New and confused/frustrated

[Zeether 0]

So I've played SimCity 2000 and 3000 but I've never gone super in depth with them, and SC4 is frustrating me to no end with regards to starting to make a city. I've tried to start small but I keep quickly thinking I should grow because the game keeps telling me I should, and I keep getting annoyed at the constant demand for industrial zones even though the instant I put one down, no matter how far off I make it from my residential zones, the environment ratings go to pot and I get stuck in the red the whole time. I've figured out how to not have traffic problems, but I don't know how to zone right and I keep getting the "no jobs" zot if I try doing a region-to-region connection with industrial stuff in another region so I have a cleaner area.

 

I know it's a slow process to get to skyscrapers and everything, but I feel overwhelmed by what I need to do and I can't seem to take it slow because I always hit the cheetah button and want stuff to build fast. I've looked at tutorials and tried doing stuff like them but they don't help. I'm not sure what to do aside from experimenting but the experimenting is what is making me rip my hair out in rage from my Sims not cooperating with what I want them to do. I build stuff off of avenues with small grids of residential zones but they never develop, and I'm not sure if it's because they're 1x1 tiles or because I'm doing it wrong.

 

I also keep having more expenses than profits, and I've tried what the tutorial told me about that but it still wouldn't work. The game whines at me that I need fire stations and police, but I don't need them right away, yet I still get less profit.

 

Also, should I install NAM? I'm also confused with road networks and I feel like getting more stuff to manage it would only end up making me more confused and frustrated.

[Compdude787 916]

You don't need to build your city the way the game tells you to. In fact, you should ignore most of your advisers' messages. The messages of the advisors are set up so that you end up building a giant metropolis in every one of your cities. They might also make you go bankrupt by telling you to provide your Sims with every civic service from the very beginning. When you do put down civic services like schools, power plants, or anything that has adjustable funding levels, click on them with the Query tool, and adjust the funding so that the building is provided with just enough money to meet capacity but no more. This is the single most important thing to ensuring that you are successful with making money in the game and not go bankrupt.

 

And yes, you should definitely install the NAM. It comes with an improved traffic simulator that calculates Sims' route to work based on fastest route rather than shortest distance. (Maxis had to dumb this down when shipping the game so it'd run on lower-end computers of the day) When installing the NAM, you can choose to only install the traffic simulator if you're not ready to explore all the other things the NAM has to offer yet. The improved traffic simulator of the NAM will result in better utilization of your highways and mass-transit systems, so it's definitely something you should download.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If you haven't, you should take a walk through

This pinned thread is there specifically for newcomers, and while it is getting a little dated, it still contains a great deal of good stuff.

 

AND: Welcome to Simtropolis.

 

We hope you enjoy your membership here.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Also, should I install NAM? I'm also confused with road networks and I feel like getting more stuff to manage it would only end up making me more confused and frustrated.

 

Keep in mind that it doesn't just add new roads to the game.  It fixes the imbalance in commute time calculation, the cause of all the infamous "no-job" zots you and everyone else used to get.

 

Just make sure you have the EP1 patch installed first.

[Compdude787 916]

If you haven't, you should take a walk through

Oh my, how could I forget about that page? That was so helpful for me when I wanted to begin to install mods.

 

And yeah, welcome to Simtropolis, Zeether!

[monkeywater 910]

Don't bother with fire and police at all.  If a fire pops up, place a fire station, use it, and then delete it.  Better for cashflow, and police are pretty much never needed if everyone is happy...place both after you get HT industry showing up though.

 

The single most important thing when trying to get a nonpoluted city is a high education level.

Don't bother with low density residential to start, only go with high because you need your sims to be concentrated within the educational building radius. 

 

You will not get high wealth sims needing high tech jobs if their area is polluted, so zone commercial and res next to eachother, and put industry in either the oposite corner of the map, or on a different map.  Connect them with rail because it is cheaper for long distances, and reduces traffic pollution.

 

Keep growing the industry and res/commercial until your tax money is enough for educational buildings, an dplace in center of the residential.  Repeat until there is a strong demand for HT and manufacturing industry.  This will not grow because of all the pollution in your industrial shithole corner, so zone a new industrial area and watch nonpoluting industry grow there.  Then crank the taxes on dirty industry, use the increased revenue to go on a build spree of stuff sims like (education, police, parks, health, etc), while growing the non-polluting industry, res, and commercial. 

[Zeether 0]

How do I handle water, though? If I want high density residential I'd assume that means water.

