Looks like the Crown has been passed....

[Mystrelia 57]

Thanks for your reply, Turjan! I'll hold out as long as I can before I put a cargo depot there and maybe something will show up in the meantime, or if I get ambitious enough I'll try to make one.

 

I'm still working on my original city and had the thought in mind today that I'd work more on the farming district. I did a little of that then the first thing I knew I had about 10% unemployment rate (not sure where that came from, possibly the backlash over revamping the university system so it can't take all the potential students), so since I had a bit of old farm ground left in an area I got the bright idea to change the zoning and let them all convert to generic industry to absorb some of the labor pool. Well, the first thing I know people are sick and dying EVERYWHERE in my city! I had recently added a new sewage treatment plant so checked that and it wasn't the problem. Finally I reloaded to my last save just before everything went sour and found it was the water tower I'd put near the farms. The generic industries were polluting it and giving my Cims the plague!

 

I know a lot of people will read that and go "been there, done that" but this is definitely something a person doesn't have to deal with like that in any SimCity game.

 

One thing I do know is that even if nothing was ever added to it aside from player-created mods this game is well worth the price I paid for it, although I do look forward to what CO has up their sleeves in the future.

[Marc Collins 36]

I'm convinced the drop-off in player numbers is real. I know many people who played the game (different community) and have moved on to something else by now. The very lively discussion has stopped. Most of them said something like that they had seen everything there is to be seen in this game, find it a bit bare bones and repetitive. Some of them said they may look at it again if there's more content and better usability in the future.

 

If everything you do ends up looking the same, there's not much use in doing it over and over. There are several questionable design decisions that even reduce the diversity the game comes with out of the box: resources that last 15 minutes, specialized industry and low-density commercial where nobody wants to work, monuments that make whole gameplay elements obsolete (power, education, health) and/or level everything up indiscriminately (Eden). Did anyone manage to keep level 1 housing? If I place a fire station (not doing that makes the game annoyingly tedious) I get an immediate level-up. Even minor things, like making cemeteries obsolete (can't you convert them into some park for urn storage or something like that? Have a crematory on-site?) removes elements from the game. It would go a long way if the game wouldn't homogenize its own appearance the way it works.

 

That said, I've put lots of hours into the game, so this has definitely been a very worthy buy for me. However, it's still very visible that this was done by someone who made traffic simulations before that, as this part is lots of fun, despite all the warts concerning moronic lane use and emergency vehicle behavior (if a house burns down because the fire truck waits for ages in the right lane of an otherwise completely empty 6-lane one-way road it gets bizarre). Building train lines is fun. Having everything look the same in the end, not so much.

 

+1

See and this is the problem I think that people were expecting something like SC4 is now..  The issue is that it took the tireless work of the community over 12 years to get SC4 to a point where everyone liked it..  When SC4 first came out is was a barebones game and took Rush Hour and some industrious modders to spice things up more..

 

The thing is we will see what happens over the years, as C:SL is just over a month or so old, heck I still love it finding the nuances of the game and what new mods come out for it one awesome one being a UI framework mod and different types of UI design plugins..

 

No, it didn't take 12 years.  The fundamentals that made SC4 worth modding in the first place were all there after Rush Hour.  Some of the fundamentals that could see C:SL be more than a flash in the pan are missing...but luckily can be added if CO is willing and able to spend enough effort to do so.  We'll see in the coming months.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

 

That does not mean the game is failing.

 

Not sure how you got the idea anyone implied this. This is not an MMO. Saleswise, it has been a success already.

 

I was reacting to posts like your first sentences

 

I'm convinced the drop-off in player numbers is real. I know many people who played the game (different community) and have moved on to something else by now. The very lively discussion has stopped. Most of them said something like that they had seen everything there is to be seen in this game, find it a bit bare bones and repetitive. Some of them said they may look at it again if there's more content and better usability in the future.

Sorry if I came off too strong. Not saying you in particular but the attitude of the players you're talking about in general. Maybe the text in bold struck a cord with me and I over reacted a little. I can't expect all players to feel the same as the niche crowd and get bent out of shape. I'm cool now. Back to my enjoyment.

 

BTW, I don't believe in sales being a measure of a good product. The value is always personal.

