I'm either in over my head or I'm making things harder than they seem

[Bdub01 201]

Ok I'm looking to buy a computer in the 250-350 dollar range (US). I quite frankly want to buy one just to play sc4. Of course I'll use it for a few other things but sc4 is my main motivation. I'm not all that computer smart so I was wondering what would be the best type of computer to get to have the best sc4 experience in my price range? Would a laptop work or a desk top be better, I just don't know? Also how much memory and whatnot would be needed. I have a flash drive that has my plugins. I have I think round 2gigs of plugins. Any help would be appreciated before I buy. Thx!!!

[cogeo 960]

I recently replied to a very similar post. See my answer

 

It could have cost even less if I hadn't put a DVD-RW and a graphics card. You can save some money if you can reuse components from the old one. Eg consider not getting a new DVD-RW, and use the old one. It's gonna be used less and less anyway. And if you can reuse the case (you should), the PSU or even any disk(s), you can save a lot. I couldn't reuse anything from my oldie, cause the mobo and disks had... IDE interface (yes!  ), the PSU was small and inefficient/noisy, and the case worn (and of that old beige colour of course, and no USB and headphone/mic sockets at the front or up side).

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Depends on whether you are going to self-build or not.  In any case, go with a desktop.  Generally laptop components have increased sales margins simply because they say 'laptop'.  If you can reuse components you have now, you must take cogeo's advice and do so. 

 

The last machine I bought (this one) has a new box of tricks with a new disk and a new DVD-RW because my old one was dead.  It cost me $500 Canadian without any software.  If you purchase a system with Windoze you will be paying about a $200 OEM license fee to MS, which is one of the reasons not to use Windoze at all.

 

Let's see, what did I keep from my old machine:

printer

2 external HDDs

scanner

monitor

speakers

headset

webcam

keyboard and mouse

 

All of the above are USB cable connected.  I don't believe in wireless anything because the signals are all broadcast and can be intercepted.  I am an old security maven among other things, and if there is anything in this world that is insecure it is WiFi and the Internet because both involve broadcast media.  Surely you don't believe that a WiFi router is secure because it has a password?  Crackable in about five minutes if someone really wants to.

 

My present system is not particularly secure.  For one thing, the main box is not tempest tested, and I am sure it radiates.  I just don't have anything that would interest anyone stored on it.

[Robotica 36]

If you want a pc to just play SC4 with, then don't buy a laptop because you won't be able to really customize it like you want. You will also end up paying more for a laptop anyways. And, what are you computers current specs? You could probably just reuse a lot of the same parts. I recently build a new beast of a computer to play high end games on, and to be honest SC4 ran just the same on my previous computer as it does now, so I really dont think you need much to max out sc4. Your best bet would be to just buy a new motherboard, cpu and maybe a gpu though I am not really sure that a gpu would make a difference for SC4. Some additional ram would be good, but if your at like 4gb of ram now then you probably wont see a big difference with more.

[Prophet42 1,503]

RAM seems to be the critical thing with SC4.  I would suggest whatever you get, you have at least 2-4 GB RAM.  If you go any higher, you will have to apply the 4GB patch to the SC4 exe file (which is not a big deal).

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

SC4 is a 32-bit program.  On a 64-bit machine with at least 4GB, applying the NAM patch will give you a 3GB area to play in.  More memory will not do anything for this program.

 

People confuse the size of their plugins folder with memory.  The plugins folder is in storage, not memory. Any custom content must fit within the tables allocated for SC4 along with the program text, and its data space.  Custom content is reduced to a few words in tables and a pointer to the on-disk models.  Notice that when the game is building a new POV it has to refer to the Plugins files to get the new images.  Each lot in storage has 20 images: four for the four orthogonal directions for each of the five POVs.  This is why the files are so large, and they are not loaded into memory except for the one currently in use.  So it doesn't matter much except for speed considerations if your Plugin directory is 100 GB, provided there are no conflicts and the resulting tables will fit in the allocated memory.  A lot is not in memory if it is not in the current city.

 

Desktops are better than laptops not only because they are cheaper, but they are better cooled.  SC4 takes any core to 100% with the concomitant heating up of the chip.  The bigger plenum in a desktop tower is much better thermodynamically than the tiny case of a laptop, which seem to be getting thinner and thinner.  Laptops are not gaming machines.  It doesn't matter how much pizazz you have in them, they heat up and just either blow the chipset or slow down to cool off.

 

Save yourself around $500 and get a desktop.

[Tommy_H 3]

The deciding factor whether desktop or laptop/mobile should be only the transportation and mobility question for you. Even on an older laptop this game will run fine. Having said that for USD 350 you will not get a good laptop but one that will be pretty slow otherwise. So if mobility is not the issue for you, do go with a desktop.

 

Desktop is also much more ergonomical to sit at and operate: keyboard, mouse, monitor... really depends on your need for mobility, or not.

