MGB Lot and Mod Shack

[rsc204 21,836]

14 hours ago, junspud said:

I think it might be the texture located in the folder 'Base w16 US'.

I kinda already mention where it could be found, perhaps you missed it:

On 26/09/2020 at 7:05 PM, rsc204 said:

From Rivit's Repo Base w16 US/EU folder you should find (only) the texture 0x00AA0104, which is the Street to Road transition in US or EU design. In the Base w13 folder should be 0x09AA0104, which is the Street to OWR transition.

There is an option in GoFSH to created a set of "Numbered" helper textures. If you run the attached modified script for Rivit's TSR, it will generate such a set of textures. Then you can load the game and in zoom5/6, you will see the texture IDs (only for TSR streets in this case). If you plan to work on the TSR textures, this could potentially be a very useful resource whenever you have problems finding a specific texture, or just need to be certain you've the right ID.

14 hours ago, junspud said:

At the moment I've taken some of the texture sets for the new one-tile roundabouts with the plan of replacing the sidewalks and making it more compatible with TSR. It seems like a lot of work though, it would probably be a lot easier with Gofsh scripting, the sidewalk part anyway. Plus it might soon be included in PSS?

Some textures are easier to make than others, the problem with such a unique piece as the one-tile roundabouts, is that there is likely nothing similar to use as a template. Re-creating a texture from scratch without the resources used to make the base set and knowledge of how it was done, such a seemingly simple texture might be a lot of work. Whereas with a transition like the Road-Street, there is very little editing required, I would layer both textures and use an Alpha Mask in PS to control which pixels of each texture get kept. Then I typically make any further adjustments like blending and modifying pavement edges in a more manual fashion. I can't stress enough how keeping multi-layered source files helps if you need to go back to a texture later.

I don't know if these textures have wealthification or not, but they if I did include it in my mods, it would be part of TGN, not SWN (PSS is just the variant of SWN by the way). For that to happen, it would need to include some sort of baked-in grass. The completely modified set of Roundabout Textures I have removes any baked-in sidewalks, hence they are not included in SWN. I really don't want to duplicate textures between the two mods, but maybe I will release them separately with Maxis Grass.

In any case, none of this would include TSR variants, although I may attempt them myself, if I get round to it before Rivit has a chance too. Although mainly so I have my personal TSR mod up to date more than anything. However right now, I'm not even using Windows for my main PC, which incidentally is about to undergo a complete new system build. So don't count on it.

MakeAll and Package (TSR Numbered).txt

[Flann 1,709]

Question for you MGB:

Is the IID of an exemplar equivalent to the Exemplar ID found in the properties of that exemplar?  AFAIK these must match or it simply doesn't work (speaking wrt T21 exemplars).

Second question:  

If I want to create new exemplars in Reader, I can copy existing ones and modify them.  Then I 'Generate new Instance'.  However, the Exemplar ID stays the same.  Must I manually change this?

[junspud 1,066]

11 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I kinda already mention where it could be found, perhaps you missed it:

There is an option in GoFSH to created a set of "Numbered" helper textures. If you run the attached modified script for Rivit's TSR, it will generate such a set of textures. Then you can load the game and in zoom5/6, you will see the texture IDs (only for TSR streets in this case). If you plan to work on the TSR textures, this could potentially be a very useful resource whenever you have problems finding a specific texture, or just need to be certain you've the right ID.

Some textures are easier to make than others, the problem with such a unique piece as the one-tile roundabouts, is that there is likely nothing similar to use as a template. Re-creating a texture from scratch without the resources used to make the base set and knowledge of how it was done, such a seemingly simple texture might be a lot of work. Whereas with a transition like the Road-Street, there is very little editing required, I would layer both textures and use an Alpha Mask in PS to control which pixels of each texture get kept. Then I typically make any further adjustments like blending and modifying pavement edges in a more manual fashion. I can't stress enough how keeping multi-layered source files helps if you need to go back to a texture later.

