SC4 window minimized while saving

[Edvarz 1,984]

Hi Simtropolis!

Yesterday I was playing SC4, and I quicksaved my city by clicking on the little floppy disk in the menu. While the game was saving, i looked away from the computer and Windows tried to start my screen saver for some reason (even though i play in fullscreen mode), I looked back and there was just a black screen stating "Windows couldn't initiate this screen saver". When I moved the mouse, the game's window minimized. (This has also happened while loading the game or a particular city). Clicking back on the game icon, everything seemed normal and the saved appeared to be succesful, but then I went back to region view and it just showed a big patch of land instead of the city I saved. Going back and saving again fixed that problem.

Maybe this question is superfluous, but better safe than sorry. Can this lead to problems like save file corruption? The program kept running and I can play the city just fine, but the region view thing was weird. I backup my regions often, and I don't mind restoring one if I really have to, but I'd prefer not to do it if there is nothing to worry about.

If it's relevant, i'm playing a GOG.com version of the game in a Samsung laptop with Windows 7 (64 bit), a 2.40 GHz Intel core i3 CPU, 4GB of RAM, and a 1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 330M GPU.

[rsc204 21,817]

Can't say why the screen saver came on. But unless you've left the computer a while, that's not normal. You should check the Windows setting for it.

Sadly there are a number of problems that can cause issues with your save files. When saving, it's vital the computer is not doing other tasks. It's also vital that focus is not switched from SC4 too (i.e. SC4 must be the active Window on screen). Failure to do this can cause the save file not to write correctly. In this case, it looks like all it's messed up is the region view image, which is easily solved.

Another of the issues is using the Save and Exit to Region or Save and Quit options. Both of these can go wrong and corrupt your saves. Usually that just causes a CTD every time you exit the city thereafter. It's annoying, but thankfully the cities themselves are not totally dead.

Worst case scenario, you could actual end up with a broken save file for a given city. Although rare, it's possible.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I suggest you change the screen saver interval to something much longer or simply turn it off.  Screen savers becoming active during the game are not a problem, but during a save it activates a known problem that may destroy your city file making it unrecoverable.

If you have a modern monitor (LCD or Plasma) you probably don't need a screen saver.  Screen savers are a tool that were developed to extend the life of CRT monitors by preventing phosphor burnout, which is no longer applicable to current technology.  In my system, if there is no HID input for half an hour, the power saver turns off the screen, gracefully.  A screen saver takes the focus away from the current task which can be fatal during an SC4 save.

If you don't do one, I suggest at least a weekly backup of (at least) your SC4 user folder (C:\<your account>\Documents\SimCity 4).  Recovery points are always necessary in case of a hardware/software failure.

[rsc204 21,817]

12 minutes ago, A Nonny Moose said:

If you have a modern monitor (LCD or Plasma) you probably don't need a screen saver.  Screen savers are a tool that were developed to extend the life of CRT monitors by preventing phosphor burnout, which is no longer applicable to current technology.

So the most part that's right, but it does depend on your monitor. For example my IPS monitors from ASUS are quite capable of screen burn. As is my Plasma TV which is connected to the PC. So perhaps check the user documention

[Edvarz 1,984]

Thanks for the replies, It looks like everything's fine then, but i'll be more careful in the future, I'll also try to look around my computer to see why Windows insists on triggering the sreen saver when SC4 is loading and saving. I had the screen saver set to activate within 1 minute of inactivity, for some reason, I changed it to 5 minutes now, that should be enough time for the game to load and save without the screen saver barging in.

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Another of the issues is using the Save and Exit to Region or Save and Quit options. Both of these can go wrong and corrupt your saves. Usually that just causes a CTD every time you exit the city thereafter. It's annoying, but thankfully the cities themselves are not totally dead

I almost never use the Save and Quit feature for this very same reason, one time I did and when I came back to the game my city was completely gone and the terrain reverted to the state it was before I started the city, although this may have had to do with the fact that I was playing with one of the default tutorial tiles on the Timbuktu region.

