Looks like the Crown has been passed....

[Turjan 1,048]

However one thing always be the chain pulling the game from advancing - performance.

 

I have already said this before the game was released, but I was a bit worried that anyone would be able to make Unity run well. CO succeeded surprisingly well, but it's still Unity. Around 7 to 8 tiles filled, switching speed stopped doing anything for me. With 9 tiles filled, I already noticed a slight choppiness, not much distracting, but slightly worrying at this point. Also, something I did not expect, when I just increased the city size from 9 to 25 (by loading a downloaded city that had that enabled before loading my city), the performance took another hit. And this, though I didn't even have anything at all on those added tiles.

So, performance is a bit of a difficult topic with this engine.

 

I'm not saying that I blame people for playing on slow machine, but that is a fact that holding the game back to being rather cartoonish, low polygon, etc. If you want to compete with SC4's pre-rendered visual, you gotta have higher polygon for every objects and remove all those dang trees/road limitations (that already not enough to fill the current map).

 

Oh, just blame people like me, I can live with it . Anyway, you are right on this. Coming from SC4, you get a noticeable hit in some kind of visuals, like what textures can be used. When I loaded Ragutaro's "Golden Pavilion", I felt so sorry because of the workaround he had to use for that pond. And those limits are the real biggy. I can live with bad performance, but please let me build and decide myself when it's time to draw the line.

 

I'm certainly aiming for something far more realistic which probably not gonna happens anytime soon...

 

I hope that at least the limitations regarding objects and textures get tackled.

 

Anybody actually feels the road is kinda BIG? As long as nobody create a variety of proper road size I'm not gonna be completely happy with this game. We have a better grid of 8m x 8m now, USE that advantage!

That's my major concern right now and seems like no body really cares. I can only guess most of you lives in rich cities... Everyone seems like just want to build BIG BIGGER BIGGERZAPARAZA...

 

Yeah, they are still double "normal" sizes. After SC4 and having lived in the US for long times, it doesn't look out of place. Maybe they add some kind of usable alleys for bikes at some point.

Regarding people living in rich cities, you have to remember it's a game. Many people may just want to build a city they would like to live in, regardless how their current one looks.

[CorpusDei 69]

I can only guess most of you lives in rich cities...

 

Ummmm ... somewhere in that mess : https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5183453,-1.9974667,12z

 

I was kinda happy when I discovered someone had actually had a crack at making Spaghetti Junction (Gravelly Hill Interchange, M6 J6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravelly_Hill_Interchange in CS:L ... they must be mad!

[TPB 563]

I think the crown has not been passed nor will it ever be passed. SC4 will remain forever in our hearts as the first King(or queen?) 

 

Perhaps some day C:SL will take it's place in our gaming habits, but certainly not in our hearts, imo.

 

You can already notice a massive decrease in popularity as the initial excitement wore off.

 

I mean look at these charts: http://steamcharts.com/app/255710

 

-40% usage in last month already... I think CO kinda screwed up on that big time. I mean come on guys, hire more ppl? You game just sold 1m copy! Maybe hire more people if you can't handle it? There are thousands of posts, also on Steam, questions unanswered, lack of guidelines, wiki is very incomplete, etc, etc. 

 

It just looks like they were not ready for this success and they have had a massive backfire from this.

 

GTAV also didnt help, but the Menu Icons issue by itself probably put off an incredible amount of people from this game, as did the mess that the workshop has become, the lack of clear guidelines or even answers to simple questions.

 

I'm sorry guys at CO but you could have done a much better job post-launch.

 

And thats what I think, have a nice day.

 

EDIT: Since I don't this to come off the wrong way, I just want to say I am not having a go at Azurespecter specifically, I think you have done a fantastic job Azurespecter, all I'm saying is that you probably need more than 1 community manager when you have such a huge success

[xonedl 342]

Ummmm ... somewhere in that mess : https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5183453,-1.9974667,12z

 

I was kinda happy when I discovered someone had actually had a crack at making Spaghetti Junction (Gravelly Hill Interchange, M6 J6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravelly_Hill_Interchange in CS:L ... they must be mad!

At least still way more beautiful and organized than my mess up place... 

 

Still, let just zoom in to random spot in your place and take a measurement.

I hope people see now what I trying to convey - not every place we need roads with extra "accessories".