I don't know if these textures have wealthification or not, but they if I did include it in my mods, it would be part of TGN, not SWN (PSS is just the variant of SWN by the way). For that to happen, it would need to include some sort of baked-in grass. The completely modified set of Roundabout Textures I have removes any baked-in sidewalks, hence they are not included in SWN. I really don't want to duplicate textures between the two mods, but maybe I will release them separately with Maxis Grass.

In any case, none of this would include TSR variants, although I may attempt them myself, if I get round to it before Rivit has a chance too. Although mainly so I have my personal TSR mod up to date more than anything. However right now, I'm not even using Windows for my main PC, which incidentally is about to undergo a complete new system build. So don't count on it.

MakeAll and Package (TSR Numbered).txt

Dang, my bad yeah I didn't completely register that bit as I was reading at first.

The Gofsh guide from the previous post was a revelation for me, I've managed to make a bunch of changes I've been wanting to do forever including the BSC parking lots, a simple color change makes them blend in substantially better. Looking forward to replacing a few of the pedmall textures.

Quote

There is an option in GoFSH to created a set of "Numbered" helper textures. If you run the attached modified script for Rivit's TSR, it will generate such a set of textures. Then you can load the game and in zoom5/6, you will see the texture IDs (only for TSR streets in this case).

If only a similar thing existed for props.

Something I haven't been able to figure out is where the texture for the rail piece underneath elevated networks is located so I can switch it from grass to dirt.

[rsc204 21,836]

15 hours ago, Flann said:

Is the IID of an exemplar equivalent to the Exemplar ID found in the properties of that exemplar?  AFAIK these must match or it simply doesn't work (speaking wrt T21 exemplars).

This is the case for T21s, that both the actual ID and the Property Exemplar ID need to be the same to function. But this is not always the case, some Exemplar types will always be referenced by the actual ID in use and so far as I know don't require this property at all, for example Prop Exemplars.

15 hours ago, Flann said:

If I want to create new exemplars in Reader, I can copy existing ones and modify them.  Then I 'Generate new Instance'.  However, the Exemplar ID stays the same.  Must I manually change this?

For T21s, you probably won't find Generate New Instance all that handy. T21s can use random IDs, which annoyingly Maxis did do with some of theirs. But there is no need to strive for unique IDs, because if your T21 affects a given Network Tile, you would want it to override any other T21s that also affect the same Network Tile. Thus, a logical system of IDs, based on the Network Tile is typically used.

For example, if you make a T21 for the Ortho Street section, ID 0x05004B00, that would be the starting ID for corresponding T21s. Because such textures include both MipMaps (ID's ending 0 through 4 typically), along with wealth variants (7th digit 0 through 7 typically), there will usually be plenty of IDs for each Tile.

• 0x05004B00
• 0x05004B01
• 0x05004B02
• 0x05004B03
• 0x05004B04
• 0x05004B10
• 0x05004B11
• 0x05004B12
• 0x05004B13
• 0x05004B14
• 0x05004B20  ---> Through to 0x05004B74 for a total of 40 unique IDs.

This system of IDing T21s is preferable, because texture groups for the 7th and 8th digits can use the following IDs and be unique items:

• Texture MipMap Groups (last digit):
  0-4, 5-9 & A-E
• Wealth Groups (7th digit):
  0-7 or 8-F

In other words, 0x05004B05 or 0x05004B80 could both potentially be unique textures from 0x05004B00. Whilst these systems were not used extensively, there are plenty of examples within the NAM, because it makes more efficent use of the available IDs.

Reader does not make any link between the actual ID of the Exemplar itself and the Exemplar ID property, so yes if working with Reader you have to manually update this property.

14 hours ago, junspud said:

Something I haven't been able to figure out is where the texture for the rail piece underneath elevated networks is located so I can switch it from grass to dirt.

I assume you are referring to Moonlights El-Rail mod? I do know where to find those, but I'm on a Mac right now and have no access to my repositories. I'll update here later if I get a chance, but in the Meantime, you might want to also consider installing SC4 Reader tool. This tool can load your entire Plugins Suite, meaning it will display textures on S3D models, even where those textures are in a different file from the S3Ds, Reader can't. The upshot of this, if you open the "Edit" window for an S3D, it will show you the location of the textures used upon it. So in this example, opening any DAT containing an El-Rail model, will allow you so see which DAT files contain the textures used on it.