1 hour ago, A Nonny Moose said:

If you don't do one, I suggest at least a weekly backup of (at least) your SC4 user folder (C:\<your account>\Documents\SimCity 4).  Recovery points are always necessary in case of a hardware/software failure.

I actually do monthly  (sort of) backups of both my Plugins folder and my most used Regions, from what I've seen, the rest of that directory only has the albums (which really wouldn't be painful to lose) and readmes, but maybe all those BSC readmes are worthy of backup too.

 

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I have rather a lot of disk space (1.6TB ++) and do an incremental backup weekly every Thursday at midnight.  My system is up 24/7 barring power fails, and this usually happens when the system is "suspended".  I come from an era where disk space cost the earth and came in hyper-small quanta.  The fact is that I picked up a free-standing 1 TB drive for around $200, divided up into 200 GB partitions and use it as my backup device and other things as needed.  It is linked to my on-line system and for all intents and purposes appears to be on-line all the time.  One of the nicer things you can do with the Linux file system (gvfs) since there is no such nonsense as a "drive letter".  It is all one big tree structure.

Some of my disk space is off-line most of the time.  This is the drive that I use for manual backups.  It is nevertheless, connected over a USB port, and when it comes on line is joins the tree.

[Edvarz 1,984]

My parents are both computer engineers, so I'm not entirely on the dark about computers, I can understand how to take care of one and how to avoid ruining it, and I think it has worked since I'm up to my 5th year with my trusted laptop. I have the default 500 GB HDD drive with one partition, my C: unit is about to be entirely full, and my D: unit is virtually empty, also I am long overdue for a general backup. You can thank university for that lack of time, which is kind of pradoxical because, should I experience a major failure, all my materials, essays and thesis files are gone for good! Somehow it never crossed my mind that I could upload such backup to a cloud service!

Once I'm on vacation though, I plan to restore my computer completely to get rid of lots of files and leftover things from programs that I have installed and uninstalled, then I'll send my laptop to get a major hardware check up. And later I even plan on building my own rig, (that'll come when I start getting a decent pay ). As it happens, I am planning to use Linux on that, instead of updating to that shiney piece of spyware thay call Windows 10 (neat as it may be). Right now I am not knowledgeable enough to be freed of MS's paternalistic claws, but I've taken baby steps like disabling UAC, or manually checking the state of my drivers, or getting to know more about open source software. So anyway, sorry for derailing this topic, but It'd have been rude not to answer to an interesting reply.

[rsc204 21,817]

I'm not sure my poor drives being constrained to a letter ever bothered me. Probably just a consistency holdover from the days of DOS, when typing C:\ made a lot of sense if you think about it.

As for backups, that's a big deal. A lifetime of telling people their precious data is now toast allows me to really understand the problem. Of course, I'm a total hypocrite, I know I should, I just never seem to get round to backing up files often enough. I did once have to pay about £500 for drive recovery to get my data back, and that's peanuts for this sort of thing. I keep a RAID system ever since. Think of it as a photocopy of one drive, on another. As soon as a file is modified in any way, that modification is copied. If one drive fails, the other comes up in it's place. Slight issue is that this doubles the price of any storage, since now you need 2 drives for the space of 1. Also, if I mess up the files, rather than a failure, the backup will have those same messed up files. So, add a third drive for redundancy. Next thing you know, a 4TB upgrade comes in at over 500€ for 3x 4TB drives to hold 4TB of space. Not cheap, but when I do bother to backup, it's a very secure system.

However, for those less inclined with these things, and not totally strapped for cash, I can thourghly recommend a WD My Passport drive, or similar model which comes bundled with their automatic backup software. Just set it once, then just plug the drive in, it will automatically backup the selected files for you. It's so simple, for the money it could prove a lifesaver.

