MGB Lot and Mod Shack

[rsc204 21,865]

While I continue to support/develop the TGN mod, the plan is to eventually cover all new pieces that fit with the mod. I believe the online repository is mostly complete until NAM 44, but I've really not had the time to get into NAM 45 and any new features yet. Generally speaking I hope to keep on top of the NAM releases with the online repository, with a proper release in the exchanges maybe once a year if I can manage it. With around 4 NAM releases a year now, it's a lot more work to keep on top of than ever, so I can't make any promises.

 

[rsc204 21,865]

Version 2.45 of TGN for all versions has been updated on the STEX today, this should cover everything in the current NAM 45 release with the exception of some REW Ramps that can't be automated, until I can find a solution to including them.

I'll also note, as of today I have locked the equivalent files on the LEX, the process of updating this mod on more than one exchange has simply proved too much, so starting with v2.45 TGN is a STEX exclusive.

[Tyberius06 12,251]

17 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Version 2.45 of TGN for all versions has been updated on the STEX today, this should cover everything in the current NAM 45 release with the exception of some REW Ramps that can't be automated, until I can find a solution to including them.

I'll also note, as of today I have locked the equivalent files on the LEX, the process of updating this mod on more than one exchange has simply proved too much, so starting with v2.45 TGN is a STEX exclusive.

Thanks for the heads up and the update as well!

That's always a returning question from me and I keep forgetting the answere, sorry, but any chance for an NGN update (or that would be redundant for some reason?).

[rsc204 21,865]

The problem with NGN is that it's stuck languishing with a really old version of the TGN repository. I had a system for converting it to work with NGN, but this had to be overhauled when I made v2.36 (three versions ago) and I've struggled so much to keep TGN up to date that it's just kinda been sidelined. The big problem is not everything used by TGN can be converted to NGN, because the one thing I was careful to avoid was baking in sidewalks in the process and removing grass where it might actually make sense.

If you downloaded the TGN online repository (updated today), then manually ran the GoFSH script with your sidewalks used for both Paving and Grass textures as appropriate, you'd essentially get an updated copy of NGN. But I need to have a system where one repository does everything, so an official update/release may be some ways off.

[Tyberius06 12,251]

36 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

The problem with NGN is that it's stuck languishing with a really old version of the TGN repository. I had a system for converting it to work with NGN, but this had to be overhauled when I made v2.36 (three versions ago) and I've struggled so much to keep TGN up to date that it's just kinda been sidelined. The big problem is not everything used by TGN can be converted to NGN, because the one thing I was careful to avoid was baking in sidewalks in the process and removing grass where it might actually make sense.

If you downloaded the TGN online repository (updated today), then manually ran the GoFSH script with your sidewalks used for both Paving and Grass textures as appropriate, you'd essentially get an updated copy of NGN. But I need to have a system where one repository does everything, so an official update/release may be some ways off.

And this is the answere what I keep forgetting. I'm not quite there to play currently, but soonish, and most likely I'm gonna play with your Euro pavement mod or a hacked unified texture version of that. I need to dig out some of my texture working stuffs, yepp, GoFSH should do the job. Thanks again! 

[junspud 1,069]

8 hours ago, rsc204 said:

If you downloaded the TGN online repository (updated today), then manually ran the GoFSH script with your sidewalks used for both Paving and Grass textures as appropriate, you'd essentially get an updated copy of NGN.

This is what I've been doing.

 

You can also do smaller batches too with minimal editing of the scripts, like I did a smaller batch just for the REW ramps recently. Sometimes I'll edit the textures/alphas themselves for specific things. Honestly the repos are a godsend.

One thing I haven't been able to do I think is the sidewalks for the new elevated turning lane ramps, haven't been able to figure out which textures they are in the NAM files.

[rsc204 21,865]

21 hours ago, junspud said:

One thing I haven't been able to do I think is the sidewalks for the new elevated turning lane ramps, haven't been able to figure out which textures they are in the NAM files.

Do you mean those as part of the RHW QuickChange setups or otherwise used in combination with RHW? I'd imagine they would be part of the RHW textures somewhere, I don't get into those for the purposes of TGN for sure. I'm frankly not familiar enough with the changes in NAM otherwise to be of much more help, but I suspect @Tarkus, @Eggman121 or @Flann may be able to give you a clue.

If you've yet to try it out, GoFSH has a fairly recent function called the C0/D0 Filleter, which can export a DAT into a sort of repository, sort of because it may require a little manual intervention before you can make use of it, but it does a lot of the hard work for you. Frankly this feature used correctly almost makes SWN and TGN redundant, since you can do a more complete job with relative ease, comparative to how I had to build everything from scratch at least. I use this function to TGN-ify my own RHW networks, but I won't be releasing that since it's very much not to my usual release standards and I use a custom TGN Grass that is unreleased so it's not like it would work with TGN without a lot of additional effort my end.