The tool does far more than this, it's not a replacement for Reader itself, but it's a very useful accompaniment.

:Update:

So having checked the files, we should first clarify exactly what we are talking about. The is an option for the El-Rail mod that places a ground texture under every segment of El-Rail. If you don't want this, as part of the NAM 36 installer, there are options to switch it on/off. However in reality that's handled by two files:

No Ground Texture.dat and z Ground Texture.dat

The installer just decides which to install for you. If the first is installed, this ground texture will not appear, it uses Transparent Textures. If the latter is installed, or when both files are present, you get the Ground Texture. So yeah if this is what you are talking about, make sure only No Ground Texture.dat is installed, you might have to get that from the NAM 36 Installer though. This would be better than replacing the concrete with grass from a visual perspective too. Otherwise, as usual a screenshot of the piece we're talking about will help make it clear.

[junspud 1,066]

On 03/10/2020 at 12:18 PM, rsc204 said:

I assume you are referring to Moonlights El-Rail mod? I do know where to find those, but I'm on a Mac right now and have no access to my repositories. I'll update here later if I get a chance, but in the Meantime, you might want to also consider installing SC4 Reader tool. This tool can load your entire Plugins Suite, meaning it will display textures on S3D models, even where those textures are in a different file from the S3Ds, Reader can't. The upshot of this, if you open the "Edit" window for an S3D, it will show you the location of the textures used upon it. So in this example, opening any DAT containing an El-Rail model, will allow you so see which DAT files contain the textures used on it.

The tool does far more than this, it's not a replacement for Reader itself, but it's a very useful accompaniment.

:Update:

So having checked the files, we should first clarify exactly what we are talking about.

Apologies, I should have been more clear;

I meant to refer to the RRW piece crossings underneath elevated networks.  Thanks again.

[rsc204 21,836]

Such pieces don't support wealthing, therefore they can not show the dirt under the rails, which is actually a sidewalk in terms of how it works. You can manually add the background to a RRW texture, then change all affected S3D (models) to use the updated texture instead. Due to how these are made, editing the in-use texture would likely change every RRW Ortho/Diag texture, such that the dirt was there even without zoning.

[junspud 1,066]

22 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Such pieces don't support wealthing, therefore they can not show the dirt under the rails, which is actually a sidewalk in terms of how it works. You can manually add the background to a RRW texture, then change all affected S3D (models) to use the updated texture instead. Due to how these are made, editing the in-use texture would likely change every RRW Ortho/Diag texture, such that the dirt was there even without zoning.

Ohh no kidding, I did not realize that. I knew the dirt functioned like a sidewalk but not the rest of it. That actually sounds pretty cool but I can see why it wasn't included in the public release stuff lol. Thank you again sir, you're a wealth of knowledge over here.

[junspud 1,066]

Was wondering if TGN or PSS remove the OWR-arrows? Something is removing all of my OWR arrows but even when I try putting the NAM folders for single-arrows and arrow reduction (or either/or, but never the arrow elimination folder) to load very last the arrows still are removed.. Thanks.

[rsc204 21,836]

On 04/11/2020 at 1:18 AM, junspud said:

Was wondering if TGN or PSS remove the OWR-arrows?

No, that's really out of the scope of these mods, I certainly wouldn't 'stealth' include such a thing in any case.

I do use a mod I created myself to do this, it replaces the Arrow textures themselves with full transparent ones. As such, it totally removes all such markings and is a very blunt instrument. Sounds like you might have something similar installed yourself?

[junspud 1,066]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

No, that's really out of the scope of these mods, I certainly wouldn't 'stealth' include such a thing in any case.

I do use a mod I created myself to do this, it replaces the Arrow textures themselves with full transparent ones. As such, it totally removes all such markings and is a very blunt instrument. Sounds like you might have something similar installed yourself?