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

I would disagree with Robotica, I'd say a graphics card (GPU) is a must if u intend to use HD textures at all, software rendering mode will have a fit if u try to use these

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I guess Robotica meant that a separate, discrete graphics card may not be required if your CPU comes with an integrated graphics core (GPU). While a typical integrated GPU is less powerful than most discrete graphics solutions from lower mid-range onwards, it should be perfectly enough to handle SC4 with it's pre-rendered 2D graphics where next to nothing is calculated in real time. I know my old PC with a Geforce 4 Ti4200 didn't have the slightest problem running SC4 (RAM, a slow CPU, and a slow hard drive were more problematic). If that old clunker of a graphics card manages to run SC4 just fine (in hardware, of course), then a current integrated graphics solution will also run SC4 without problems - and should be able to do so in hardware. Maybe we have some people here who run SC4 on a CPU with integrated GPU who can share their experience?

[zimmie 521]

Not even taking into account using HD content, just the general quality of the standard graphics are much less appealing to look at in software mode with an integrated GPU.

 

I used to have an old old machine I'd run SC4 on that had an old GeForce 6200 dedicated card that produced much better graphics and was capable of hardware mode and HD content. Loading times were horrendous and gameplay could get slow on very large cities because it of the old single core cpu but the graphics were better.

 

I am using a new core i7 with an integrated intel HD 4600 GPU and although it's lightening quick in loading times and gameplay compared to that old machine - I can't run in hardware mode without getting major glitches and in software mode it doesn't look all that great compared to the old machine with the dedicated old graphics card.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

@zimmie:  You'd be surprised what a different GPU would make.  You need one that is not built for low price, but one that is built for high performance.  The Intel chips that have been out lately are not designed to respond properly to some of the legacy programs that are around.

[zimmie 521]

No not surprised. I bought the new pc without so I could choose my own to add.  I've always had dedicated hand picked video cards in my pc's, it's the integrated GPU's that I am naïve about.

 

With just a $250 - $350 budget for his pc, well I'd just get one of those value video cards like at Newegg or something for $30 bucks... sure beats the integrated stuff.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Really depends on the chip.  I have an AMD RS780 that functions quite well for SC4 Deluxe.  Works fine for Banished as well.

 

Note: This chip is not supported by AMD on this version of the Linux kernel.  Instead is it supported using Gallium 0.4 (a beta, but it works).  The one drag on most integrated chips is that they use a chunk of the system's RAM instead of having their own.  This one uses half a gigabyte.

[Tommy_H 3]

With just a $250 - $350 budget for his pc, well I'd just get one of those value video cards like at Newegg or something for $30 bucks... sure beats the integrated stuff.

 

Yes, this.

 

SC4 really only needs a card that was up to date say around 2005 or so, which is like the stone age. 

 

If you want to go really cheap, look for something used on Ebay. Make sure it actually fits in the available slot in the PC. Today's standard is PCI but some maybe 7 years or so ago it was still AGP (IIRC). But you should not get such an old PC to start with, I suppose..

 

Anyways, do ask the Ebay seller if it the card is working fine and if it's not overclocked via some BIOS mod that you may be unable to revert to normal clocking. Best to just keep your hands off if it was overclocked by the user, just to be safe.

 

If in doubt consult with a computer savvy friend what fits in your PC and for what purpose you want it. Graphics cards. especially older models can have the nasty habit of using quite a significant amount of power, depending very much on the model and main chip used. If you care about these things, do inform yourself a little bit about it. The internet is full of such info (test reviews).

 

But an up-to-date value card is what I would get, provided it fits the slot in your PC. Most hassle-free option.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

You have to be really careful with eBay.  A lot of junk changes hands.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Not even taking into account using HD content, just the general quality of the standard graphics are much less appealing to look at in software mode with an integrated GPU.

I am using a new core i7 with an integrated intel HD 4600 GPU and although it's lightening quick in loading times and gameplay compared to that old machine - I can't run in hardware mode without getting major glitches and in software mode it doesn't look all that great compared to the old machine with the dedicated old graphics card.

So I guess that means that hardware mode is generally possible with a built-in GPU. Otherwise, you wouldn't even have the option of selecting hardware render. There may be a driver problem, though, that causes the glitches you mention. I read in another thread that someone had to step back to an Intel GPU driver that was released prior to Windows 8.1, for example.

 

When adding an old graphics adapter to a new system, you had better make absolutely sure that the new mainboard still supports the required slot. Most modern mainboards have PCI-E slots in two different lengths - up to three long ones with 4-12 PCI-E lanes each, and several short ones with 1 lane each. There are mainboards with old PCI slots as well. However, you will not be able to use any graphics card that relies on an AGP slot. An AGP slot is no longer present on recent mainboards because it used to be a dedicated graphics slot that has now been superseded by PCI-E, whereas the old PCI slot was an all-purpose slot, and many old periphery cards (WLAN cards, sound cards, network adapters, TV cards, and so forth) are still in wide use and don't need the additional speed that PCI-E offers.

 

This means you are limited to use either fairly recent PCI-E cards (you can choose a budget model) or to extremely old PCI cards, but the AGP cards used inbetween are not an option.

[zimmie 521]

yes, as I said, I run in hardware mode but with some glitches. I'm positive it's capable and that's its a driver/backward compatibility issue. I've tried a couple different updates and no luck so far. And at zoom level one everything looks fine, but even then the old dedicated card had superior graphics and for on the cheap. That's why I said that is the way that I would go. Just a suggestion imo. 

 

As far as the slot type, maybe I was being confusing.. I wasn't suggesting buying a legacy agp card, just a value card for whatever type of slot he ends up with. If he gets a system that old then a value agp card probably is going to cost him more like $50 bucks because of the scarcity.