The Portland & Oregon BAT Team, Chapter 1

[Jasoncw 11,949]

Why does it need to be split up again?  If it's to get part of it overhanging, you can edit this property in one of the files to trick the game into thinking the building is smaller.  I forgot exactly what it was, but maybe someone passing by here will remember.

But either way, it looks like you're having an LOD issue on the back of the lot.  The tips of the cars got cut off on the third screenshot.

[Andreas Roth 622]

Hmm, I think you should try to fit the whole structure onto the lot so it doesn't overhang, then you'll also avoid some of the problems that show up. I take it that the whole building, including paths and parking lot is one model? Then move the building and the parking lot at the front a bit inwards the lot. It will reduce the space next to the dumpsters a bit, but IMO, that's better than blocking the sidewalk with a parking lot. The white-striped "no parking" areas around the entrance could be refined a bit, since the diagonal lines cause some bad antialiasing effects. Also, add some lampposts around the parking lot, since it's a bit dark at night. The nightlighting itself looks great, though. It fits in so well with the Maxis buildings of that theme - it's a shame that they dropped the whole idea of adding some "Route 66 landmarks", like they originally planned for the expansion pack.

@Jason: After having a closer look, I think that's not a LOD problem, but it's the highway that isn't on the same height as the lot, but slightly higher, causing a green "retaining wall".

[Andreas Roth 622]

Yeah, great, another page flip bug...

[SimFox 804]

Hm... something very silly is goin' on here...

The lot is bated, am I right? why then the light stops like that??

[mightygoose 92]

well it could be a couple of things.... either the unlit bits are not included in the lights effect (if you notice the same is happening at the far end of the structure too), your lights may have a square cone, and it may just exactly line up with the concrete, but i feel this latter answer is doubtful, considering there is light spill onto the raised concrete down and left of your artrow on the main structure, if its not either of these howver i am at a loss,

[sparkythepenguin 90]

I'm going to pull an all-niter (actually all-dayer with my current schedule) on this project. I don't want to wait til I have more progress to respond, as I want to answer your questions or explain things further.

@Jason: The lot has to have things separate because if the cars and other curbs (and a ground plane which is likely coming back) highlighted upon selecting the lot, it'd look weird. Someone upthread wanted just the building to highlight and I'm trying my best to make that happen. Might not due to lighting issues...

The overhang is not something I intended. It will be fixed. Going to work on texturing too, see below.

@Andreas: The model is broken up into 3 props plus the main building.

 Will look into adding some lamp posts somewhere around the lot. Oh, and I may translate this lot into German for you. Might not say what the English versions say, but will say enough I hope. May need some help. Would Waddles be considered an Imbiss in Germany?

I am going to revise the diagonal stripes into something better. They look terrible to me. Was on my to-do list earlier but got caught up trying to figure out how to prop things out.

I'm working on fixing that problem with the extra space in back. In real life, there is a narrow walkway back there. Just enough to slip in a dumpster. (and the space between the Freeway and lot in real life has a bike path/sidewalk).

And you're right, the "LOD issue" is just the lot cutting into the ground.

@Simfox and Mightygoose: The lighting issue is due to the building being modded into the lot as the main building model. Everything else is propped in. Where the light stops is where the building's model ends. The rest of the sidewalk is propped in.

I think a groundplane may be needed, as the light spills off the sidewalks and onto the pavement. I am going to try adding the sidewalk into the building model and see what that does.

I guess its an issue of whether I want the lights to look realistic or only the building highlights when selected. Which is most important to everyone here? Chime in please.

I am also going to try for a new texture for the roof and red walls. Jason's right the present ones have to go.

I went through the Maxis-made building with SCTool, and after eliminating duplicates and weeding out undesirable options, I have narrowed the texture I want the red walls to be to 3 choices:

So which one looks best? I'm leaning toward #3. The others are pretty close too.

[brtim2 11]

I like number 1 the best.

In regards to the light spilling out, why not just render a couple of variations of the scene? The first would be the building itself. Next, the sidewalks with lights in the same position and see through poles to still create shadows and then another of this same scene but with only the parking lot. This way the light is across all three, but with the building being a building and the sidewalks and the parking lot/ground plane being props.

If you center everything and render in pieces, they should all line up in the LE and look like they were there, together, the entire time. This way you can also render the row of cars in the center with light spilling on to them from that long walkway. You might have to render the curbs and planters as separate entities, but if you already know where they are going, it's not as bad as it may seem

[kd5rax 82]

it seems like it would be less troublesome to just have it all in one scene... I like the looks of 3, but I think the building style dictates 1 or 2... Probably 2, its a commercial lot that would be trying to draw attention to itself with an outrageous yet none revolting color.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

The word "Imbiss" would be quite appropriate, yes.

[screamingman12 30]

I'm going to re-model the type four and see what it does, I really have no idea what's going on.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

Screamingman12: Good luck getting it to work...

Still working on the lighting/LOD conundrum. I have a plan that will work so long as the LODs behave themselves....