[Agente Silva 28]

I´m so enjoying reading the evolution of opinion about C:SL... Just mind not to quote my early posts as I am a personna non gratta!

 

Be well,

[Turjan 1,048]

Sorry if I came off too strong. Not saying you in particular but the attitude of the players you're talking about in general. Maybe the text in bold struck a cord with me and I over reacted a little. I can't expect all players to feel the same as the niche crowd and get bent out of shape. I'm cool now. Back to my enjoyment.

 

BTW, I don't believe in sales being a measure of a good product. The value is always personal.

 

No problem. As I said, I like the game. I spent 269 hours with it so far, so no complaints from my side. It has a solid foundation. It just needs a few changes to give it true longevity. There's no hurry.

 

Regarding sales as measure of good product, that wasn't implied. I guess we meant different things regarding "failure".

[Xenocity 343]

Wait Simcity 4 fans actually switching sides??

 

If that's true, then I guess they weren't real fans to begin with.

 

The one true thing Cities: Skylines will have that Simcity 4 didn't will be paid mods (yes you can do that on Steam now). 

[Azurespecter 506]

The one true thing Cities: Skylines will have that Simcity 4 didn't will be paid mods (yes you can do that on Steam now). 

 

Let's not make claims like this without sources =) just misinformation.

[aable 63]

Wait Simcity 4 fans actually switching sides??

 

If that's true, then I guess they weren't real fans to begin with.

 

 

 

 

You cannot claim to be a real fan/true fan and then support a competing product/team etc...

 

What's with the negative fanboy attitude here and in the other thread? I'm all for a lively debate about the merits of C:S vs SimCity but this is just petty and stupid. We're not talking about religion or politics, there's no reason people can't enjoy both franchises. 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

 

Wait Simcity 4 fans actually switching sides??

 

If that's true, then I guess they weren't real fans to begin with.

 

 

 

 

You cannot claim to be a real fan/true fan and then support a competing product/team etc...

 

What's with the negative fanboy attitude here and in the other thread? I'm all for a lively debate about the merits of C:S vs SimCity but this is just petty and stupid. We're not talking about religion or politics, there's no reason people can't enjoy both franchises. 

 

I play Banished too

[chocolate_city 93]

Wait Simcity 4 fans actually switching sides??

 

If that's true, then I guess they weren't real fans to begin with.

 

The one true thing Cities: Skylines will have that Simcity 4 didn't will be paid mods (yes you can do that on Steam now). 

 

Please pardon my naivete.... Who gets paid... the fans or Colossal Order...

[Mystrelia 57]

 

Wait Simcity 4 fans actually switching sides??

 

If that's true, then I guess they weren't real fans to begin with.

 

The one true thing Cities: Skylines will have that Simcity 4 didn't will be paid mods (yes you can do that on Steam now). 

 

Please pardon my naivete.... Who gets paid... the fans or Colossal Order...

 

Yeah, some people have a very, um, awkward? definition of the word fan.

 

Now, directly back at Xenocity, do you really expect people to continue playing TS4 for the next twenty or so years? Dude! That game is old! It doesn't mean we don't like it, it just means we also like doing other things too. Imagine if you will, having two favorite foods. Imagine having three or four favorite actors, two or three favorite singers, etc. It's entirely possible to be a fan of more than one thing of the same type at a time.

[MushyMushy 3,618]

Wait Simcity 4 fans actually switching sides??

 

If that's true, then I guess they weren't real fans to begin with.

 

The one true thing Cities: Skylines will have that Simcity 4 didn't will be paid mods (yes you can do that on Steam now). 

 

I'm confused as to why I, a very clear SC4 fan, am not allowed to support another franchise/game. I've yet to play CSL (even though I have a copy), but I'm still interested to see how it plays out. SC2013 was an obvious bust so I'm hoping maybe CSL can eventually become a viable modern city builder, not that SC4 needs a replacement since it works completely fine. In other words, I have a certain interest in (and so far mostly approve of) CSL despite my love for SC4.

[Cobraroll 138]

I'm confused as to why I, a very clear SC4 fan, am not allowed to support another franchise/game.

 

Tribal association.