I just want some roads that are architecturally accurate compared to real world version. That 1 square difference is a big deal.

The lane size in the game is quite alright, just that they have extra stuff that take up more spaces that I don't really need them to be everywhere.

 

[Mystrelia 57]

I don't think there are enough rich cities in the world for most of us to live in. I live in a rural area about forty miles away from where the "city" starts. The metropolitan area closest here starts about twenty-five miles away and includes several counties and has slightly over 600,000 people spread over it. When I work on my city I have no real life reference because the last time I was in a city was when we visited L.A. in 1982 and I've never had a desire to go back. I just build my city based on what my imagination can do with the tools I have to work with. It doesn't matter to me if it's not super realistic because I play video games to escape reality, not necessarily to recreate it. That's just my play style, though.

[idcaf 65]

Classic data manipulation.

 

I mean look at these charts: http://steamcharts.com/app/255710

 

Just FYI, SC4 has peak 700 players last month, C:SL has 48.000. Yeah, really worriesome.

 

And you're blaming "menu icon issues" for the lack of sales,... sorry mate but there approximately a one million more cruicial reasons why some people haven't bought it than some menu icon problem. 

[Mystrelia 57]

@TPB, is that really you? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or something? You're usually so chipper your post about threw me. I remember reading an interview with Mariina just a few weeks ago. CO was not in any way prepared for the kind of reception Skylines has had. She was thinking they might sell 300,000 copies of the game in its lifetime. I'm not saying they've done everything perfectly but I think they've done a reasonably good job. As for their official forum, I have never seen nor do I ever expect a representative of a game company to come into the forum and hold our hands as we ask questions, especially when most of those questions have already been answered.

 

Indeed, there are changes I'd like to see with this game. At the same time I know all these things take time.

[TPB 563]

Eh, I'm not blaming it entirely on the icon issue, but trust me that's pretty big issue at least for the modder community.

 

Listen guys I just saying what I think, it's not a personal attack on Marina or anyone else, it's just my own observations, take it or leave it.

 

48k is peak number, not average. 

 

The average usage went down by 40%. In theory the average player count should be up too with 1m sales, why has it gone down to 15k? Shrug.

 

Also I'm not talking about sales, I´'m talking about people buying the game and not playing it anymore. About average play time and all that.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Classic data manipulation.

 

I mean look at these charts: http://steamcharts.com/app/255710

 

Just FYI, SC4 has peak 700 players last month, C:SL has 48.000. Yeah, really worriesome.

 

And you're blaming "menu icon issues" for the lack of sales,... sorry mate but there approximately a one million more cruicial reasons why some people haven't bought it than some menu icon problem. 

 

While I doubt it would level the field, remember SC4 is playable outside of Steam.

[Azurespecter 506]

I'm always up for constructive criticism =) I definitely agree that the asset icon situation is overdue for a fix, I even checked out your guide and sent it straight over to CO. Perhaps that one is my fault for not stressing it enough in my reports. I'll double my efforts!

 

I also do know that CO is growing and working extremely hard to keep Cities: Skylines fresh with new content and upgrades. I promise they aren't just sitting around eating cake. They are eager to keep up with this community, which admittedly, is growing faster than expected.

 

If you feel there are really pressing concerns, or things that you strongly feel the community needs to know about, you can always contact me directly!

 

As for numbers, it's not so worrisome. This month has a few reasons that affect numbers. Easter vacation, kids on spring break, college finals (at least in the US). And GTA.

[ghosty20 150]

@TBP

 

I more than interested why you are so interested in the games sales and how many people are playing it..  Really the thing is as I see it that like many games it is best to take it in small doses.. The same can be said for SC4, Cities XL/XXL, SC2013 you can have times when you can go nuts playing them.. And others when you don't feel like playing it, just give CO some time to be able to keep fine tuning the game..  The main problem is that you can't really compare SC4 to CSL, SC4 has been around for for years mind you EA / Maxis stopped supporting the game soon after Rush Hour was released and only due to the community that the game is where it is..  And with EA closing one of the Maxis studios sounds like deja vu again the release Cities of Tomorrow and that might be pretty much it..

 

One thing you have to also consider is that at least the launch of CSL has been really good unlike the fiasco that was SC2013, the other thing is that CO are still going and from what I know they are working on more patches and content for CSL.. And one last thing this is CO's first real foray into the City Building genre..