I used to work in insurance, one of the hardest things about a total loss, things like fire. Often the customer had lost all those things you really care about you can't replace. Photos, Videos and important documents. In the digital world we entrust more and more of our lives to computers and storing that data on a hard disk. Sadly, as disks rose above 500GB, their reliability took a nose dive. If, like me, you've your life's photo collection, home videos and more personal data that really matters. Don't leave it to chance, have at least one backup somewhere. The cloud is all well and good, but if for reasons beyond your control, on the day something went wrong, you could no longer access the service you signed up to. For example bankruptcy or a failure in their own equipment, you'll regret entrusting your data to one source. Just as if you use a HDD, but drop it on the way to restoring your data you will. The point is, however annoying or expensive it works out, data redundancy is important, assuming your data is.

[matias93 7,535]

Returning to the initial theme: I've been careless enough times to note a pattern in kinds of bad saves of the game. This particular type is fairly innocuous: the game seems to be consistently capable of saving the city changes without corruption, but as the city image in the region view is essentialy an screenshot, not having the focus impedes it to get one, so is replaced by bare terrain (even with vanilla texture). You can check that the saving was done by clicking the city tile: if just the image is missed, the label will show you the city name and all the stats, and not a bare 'New City' text. I must admit that that is the part when the micro heart attack ends, knowing that months of work are not lost forever.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

One further word about backups and paranoia.  I am about as paranoid as it gets when it comes to data loss.  I have absolutely no trust in the "clouds".  These things are controlled by others who have other agendas besides storing your data.  The only service I use is imgur because I have found it to be a reliable method of getting images onto the net.  Pretty much all of them are backed up on my system, which gets backed up every week in the regular course of events. 

I don't store very much stuff on line or off line.  Currently my total disk usage on-line is 21.4 GB out of the current 250GB partition for personal stuff only.  My entire system occupies 31.5 GB out of 1.250 TB currently available (there are a couple of partitions not included in this O/S control tables).  One 300 GB drive is off-line.  It is my second level secure backup.

For people wondering about Linux, this is all from the tool Disk Usage Analyzer which takes only a few seconds to scan the space and report.  If you want a report partition by partition there are a couple of other tools available as well.

[HawkDawg 12]

On the subject of backups, I have 2 internal hard drives and 2 external USB drives (all 500 GB or less Western Digital). I use a small utility called Karen's Replicator that runs in the background nightly and backs up files and folders I've selected from the primary internal drive to the secondary internal drive (the secondary internal drive is nothing but storage).

Once a week I plug in one of the external drives and again, using Karen's Replicator, I back up the secondary internal drive. When that's done I unplug it and plug in the other external drive and using a bootable cd version of Mini Tool Partition Wizard, I make an exact backup copy of the primary internal drive.

Both external drives are unconnected from the computer and power source when not in use. So far I've only had to reinstate the data back from the copied primary external drive once, and that was due to an abysmally failed uninstall of an A/V app.

I also have my primary internal drive partitioned into 6 partitions, for organization purposes only. One of those partitions is nothing but empty space, which I can use to resize (larger or smaller) any of the other partitions using Mini Tool Partition Wizard, should the need arise.

I do not use a cloud service back up.

I built this computer about 8 years ago and have only had to replace a video card once. I do try to reinstall the operating system every year or two but I think that idea is no longer an option since I still run XP and I don't think I can get the security patches anymore.

I am starting to expect a hardware failure some time soon, since this stuff is becoming so long n the tooth. Should that happen I guess I'll just use this box as a door stop and go off-line from the Internet, since I can't afford to replace any hardware now; living on Social Security. But at my age, and with my health, I wouldn't have to do without a computer long.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Buck up, lad.  We are in the same boat.  Sent you a PM with more details.

[CorinaMarie 29,621]

On 4/3/2016 at 8:23 PM, HawkDawg said:

I do try to reinstall the operating system every year or two but I think that idea is no longer an option since I still run XP and I don't think I can get the security patches anymore.

