(possible) Demand Cap Problems

[Pasta-power 7]

Alright, so I've recently started playing SC4D after many years. I reinstalled the game, got the patches and NAM, yadayadayada and now both of the two cities in my region seem to have hit a roadblock.

 

I also have some minor, but tricky problems with commute times and building abandonment, but i'll most likely save that for another thread. I'm not sure if you're actually allowed to edit a threads title and topic of discussion to condense content into the same thread or not.

 

The Demand Cap (Stagnation)

 

Alright so, i'm not 100% sure if this is ACTUALLY a demand cap i've run into here, but i'm fairly certain. This problem seems to be occuring in both cities, San Clerancio, which is the biggest city, and Sundeskia, the smaller one.

 

Here are a couple of pictures demonstrating whats happening with San Clerancio:

 

 

 

 

As you can see, while the residential sector is doing fine with plenty of high-rises, the commercial sector is mostly still medium-density buildings, yet its zoned as high-density. The problem here is that both are not replacing any buildings with higher-density ones, especially the commercial district, hence why I think this is a demand cap issue.

 

Whats quite odd about this though, is you can clearly see that I have an airport, a neighboring city (see beginning of post), and a hefty number of neighbor connections. Despite all this, I'm not getting further development, which is why i'm not 100% sure if this truly is a problem with demand caps.

 

Anyways, on to Sundeskia!

 

 

 

Sundeskia is the neighboring city to San Clerancio, and was built partially to help relieve the demand cap for San Clerancio and feed demand to and from San Clerancio. While Sundeskia doesn't have many problems developing higher-density buildings over previous ones, you may have noticed something in one of the pictures. Yup, that one residential zone has been sitting there for many in-game years, but hasn't sprouted a single building. I don't think this is a demand cap issue, or at least less so, but it's still a problem.

 

Here is the whole region map by the way, just so you folks can see the big picture:

 

 

So theres my problem with the demand cap, hopefully you guys can come up with a solution.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

First of all you should get rid of those annoying UDI balloons unless you really play the missions.  They can be turned off from the F3 menu.

 

I am not sure you have been demand capped.  What you may have is that you are simply out of balance.  The game algorithms want a few simple things, one of which is a general balance between the various wealth classes.  The first demand chart seems to indicate that you have over zoned the $$$ classes for commercial and residential.  The second one is saying something is amiss with your industrial.

 

From the screen shots, it looks like you laid down your road grid before you started playing.  I've found over some 12 years of playing that this is a bad idea.  I pick a spot on the city tile to start from and grow from there without predefined road layouts.  I let my cities grow like Topsy (from Gone With The Wind), they "'jes' grow".  The general maximum for R$$$ Sims is around 15% of the total.  You mustn't lose track of the fact that high executives need a lot of staff to make the thing work.  A symphony orchestra has only one conductor, but it has section leaders as well as ordinary players.  Somebody has to push wind through the tuba.

 

The other thing is that the demographic model in use expects a married couple with kids and a single income.  This amounts to a simple relationship Sims:Jobs::2:1.

 

If you really have demand caps, there are come cap busters built into the game.  Parks and graveyards help to break R caps, plazas, stadiums and the air port break C caps.  The game wants recreational and green space facilities not four square Km. of concrete.

 

Take a look at the rules I've mentioned and see if you've violated one or more of them.

[Pasta-power 7]

First of all you should get rid of those annoying UDI balloons unless you really play the missions.  They can be turned off from the F3 menu.

 

I am not sure you have been demand capped.  What you may have is that you are simply out of balance.  The game algorithms want a few simple things, one of which is a general balance between the various wealth classes.  The first demand chart seems to indicate that you have over zoned the $$$ classes for commercial and residential.  The second one is saying something is amiss with your industrial.

 

From the screen shots, it looks like you laid down your road grid before you started playing.  I've found over some 12 years of playing that this is a bad idea.  I pick a spot on the city tile to start from and grow from there without predefined road layouts.  I let my cities grow like Topsy (from Gone With The Wind), they "'jes' grow".  The general maximum for R$$$ Sims is around 15% of the total.  You mustn't lose track of the fact that high executives need a lot of staff to make the thing work.  A symphony orchestra has only one conductor, but it has section leaders as well as ordinary players.  Somebody has to push wind through the tuba.