[Azurespecter 506]

I hope people see now what I trying to convey - not every place we need roads with extra "accessories".

I just want some roads that are architecturally accurate compared to real world version. That 1 square difference is a big deal.

The lane size in the game is quite alright, just that they have extra stuff that take up more spaces that I don't really need them to be everywhere.

 

CO eventually wants players to have more freedom with roads. That level of freedom, and properly working tools, take a good deal of time though. Sorry I can't deliver any promises, but as said in my post above, I promise CO is working hard to try and give you the things you want!

[ghosty20 150]

 

I hope people see now what I trying to convey - not every place we need roads with extra "accessories".

I just want some roads that are architecturally accurate compared to real world version. That 1 square difference is a big deal.

The lane size in the game is quite alright, just that they have extra stuff that take up more spaces that I don't really need them to be everywhere.

 

CO eventually wants players to have more freedom with roads. That level of freedom, and properly working tools, take a good deal of time though. Sorry I can't deliver any promises, but as said in my post above, I promise CO is working hard to try and give you the things you want!

 

Awesome can't wait to see what they have cooked up over there..

 

The only other thing minor issue as such since I don't use it much is that going into either of the editors is a oneway street as you are unable to exit to main menu or desktop and have to force close the game unfortunately..

[xonedl 342]

The only other thing minor issue as such since I don't use it much is that going into either of the editors is a oneway street as you are unable to exit to main menu or desktop and have to force close the game unfortunately..

You must be using "Help Button Remover". That's one of the mod that cause that kind of problem.

[ghosty20 150]

 

The only other thing minor issue as such since I don't use it much is that going into either of the editors is a oneway street as you are unable to exit to main menu or desktop and have to force close the game unfortunately..

You must be using "Help Button Remover". That's one of the mod that cause that kind of problem.

 

Weird thing is I am not using that mod so not sure what mod is doing it..

 

Ok I found the culprit it is the Transport Lines Manager 2.1 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=408875519) mod that is causing me not being able to exit the asset editor..

[TPB 563]

I'm always up for constructive criticism =) 

 

This^ 

 

I'm just trying to do my job too as a huge fan of this game, what's the use of feedback if it's all always positive right? : )

 

@ghosty20 Hmm, I'm not saying everyone should be playing this 24/7 like me : ) Just my thoughts on the raw figures when I look at them, it seemed odd to me that you had such a drop in average players while reporting 1m sales record.

And also thoughts and feelings I've gathered from around the communities I frequent, including the IRC Modders channel and elsewhere, many people joke they should give nlight a job, for example

[ghosty20 150]

 

I'm always up for constructive criticism =) 

 

This^ 

 

I'm just trying to do my job too as a huge fan of this game, what's the use of feedback if it's all always positive right? : )

 

@ghosty20 Hmm, I'm not saying everyone should be playing this 24/7 like me : ) Just my thoughts on the raw figures when I look at them, it seemed odd to me that you had such a drop in average players while reporting 1m sales record.

And also thoughts and feelings I've gathered from around the communities I frequent, including the IRC Modders channel and elsewhere, many people joke they should give nlight a job, for example

 

All cool as well this game has been the best thing for me since I stopped playing SC2013, due to many and varied bugs still present.. I have Cities XL Platinum and don't think much of it at all..  And I have not played SC4 in years mainly due to it not liking my computer..

[chocolate_city 93]

Personally the highway system in Cities XXL and Platinum cannot be beat by any of these simulators... I do realize that it takes more than just a love of roads to make a city... but they sure make them look alot more interesting than anyone else has had to offer... including the NAM.. I still like Cities Skyline... but playing it the way it is now ain't happening

[aable 63]

 

@ghosty20 Hmm, I'm not saying everyone should be playing this 24/7 like me : ) Just my thoughts on the raw figures when I look at them, it seemed odd to me that you had such a drop in average players while reporting 1m sales record.

And also thoughts and feelings I've gathered from around the communities I frequent, including the IRC Modders channel and elsewhere, many people joke they should give nlight a job, for example

 

 

I don't think there is anything at all unusual about the average player number dropping over time. Believe it or not, the average customer probably buys the game, plays it for a few days, then goes and plays something else for a while before coming back to it. That doesn't mean anyone is disappointed or anything is 'screwed up'. I've been playing less in the past few weeks than I was in March just because last month I was playing like it was my full time job and I can't afford to do that all the time.   Seems like natural regression to me.