I don't know if it's intended, but an arrow only show up if I click a road tile on top of the OWR. The other arrows weren't working for the NWM OWR networks but now they are after some moving stuff around.

[rsc204 21,836]

When you click on a road tile (or other network piece), sometimes even from hovering over them (like FLUPs), you see instead of the regular piece, the preview. It is this behaviour you are seeing with the arrow reappearing briefly.

But if moving files around is helping, it definitely seems like you've a load order issue somewhere. But then again, if you have a mod that you don't want the function of, i.e. an arrow remover, the best solution is to remove it, rather than load everything later. It's just one of those times when you need to track the files down, it sucks but just create a load last folder z___________LOADLAST outta cover it, then move folders one at a time there and test.

[rsc204 21,836]

Small Announcement to those following, all of my TGN mods, along with a proper release of SWN are now on the STEX, . I hope to add updated SAM6 / SAM7 Bikepaths versions soon too  Edit: Now uploaded, enjoy .

[Tyberius06 12,209]

Wow, nice one Robin, thanks for the updates! Really great news especially the official release of the SWN. 

Any plans for the NGN? Not that I have time or chance to play recently (besides my ongoing projects I have a dying video card, which allows me to run tests with small amount of buildings, but can't play with my heavily plugin dependent cities.)

Thanks again, I am really glad to see you managed to release these.

- Tyberius

[rsc204 21,836]

22 minutes ago, Tyberius06 said:

Any plans for the NGN? Not that I have time or chance to play recently (besides my ongoing projects I have a dying video card, which allows me to run tests with small amount of buildings, but can't play with my heavily plugin dependent cities.)

Yes, but I have done no work whatsoever on the repository side, needed to make this function. TGN's development was completely overhauled for v2.36 and it's going to take some time before I can bridge the gap. Essentially it's the same repo, but I've scripts that switch the definition alphas around and that cut out those parts that NGN doesn't need.

Honestly, with my free time right now, I wouldn't hold your breath on that. All the files I'm releasing today have been sitting on my HDD far too long. I just decided they were better released, even if with some issues, than where they were. Ultimately, every updated version will be more compatible and better in every respect than their previous versions. The good news is, that the process of overhauling how I'm working is mostly in place now, so the only work from here on out is on the actual textures. But it's been a total killer to get here.

[Daeris 1,116]

Hi rsc204,

Thanks for your mods! I have just downloaded the UnderBridge set, which is super useful, however I just had a couple of questions. Here is my first attempt at trying to set something up:

 

Notice, when using drawpaths, there is no indication there is a path, but I'm guessing since I need to use a subway connection underneath the extenders, that would be why. When I use the traffic query tool, it seems to indicate with the arrows that it is being utilized. Does this look right to you?

Also, for some reason the street textures didn't copy over my PEG dirt streets from the SAM streets. Did I do something wrong?

[Tyberius06 12,209]

5 hours ago, Daeris said:

Hi rsc204,

Thanks for your mods! I have just downloaded the UnderBridge set, which is super useful, however I just had a couple of questions. Here is my first attempt at trying to set something up:

 

Notice, when using drawpaths, there is no indication there is a path, but I'm guessing since I need to use a subway connection underneath the extenders, that would be why. When I use the traffic query tool, it seems to indicate with the arrows that it is being utilized. Does this look right to you?

Also, for some reason the street textures didn't copy over my PEG dirt streets from the SAM streets. Did I do something wrong?

As far as I know the drawpaths showing the UDI-able driving paths on the different networks. On these lots, since as a technical game limitation it's impossible to drag a real network underneat a drawn ingame bridge, the ground level undercrossing is replaced by CAR/Bus etc-Subway TE switch on. The actual piece beneath the Bridge tile is an overhanging prop, and can not carry any paths.

As far as I can see in the readme, the different SAM options by default are not supported, that would mean a different lot for each type of SAM. While we have LOTting textures for the different SAM types, I'm not sure about how the overhanging pieces are working in this case. Adding SAM compatibility to the overhanging piece might cause IID conflict with other street related stuffs, BUT I don't know, I never checked or experienced with this, so I might be wrong. 