I'm just going to make the building one model, and the rest a prop. I've also positioned copies of the original omni lights on the section to be the prop and it will work because I included the support timbers in the ground plane model. I made custom LODs, but they didn't work as I planned. Going to try something else that may work later. Do LODs have to be as tall, wide, and long as the model? If there's a way around that, I'm game for it.

Been awake too long and I'm getting carpol tunnel syndrome. That's usually a clue to get some sleep. Sorry I have no screens to show. Been busy experimenting on the lot.

Once that's fixed, it's smooth sailing through the other stuff! I'll show you all more once I'm more rested, k?

[Sim shady 12]

well good luck and i hope you enjoy all the nonsleep. I personally feel like an insomniac where i will go for 2-3 days being unable to sleep (incredibly frustrating)...Thank god for sleeping medicine. Carpal tunnel syndrome...ick lets hope that goes away fast.

[Andreas Roth 622]

These days, "Imbiss" sounds somewhat old-fashioned, since everyone tries to use English words due to the current hype of being "trendy", but it's appropriate indeed, I'd say. Oh, and please get some sleep before torturing yourself - we certainly can wait a bit longer.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

OK... after almost 48 hours and a lot of useless models exported, I have come to the conclusion that just rendering the entire thing in one shot would be best. I tried a lot of things, trust me, but either there'd be LOD, shadow, or lighting issues. Its probably worth having the whole nine yards highlight when queried-its by far not the worst option I have.

So now thats out of the way and I can concentrate on finalizing the textures. A good thing about having a ground plane is that I can now texture in the parking lot lines.

Andreas: So saying that Waddles is a "Diner" would be better auf Deutsch? Or maybe it is "der (or die or das) Dirve-In"? Is the use of English much more widespread all over Germany or just a fad where you live? I've seen a lot of loan words but I guess new ones get pulled over all the time. I notice that you and T_wrecks tend to exclusively use English here on ST. You guys have great English skills btw. I hope sometime my German will be up to par.

By the way, I may end up living in Germany for a college term if the stars align right. It'll be at in at least 2 years. We should totally meet up if I get over there. I'll probably be somewhere in Baden-Wurtenburg. I think Oregon and B-W are sister states or something. PSU has some sort of working exchange with a university there.  But if I can choose, I'll go to Hannover, Leipzig, or Berlin.

Sim Shady: I know what that's like! I had that problem a couple years ago, then gravitated to sleeping more than being awake. No wonder when spy agencies interrogate people they mess with the target's sleeping schedule. If you don't sleep well or normally, it really screws you up! I take meds too to help with that. I just can't take the higher doses unless I'm in more of an insomniac mood. If not, then I have to kiss a whole day good-bye. It's no wonder I'm almost 30, but an undergraduate sophmore in university. At least things are a bit more manageable now.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

Good news everybody! (yeah I like Futurama!)

With the question of LODs solved, I have moved along and retextured and added some lighting posts around the parking lot. There are some nitpicks that I have with this, but nothing that can't be easily fixed. Still we are REALLY close to this moving into the modding phase!

So right now I'm going to have to ask for the usual texture review. Lay it on me people! Bring it on! hahaha.

Here are some day shots for the newest render:

And here are the newest nite shots:

(I don't like how the light hits behind the "EAT" and "AT" signs here. Going to correct that in the next run through...

Enjoy! Going to get caught up on some Wikipedia articles I've been meaning to create...

[Sim shady 12]

Can not wait for the new seasons of Futurama Waddles is looking good. Very good.

[Andreas Roth 622]

Looking very good, but there seem to be a few glitches with the nightlighting around the lampposts. I marked the areas in question in red; it looks like the shadows of cars, bushes and similar stuff are just too large and cut "holes" in the stream of light.

Regarding the German names: The adoption of English words is a phenomenon that occurs everywhere in Germany. Of course there are local differences when it comes to certain words, but all fast food chains name their drive-in counter "Drive-In", since there is not really a proper German word for this. "Waddle's Drive-In-Restaurant" or "Waddle's Schnellimbiss" are probably the best names if you want to provide a German name for the lot.

It's also interesting to hear that you plan to do some studies at a German university. I live in Rheinland-Pfalz (Rhineland-Palatinate), which is the north-western neighbor state to Baden-Württemberg. Depending on which university is the partner facility to your uni, it's probably only a two-hour drive from here.

EDIT: And it's "Good news, everyone!" (I also like Futurama a lot. )

[sparkythepenguin 90]

OK then, work contuinues to progress. Andreas, I have taken a look at those lights and I think I fixed it:

What I did was take the parking lights and moved them further up. Then I consolidated the two lights under the sidewalk awning at the end, and centered the single light and raised it. I also went and brightened up the neon signs a little and got rid of the light shining on the walls.

Oh, and I have all ready made custom menu icons plus a custom menu window.

Don't worry, I've worked on refining the graphics in that query window all day today. I think it'll look better when I reprogram the UI dat.