 

Basically, when people see you liking SimCity 4, they mentally file you under the "SimCity 4 tribe". Liking SimCity 4 is now your one, defining trait in the field of city building game preferences. It's rather easy to keep track of people that way, by "filing" them according to one trait. Practically required when you as a person have to keep track of many acquantances.

 

Then, when they see you talking positive about CSL, it creates confusion. "Wait, I thought he was in the SC4 tribe?". They then take your "file" out of the mental file cabinet, and put it under "CSL tribe" instead. Again, people do this all the time, for instance when remembering what companies various people represent. To the average, humanly evolved onlooker, your praise for another game will overwrite your previous praise for SC4. "Filing" people makes it easy for the brain to remember them, but the brain is not that great of a database. Unless you know the person well, you can't associate him with more than one trait in every setting.

 

Then the concept of "false dilemma" enters the picture. Obviously, whether to prefer SC4 or CSL is a choice, so if you're for the one, you obviously hate the other (it makes sense as long as you don't think about it, and in most settings, you won't - another handy evolutionary trait that kept us from spending all day pondering about stuff). With us or against us, you know the deal. So to recap: Liking SC4 or CSL is mutually exclusive, and if you like the one you're against the other. Prejudice, if you like.

 

Normally, people won't make such a fuzz about that. I mean, it's like whether or not you prefer to sort your stamp collection by rows or by columns. Unless I were an avid stamp collector myself, I wouldn't care the least bit. Problems only arise when people associate themselves with one of the sides. If they themselves have a clear preference of SC4 or CSL over the other, and they naturally assume that you do too, they will feel like their own "tribe" has gained a loss or a victory when you express preference for the side they don't associate you with. Try joining a sports team supporter group one day, and leave it after a year - most likely, the other supporters will refuse to talk to you for the rest of your days.

 

 

Hence, people will say you've "switched sides" when you do anything but hate the game they don't think you like. They will be baffled, as in their minds this implies that you've taken a dump on and kicked out the game you've said you liked so much in the past. CSL fans will say "Hey! Welcome to our tribe!", while SC4 fans will begin waxing their pitchforks.

 

Of course, they themselves (or their close friends/family) can like two things at once, but imagining that trait in other people is a heck of a lot harder. Instinctively, we tend not to look at people we don't know as actual people. They're more like extras in the grand game of life, with one defining trait and one role to play. For instance, weren't you totally mindblown as a kid the first time you saw your teacher outside a school setting?

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

I wouldn't say I have switched sides, but I prefer CS to SC4 because CS is the future. I found myself reaching a limit with the modded SC4 because no matter how many mods are out there the grid cannot be broken. Sure you can diagonal buildings and FAR roads, but it is very time-consuming. Then came CS and I knew there was no going back, finally the first 3D city simulator to not drop the ball and actually improve the genre.

 

Already modders have developed the first seawalls, retaining walls, fillers, a tool to alter all turning lanes, two-lane highways, a whole batch of cool skyscrapers, a lot of large buildings very fit for industry, ground texture fillers, terrain mod, more fauna, beach props, fences, road retexture mods, make historical feature and other cool stuff.

 

Not bad for a game that is only six weeks old. All of this despite no expansion packs or official DLCs. That's why CS is the future since it is so rapidly catching up to the modded SC4.

[Somnolence 81]

C:SL is indeed a great game, that is actually what I expected SC13 to be. Good gameplay with 3d camera and diagonal/curved/freehand roads. Modding also seems easier than for SC4... But that grid also makes the game look better in my opinion, and region play doesn't seem to be possible in C:SL. So i am neither "switching sides" nor leaving SC4. C:SL can grow and develop, but SC4 will probably always be my favorite.

[catty-cb 4,412]

....and region play doesn't seem to be possible in C:SL....

 

Perhaps not, but the maps are big enough that you can build separate cities on them, I do miss having proper farms 

[Mystrelia 57]

The first time I discovered all the custom farms for SC4 I went nuts. Man I love those things! I have downloaded a bunch of park lots to add to my farming district in Skylines and it helps but I'll be darned, way too many of them weren't properly edited when created not to send out a park notice so there ends up being way too much traffic out there. I need to find out if I can successfully edit someone else's lots because it's quite a nuisance. As I learned how the resources work I now also zone some farming industrial near where the cargo depot is, which is off the fertile ground, so this is where the factory-type buildings build and the fertile ground is being developed with mostly fields which is also making it look much more realistic.

