NAM: Development

[halo_lover 1]

Date: 5/30/2005 7:53:33 AM
Author: Shadow_Assassin

At this point in time, the next version will see the integration of the following;

NAM & its updated items

Ground Light Rail Mod

Avenue Turning Lane Project

Road Roundabouts

quote>


Hmm, will they still be kept seperate from the NAM, so we can have optional components and such?

quote>

I hope they don't, for maximum compatibility.

[Tropod 144]

Date: 5/30/2005 7:53:33 AM
Author: Shadow_Assassin

At this point in time, the next version will see the integration of the following;

NAM & its updated items
Ground Light Rail Mod
Avenue Turning Lane Project
Road Roundabouts

quote>

Hmm, will they still be kept seperate from the NAM, so we can have optional components and such?

quote>

Any newer items that don't make it in the next verion of the NAM, that make use of certain game system files, will need to be done based off of the files contained in the next proper publicly released version of the NAM (which will effectively be a compilation of all these items).
As for optional components; when I say that the items will be integrated, they will effectively become a part of the NAM (by way of their inclusion). Being able to optionally select/Deselect (or chose or not chose) certain items, won't be practical, & let me explain why;
Three of the system game files can cover & include references to any of the networks. This is in part, what complicates things if we wanted to have some things optional. It would require a substantial amount of time & effort to try & co-ordinate; would have to be done each & every single release version; & the installation of the mod overall would become a lot more complicated for the end-user than it already is.
This does not however prevent the further production of newer (optional) items, based on these system files, that Developers undertake outside of the main core NAM threads (like ATL thread, GLR thread, roundabouts thread etc).
Perhaps once the next version of the NAM is released people will have a better understanding of this.

[Tropod 144]

EDIT: section currently no longer applicable. End Edit

 

 

Reporting Bugs;
When reporting a bug of any sort, please make sure it is indeed a bug, & not something already covered for/by in the documentation. We do not want to have to spend time fixing users-ends of installation problems. There's more than plenty enough info in the docs for this.

Posting bugs: General;
When posting an actual bug, please make sure you include a picture (800x600 max). Make sure you also include the orientation of the game (North/South/East/West), preferably by including the games' Orientation Arrow. Also please include what version of SC4 you have (including whether it's Updated or not), & whether it is Left-Hand Version or Right-Hand version. Please also include if you're using a Mac or a PC.

Posting bugs: OneWayRoad & Avenue PuzzlePieces: Rail Networks;
Please, before posting a bug for these make sure you've read the docs first, as there has been a change with how they're being handled.

If you are not sure about something, then PM myself or one of the NAM Developers, or post in the General Discussion Thread (preferably) or in one of the other applicable NAM-Related threads thanks.

[GoaSkin 2]

I am currently converting the viaduct stations by Simrolle to be usable with the NAM raised railway puzzle pieces





While the transit-switching works, no trains pass through the station. The part of the station above the avenue is a overwrapping model, so there is a puzzle piece placed on it. There are three tiles in the station which have railway props and are transit-enabled. I used the following settings for transit-enabling:


0x00000007,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00080000,0x00000000,0x00180000,0x00000000,0x00100000,0x00100000,0x00200000,0x00000000,0xEAB862B3,0x00000001,0x00000000,0x00020002,0x53263100

[GoaSkin 2]

The first railway station for NAM rail puzzle pieces seems to work now but I haven't tested it well. It can be downloaded here .

The easiest way is to build the puzzle pieces around at first and at second the station (it is 3x3, railroad in the middle; avenue-underpass is a overhanging part of the model). When the station is built, you have to drag railroad through the Lot to make it UDI-compatible (the track is not visible).

If anyone wants to test it, feel free! I will convert the other two stations in the next days and release the updated set on the STEX then.

[Tropod 144]

Well, don't know if the following should be included or not, I know some folk have asked about something like this, I'm personally inclined to think yes, despite the apparent pathing issue (nice going maxis!. What's the point of having plotting points & paths if the Pathing Engine doesn't follow them properly!). The apparent pathing issue does not occur with all configurations of this type, & other factors also come into play. There's 'apparently' suppose to be some IID range in which stuff like this is not suppose to occur (I remain rather skeptical). So don't know at this point if it's fixable or not (personally, I doubt it). One other thing I've noticed, is that running power lines directly over these tiles (in a parallel overlapping fashion), seems to prevent the flow of power (I've only noticed this in one case thus far).

I'm intent on doing RailxRail + crossing under highway though, don't foresee how they'd cause any problems. I'm also looking at doing something similar for ElevatedRail & MonoRail over GroundHighway.

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Highway_Road+Intersection_1.JPG align=baseline>

 

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Highway_Road+Intersection_2.JPG align=baseline>

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Highway_RoadTIntersection_1.JPG align=baseline>

 

 

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, I personally don't care if cars can magically jump on and off of highways like that. Besides, we've seen the trip query tool reveal stranger things.....