- Tyberius

[rsc204 21,836]

What you are seeing with Draw Paths is absolutely accurate, for these to work, cars enter the "station", i.e. the TE lot, then "switch" to travelling by Subway. On the other side they do the opposite to return to cars once more. This is the only "trick" outside of making NAM content, modders can use to make this functional, so traffic actually gets from one side of the bridge to the other. So to see the paths between the two UB lots, you must switch to subway view, but most subways do not show paths or traffic in any case. You just have to trust they are there, which should be evident by traffic using them, which only occurs when sims want to use the route in question.

SAM support is impossible, without making a unique Lot for each individual SAM network. Adding them would increase the download from 10 to 30 lots, which aside from being a lot more work, is also more space in menus. There is no technical reason why any network type, including NWM, RHW, diagonal/FAR support couldn't be made to work with this method. But I just covered the basic in-game networks for the release.

50 minutes ago, Tyberius06 said:

While we have LOTting textures for the different SAM types, I'm not sure about how the overhanging pieces are working in this case. Adding SAM compatibility to the overhanging piece might cause IID conflict with other street related stuffs

Actually as of NAM36's release of E-RRW, it's been necessary to have these textures (part of NAM) for the E-RRWxSAM crossings. So my S3D models could link to those, just as they do for the existing networks. By and large for transit textures, a "Puzzle"-based texture, i.e. darkened for use on S3Ds, should use the original ID, but changing the 8th digit to E (A-E if MipMaps are involved). This should be the case for the SAM Straight/Diagonal pieces, where present.

[Daeris 1,116]

Thank you for your replies. Even if they can't use the red brick or dirt SAM textures with the current mod release, it is an extremely useful mod! I can design around it for sure, was mostly just wanting the street texture for aesthetics of course. Thanks again!

[Kiwiwriter47 472]

This is great stuff...I wish I had design skills...I'd put IRT Low-V cars on those elevated lines.

Here's just such a train.

[rsc204 21,836]

CAM support for IRM Addon Packs - first discussed here

On 05/12/2020 at 12:04 PM, rsc204 said:

On 05/12/2020 at 12:28 AM, Daeris said:

"The lots here cover only the ones in the IRM base pack, and do not include the IRM addon lots."

Let me have a chance to look into that,

So, I finally did today and I'm thinking these Addons should work just fine with CAM as-is. The key reasons being, they are already well modded, don't take into account higher growth stages anyway and that being Mech and Out Lots, they don't tend to have too many jobs anyhow.

I'll provide an example:

So on the left are the CAMified values, on the right are the originals. I'll start first with the process used, so because these Buildings Exemplars used Invisible Props, we need to set the occupant size to correct for it. The buildings used on the lot are two of the following:

So I now have the size I need, 24x16x12m, but I can also get a visual (left) of the bounding box, to work out the filling degree. Because people don't work in the roof-space, I've gone with .3 or about 30% of this building as occupiable space. I've also doubled the width to 48, because there are two of them in use on the lots, but you could equally double the filling degree, either works really.

PIM-X gives us 10 more jobs (50% more), the stats use less power/water, pollute less and the values are quite different too. However, this particular Buildings Exemplar, is used by four lots, step two, is re-calculating the Growth Stages for them. If you are used to this process, PIM-X will let you use a value one lower or higher than it's recommendation. Whilst I did have to go one higher for each lot manually, none of the Growth Stages were out of sync with the original lots. Also, and this is why being Mechs and Outs makes CAMifying these lots less important, none of these lots use higher Growth Stages, because they are by definition not very large buildings.

So yes, if you wanted a set of matching values for CAM, some work would be necessary, but only updating 20 or so Buildings Exemplars and the matching Growth Stages for the Lots. However, on the whole, there is nothing so terrible going on as to cause any real imbalance, especially if the bulk of your Industrial is Anchor lots, which is very likely. That all said, the process isn't terribly arduous, I think I'm going to update them all anyhow, it's long overdue really given the base mod supports CAM.

[rsc204 21,836]

And now for something weird...

