:

However instead of renaming Simcity_1.dat to .BAK i just simply moved it from plugins SimCity_1 folder in some other drive, i hope this is what you meant by keeping it safe somewhere else.

Either solution works, since SC4 will not see/load it and potentially mess with the patch. You would only need this file in the event you wanted to revert the changes, in other words remove the CAM mod from your game. Of course this could be accomplished by uninstalling/reinstalling the game, but that's the whole point of keeping the original. Precisely so you wouldn't have to do that to undo the change if so required.

[necroshine123 8]

Thank You rsc204 !!! That's the final Nail in the coffin.

[L2L1 0]

Hey guys so i'm really late to the party - But I've downloaded CAM 2.1 the invischem version. It failed at the sc4 data packer stage (im on windows 10). It asked if I'd like to continue the installation - I pressed yes. It finished up. It seems like the mod is working as intended - I can't see where it's broken yet. So far I have a regional population of 75k before I started seeing medium density. I tried really hard to follow the above conversation about manually unpacking it. But I can't follow this drawn out discussion - So 1st question - Would this mod be working at all if the data packer portion of the installation failed? What am I missing from that portion of the install.

Also - Can someone just clearly and concisely, in one post, or point me to the post where it's explained how manually install this data packer none sense? Correctly*

[Ulisse Wolf 4,412]

3 hours ago, L2L1 said:

Hey guys so i'm really late to the party - But I've downloaded CAM 2.1 the invischem version. It failed at the sc4 data packer stage (im on windows 10). It asked if I'd like to continue the installation - I pressed yes. It finished up. It seems like the mod is working as intended - I can't see where it's broken yet. So far I have a regional population of 75k before I started seeing medium density. I tried really hard to follow the above conversation about manually unpacking it. But I can't follow this drawn out discussion - So 1st question - Would this mod be working at all if the data packer portion of the installation failed? What am I missing from that portion of the install.

Also - Can someone just clearly and concisely, in one post, or point me to the post where it's explained how manually install this data packer none sense? Correctly*

You can't see where it's broken as the system is broken from the base and that's why you have to run IR Fix as it allows you to improve the working statistics but on the regional scale.

There is a guide on how to perform this procedure

https://www.simtropolis.com/library/misc/Solution to CAM Installation Problem Using Windows 10.pdf

or you can use this thing to get SimCity4_1.dat with the patch already included

https://www.moddb.com/mods/ir-fix-from-CAM-vanilla-series/downloads/ir-fix-from-CAM-vanilla-series-windows-version

[L2L1 0]

4 hours ago, Ulisse Wolf said:

You can't see where it's broken as the system is broken from the base and that's why you have to run IR Fix as it allows you to improve the working statistics but on the regional scale.

There is a guide on how to perform this procedure

https://www.simtropolis.com/library/misc/Solution to CAM Installation Problem Using Windows 10.pdf

or you can use this thing to get SimCity4_1.dat with the patch already included

https://www.moddb.com/mods/ir-fix-from-CAM-vanilla-series/downloads/ir-fix-from-CAM-vanilla-series-windows-version

Thank you! Looks like it installed correctly. Only question I had - The guide says after the install, I should have the "Rural Farm Demand Override" dat in my CAM A-Core folder. I didn't see it there, so I copied and pasted it using 7 zip. Is this the correct thing to do? I.e Do I actually need the farm override plug in if the installer didn't put it there?

[Ulisse Wolf 4,412]

6 minutes ago, L2L1 said:

The guide says after the install, I should have the "Rural Farm Demand Override" dat in my CAM A-Core folder. I didn't see it there, so I copied and pasted it using 7 zip. Is this the correct thing to do? I.e Do I actually need the farm override plug in if the installer didn't put it there?

No. That file is specific to Rural Controller only. If you selected another controller then you don't have to use this 

[Sniffeh 121]

No matter what I do, it just won't work. Plus, the read me file is mostly in a foreign language and isn't in the install folder. It only shows up if I uninstall CAM.