[Tropod 144]

EDIT: File has been superseded.NAM_NewJunctions_TempTestingFile_061205.zip

fficeffice />

The above URL contains a NAM_TempTestingFile. This file contains about 70 new junction types that were previously not possible. There is a ReadMe file that contains a list of these new junction types. It's not 100% finished, so it may contain some pathing/graphical issues. If you find a pathing issue, please post the problem (except in the case of Road, Street, OneWayRoad Junctions that are underneath ElevatedHighways ~ see my previous post above with regards to these sorts of junctions).

Just as an example;

ElevatedRail + Junction, Diagonal Avenue

(this example is a little extreme, but hopefully it gives some idea as to some of the newer junction setups possible)

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//LightRail+Junction,AvenueDiagonal.JPG align=baseline>

[Andreas Roth 607]

That's some great news, Tropod, it will enhance the creation of dense city centers quite well!

[Ryan B 35]

Tropod - this is great!  I've downloaded the new file, and I'll report back on any bugs I find (save for the ones you told us to ignore).

Great work!

[cogeo 960]

Hi all,

I would like to post a couple of questions. I need your help for some lots I'm currently developing (and I want to make them NAM-compatible)

1) Is 0x296678F7,0xA966883F,0x55267100 the pathing file used for the ped-malls? Is it the only one?

2) What are the TGI IDs of the textures for a straight 1x1 stretch of road/street/oneway/avenues. Do they contain the sidewalk pavement as well? If not  are there any special textures that do? Are there any special textures for low/med/high-wealth roads? And are all the above overrides of the original (this means that the same TGI IDs are used, of course).

 

I wish I werr able to answer these questions myself, but this looks like searching a needle in a haystack, and as some people have already done this research I think it's apropriate to ask for their help.

 

Please reply

[GoaSkin 2]

Just for information:

ArkenbergeJoe is still working on a rail Y-stack based on the avenue Y-stack




It is still functional but he has to adjust the rail textures.

[ardecila 124]

Wow! That looks cool, GoaSkin!

Nice job, AkenbergerJoe!

Any plans to make one like the real Gleisdrieck, for Rail Puzzle Pieces?

[GoaSkin 2]

My plans are only to create puzzle pieces based on existing models with new textures, paths and settings. I cannot run any software to create S3D files.

[Tropod 144]

@cogeo;
1. 0x55267100 2;
Street: 0x05004bWZ
Road: 0x00004bWZ
OneWayRoad: 0x09004bWZ
Avenue: 0x040061WZ
W = Wealth level.
Z = Zoom level.
This should answer you question.


GoaSkin;
I would be interested in seeing the Pathing aspect for that. I suspect that the paths would be jumping, not that there would be much that could be done about it though. Looks good though what's showing.

[GoaSkin 2]

ArkenbergeJoe avoided coordinate points on positions where one path goes over another.

[Tropod 144]

NAM_NewJunctions_TempTestingFile_061405.zip

Changes from previous file:

Changes involve mostly graphical adjustments/fixes. All tiles, except tiles involving groundhighway, should now have proper shadows. No path (files) changes have been made at all. A lot of unnecessary Textures have also been removed (hence the reduction in file size). If you spot a problem, don't hesitate to post it.

 

 

 

Onto something else;

I'd thought above making some more overpasses between ElevatedRail & MonoRail, & realised it would be much easier, efficient & better in-game, if intersections (not overpasses) for them were done instead. Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. That way more of them could be done & the space they take up would be less, not to mention not needing as many files overall. However...... 

In making a mock-up ElevatedRail x MonoRail intersection, like the following pictures, an issue arose. Problem is, that the MonoRail network uses Models for all its tiles, whereas ElevatedRail network effectively uses a flat texture (or flat model with a texture. The side railing is different). So as you can see by the pic, it poses a little problem graphically. If someone were to come up with a way to graphically have them blend then this, plus other variety of intersections involving the two networks, would work.

 

 

This is just a close up.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//LightRailxMonoRail_CloseUp.JPG align=baseline>

 

Those of you wondering about the existing ElevatedRail over MonoRail overpass; it would still exist & function. Some minor adjustments would just have to be made to the items coding.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Date: 6/14/2005 9:29:02 AM Author: Tropod

;

I'd thought above making some more overpasses between ElevatedRail & MonoRail, & realised it would be much easier, efficient & better in-game, if intersections (not overpasses) for them were done instead. Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. That way more of them could be done & the space they take up would be less, not to mention not needing as many files overall.

quote>

 

Well, interesting idea, indeed. However, while it may work technically without any problems, I'm not too fond of the idea - crossing two different rail-based networks with different speeds (assuming the el-rail can go maybe 80 km/h and the monorail 150 km/h or more) wouldn't go well in reality. I'd prefer the overpass solution, but others may think different, of course.

[cogeo 960]

Date: 6/13/2005 9:00:34 PM Author: Tropod

This should answer you question

 

Many thanks Tropod!!!

This is exactly what I was looking for.

[sc4frk 0]

this is amazing, this is what we need and maxis should have done from the begining!!!! the transit networks were way to constricted to the rules of the game, but now, we have this!!!! great job!!!!