[naftixe 131]

Use a water tower or a simple pump and run water lines

[monkeywater 910]

How do I handle water, though? If I want high density residential I'd assume that means water.

Pay for it.  You don;t get nice cities without water.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

Do not install water too fast. Past 10 to 12 thousand  citizens is about right, and they will be able to handle the expense better.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

The best way of playing SC4 is to cheat. I always use fightthepower to remove all electricity demands, howdryiam to remove all water demands, youdon'tdeserveit to unlock all rewards and finally moolah to start off with half a billion simoleans. Get the NAM to fix the vanilla (unmodded) game's completely messed up traffic simulator and commute times.

 

Download the commercial services doubler to reduce the amount of Commercial zones you need for services- And download the industrial doubler- There is also an industrial quadrupler mod somewhere out there but it seems to have disappeared from the STEX.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/sc4modds/ This link -- a safe webpage -- takes you to a list of essential mods and plugins to get you started with custom content to improve the game a hundred times over. I have only two links which I think are most useful for taking care of those pesky diagonals and make the game look amazing:

 

SFBT Diagonal Fillers - https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1197

RRP Wooden Fences ChrisAdams3997 - https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1888

 

Enjoy the game and explore the content the SC4 community has to offer. Good luck.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Water and fire coverage are some of the first things I put in a city.  Better buildings are the result.  For a mere 10,000 Simoleons you can have a huge water supply:

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Patience really is key to this game.

 

The problem is many people want an all-rich, lush green yet densely populated, perfectly pampered and yet extremely profitable super-metropolitan utopia in no time. Pro tip: that won't work. (Unless, of course, you cheat the heck out of the game and basically turn it into a pure sandbox where most game mechanisms become irrelevant.)

 

Built a school? That's fine. But it will take several game years until the EQ boost kicks in. And the school will cost money.

Need industrial jobs? That's fine. But expect industry to pollute the environment until your city has advanced far enough to rely on high-tech and commerce.

Want a densely populated metropolis? That's fine. But expect high traffic volume and hence, high traffic noise, traffic jams, and traffic-related pollution.

 

SC4 can be frustrating because more than its predecesspors, it teaches a lesson: you can't have the cake and eat it. And you can never have it all. Which is not even a problem because you cannot lose.

 

The good thing is that once you accept this fact and get the hang of the game mechanism, you won't believe how easy it all is.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Our favourite sauropod makes some very good points.  There are some steep learning curves, and some can be taken a sip at a time.  The real pro tip is to go slow and take it easy.  This is supposed to be a leisure time game and fun.

 

Now with the NAM, there is this neat custom installer.  Since you are completely new to this game, do not accept the default installation of the NAM or you will be looking through menus forever.  Use the custom installation and, perhaps, use the 'traffic simulator only' option which is the first one in the list.  This installs the fixed traffic simulator and none of the other parts, which lets you play a much better regular game without worrying about the additional stuff in this huge package.

 

On the other hand, you could select 'Custom Installation' which then lets you pick and choose among the extensive set of options and sub-packages.  I suggest you first install only the traffic simulator which will also install all the documentation in the folder

.../SimCity 4/NAM Auxiliary Files/Documentation.

This gives you some leisure to examine the package, and to get a handle on the features.  Alas, like all programming documentation, this set is about one release behind, but it is good enough.  You might then want to have a walk through some of the UTube videos, particularly one set called 'Building a City from Scratch' by one of our better members.

 

Remember, that after Maxis studio and EA released this gem of a program, thousands of end-users have added a few last words to this open-ended beauty since 2003, and made it into an urban building artist's canvas.  It is really a huge exercise in self-induced problem solving, and can be a lot of fun.  You will get as much out of it as you put in.

 

Enjoy yourself.  I have since the first edition of this game came out.

[bearcatnat 3]

SC4 can be frustrating because more than its predecesspors, it teaches a lesson: you can't have the cake and eat it. And you can never have it all. Which is not even a problem because you cannot lose.

 

I'm curious what happens if you completely run out of money? Your city is bankrupt? Can you just keep playing forever and try to pull it out of the water?

[Temeku 0]

 

SC4 can be frustrating because more than its predecesspors, it teaches a lesson: you can't have the cake and eat it. And you can never have it all. Which is not even a problem because you cannot lose.

 

I'm curious what happens if you completely run out of money? Your city is bankrupt? Can you just keep playing forever and try to pull it out of the water?