 

The other thing is that the demographic model in use expects a married couple with kids and a single income.  This amounts to a simple relationship Sims:Jobs::2:1.

 

If you really have demand caps, there are come cap busters built into the game.  Parks and graveyards help to break R caps, plazas, stadiums and the air port break C caps.  The game wants recreational and green space facilities not four square Km. of concrete.

 

Take a look at the rules I've mentioned and see if you've violated one or more of them.

 

Take a look at these two sets of graphs, the unchecked boxes for the jobs graphs represent jobs that there is none of. I am well aware of the 2:1 rule.

 

San Clerancio graphs:

 

 

 

Sundeskia graphs:

 

 

 

Note how the position of all the jobs on the graph is roughly half that of the residents, although they might total much more than that, considering there are more types of jobs than residents. I also noticed upon uploading to imgur that CO$$$ is higher on the graph than even the middle class (most populous resident type). I have been roughly keeping to the 2:1 rule, and i'm also aware of the whole "few executives, army of receptionists, bunch of janitors" thing. Thats why most residents are middle class, a bit less are poor, and a minority are rich (how it works irl). You should know that you can't actually zone for wealth.

 

I also have the rich residents taxed slightly more than everyone else (about 10%) to even out the wealth distribution.

 

The reason my industrial demand is wonky is because I have IM and ID taxed at 20%, my industry is almost entirely High-Tech. Why have the middle and lower class working at dirty, planet-killing factories when you can have them work at 100% clean, state-of-the-art facilities along with the rich instead?

 

Despute my road networks following an identical pattern, it isn't all laid out from the start, I expand as I go. Highways are an exception though, If I already have a highway connection, then I lay it down at the start. Mass transit is built as needed.

 

San Clerancio has LOADS of recreation! If you take a close look at one of the screenies, you'll find I've spammed large parks in the HT district to reduce pollution and retain HT desirability. Sundeskia has a couple parks, but not too much, since its only a relatively small city. I also have large plazas in both cities' industrial districts to ramp up HT desirability. Furthermore, in San Clerancio, both stadiums are surrounded by open paved areas for an aesthetic quality, as I did for the city hall in one of the cities.

 

Oh, and despite having LOADS of CO$$$ jobs in San Clerancio, some mansions are dilapiated and becoming $$ or $. It shouldn't be commute time, because the road and transit network's in that city have almost zero congestion, and work near flawlessly for commuting long distances across town.

[Prophet42 1,500]

Keep in mind that your 'neigbhor connections' to the undeveloped city tiles only count as connections to SimNation.  Connections to SimNation have limited demand cap relief, which is not as much as if it was an actual established neighbhor.  A SimNation connection only provides a limited amount of Demand Cap relief for Commercial Office Sims and allows industry to complete a freight trip. 

 

In your region, basically each of your cities has only one neighbor.  With the size of your population and only one neighbor connection, your commerical is most likely close to stagnating.

 

My suggestion to you is establish more neighboring cities and connect them using a least one each of road, highway and rail.  This will maximize your Demand Cap Relief and even out your demand.

[Pasta-power 7]

Keep in mind that your 'neigbhor connections' to the undeveloped city tiles only count as connections to SimNation.  Connections to SimNation have limited demand cap relief, which is not as much as if it was an actual established neighbhor.  A SimNation connection only provides a limited amount of Demand Cap relief for Commercial Office Sims and allows industry to complete a freight trip. 

 

In your region, basically each of your cities has only one neighbor.  With the size of your population and only one neighbor connection, your commerical is most likely close to stagnating.

 

My suggestion to you is establish more neighboring cities and connect them using a least one each of road, highway and rail.  This will maximize your Demand Cap Relief and even out your demand.

 

Yes, creating more neighbor cities is generally what I had in mind, I guess cities with 80k+ population really need a lot of neighbor support lol. Do neighbor connections to SimNation convert to city connections when you develop the tile it's connected to, or do they stay the same and have to be replaced?

 

I would like to develop Sundeskia more before I create more neighboring cities to San Clerancio though, which brings up another problem... Sundeskia has some issues with houses becoming dilapidated to lower wealth levels, as well as offices. Whats odd is that high wealth offices are becoming medium-wealth presumably due to a lack of rich workers, yet the mansions are the same. Both have somewhat positive demand, and ramping up desirability doesn't seem to be working. You would assume that one of them would stop being dilapidated due to workers/jobs becoming available... San Clerancio also has this problem I believe, but it's much less severe. Any ideas on how to fix this before I create more neighbors?