[scififan68 23]

Date: 6/12/2005 11:42:16 AM Author: Tropod

NAM_NewJunctions_TempTestingFile_061205.zip

fficeffice />

The above URL contains a NAM_TempTestingFile. This file contains about 70 new junction types that were previously not possible. There is a ReadMe file that contains a list of these new junction types. It's not 100% finished, so it may contain some pathing/graphical issues. If you find a pathing issue, please post the problem (except in the case of Road, Street, OneWayRoad Junctions that are underneath ElevatedHighways ~ see my previous post above with regards to these sorts of junctions).

Just as an example;

ElevatedRail + Junction, Diagonal Avenue

(this example is a little extreme, but hopefully it gives some idea as to some of the newer junction setups possible)

quote>

That link does not work no more.'); height=15 alt=Insert smilie src=https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/34.gif width=15 border=0>'); height=15 alt=Insert smilie src=https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/14.gif width=15 border=0>

[frimi2 0]

Have a exact look at this page

[smoncrie 43]

Here is a possible model for an Elevated Rail x Monorail intersection.   I have attached it to this post.

 

Edit:  The Elevated Rail Tracks bend up because the top of the Monorail tracks is higher than the usual Elevated Rail height.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//MxEL.jpg align=baseline>

I have my doubts about how realistic it is.  In the real world, the sides of the monorail cars extend below the top of the rail because they wrap round the top and sides of the rail to stay upright.  The clearance needed to let the monorail cars pass means that a level crossing is not possible, unless you use something like a drawbridge.

[Teirusu 38]

90 Degree turns for EL-highways and Ground-highways came up several times in the request thread, so I decided to throw my 2 cents into the issue.

Tropod, would it be possible create an editted version of the piece circled that has double blends for the inner three lanes and add code for it to the highway RUL files?  Or would the game just puke on it? 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//ghwy90degree.jpg align=baseline>

 

-Teirusu

[Tropod 144]

@scififan68:
usually if a file link does not work in these threads, chances are it has been superseded already or is no longer applicable. Look a few more posts down from that original post & you'll see another URL.

@smoncrie:
Thanks. I never really thought about that, the monorail wrapping around the railing. More overpasses it is then lol

@Teirusu:
there's actually prevent overrides in place for that, for both elevated & ground highways.
;prevent for adjacent/proximity 45/90 degree turn for ElevatedHighway
0x5FA07900,2,0,0x5FA07800,3,1=0,0,0,0,0,0

;prevent for adjacent/proximity 45/90 degree turns for GroundHighway

0x5FA07900,2,0,0x5FA07800,3,1=0,0,0,0,0,0

This is something I actually wanted to include when I'd changed the highways, but didn't (& still don't) have a texture/model for them at the time. I don't see why it'd cause any real problems. Would just require blend overrides for the tile in question, which I would be happy to do, if someone created the texture/model for it.

Just with the newer intersections being done;
If anyone wants to make some suggestions for newer intersections/junctions, that are along similar lines as those kind found in the NewJunctions_TempTesting_File, by all means fire away & I'll see what I can do. Some junction types though may not be possible without using overrides, which at the moment is something I'd rather not have to resort to.

On another, yet slightly related issue:
I've come across a bug I've not seen before, least it's something I don't think should be occuring considering.
The following image is without the NAM or any other network modications;

I've only briefly looked at the bug, but it seems to be related to the AllowedOverrides section in the IntersectionSolutions file. Personally, I don't think it's that big a deal in itself, but it is causing a minor problem with some other similar stuff I'm trying to do, so not sure yet what'll be done with it.
EDIT: It seems that the hierarchy of the networks is the cause of the issue here. Only networks higher up than the avenue network in the Network hierarchy are able to do this.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//AllowedOverrides__Bug_GHW_AV_001.JPG align=baseline>

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Does anybody want a model done for the highway Y-interchange? This isn't finished, as it took me an hour in Sketchup just to do the inside lanes.


[sketchUp includes a 3DS export and works on Macs, so I'll send anybody with modding experience the S3D file when its complete]

[Tropod 144]

Sure. It would be good if we had an idea on what the whole thing looked like & its size. Is this groundhighway or elevatedhighway?

EDIT: I should have asked; has the S3D model been cut into 16mx16m pieces, or is this one big single (non-cut) model?

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

For all these elevated rail over elevated highway type intersections, to me, it would seem more natural for one of the two to lower to ground level and go under the other rather than raising an already elevated network to twice its usual height. Just a thought.

[kassarc16 4]

Now no matter what network it does go for. we need to get acess for all 3 directions there. A flyover ramp and a connecting ramp.

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Will do. It's actually one entire model, though, the red sections are one single block - b/c of them being imported straight in from ilive's reader. This model, btw, is ground highway at the moment. The two red models off to the size are one standard highway tile. Right now, it seems to be 4x7, but it'll probably be at least 6x8...

Also, I have no modding experience.