 

 

If your deficit gets too high (such as -$100,000+), you (as mayor) get "impeached". The game kicks you out of the city and displays a message saying something about you having to get out of town. You can re-enter the city, and it will continue from your last save point. Often by then, however, it is too late (depending on how often you save).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Actually, the game is quite cynical.  If you run your city into bankruptcy, you get promoted to the United States Senate.  I seem to remember the trigger for this is a treasury balance of -200000.

[bearcatnat 3]

Actually, the game is quite cynical.  If you run your city into bankruptcy, you get promoted to the United States Senate.  I seem to remember the trigger for this is a treasury balance of -200000.

 

Haha, that's great! So are you ever able to get that city back? Do you need to demolish it, or what?

[Temeku 0]

Actually, the game is quite cynical.  If you run your city into bankruptcy, you get promoted to the United States Senate.  I seem to remember the trigger for this is a treasury balance of -200000.

 

This is now one of my favorite posts I have ever seen on any forum. 

[Compdude787 916]

I never got to the point where I was told to run for Senator. I would always obliterate my city when I got down to $0. I never even went into a deficit like that.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I never got to the point where I was told to run for Senator. I would always obliterate my city when I got down to $0. I never even went into a deficit like that.

I didn't think conservatives suicided so easily.

[Compdude787 916]

 

I never got to the point where I was told to run for Senator. I would always obliterate my city when I got down to $0. I never even went into a deficit like that.

I didn't think conservatives suicided so easily.

 

No, it's been over three years since I last obliterated a city. I didn't start leaning towards the right politically until 2010, and I didn't play SC4 much at that point because not making money caused me to completely lose interest in the game. Prior to this year, the last time I'd played SC4 was in late-2011.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, I hope you've solved your money problem with the game.  It is really not hard to do that once you realize that the only source of income is taxes and residential taxes make up the lion's share at the start.

 

Even with supplying all municipal amenities, I usually get a positive cash flow somewhere around the thousand simoleans point which happens rather quickly.  Maybe my technique of hand placing all lots has something to do with it, as I very carefully avoid unwanted mansions.  I also have a collection of free health service buildings.

[bearcatnat 3]

I actually dipped into the red in my city last night. I experienced that problem of too many rich people, then I started growing too fast. Everything was out of whack and I got down to -$2000. I managed to fix things by cutting back on all services as much as possible without causing disasters or a mass exodus of Sims, so that my monthly income was +$1500. Then I set the game to Cheetah. I very quickly got back up to $47,000 and now my city is on the upswing. *Whew* Senate candidacy narrowly averted!

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

I now very badly want to see a screenshot of the "Get out" message

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I've never seen that message myself... I'd also like to see a screenshot.

 

I actually dipped into the red in my city last night. I experienced that problem of too many rich people, then I started growing too fast. Everything was out of whack and I got down to -$2000.

Yeah, what you describe is just the thing that tends to cause a negative balance - if development goes too fast and something starts to get thrown out of balance, things can suddenly go downhill. After so many years it never ceases to amaze me how much SimCity teaches you the importance of balance and patience - choose the right amount of everything, don't rush, wait for things to take effect, don't lose your temper, find rewards in seemingly little things, learn to read the signs and make carefully weighed adjustments, don't rock the boat too much, and you will eventually build a temple out of a million tiny stones. It's kinda soothing really.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Amen.  Aesop's fable of the Tortoise and the Hare is true more often than people think.  SimCity 4 allows you to rush to your destruction or to slowly, steadily build a beautiful city. 

 

Patience, caution, and above all remember

"There is no royal road to learning"

-- Archimedes to Philip of Macedon on the training of his son Alexander.

[Sabretooth78 808]

I remember the same learning curve, but in SC2k instead (I never had a problem after that with any of the SC series).  I must have failed with 10 cities until I started one, went into a little debt with loans (it was more necessary in SC2k absent cheating) but lo and behold the city turned a corner, started to profit and paid off the loans.  I don't remember any other detail about it, nor do I still have the city, but I remember the situation quite well.

 

 

I now very badly want to see a screenshot of the "Get out" message

It's not very difficult as you can imagine.  I actually did it fairly recently quite by accident.  I was sandboxing on cheetah trying to figure something out (that must not have required cash) and before I knew it I wasn't sandboxing anymore.  

 

 

This particular time, I "achieved" it by cheating moolah -200001 and running cheetah for a month. 

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Bwahahahaha!  And I thought the Moose was pulling our leg.  Something about 2003-era-Maxis's excessively dry humor makes this game really special.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Nah, I knew it was legit, but I've never seen it. Precious! And yes, Maxis' humour is wonderful. The query sound of California Plaza alone...