 

If it was a multiplayer game then I think those charts might be worth paying attention to because you want to have a consistent base of players online. For a single player game it doesn't matter one bit, people play at their own pace. 

[TPB 563]

You're probably right... but well I had to get that little rant out of me I guess, apologies to anyone I may have offended.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

Maybe something else to consider... if people are playing offline, does this not report usage stats? Personally, as I tend to go offline, my recorded total is far less than the actual time I've played the game. It might be that after getting used to things, less people see a reason to continue with Steam connected, hence the drop in numbers?

 

Anyway, back to the topic:

 

For me, even though I think Skylines is a great game, I don't see this a reason to cease interest in SC4. Because they're so different to each other (as with comparing between any modern 3D game), they both have their own strengths. Obviously SC4 has 12 years worth of content -- a major incentive to retain interest for years to come. Modding in CSL has started off in a positive direction, although it'll take a long time to reach this depth of content. So really, for the time being, I'll still be enjoying both games for completely different reasons.

[Turjan 1,048]

I'm convinced the drop-off in player numbers is real. I know many people who played the game (different community) and have moved on to something else by now. The very lively discussion has stopped. Most of them said something like that they had seen everything there is to be seen in this game, find it a bit bare bones and repetitive. Some of them said they may look at it again if there's more content and better usability in the future.

 

If everything you do ends up looking the same, there's not much use in doing it over and over. There are several questionable design decisions that even reduce the diversity the game comes with out of the box: resources that last 15 minutes, specialized industry and low-density commercial where nobody wants to work, monuments that make whole gameplay elements obsolete (power, education, health) and/or level everything up indiscriminately (Eden). Did anyone manage to keep level 1 housing? If I place a fire station (not doing that makes the game annoyingly tedious) I get an immediate level-up. Even minor things, like making cemeteries obsolete (can't you convert them into some park for urn storage or something like that? Have a crematory on-site?) removes elements from the game. It would go a long way if the game wouldn't homogenize its own appearance the way it works.

 

That said, I've put lots of hours into the game, so this has definitely been a very worthy buy for me. However, it's still very visible that this was done by someone who made traffic simulations before that, as this part is lots of fun, despite all the warts concerning moronic lane use and emergency vehicle behavior (if a house burns down because the fire truck waits for ages in the right lane of an otherwise completely empty 6-lane one-way road it gets bizarre). Building train lines is fun. Having everything look the same in the end, not so much.

[ghosty20 150]

See and this is the problem I think that people were expecting something like SC4 is now..  The issue is that it took the tireless work of the community over 12 years to get SC4 to a point where everyone liked it..  When SC4 first came out is was a barebones game and took Rush Hour and some industrious modders to spice things up more..

 

The thing is we will see what happens over the years, as C:SL is just over a month or so old, heck I still love it finding the nuances of the game and what new mods come out for it one awesome one being a UI framework mod and different types of UI design plugins..

[aable 63]

I'm convinced the drop-off in player numbers is real. I know many people who played the game (different community) and have moved on to something else by now. The very lively discussion has stopped. Most of them said something like that they had seen everything there is to be seen in this game, find it a bit bare bones and repetitive. Some of them said they may look at it again if there's more content and better usability in the future.

 

If everything you do ends up looking the same, there's not much use in doing it over and over. There are several questionable design decisions that even reduce the diversity the game comes with out of the box: resources that last 15 minutes, specialized industry and low-density commercial where nobody wants to work, monuments that make whole gameplay elements obsolete (power, education, health) and/or level everything up indiscriminately (Eden). Did anyone manage to keep level 1 housing? If I place a fire station (not doing that makes the game annoyingly tedious) I get an immediate level-up. Even minor things, like making cemeteries obsolete (can't you convert them into some park for urn storage or something like that? Have a crematory on-site?) removes elements from the game. It would go a long way if the game wouldn't homogenize its own appearance the way it works.

 

That said, I've put lots of hours into the game, so this has definitely been a very worthy buy for me. However, it's still very visible that this was done by someone who made traffic simulations before that, as this part is lots of fun, despite all the warts concerning moronic lane use and emergency vehicle behavior (if a house burns down because the fire truck waits for ages in the right lane of an otherwise completely empty 6-lane one-way road it gets bizarre). Building train lines is fun. Having everything look the same in the end, not so much.