These are the values assigned to the same Buildings Exemplar as before, instead of doubling the width, I doubled the filling degree. Perhaps my math is off, never one of my strong points, but shouldn't both methods give the same result?

24x16x12m (4608 m³) * .6 should be equal to 48x16x12m (9216 m³) * .3

Since the value in metres cubed are doubled along with the width, a factor of .3 of it, should be identical to .6 of half that value.

No idea what's going on here, but it highlights an inconsistency in the calculated values, brought about simply by the method used. In this second scenario, we see the following changes:

• 4 less jobs (Capacity Satisfied)
• 1 less Air Pollution
• Power Consumed jumps to 8 from 2
• Water Consumed is 3 higher
• Flammability is doubled
• Max Fire Stage is 1 less
• Construction Time is 6 less
• Bulldoze Cost and Worth are both 56 less
• Building Value is 30 less

If I recall correctly, the Building Value or Worth are part of the equation to work out the taxation from the building. But it does make me wonder then which method is the correct one to use?

[rsc204 21,836]

So I just finished running the I-D package through PIM-X, but not being a CAM user, I have no way of reliably checking these. 12 lots have increased in Growth Stage, 7 have been reduced, but no values are more than 1 away from the original files. Generally speaking most of these lots I'd say have less jobs than before, but that's the figures PIM-X gave me. I did manually edit one of them, the number of jobs was a bit ridiculous, so I scaled it back. But otherwise all values are now generated by PIM-X, whether that provides a tangible difference from the originals when used with CAM, I shouldn't think it would.

I'd appreciate any CAM + IRM users who might want to use these, providing some feedback before I try to get them released properly.

IRM I-D Addon Set 1 (CAM).zip
IRM I-M Addon Set 1 (CAM).zip

[junspud 1,066]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:52 PM, rsc204 said:

When you click on a road tile (or other network piece), sometimes even from hovering over them (like FLUPs), you see instead of the regular piece, the preview. It is this behaviour you are seeing with the arrow reappearing briefly.

But if moving files around is helping, it definitely seems like you've a load order issue somewhere. But then again, if you have a mod that you don't want the function of, i.e. an arrow remover, the best solution is to remove it, rather than load everything later. It's just one of those times when you need to track the files down, it sucks but just create a load last folder z___________LOADLAST outta cover it, then move folders one at a time there and test.

Just an update to this in case anyone who ends up reading has the same issue...

It took me quite a while to actually reach a resolution on this and it was really puzzling me, because I had apparently fixed it, but then somehow unfixed it, several times.

As far as I can tell, the issue was choosing both the 'OWR half-reduction' option and the 'OWR Single arrows' at the same time. At least, removing one of them fixes the problem for me, and having both of them reintroduces it. Maybe it's obvious they're mutually exclusive to some extent, assuming they in fact are and I'm not just misinterpreting something, but I did not realize.

[twalsh102 1,601]

On 12/16/2020 at 2:26 PM, rsc204 said:

And now for something weird...

Maybe the following is an over-simplification, but I think you are understating the fill degree in the second scenario.

Let's use the LOD of your single building: 24W x 16H x 12D. For this example, I'll assume that the fill degree for width and depth is 100% or 1 for each axis. We'll also assume that because of some unusually high roof junk, the fill degree for height is 0.6. So the formula for overall fill degree is 1 x 1 x 0.6 = 0.6.

Now let's place two buildings next to each other along the short axis (so now you have 48 x 16 x 12. The fill degree for both width and depth are still 1 (i.e. the footprint is still filled to 100%, even though the area of the footprint has changed). The fill degree for height has not changed either (since both copies of the building are exactly the same), so it is still at 0.6. So the fill degree of the doubled building would still be 1 x 1 x 0.6 or 0.6 overall.

So regardless of the number of copies of the same building placed next to each other, as long the the buildings fill a square or rectangular footprint, the fill degree will always be the same as that for a single copy of the building. This should hold true regardless of how the overall filling degree is arrived at.