[Lennson 7]

Commercial not increasing in density doesn't look like a demand cap problem. High wealth offices can't be replaced by larger Medium wealth offices, which appears to be the situation.

 

Zoning not growing can happen due to the simulation running really slow when a tile is full. Often the best solution is to plant temporary trees on the lot or put small parks with trees near by. This causes a temporary desirability spike that often will trigger growth.

 

You probably have too little low income residential, which could be stalling commercial demand causing abandonment. Even in a purely commercial city I find that low income residential should be equal to medium income residential.

When the high wealth commercial abandons due to lack of low income workers the high income workers will be out of a job and the excess high and medium income residential will abandon.

 

High wealth offices still need lots of low income workers.

[Prophet42 1,500]

 

Keep in mind that your 'neigbhor connections' to the undeveloped city tiles only count as connections to SimNation.  Connections to SimNation have limited demand cap relief, which is not as much as if it was an actual established neighbhor.  A SimNation connection only provides a limited amount of Demand Cap relief for Commercial Office Sims and allows industry to complete a freight trip. 

 

In your region, basically each of your cities has only one neighbor.  With the size of your population and only one neighbor connection, your commerical is most likely close to stagnating.

 

My suggestion to you is establish more neighboring cities and connect them using a least one each of road, highway and rail.  This will maximize your Demand Cap Relief and even out your demand.

 

Yes, creating more neighbor cities is generally what I had in mind, I guess cities with 80k+ population really need a lot of neighbor support lol. Do neighbor connections to SimNation convert to city connections when you develop the tile it's connected to, or do they stay the same and have to be replaced?

 

I would like to develop Sundeskia more before I create more neighboring cities to San Clerancio though, which brings up another problem... Sundeskia has some issues with houses becoming dilapidated to lower wealth levels, as well as offices. Whats odd is that high wealth offices are becoming medium-wealth presumably due to a lack of rich workers, yet the mansions are the same. Both have somewhat positive demand, and ramping up desirability doesn't seem to be working. You would assume that one of them would stop being dilapidated due to workers/jobs becoming available... San Clerancio also has this problem I believe, but it's much less severe. Any ideas on how to fix this before I create more neighbors?

 

Once you establish a city, any previous connections you've made to it convert from SimNation connections to neighbor connections.  You do not need to replace them.

 

For your delapidation issue, I would use the route query to see who is actually commuting to your commercial buildings.  Wealthy Sims are very sensitive to commute time (due to distance and/or congestion).  You can use the route query to determine if any R$$$ Sims are actually able to get to your C$$$ buildings.  If they are not they will downgrade.  R$$ and R$ Sims can tolerate longer commute times and/or are more prone to use public transportation.  If your R$$$ are having reachind your C$$$ buildings you may have to 'mix it up' more.  Don't zone large blocks of one zone type.  Mix the residential and commercial zones next to each other.

[Pasta-power 7]

Commercial not increasing in density doesn't look like a demand cap problem. High wealth offices can't be replaced by larger Medium wealth offices, which appears to be the situation.

 

Zoning not growing can happen due to the simulation running really slow when a tile is full. Often the best solution is to plant temporary trees on the lot or put small parks with trees near by. This causes a temporary desirability spike that often will trigger growth.

 

You probably have too little low income residential, which could be stalling commercial demand causing abandonment. Even in a purely commercial city I find that low income residential should be equal to medium income residential.

When the high wealth commercial abandons due to lack of low income workers the high income workers will be out of a job and the excess high and medium income residential will abandon.

 

High wealth offices still need lots of low income workers.

 

Wait, so is it the lower class that comprises most of a SimCity's workforce, or the middle class? Also, how exactly does building replacement work?

 

 

For your delapidation issue, I would use the route query to see who is actually commuting to your commercial buildings.  Wealthy Sims are very sensitive to commute time (due to distance and/or congestion).  You can use the route query to determine if any R$$$ Sims are actually able to get to your C$$$ buildings.  If they are not they will downgrade.  R$$ and R$ Sims can tolerate longer commute times and/or are more prone to use public transportation.  If your R$$$ are having reachind your C$$$ buildings you may have to 'mix it up' more.  Don't zone large blocks of one zone type.  Mix the residential and commercial zones next to each other.