For my safety net, I installed XP, the patches, did registry tweaks and got the base install all working as I wanted. Then I used my old Norton's Ghost program and made image files. I burned those, along with a copy of the Ghost EXE to removable media. I store the most recent one in my fire resistant box as well as a copy at my dad's house.

When the eventual hard drive failure occurs, I have this to start from without having to remember any details of how I set it up the first time. It's also significantly faster to get back to the basic, ready-to-go bootable drive. Once I'm back up and running on a new drive, I pull in my latest Karen's copy of my data.

[HawkDawg 12]

Hey! Another user of Karen's Replicator.

The back up I have on one of my external drives is an exact bootable copy of my primary drive, but it is a copy of my drive - as is. I guess, in case of fire, I would have to remember to grab it on the way out as I don't have any off site storage, although I guess I could make a copy and keep it in my safe deposit box.

I've been chatting with A Nonny Moose in private about Ubuntu so I'm thinking of giving that a try.

[rsc204 21,817]

Whilst no new patches exist for XP, the old ones should still be available to download. Also, MS release proper installers (no internet required) for the main SP3 fix, so you would at least get SP3 back for sure if you needed to reinstall.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of using Linux if you are a long-term Windows user. If you are not proficient with computers, I would advise highly against it. There is a reason most of the world doesn't use Linux, despite a general feeling of hatred towards MS. And that reason is not because Linux is really easy to work with, especially when something goes wrong.

[HawkDawg 12]

I have run Ubuntu before, and liked it. My problem was back when I ran it, there wasn't a really good way to run the games I like. I believe Wine was still in it's infancy, or at least not up to the task. I understand it does a lot better now.

I didn't have any real problems running Linux, but I never did dig too deep into it. I guess getting familiar with the command line structure (I think that's what I mean  ) would be the biggest task.

[CorinaMarie 29,621]

With regard to the XP Patches, they were up as recently ago as 4 or 5 months ago (definitely after the official expiration of support) when I was last there. I do know you need more than service pack 1 for your XP install to be able to have it go thru the updates semiautomatically. Might be one needs to have sp3 installed. That feels right memorywise, but not guaranteed. I have the packs on disc, so I was already at 3 from streamlining before I got the updates. I made one ghost image with all the recommended stuff and then another image after getting every update suggested. This gives me two options without the need to have internet access when I bring the computer to life.

My only experience with Linux was LinxMint v12 ish. I managed to get Wine going and my D2 game with all its patches going in a window. Full screen wasn't something I figured out. It also had one annoying feature. First, what I needed was for alt key and mouse hold and movement to do what my game expected whereas Linux had a feature that one could move windows lacking a title bar by the same combination. Linux intercepted my input and was too annoying to continue with. The nice peeps in the chat room said it could be disabled, but with a bit of work which included recompiling the something or other. Kernel, perhaps. I went back to Windoze.

It does seem to me that MS's past with windows was every other version was pretty decent. Like 3.11 was good, 98, XP, and then 7. I've not kept up after that. (I did try the win8 beta, but didn't care for it at all.)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

As an outside observer (I quit at XP SP3), it seems MS has somehow lost its way.  Starting with Vista (a beta? for 7) they got a bad case of bloat.  I guess they really are stuck with NTFS.  However if they could find a way to offer gvfs (GNU virtual file system) it can handle NTFS partitions quite well.  Their most crying need is to get a newer method of handling files.  And restricting the registry to keep application users out of it would have been a good thing, but it is too late now.  I find I don't mind the little configuration files that result if you don't have a registry, but then small files in NTFS are a PITA.  With gvfs it doesn't much matter.

I've kind of lost track of how they handle virtual memory, but as I remember it they don't carry executables around preformatted for paging.  Slows things down.  They need to adopt ELF format for executable texts.  Many others have, and it is a de facto standard for operating software including Linux.  After being produced by a compiler, they also ought to be able to save a paged version (Operations Unit) either on  demand or on first load of a text.  They should also forget the idea of using a file for backing store and go to using a partition.  It doesn't have to be huge.  Mine just happens to be 20 GB because I had that much left over on my main disk.  Nice not to have to worry about running short.