 

[rsc204 21,836]

22 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

So regardless of the number of copies of the same building placed next to each other, as long the the buildings fill a square or rectangular footprint, the fill degree will always be the same as that for a single copy of the building. This should hold true regardless of how the overall filling degree is arrived at.

Makes sense. However in the example, I'm using twice the filling degree, to account for the fact that only one building (occupant size) is being used. The logic being, that it would ultimately account for the same amount of usable space for the building. It's the discrepancy between the resulting properties I can't understand.

[twalsh102 1,601]

@rsc204, After rereading your entire post 3 or 4 times, I can see where I severely misinterpreted what you were trying to show with the two equations. After what you're trying to show finally sunk in, I realized that I had myself been here struggling with which of these same two equations would provide more accurate results.

It's been a long time since I've tried to CAMify a lot with multiples of the same building (think apartment or office complexes). I think I settled on using the multiples of the footprint method (vs. multiples of the filling degree), not for any specific reason other than that it made more sense to my fevered mind.

The fact that you end up with differing values for various properties (calculated by PIM-X) for the exact same m³ of usable space, would suggest that m³ of usable space is not the only value (or even the correct value) used in the calculations made by PIM-X for each property's value. Unless we know what actual equations are being used, I don't think we can arrive at a valid conclusion that there is "an inconsistency in the calculated values" based solely on both buildings having the same m³ of usable space. To arrive at that conclusion, wouldn't we have to assume that there are multiple calculations for the same value, and they somehow differ based on different sets of circumstances we are unaware of? Or there are a number of different calculations, and there is a random chance of which will be used? Or that somehow the computer is not performing the math correctly? I think the probability of any of these is extremely low or impossible, and none make much sense.

I suggest that since the listed occupant sizes as well as filling degrees differ, that one or both (or portions thereof) might somehow factor into some or all of the calculations. I'm now intrigued to the point I need to do some experiments.

There is a third method that might make sense and avoid many of the RW imponderables involved in building a lot with multiples of the same building, that would be far beyond the scope of this simulation (such as would increasing the size of a building to twice the size of it's original footprint really result in the same values as building two buildings of the same original footprint??). Use PIM-X to calculate the values for the original single copy of the building. Multiply those values by whatever number of those buildings would be placed on the lot (either next to each other or on different parts of the lot). Manually replace the old values with the new values. The Occupant Size and Filling Degree then don't matter, since no further calculations using PIM-X will take place. The resulting values might not be totally accurate for every value from a RW perspective, but in most cases would make at least some sense.

This is actually the third edit of my response. The others were entirely too wordy

 

[matias93 7,535]

Some idea on how to avoid this?

The lots are connecting the routes on the brigde to the subway station below, I guess because of the extra pathing needed for the RHW-6S, but that makes the commuters jump almost 40 metres...

If it's not fixable, I guess I'll reduce the depth of the valley underneath and use an L4 viaduct.

[rsc204 21,836]

Depth won’t really affect anything, since this jumping is just a flaw in the game. To avoid it, you need to make sure the TE lot doesn’t touch the bridge. This can be achieved by making a custom lot with a filler that sticks out a tile further.

I tested this out using the new FLUPs implementation, but as expected it doesn't work under game bridges. No doubt needing the overplop FLUPs piece just like other networks do to remain functional. However, I don't believe such a piece will be possible for bridges, so this type of lot is looking like the only option.

I made a "dual" filler lot, with an overhang on either side of the lot, for the rail network for someone a while back. The simplest solution is a similar "dual overhang", since it would support both a filler between two double-width bridges, but can also be used to place the Extender Lot further from the bridge. I'm just updating the set on the STEX shortly to v2 including these new lots.

[matias93 7,535]

That was... really efficient.

[rsc204 21,836]

14 hours ago, matias93 said:

That was... really efficient.

Copy/Paste Lots in Reader, re-ID 4 Properties and the actual ID, rename everything then just a tiny bit of quick lotting to finish.

Not so much work really, I would have been quicker if I hadn't attempted it somewhat inebriated and stupidly saved changes whilst the file was open in both iLives Reader and PIM-X simultaneously. In case you are wondering, that corrupts data very nicely and I had to remake two again!