Building Architect Tool, 3d Max & 3ds Files

[daderic888 216]

Hi,

I've been trying to import 3ds models of buildings that I wish to make for Simcity 4 Deluxe into the Building Architect Tool. These 3ds files have been successfully converted from dae files.

I don't know why, but it has failed to import the 3ds files.

Am I using an old version of Building Architect Tool and/or 3ds Max? If so, is there an updated version that I need to download and install? I suspect that his may be the case as I have seen Youtubes of tutorials.

I need some very helpful tips and advice as I want to make these buildings and upload them to the STEX and use them in my Simcity 4 Deluxe game.

Thanks in advance.

[rsc204 21,869]

Hard to say what the problem is, does it provide an error, can you explain what is going on otherwise?

There is no newer version of gMax/SC4BAT, so you are stuck with that.

3DS Max, the commercial big brother of gMax is still seeing a release every year. That can natively open 3DS max files, but requires either a very expensive commercial licence, or a student licence (free) to use it. You can use 3DS max, in conjunction with some scripts, BAT4Max to make models for SC4 in 3DS max.

As for the files, if you are converting from different file types, you need to be aware if the specific versions of each program are compatible or not. Usually time does not bode well for compatibility in this regard.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

This may not work at all, but have you tried reading your files into gmax?

[daderic888 216]

Thanks roc204 & A Nonny Moose

When I select the .3ds file from my USB, the only error message that displays says "Inproper File Format".

I haven't tried reading the files into GMAX. How do I do this please?

I don't know what else to do.

 

 

[rsc204 21,869]

gMax is SC4 BAT, they are the same. Only SC4 BAT adds some scripts allowing you to use gMax (think re-skin) to create SC4 models. So if you tried in SC4 BAT, you were trying in gMax.

I need to know the original file format, the dae files, what was the source of this file? Also which version of that application created it. It may open in 3DS max with more success, but you can't easily make such a model work with gMax. Armed with this information at least we can look up if others have managed to covert them successfully.

[daderic888 216]

Thanks rsc204 for the info.

The source from where I downloaded and saved most of the .dae files is from 3D Warehouse. I used another website to convert the files from .dae to .3ds. Off hand I can't remember which website it was, however I bookmarked it on my netbook and I'll let you know which one it was when I get back to my netbook.

Would the upper case ".3DS" make a difference as opposed to selecting the file with ".3ds"?

[rsc204 21,869]

I would look at the conversion process really. The website that converted the DAE fie to 3DS, were they options you could select from? Perhaps there is a need to use a specific setting to make the files more compatible with older versions/standards of 3DS max? Otherwise I think you may nee o have 3DS max in order to use these.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

@rsc204

FYI *.dae: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COLLADA

[daderic888 216]

Thanks guys.

rsc204: Yes there were options and I chose to convert them to .3ds format.

A Nonny Moose: Thanks for the link.

Question: Would using an old version of Blender (say version 2.37) to create the buildings and exporting them in .3ds format to GMAX work?

I still haven't had the chance to check on my netbook what website I used to convert the files yet. My first chance will be on Monday Australia time.

[daderic888 216]

Or would using Blender Version 2.37 to import and do my stuff with the .3ds models, then exporting them to GMAX work?

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

You can but try.  If you ask your machine, it will say yea or nay.

[daderic888 216]

Question guys:

Would BAT4MAX 5 make the difference to GMAX / SC4 BAT for importing the .3ds files and for doing my stuff? If so, how and where would I install the .mzp file please?

I haven't got around to Blender 2.37 at this stage.

I'll let you know which website I used to convert the .dae files to .3ds files tomorrow.

[daderic888 216]

And what about the SC4Update4BAT? Would that make a difference to GMAX / SC4 BAT for importing the .3ds files and for doing my stuff?

[rsc204 21,869]

The fundamental incompatibility rests with gMax, the underlying application that has to interpret the file you are trying to open. So no changes made to SC4 BAT that I know of would have any effect on this.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

11 hours ago, daderic888 said:

And what about the SC4Update4BAT? Would that make a difference to GMAX / SC4 BAT for importing the .3ds files and for doing my stuff?

This patch will take your game to build level 240 (if you are not already at 241).  It is the patch than enables own-code night light textures to show in the game.  Without it, no user night lights.  Patch not needed unless you are loading from the CD set.

[daderic888 216]

Ok thanks guys.

How about BAT4MAX 5?

[daderic888 216]

rsc204: The website that converted the files is called: "Online 3D Converter" where it uploads the selected .dae file ready for conversion. Then you select ".3ds" as the format then it converts the file.