[catty-cb 4,412]

I would have loved it if you could have used the "Districts" tool to tell the game to grow farm fields (or forests) in an area or along side roads and railway lines ... not to be functional as such, but almost like landscape

[Marc Collins 36]

I would have loved it if you could have used the "Districts" tool to tell the game to grow farm fields (or forests) in an area or along side roads and railway lines ... not to be functional as such, but almost like landscape

 

 

Great idea that shouldn't be that difficult for CO to implement.

[crishy 57]

Skylines is a very promissing game. Out of the box I feel it is better and funnier than SC4. I am sticking with SC4 though, one, because of the size constraints of CS. Even with the unlock all 25 areas mod I feel the 10 x 10 km area (read: 2 by 2 large SC4 cities or so) CS offers is rather small. Much better than SC2013 of course, and decent enough for the average player, but not for me haha.

 

I might consider switching full time once the creation of larger areas is possible and scale issues like ridiculously small airports are fixed by mods, but then again, the second reason comes in, and that I am still working to fill a 500+ large cities SC4 metropolitan area larger than modded CS by two orders of magnitude.

 

So I doubt I will ever switch permanently, even if CS gets better in paper, unless it includes a full region (not just the topography) import so I can continue this work there lol. Meaning SC4 probably will forever hold the crown.

[Essex 322]

Skylines is a very promissing game. Out of the box I feel it is better and funnier than SC4. I am sticking with SC4 though, one, because of the size constraints of CS. Even with the unlock all 25 areas mod I feel the 10 x 10 km area (read: 2 by 2 large SC4 cities or so) CS offers is rather small. Much better than SC2013 of course, and decent enough for the average player, but not for me haha.

 

I might consider switching full time once the creation of larger areas is possible and scale issues like ridiculously small airports are fixed by mods, but then again, the second reason comes in, and that I am still working to fill a 500+ large cities SC4 metropolitan area larger than modded CS by two orders of magnitude.

 

So I doubt I will ever switch permanently, even if CS gets better in paper, unless it includes a full region (not just the topography) import so I can continue this work there lol. Meaning SC4 probably will forever hold the crown.

I agree. I really like CS but it's way too small. I play with 81 tile mod, and it's still small. Also what is really disappointing is that there is a building or parts limit. So after a while you can't build anything anymore. SC4 is wonderful because you can replicate countries. I still play and love CS as I play it more like a model city, love the mod where you can go in first person and drive with your citizens through your town, most fun I'm having with it! 81 tile limit has been hard coded in the game and will never be bigger.

[chocolate_city 93]

Who made these ridiculous rules and definitions of what a "true fan" is... Anyone who spends anytime at all on any simulation game is a "true fan" or else why play.   That applies to those who go to that games site and converses with those of like mind... just my two cents mind you...

[crishy 57]

Who made these ridiculous rules and definitions of what a "true fan" is... Anyone who spends anytime at all on any simulation game is a "true fan" or else why play.   That applies to those who go to that games site and converses with those of like mind... just my two cents mind you...

 

I agree with you, one may not restrict this to only specific games (but rather to the genre or hobby itself), or behavior like "SC4 forever!", and so on. Also, as pointed out, you can still be a fan and at the same time recognize another similar product is better, "switch" to the other product, and/or be a fan of the new product also (for example, as much as I like Air Canada and its history, livery, etc, if I am given the option to travel Cathay YYZ to HKG in the same fare class, I will take the latter given its better product). In the end it is just all semantics. Fans and loyalty was not the original point of the thread to begin with anyway.

 

Technology (or most things you use for your own personal use for that matter) does not leave a lot of space for "loyalties" in the strictest of terms anyway, and it would make sense that if you have access to something better, for your own personal use, why not "switch" in the first place? In the end one had a lot of fun with SC4, but now it has a game that is on par with it or so for some it is time to move on... Whether or not that does not make them a "true/loyal fan" is irrelevant since (besides, again, not being the original topic of this thread) they had fun with the game and now they have something they consider better, and that is all that matters.