 

 

Thanks, ill try that and see if it works.

  Edited April 19, 2015 by Pasta-power  

[Prophet42 1,500]

The majority of your working class depends on you Education Quotient.  If you have low EQ, then most of your work force will only be able to do low tech jobs which will increase demand on I-D and C$.  If you educate your Sims then they can peform higher tech job.  As your EQ increases then your work force will shift to mostly R$$ sims.  This will increase demand for I-HT, I-M, C$$ and C$$$.

[Pasta-power 7]

The majority of your working class depends on you Education Quotient.  If you have low EQ, then most of your work force will only be able to do low tech jobs which will increase demand on I-D and C$.  If you educate your Sims then they can peform higher tech job.  As your EQ increases then your work force will shift to mostly R$$ sims.  This will increase demand for I-HT, I-M, C$$ and C$$$.

 

Yes, but higher wealth jobs don't all accept $$ or $$$ sims, and I'm pretty sure jobs like CO$$$ need at least 40% or so of poor sims. Sundeskia's current EQ is about 130 btw, my demand for $ sims is maxed out, and demand for $$ sims is ever-so-slightly lower. But i'm getting mostly $$ development it would seem.

[cogeo 960]

First off, CO caps can be easily raised by building more road/avenue/highway/rail connections, of which you already have enough - and you have an airport too - so I don't tnink you have a cap problem. Several rewards, like the Convention Centre raise the CO caps too. Not sure about parks and (esp) plazas (they certainly boost desirability, but I'm not sure about caps) Anyways, there are some mods you can install so as to check your caps (and not only) status:

 

-

- (or the original Census Repository Buildings)

 

I think the problem is the 10% tax rate for your R$$$ sims. This definitely affects R$$$ demand negatively (that's why it's down) and this results in less R$$$ development, which in turn affects CO$$$ (and CS$$$) demand too. You can't really do much with taxes in SC4, if they are even just slightly above the "neutral" rate they greatly reduce demand. You can only set some tax rates high so as to keep certain development types from taking place (eg "tax the ID sector out"). Maybe set the CO$$ and CO$$$ taxes lower by some 1%, to help trigger demand (they are considered the growth "drivers"), but that's just what you can do. All other taxes (except the ones you want to tax-out) should rather be set to the neutral rate. And one note, the suggested "neutral" rate shown in the CR dialog is a calculated value, based on the city's R population only. Maybe it should have included the C+I population too, but I'm not sure. Too bad, there is a game-supplied value in the SC4 scripts, but the CR does not use it, instead it makes its own calculations. Considered fixing it in the past, but never found the time, and I have unisntalled SC4+Tools since,,,

 

However, there are certain other reasons that may keep high(er)-density C and R buildings from growing, even if you do have the demand, which are:

- Lack of properly sized lots and fragmentation. Really high-density lots are 2x3, 3x3, 4x3 and 4x4. You need to somehow control lot sizes and formation by zoning properly, zoning larger lots (eg 2x3 or 3x3) from the start, marking/unmarking historical, even bulldozing certain lots if you have fragmentation. Please note that a bulding/lot may only be upgraded to higher growth stage or higher wealth level. So, if you have a 1x3 boutique (CS$$$) and a 2x3 small office (CO$$ or CO$$$) just next, these are never going to be aggregated, to form a 3x3 CO$$$ hi-rise, even if your CO$$$ demand is nailed to the top. The boutique has already reached the max wealth level, and may only be upgraded to higher growth-stage CS$$$.

- Local desirabilty problems. It's not just about crime, garbage and pollution, $$ and $$$ buildings, even high(er)-density $ buldings, need a fairly high desirabilty level to grow. R needs education, health, low traffic noise and some parks or trees nearby. C needs high traffic (="Customers"), and would like some plazas (or buildings with some "Landmark Effect" eg landmarks or certain civic buildings) nearby (check their radiuses - duh, you rather need to use the reader for this). All types want low crime and pollution.