[HawkDawg 12]

7 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

With regard to the XP Patches, they were up as recently ago as 4 or 5 months ago (definitely after the official expiration of support) when I was last there. I do know you need more than service pack 1 for your XP install to be able to have it go thru the updates semiautomatically. Might be one needs to have sp3 installed. That feels right memorywise, but not guaranteed. I have the packs on disc, so I was already at 3 from streamlining before I got the updates. I made one ghost image with all the recommended stuff and then another image after getting every update suggested. This gives me two options without the need to have internet access when I bring the computer to life.

 

It does seem to me that MS's past with windows was every other version was pretty decent. Like 3.11 was good, 98, XP, and then 7. I've not kept up after that. (I did try the win8 beta, but didn't care for it at all.)

I have SP3 so that's not an issue. I think I'm going to dig out an old hard drive and install XP from scratch and see if I can still get the necessary security patches.

I agree with you. Every other OS was the better version, in the order you mentioned, although I think that tradition went out the window (pardon the pun ) with Win 10.

I have run all the OS's, starting with Win 3.1 - up to Win 7 (with the exception of Win 2000 and Vista) and I'm of the opinion that we are paying MS to beta test new OS's.

[CorinaMarie 29,621]

3 hours ago, HawkDawg said:

... I'm of the opinion that we are paying MS to beta test new OS's.

I've formed a similar opinion, at least for win 10. I read a piece by a major computer magazine / website in which the author had gone thru every possible setting and turned off every option related to the OS reporting back to home base. Then via a packet sniffer or some such, found it was still chatting with MS like hundreds of times per hour. When questioned, MS confirmed that was true as well as intentional. (No, I don't recall who wrote it. Tho it's been in the past couple of months so if your google-fu is good, you could prolly find it if you wanted to.)

[HawkDawg 12]

I've read quite a few articles about Win 10. Most not complimentary, at least in regards to privacy concerns.

I don't use Google for anything, for the same reasons. Nor do I visit Facebook or any other social sites.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Don't worry about Google.  They are quite open and honest about their intentions, which is more than you can say about the Microsofts of this world.  I use Google as my home page (a hacked around version by Ubuntu) and haven't had a moment's problem.  My main objection to Google is they want to be in the general application business.  This step into diversity may make corporate sense, but it puts them in the same class as the other "trade secret software" bunch.  I use only the search engine.

[HawkDawg 12]

5 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Don't worry about Google.  They are quite open and honest about their intentions, which is more than you can say about the Microsofts of this world.  I use Google as my home page (a hacked around version by Ubuntu) and haven't had a moment's problem.  My main objection to Google is they want to be in the general application business.  This step into diversity may make corporate sense, but it puts them in the same class as the other "trade secret software" bunch.  I use only the search engine.

Microsoft only wishes they could collect as much data about you as Google does. Google knows more about everyone than the US government does. And just like Facebook, Google is well known to violate their own privacy policies. They share everything they collect about you across all their various platforms. They even scan all email that goes through their servers.

I just wish I didn't have to deal with folks that use Gmail, but - unfortunately I do with my website.

[NCGAIO 562]

Today telemetry is not a problem only for win10 but for all  updated system.;7, 8, 8.1

remember Mintel motto - "if  depends on us you will never be alone .. we are always giving a peek at you"

For those who bought without reading i advise a peek in the section -
" Updates to the Services or Software, and Changes to These Terms "

in the link below.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/
 
  It is not the solution to all the leaks and is subject to some problems but for anyone who is concerned can be interesting.

https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

There is only one real solution to the laity ... disconnect!

in time:

SC4'll be always running in a window on DWM no matter what you choose... full screen only see borderless

 

 

 

 

[HawkDawg 12]

Ya' know folks. Me thinks this thread got just a wee bit off topic.