I'm wondering about BAT4MAX 5, whether that's any good?

[Odainsaker 2,137]

BAT4MAX is just the custom plugin package to add the SimCity BAT gamepack script tools into 3ds Max.  It should not affect the ability to import files into Gmax.

Are you using a version of 3ds Max, or are you using Gmax?  I'm thinking you are using Gmax, which should not be confused with 3ds Max.

Gmax is the stripped-down variant of an early version of 3ds Max that was made freely available sixteen years ago for use with gamepacks like Maxis's BAT, but it has certain deliberate restrictions on its memory and available tools, including importing and rendering, so as not to compete at the time with the full-featured, money-making 3ds Max software.  Though Gmax has a native importer for *.3ds files, Gmax is still an old program that is no longer supported and it may or may not be compatible with more recent versions of the file type.  It is possible to find custom scripts online that will expand Gmax's range of import options:  here and here are both old troubleshooter options, but they seem promising in offering custom import scripts for *.3ds and *.obj for those even then ten years ago having problems with the native Gmax importer.  Naturally, file conversion and importing between differing platforms from different eras into a watered-down and discontinued program is going to be messy, and even a successful attempt may require heavy model cleanup afterwards.

Because 3ds Max is more robust than Gmax, players have awesomely reverse-engineered the Maxis BAT gamepack for Gmax into the BAT4MAX gamepack for use with commercial 3ds Max.  There are several versions of BAT4MAX out there tweaking options and compatibilities with each newer version of 3ds Max, but all of them will still require Gmax as well for the brief final process of importing custom models into SimCity.

 

[daderic888 216]

Hi Odainsaker

Yep I'm using GMAX.

Thanks for this.

GMAX seems VERY limited in what can be done.

Would it be worth finding this old version of 3DS Max and trying to install it? If so, which version is it?

I will click on the first link you supplied to get the scripts that are needed.

Thanks also rsc204 and A Nonny Moose too.

I'll keep you's updated.

:-)

[Odainsaker 2,137]

Hopefully it will work.  If not, maybe the *.obj importer scripts will allow you to go that route using *.obj conversion.

Great things can and have been made with Gmax, and it is astounding that it was given to us freely to customize our games, but it is an old and buggy program where learning the limited program's workarounds are added on top of learning 3d modeling.  If you have an opportunity to upgrade to 3ds Max, go for it.  It is an expensive program with a hefty learning curve, so I wouldn't recommend purchasing it if your only intention is casual SimCity model making.  However, if 3d graphics is your hobby or field, 3ds Max is a standard program you should have in your toolbox.  A free educational license is available for the latest versions of 3ds Max from Autodesk and is definitely recommended on this site by many BAT4MAX users.

 

[daderic888 216]

Yep thanks Odainsaker.

I clicked on the first link and I have downloaded 'import3ds.zip" and "importobj.zip" so hopefully they will work. I'll let you know how it works out tomorrow or Wednesday Australia time.

However, in the first link, I clicked on the other two links; 

http://www.btinternet.com/~cjcookson/gmax/ results in an error message saying "server hangup".

http://gmax.digitalarenas.com/ appears as though the connection failed.

I'm wondering if you know of any other links / resources for scripts for GMAX?

 

[daderic888 216]

Unfortunately the 3ds Importer script didn't work. I will try to convert the .dae files to .obj files.

I converted a .dae file to .obj file using meshconvert.com, but it did not import the .obj file. An error message says:

"--Runtime error: Invalid setTVFace vertex index: [0,0,0]

Then in the x y z views, there's a body of a female. (???)

Any other tips, links, etc please?

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

Either the program you picked up is malware or your file was corrupted at a later time.

I think you may have to accept the ancient and medieval gmax/BAT combination, and do your own models.  If you feel strong enough to use 3DS Max you shouldn't have any problems with gmax.  It always feels better when you stop banging your head against a wall.

Oh, and by the way, do you have copyright permission to convert those images?

[rsc204 21,869]

I doubt it's malware or corruption. Where did you get the information gMax will open Object files? The options for importing are 3DS and PRJ (3DS max project files), AutoCAD files and 3D Studio files. Sure the options "all formats" and "all files" exist here, but it extremely unlikely file types not specified would actually work.

I'm guessing it can pick up enough to render some of the objects in the file, but certain parts it can't read.