 

I'm afraid your all-grid layout doesn't help very much. Traffic flows through R zones too (equals more noise and pollution there), and I'm not sure about your C areas either. Too many roads and alternatives, which possibly diffuses and partitions, rather than concentrates traffic. I also see almost no (if at all) parks and plazas. An alternative could be an "arterial" layout (low capacity networks leading to high-capacity ones, no through traffic allowed at the low-capacity part). Take a look at my posts and (sorry, the posts are old, imageshack have changed their policy since, so you have to dl the images). As you can see, R is organized in "cells", served by a local (dead-end) street, which leads to a road, which in turn leads to an avenue, which gets all the traffic (as sims are forced to get there to commute to their workplaces), which creates favourable conditions for commercial development there. Instead the residential end is quiet. There are also 1-tile-wide stripes of space left between the cells, to be filled with small parks or trees. Well, all this repetitiveness may look ugly, but this city is an example of how much "controlled" or "arranged" development can be.

 

There are other factors that may affect commercial demand. For example, why snub all that R$$ and R$ demand? Turn it to development instead. CO$$ and CO$$$ employ a lot of R$$ and R$ workers as well. And why also snub CS$ and CS$$ demand ? I would say try to satisfy them too. They are better than I-D industry anyway, as they don't pollute, don't need much power, they can be placed IN the city, and even be replaced by CO or CS$$$ later on, and they don't need much space either. High-densiry CS$ actually employs about half the number of the workers hi-rise CO$$$ would employ in the same space. See those buildings in my city (just behind the college).

 

I also see you have enough I-HT development. Are you sure they actually employ R$$$ sims? Have you

 

And beware about "double" networks (like avenues). They can result in unreachable jobs (for example, buildings on avenues connecting to the city border, beyond the last intersecting road - remember, each one of the two avenue sections is uni-directional). Make sure your sims can both get there and return home. Take a look

 

Hope this helps

[Prophet42 1,500]

Here is a workforce demand chart that you may find useful.  This will tell you what each developer type demands for which residential type

 

Developer type    R$          R$$      R$$$

CS$                     100%      0%        0%

CS$$                   68%        27%      5%

CS$$$                 62%        30%      8%

CO$$                  40%        50%      10%

CO$$$                20%        65%      15%

IA                        100%      0%         0%

ID                        100%      0%         0%

IM                        50%        45%      5%

IH                         10%       80%       10%

 

If you use the IH mod then the residential developer type demand will be slightly different.

 

As you can see, if most of your developement is CO$$$ and IH, R$ demand will drop off quit a bit.  In praticality, though, even with a highly educated Sim population, your demand for R$ sims should remain fairly high.  Unfortunately, the game is pre-disposed to develop $$$ so sometimes it can be hard to keep the balance.

[cogeo 960]

As you can see, if most of your developement is CO$$$ and IH, R$ demand will drop off quit a bit.  In praticality, though, even with a highly educated Sim population, your demand for R$ sims should remain fairly high.  Unfortunately, the game is pre-disposed to develop $$$ so sometimes it can be hard to keep the balance.

 

Sorry, but I don't quite agree here. R$ demand will drop because of the lack of jobs, not because of the lower percentage of low-paid jobs in high-wealth buildings. It's the players who don't want R$, CS$$ (and particularly) CS$ and any industrial (other than I-HT), not the game mechanics. They simply don't zone for R$, CS$$ and CS$, and they ignore any high demand for these deevlopment types. Which is wrong, because R$ are too needed for high-wealth offices and industry, and because the amount of demand (and finally growth) for CO is limited by the population. EQ may continue rising, demand for CO will be increasing for some time, but they will both reach a plateau at some point - when EQ reaches the max, and when all highly-educated sims get good jobs. Then CO demand will flat-out. This is called STAGNATION! And it's not due to demand caps, lol. What is needed is a fresh load of workers. Newcomers  are by default uneducated, but you can employ them at CS$/$$, and provide them with good education. After some few sim-years they will be educated, and demand for CO high up again, so new CO growth will be possible. I always try to satisfy all R and C demand (even for the poor R$ and CS$) before zoning for more industrial. And you actually don't need that at all. You can zone for more industrial if you are just impatient, or you simply want some industry in the region or city. I have experimented a lot (in the past - I do not longer play SC4) with regions without industry or farms, and it is perfectly possible to build big cities with only R and C (and the needed civics, of course), provided that you satisfy all R and C demand. The growth cycle is Higher EQ -> CO demand/growth/jobs -> R demand/growth -> CS demandgrowth/jobs -> R demand/growth. At this point all demand types would have been flattened, and the (average) EQ fallen (because of the newcomers), but the city will have grown bigger. And as you have full educational coverage (even for R$), if you simply "run" the city of some little time, EQ will soon start rising again, initiating the above cycle again. I have experienced this, in a region with no industry at all (ignoring even the bulging I-HT demand), and growth is about 50% over 5 sim-years, without any sign of stagnation, not even of slowdown.