 

Of course, it helped SC4 that it did not have any close contenders for a long time, so yea... It had a monopoly all for itself so it had all the "fans"  and all the "loyalty" by default anyway. And given this forum was and remains primarily a SC4 forum maybe seeing old time users switch to another game might give that impression, but still...

 

 

I agree. I really like CS but it's way too small. I play with 81 tile mod, and it's still small. Also what is really disappointing is that there is a building or parts limit. So after a while you can't build anything anymore. SC4 is wonderful because you can replicate countries. I still play and love CS as I play it more like a model city, love the mod where you can go in first person and drive with your citizens through your town, most fun I'm having with it! 81 tile limit has been hard coded in the game and will never be bigger.

 

 

 

D:

[Essex 322]

* BTW the "81" tile mod is really a 7x7 49 tile mod. No idea how they came with up with 81 tiles.

[ghosty20 150]

To those being disappointed, I spose so but with games like this, There are reasons for the limits in the game as what it does, needs a lot computing power to be able to achieve, what with every Cim in the game being simulated the traffic and even the water which is dynamic in C:SL which was never done before in any City building game (on one map that showed the sewage from the sewage outfalls go up the river a bit and then swirl and eddy around the tip of an island before flowing back downstream)..

 

I remember when SC4 came out (January 2003) and all I had was a lowly Pentium based system (can't remember what one) but anyway I could never go above a medium size map less my machine slow to a crawl and even on a medium sized map with a lot going on it would slow down..

 

In the end with SC4 you are playing a 12 year old game on, in most cases the latest systems which are very fast compared to back when the game was released..  And as with SC2013 and C:SL there have to be limits put on them so that everyone can play them with what hardware is available now without having too much hassle..

[crishy 57]

To those being disappointed, I spose so but with games like this, There are reasons for the limits in the game as what it does, needs a lot computing power to be able to achieve, what with every Cim in the game being simulated the traffic and even the water which is dynamic in C:SL which was never done before in any City building game (on one map that showed the sewage from the sewage outfalls go up the river a bit and then swirl and eddy around the tip of an island before flowing back downstream)..

 

I remember when SC4 came out (January 2003) and all I had was a lowly Pentium based system (can't remember what one) but anyway I could never go above a medium size map less my machine slow to a crawl and even on a medium sized map with a lot going on it would slow down..

 

In the end with SC4 you are playing a 12 year old game on, in most cases the latest systems which are very fast compared to back when the game was released..  And as with SC2013 and C:SL there have to be limits put on them so that everyone can play them with what hardware is available now without having too much hassle..

 

Well, a region play mode with cities with hard borders, and the removal of the object number limit (at least region wide rather than city wide) would fix much of that, at the cost of a significant tone down of simulation of stuff beyond the borders of any specific cities you are playing at.

 

When I started playing SC4, 10 years ago or so, I managed to create large regions with close to minimal requirements, since the simulation in each individual city did not take into consideration (that much anyway) stuff beyond its borders. Good times with a 512 MB RAM machine...

[CorpusDei 69]

As an aside, with regards to limits... I discovered there's a limit to the number of trees you can have on a map yesterday.

 

I really need to tone down my tree planting addiction :|

[Mystrelia 57]

Yes, yes, there's a tree limit. I've been wondering if said limit takes into account the number of trees under buildings or if while the buildings are on the trees if they don't count. I remember seeing a mod that destroys trees when buildings grow on a piece of land and thinking perhaps that is why that mod was created.

[chocolate_city 93]

Maybe this is more naivete on my part... but what about an option that takes your system into consideration... and lets you build a city that would function normally with your computers' parameters...

[CorpusDei 69]

Yes, yes, there's a tree limit. I've been wondering if said limit takes into account the number of trees under buildings or if while the buildings are on the trees if they don't count. I remember seeing a mod that destroys trees when buildings grow on a piece of land and thinking perhaps that is why that mod was created.

 

It doesn't seem to, or there may be a separate cap for buildings/parks with trees on; I can still plop parks with trees even when I could no longer actually plant trees (got bulldozer happy to remove some excess in the end).