Think of conflicting file types like languages. So if your file is German, but the application only "speaks" English, it is going to have a very difficult time understanding the data. That's the problem here, DAE files are not natively supported by gMax. That's not a fault of gMax necessarily, for example that format may not have existed when gMax was made. The tool that converts (translates) the file needs to be capable of outputting in a format for your specific needs. Whilst 3DS files are fairly standard (for 3DS max/autodesk), newer features of later editions can not be supported when opening files in previous versions. This is always the way, try to open an old file in a new application, usually you will get some success or find a solution. But the other way around, that's difficult. I doubt those creating the online conversion tool had gMax in their sights when making it. Therefore without a more modern version, you are out of luck.

It occurs to me that you might be able to get Bender to import the file. But to render the model for SC4, at some point the model must be opened in either gMax (SC4 BAT) or 3DS Max. So perhaps bender can export the file in a format gMax can understand? But that's unlikely, since the issue is some feature that's not compatible. If you knew what that was and turned it off, or remade those affected parts of the model without using said feature, that could resolve the issue. Frankly all very complex stuff I'm afraid.

The bottom line, if you want to make models for SC4, then you have to work with SC4 BAT or 3DS max, therefore you may find your options limited.

[daderic888 216]

Thanks for that guys.

I'm thinking of using an old version of Blender (say up to and including Version 2.37, I'm more likely to use Version 2.26). I was thinking the same thing, making the buildings that I wish to in an updated version of anything are not likely to succeed very well in GMAX as the latest version is the 2005 version before Autodesk's 3DSMax started charging like wounded bulls.

Yep, I'm going to have to start from scratch to build the buildings that I want to upload to Simtropolis and use them in the game and also to show them in City Journals. Are there any issues with old versions of Blender? Also, are there any custom scripts for the old versions of Blender that you know of? I've seen a number of tutorials on GMAX and I'm about to watch some tutorials on Blender. Are there any PDF tutorials on the old versions of Blender that you know of? If so, where can I find them. 

Regarding copyright, there wasn't anything about copyright when I downloaded and converted the files.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

Blender tends to produce very application specific files.  Why do you like beating your head against the wall?  You could probably have remade the models you need using gmax by now.

[rsc204 21,869]

Yes, seconded, use SC4 Bat (gMax) or 3DS max, anything else is more hassle than need be. The only reason I brought up blender is because perhaps it might help convert the existing files.

I know of no script support for an other 3D modelling application. All SC4 models simply must go through 3DS max and/or SC4 Bat one way or another.

[daderic888 216]

Ok thanks for all this rsc204, A Nonny Moose & Odainsaker.

I'm checking out the GMAX tutorials on YouTube to refer to.

I downloaded a couple of scripts that I need and they're in GMAX now.

While I'm checking out the Youtubes, in the meantime, are there any other scripts for GMAX, like 'bevel' and 'extrude' and texture/rendering for example, that you know of?

:-)

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

You'll want to be careful here.  Fancy textures and other polygon features that are possible even in gmax may not render properly with the BAT renderer. 

The BAT converts 3D models into 20 orthographic projections in five sizes from four points of view, and that's it.  Not much point in doing a lot of fancy 3D work that will either be compressed or lost.

Remember that SC4 does a very good job of faking 3D, but lacks a free camera, and only has four POV from the cardinal compass points.  The sixth zoom was added for UDI, but is not in the BAT.  Zoom 5 renderings tend to pixelate at zoom 6 unless they are HD.

The main reason attempts at making a successor to SC4 in 3D fail is that the Maxis developers at that time realized that a simulation of this magnitude could not be rendered in 3D with the large city tiles with existing hardware.  According to some research I have done, this still cannot be done, and attempts to do so have uniformly been unsatisfactory.  With the 64-bit addressing bandwidth we have now, but without a lot more CPU speed (not possible with current technology), this will continue to elude everyone.  We are at the hardware limit, which is why SC2015 was such a bust with respect to city sizes, and C:S is not living up to expectations.

Not only are we at the end of the hardware ability, but the simulation was doomed from the start to get into serious lag because the response curve for the simulation is a hyperbola.  When the number of objects processed by the simulation is large enough, the need for CPU cycles to process one pass of the simulation loop tends to infinity.  It doesn't matter, then, how good you are at multi-tasking either even if you have six or eight cores.  A hypercube might be able to do this if the program were rewritten to run on one (128+ CPUs) or one of the very large main frames might do the job once you got over a million objects.  Graphics frame rate would still be lousy.

And by objects here, I mean everything that may have to be updated in the simulation including flora as well as fauna.  Not only are clouds, waves, shadows and smoke expensive of computer cycles, but seasonal trees, or even trees that have growth/death cycles count.

[daderic888 216]

A Nonny Moose:

Ah ok. thanks. So it's best to use GMAX as it is without any additional/custom scripts?

From what you're saying, adding custom scripts will do more harm than good.