 

And the game isn't really "pre-disposed to develop $$$", again it's the players who do this. If you try to satisfy all R and C demand (again, leaving industry out), half (or more) of your workforce will be R$ (if you do the math you will agree). Yes, high-wealth buildings can displace lower-wealth ones, but then you have high demand for the (missing) low-wealth building and you can get new development, if you zone. But players often don't, instead they are just happy for "getting rid" of the low-wealth employer, snub the high demand and complain about not having enough CO demand then. It's just normal that they don't, it was simply 'satisfied" (turned to development). Only some additional highly-educated workforce could make it rise again, and this can only be obtained by educating your sims, it cannot be "imported".

[Pasta-power 7]

-Giant wall of text-

 

Well, I prefer not to play with mods very much, which is why I only have the NAM and TSCT installed. San Clerancio actually has just about every building, as far as demand cap relief goes. It has both stadiums (with open paved areas spammed around them), the convention centre, radio station, (possibly) the TV studio, an airport and maybe a few other buildings. So cap buster buildings is out of the question.

 

I have my rich sims taxed at around 10% (may have been reduced by now) so that they stay a minority in the workforce and don't become unemployed.

 

Take a look at the tax chart for San Clerancio and Sundeskia, note that San Clerancio is the main problem, and Sundeskia doesn't really seem to have demand cap issues:

 

San Clerancio's taxes:

 

 

Sundeskia's taxes and demand:

 

 

 

In case you were wondering, I had in fact reduced the taxes for the upper class in both cities since the OP. Strangely enough, despite Sundeskia having 0% tax on the rich Sims, and reduced tax on CO$$$, the demand remains negative. All taxes in both cities are pretty much either neutral (9%) or lower, except for the unwanted ones like ID and IM.

 

Zone fragmentation sounds like a great idea, so I will experiment with that and see if it works, although San Clerancio's downtown core seems to have proper commercial fragmentation.

 

Desirability shouldn't be a problem, as on the data views map, both cities will show nearly entirely green in all categories. In query, there's usually one or two desirability factors that aren't ideal though at least in Sundeskia. Very small sections of residential (in Sundeskia) don't have school and/or health coverage, but the location itself remains overall desirable. My residents are also exposed to high traffic volume, but from my past experience with SC4, that barely affects larger cities with access to most services. There are crime hotspots throughout both cities that appear in very specific buildings and jump from place to place constantly, but crime is generally under control. If you want, I could post a picture.

 

The grid layout seems to work fine for me, and is efficient enough, and I'm not changing it (way too much work), but I'll experiment more with future cities and try using a non-repetitive road network, though I'm not using yours, practicality over aesthetics isn't my thing in this game. The problem I have the most, is that roads seem to clog with very large cities, so I'm forced to rely on avenues as the main roads, but I'll see what I can do.

 

The problem with that "snubbed" demand is that it is so obscenely large that it is pretty much impossible to satisfy at this point, and the fact that lesser-demanded buildings will develop instead of higher-demanded ones, middle-class residents over lower-class in this case. Due to my cities' perfect desirability, and awkward demand, it's becoming challenging for me to control what wealth of a given zone type develops in any location.

 

I'm pretty tired today and the installation looks complicated, so maybe I will install the fix later. Yes, I've known avenues are uni-directional for a long time, but they don't seem to be a problem anywhere other than at the edge of a city.

 

 

Developer type    R$          R$$      R$$$

CS$                     100%      0%        0%

CS$$                   68%        27%      5%

CS$$$                 62%        30%      8%

CO$$                  40%        50%      10%

CO$$$                20%        65%      15%

IA                        100%      0%         0%

ID                        100%      0%         0%

IM                        50%        45%      5%

IH                         10%       80%       10%

 

If you use the IH mod then the residential developer type demand will be slightly different.

 

As you can see, if most of your developement is CO$$$ and IH, R$ demand will drop off quit a bit.  In praticality, though, even with a highly educated Sim population, your demand for R$ sims should remain fairly high.  Unfortunately, the game is pre-disposed to develop $$$ so sometimes it can be hard to keep the balance.