 

These are all great points. Discussion has definitely died down from the fever pitch that it was around the game's release. If it wasn't for the modding community, I would definitely feel like I have seen everything there is to see, and I've been against the monuments and the 15 minute resource depletion from the beginning too. The biggest game breaker for a citybuilder for me is everything looking the same, but thankfully the modding community has already given us a lot to work with. I think the best thing that happened to this game was is has sold beyond CO's wildest dreams and so they've promised to keep improving it. Probably the majority of those first 1 million customers aren't hardcore citybuilding fans who may never play much more after getting their $30 worth, but there are plenty of us who will keep playing for years if they keep improving it. And it does need improving. 

[Turjan 1,048]

Sure. In case this was not clear, I like the game. I don't waste my time with writing about games I don't like (except if they are comically bad). I had lots of fun with this so far, and I expect to have a whole lot more in the future. Hey, there has been a modular "central" railway station released, one of my first day wishes. Of course I have to try that out .

[Mystrelia 57]

These are some of the reasons I like taking a slow exploring process toward just about any video game I play. I don't play it every day and last week allowed myself to be enveloped by Minecraft so there is still a lot for me to do and learn in Cities: Skylines. I recall over the years scores of players who get a game and have to do everything there is to do with it in the first week, then they're tired of it. I'm still learning how to balance things and how to best manipulate traffic. I probably won't even have my entire city built by the time tunnels come out. I think one of the best things I did was stop comparing this game to SC4 shortly after I started playing it. As much as I've enjoyed the SimCity games over the years I'd hate to have Skylines be just another SimCity game.

 

And writing of things like railroads and such, has anyone run across a cargo depot that's perhaps a bit smaller than the in-game version and would look a bit better located near a bustling commercial district? I've looked and not seen one. I thought about making one but I couldn't figure out how to do that in the Asset Editor because all I saw was an option for making passenger stations. It would no doubt help if I spent more time in the editor but I've currently been more interested in playing than making things.

[Turjan 1,048]

And writing of things like railroads and such, has anyone run across a cargo depot that's perhaps a bit smaller than the in-game version and would look a bit better located near a bustling commercial district? I've looked and not seen one.

 

I haven't seen any yet. I just try to make the environs a bit nicer with paths and trees.

 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

What part of "the game is moddable and more features are to come" don't some people understand? Those who dropped off already are those who take a city builder at face value and do not see it as a creative outlet and find repetitiveness of what they get out the box and spend most of the time figuring out traffic and mechanics vs imagining a city with certain characteristics (those who enjoy city builders the most have it mostly all in the head). Then there are those who are waiting/hoping for the new features before they continue so they can do what they really want to do with the game. Doesn't mean they gave up.

 

Do some people expect the honeymoon to last forever? SC4 had 4 solid years of being the only kid on the block and that alone consolidated the vast community around it. This title is not alone. It's been made clear that some things are left undone and can be done better. That does not mean the game is failing. Name one title in video game history that never fluctuated or had less people playing within the first few months. Personally I don't really care what others are doing with their game or whether they're playing or not. As long as I enjoy it, that's all that matters. City builders are not popular like Call of Duty or GTA. in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if GTA5 is getting a lot of attention right now. Name 5 people in your neighborhood you know who are excited about playing a city builder. So lets not expect too much from this. When the new features are released, we will see if we are taken to a newer, richer level of this experience. Cities Skylines is a great game and SC4 is still alive and kickin as the champ so far.

 

My only small concern is if CO will deliver the full modding package at the very least and address some of the "must be fixed" issues. I'm cautiously optimistic about that. The main thing that's keeping me going is making my own custom content in the mean time.

[thenext88 102]

I expect over the next year the engine will be polished up. That includes better traffic pathing (full utilization of lanes), a more realistic education system so I can grow industry even long after my city has grown, no more depletion of raw materials, large growable farms, etc. In two years I think it'll be great, and just about adding content, updating the graphics, etc. The game works well enough right at the start I can't imagine it not being great in that time.

[Turjan 1,048]

That does not mean the game is failing.

 

Not sure how you got the idea anyone implied this. This is not an MMO. Saleswise, it has been a success already.