The lot is doind a bit of the overlap thing, and it's (big suprise!) a LOD error. Gotta re-center the lot and export again. I hope it is OK. There's two parking lot textures that need work. No big deal. Other than those concerns, and working on a German language version, I think this'll be up on the STEX by Friday.

Any further changes?  Lights? Textures? I hope to get to modding the lot stats (CS/Plop/LM attributes) by Wendsday.

[SimFox 804]

!!!!

You really have made a great job with it! The progress is so significant!

[gt6282 3]

wow.. That is good..

[Andreas Roth 622]

The parking lot lamps are probably a tad bright, but it's not a big deal. If you're going to re-render it anyway, you could also fix the white parking lot line right below the main entrance on the last pic - it's shorter than the others! Apart from that, it looks fantastic! Nice work on the query as well.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

OK then...

I turned down the parking lights about a bit. I tried several combos that were either too bright or too dim. At about 1.6 intensity, I think I got it right...

And I got rid of that short parking stripe. I figured it was so close to the curb that they wouldn't bother wasting paint on it. The last years of Waddles were very tough and anywhere they could save money, they did. Towards the end, the dining room was only open for breakfast, and if you wanted anything later, you had to be over 21 to go in the Teakwood Lounge. The cool thing was that they still served a smaller lunch and dinner menu in the bar, and a lot of good stuff was cheap at Happy Hour.

[Sim shady 12]

Amazing job on Waddles

[LivingInThePast 364]

Good job on Waddles.

I really want to start on Mall 205, and I'd like to do the Classic version, but there is no information anywhere.

I'm so ashamed of my recent behavior but I'd like someone to do a basic LOT of Mall 205, to scale and having an outline where the Mall should go, as I want to start on scale.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

Hmmm.. I only do stuff by eye, but Bixel does it by scale and might be able to help. He's pretty busy with Hong Kong stuff though.

So shall I export Waddle's now?

[SimFox 804]

Living in the Past so what exactly do you want?? To start on scale or someone else to start??

Why are you so bent on making that Mall?

One place where you could get pretty accurate info on overall size is Google earth.

it is roughly 225 x 300m and not particularly interesting structure... just 3 boxes...

here is a pic:

[LivingInThePast 364]

Like I said, I have most of the pictures (though some rear pictures and a clearer picture of Home Depot would be nice). The mall struck a chord with me as being an old mall (it was built in 1970) and managed to survive throughout the years, even as the large Clackamas Town Center opened in 1981. It had Montgomery Ward, White Front (sort of a precursor to Target), and Troutman's Emporium (a small regional department store). After White Front closed, it became new mall space. The mall was also completely dark, lit by only the store signs and an occasional flourescent light. White Front's location had a movie theater (later it became second-run, did not have an interior entrance), a grocery store, and Rite-Aid. It also had waterslides inside the mall which were later sued out of business. Payless Drug later took over the grocery store space. In 1996, the mall even got an addition planned, it would get a food court and a large movie theater. It never happened. The mall slowly unraveled throughout the early 2000s. Emporium and Wards both closed. Payless Drug became Rite-Aid and they both pulled out of the mall. The theater closed. With no anchors, a few stores soldiered on. In 2001 was acquired and thus begun a large renovation plan. The new plan was to put "big box" stores in. Target came into the Wards space. Bed Bath & Beyond filled in old storefronts. 24 Hour Fitness took much of the former White Front space. The Home Depot took up Emporium's space and then some. What makes this mall cool is...not the architecture, not the stores, but the fact that the mall opened early, went through high and low times, and emerged with unusual anchors. Tell me if you ever see a Home Depot with an interior entrance:

The reason I want to do this is because it seems fairly easy, interesting, and its not too big. I mean, virtually everyone (and I say virtually, some really are willing to think different) wants some random tower/megamall/junk for their CJ, and this is not really none of that. Yes, I did have a blowup when some people misinterpreted, but now people are making fun of me when I want to start one of my first BATs. That's not really fair. And even if I did know the dimensions of the building and lot, how do I make it scale to SimCity? Look, I only want to do the main building. Give me a break.

[Sim shady 12]

I wish you luck livinginthepast. Fascinating history for a mall, and yea i have never seen a Home Depot like that before Hopefully you can finally get some close up pictures.

[Andreas Roth 622]

@Sparky: Yeah, I figured they wanted to save some bucks on the paint, hence the short stripe at the parking lot. Anyway, the model looks awesome, so go ahead and render this beauty already!

[sparkythepenguin 90]

Just a quick status update:

I have assembled the Waddle's lots and finished modding. Everything works well for the English versions. I have sent it off to Andreas for beta testing on the German versions, as I do not have a copy of the German SC4, and am not able to see if what I did worked! I have to give a big shout-out to Andreas for helping me figure out how to make a mulitlingual lot, especially for explaining how to do it very simply so I could understand what to do. Please thank Andreas for all his help.

Now to relax, maybe get some work done on Jackson Tower, and enjoy the weekend.  It may be parrrrty time tonite! Don't know yet though...