 

Yes, I have read that chart before elsewhere on Simtropolis, hence the residential wealth distribution in my cities. Most of my job development in both cities is generally lots of CO $$-$$$, mostly (I think) CS$$-$$$, and some I-HT in the corner of town with very little I-M in areas undesirable to I-HT.

 

Jeez, this reply was tiring to write... Not to be rude or anything, but would you guys mind condensing your replies more?

 

 

As you can see, if most of your developement is CO$$$ and IH, R$ demand will drop off quit a bit.  In praticality, though, even with a highly educated Sim population, your demand for R$ sims should remain fairly high.  Unfortunately, the game is pre-disposed to develop $$$ so sometimes it can be hard to keep the balance.

 

Sorry, but I don't quite agree here. R$ demand will drop because of the lack of jobs, not because of the lower percentage of low-paid jobs in high-wealth buildings. It's the players who don't want R$, CS$$ (and particularly) CS$ and any industrial (other than I-HT), not the game mechanics. They simply don't zone for R$, CS$$ and CS$, and they ignore any high demand for these deevlopment types.

 

You do realize you can't zone for wealth right? Only density.

 

EDIT: Wait wait what? CS $$ and CO$$ employ upper-class sims? What the heck? Maybe that explains my lack of CO$$$ demand... I'm starting to get the feeling it has to do with my EQ being too low...

  Edited April 19, 2015 by Pasta-power  

[Lennson 7]

Side note: You can sort of zone for wealth since only certain building grow on certain lot sizes.

 

This is mostly important for and works for low wealth.

 

With only original buildings a 2x4 (2 road front) high density lot can only grow to be high density low wealth.

I've used this a lot to build dedicated low wealth tower blocks by spacing out the zoning with small parks in between.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

With all the skewing of your taxes, you are just asking for trouble.  It seems you are trying for an all $$$ city.  The game isn't programmed to allow that, but wants a general balance.  As a result you are really fighting a losing battle.  Remember what Pyrrhus said to his generals "One more victory like that over the Romans, and we are undone."

 

I never set a tax rate below 6%.

[Pasta-power 7]

With all the skewing of your taxes, you are just asking for trouble.  It seems you are trying for an all $$$ city.  The game isn't programmed to allow that, but wants a general balance.  As a result you are really fighting a losing battle.  Remember what Pyrrhus said to his generals "One more victory like that over the Romans, and we are undone."

 

I never set a tax rate below 6%.

 

The only reason my upper-class residential tax rate is so low, is due to R$$$ demand not wanting to stay positive. I've read on the omnibus that negative demand should be "avoided like the plague". Before, my lowered tax rates were about 2-3% or higher, but because my demand chart is being so stubborn with R$$$ and CO$$$, this is sort of a desperate move on my part.

 

I am not, nor have I ever gone for a city with only one wealth type, and most likely never will.

 

You are probably thinking that I should just educate my sims better or something instead of just not taxing the rich, but I have a set of priorities in this order:

 

1: Do complete overhaul of the zones in Sundeskia. One of the earlier posters said that I should have a bunch of small areas of multiple zone types, instead of a couple large ones.

 

2: Demolish any education/health buildings, and move them to the new residential districts

 

3: (Attempt to) fix any dilapidation that has occurred in the overhaul process.

 

4: Fix remaining issues with Sundeskia.

 

5: Develop Sundeskia until it's population peaks.

 

6: Found new cities, develop them and then make neighbor connections to pop San Clerancio's current demand cap and Sundeskia's future demand cap.

 

So yeah, this is gonna take a while.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In your second point, you probably should replace education institutions with museums and parks.  Use the population by age display and make sure that recreational facilities are available to blue areas.

[His Divine Hand 244]

It should be noted that demand caps being hit would manifest itself as as a zero demand, as demand caps do reflect on the demand chart.  Likely your problem:

 

 

 

As you can see, while the residential sector is doing fine with plenty of high-rises, the commercial sector is mostly still medium-density buildings, yet its zoned as high-density. The problem here is that both are not replacing any buildings with higher-density ones, especially the commercial district, hence why I think this is a demand cap issue.

 

 

is a growth stage limit problem.  Each lot is set a growth stage number (1-8 for res and com, 1-3 for ind) and the amount of buildings of higher stages that will grow is based on a percentage of total buildings in your connected region.  That means that you cannot have a city full of stage 8 skyscrapers without the correct percentage of lower staged buildings elsewhere in the region.