Another thing GoFSH has added, when using Run Script there is an option DebugMode, which imprints the actual Texture ID on every texture whilst building things. If you used the Filleter to extract files one by one and the re-built them with DebugMode, you could then see the IDs of specific textures in-game and then track them down from the repo's Filleter created. It's a bit time-consuming if you have to do every NAM file, but a sure fire solution for those determined enough to go through it.

[Tarkus 6,933]

@junspud and @rsc204, regarding the new Elevated FTLs, including the dual-sided ones on the QuickChanges, the textures will be in with the rest of the FTL textures.  The IIDs for the elevated versions will be the same as the ground versions, except for the last two digits, which will either be in ranges 1A-1E (in place of 00-04) or 9A-9E (in place of 80-84).

NAM 46 will add the long-awaited Dual Type 230 QuickChange setups to the mix, adding support for diamond interchanges with triple-tile NWM networks.

-Tarkus

[bladeberkman 720]

Hey rsc204, 

Thanks again for another update to the TGN. I know the TGN is ever a work in progress. Just wanted to share this observation: Looks like the one-sided flex turn lane for avenue (the one that is only 1x1 and plops on one side of the Maxis avenue) is showing the vanilla grass textures. The one-way road piece is fine, though. Noticed it when I was trying to dress up this tram intersection with some turn arrows.

Thanks again for keeping this mod up-to-date. Helps my cities continue to look their best. 

-Blade

[rsc204 21,865]

11 hours ago, bladeberkman said:

Just wanted to share this observation: Looks like the one-sided flex turn lane for avenue (the one that is only 1x1 and plops on one side of the Maxis avenue) is showing the vanilla grass textures.

Thanks, I always appreciate such feedback, even if I can't guarantee when updates will be available, this is one small area that was indeed missed. I've added these textures into the repository so they will be included in the next official update.

On 29/11/2022 at 12:07 AM, junspud said:

One thing I haven't been able to do I think is the sidewalks for the new elevated turning lane ramps, haven't been able to figure out which textures they are in the NAM files.

Not sure if you got further with it, but these will be added to the SWN repository over the next few days, the US set is already handled I just need to cover the EU variants.

[bladeberkman 720]

I'm not sure, but I think I've found another issue. A basic street and road ortho crossing shows EU road textures instead of US textures. I'm using NAM 46 with the latest Sudden Valley TGN. Here's what happens:

 

When I remove TGN, the intersection uses the correct textures.

 

[rsc204 21,865]

Thanks again, another error from all the reshuffling I did for the last release, a few EU textures got left in the wrong folder and so the US ones were missing. Please know that since TGN and my other mods keep ballooning in size, it's become impossible for me to do the testing I used too. As such, lots of issues like this simply won't be known about unless users give me feedback, so feel free to keep it coming. Ultimately I do want the mod to be as complete as possible, so I'll always look to fix such issues.

As thanks for the reports, please find a patch with the affected textures, it's only good for users of the SV version with US textures. Otherwise these fixes have just been updated to the online repository and will be included when I next update the mod officially.

Update:
I have created patches for this handful of textures, see the info in this post.

[bladeberkman 720]

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Thanks again, another error from all the reshuffling I did for the last release, a few EU textures got left in the wrong folder and so the US ones were missing. Please know that since TGN and my other mods keep ballooning in size, it's become impossible for me to do the testing I used too. As such, lots of issues like this simply won't be known about unless users give me feedback, so feel free to keep it coming. Ultimately I do want the mod to be as complete as possible, so I'll always look to fix such issues.

As thanks for the reports, please find a patch with the affected textures, it's only good for users of the SV version with US textures.

zTGN 2-45 Patch - US.dat

Otherwise these fixes have just been updated to the online repository and will be included when I next update the mod officially.

You're great, thank you for the quick fix! So I've tried placing the attached file in my plugins folder a few different ways and I can't seem to get it working. I've placed it in the TGN folder (plugins > z____MGB Mods > G - TGN). I've also tried simply placing it in the root of my plugins folder. Neither seem to be overriding. Should I be deleting something first, then substituting the attached file? Or should it be working as an override? Maybe I'm putting it in the wrong place?

Thanks for the extra hand-holding! 

[rsc204 21,865]

44 minutes ago, bladeberkman said:

Maybe I'm putting it in the wrong place?

Plugins\z____MGB Mods\G - TGN\1 - Maxis & Base NAM is the correct folder, sorry. It has to load after the original textures in this same folder, which it will if placed there as it has a z prefix.

[bladeberkman 720]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Plugins\z____MGB Mods\G - TGN\1 - Maxis & Base NAM is the correct folder, sorry. It has to load after the original textures in this same folder, which it will if placed there as it has a z prefix.

Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, the issue persists. Here's what I'm seeing in-game and here's how my plugins TGN folder looks:

[rsc204 21,865]

Sorry, wrong folder since i forgot the install has a separate one for the Maxis Streets, it needs to go in that folder  although it should have worked for the FTL textures at least. 

[bladeberkman 720]

Perfect, that did the trick, thanks again! 

[rsc204 21,865]

Version 1.46 of SWN for all versions has been updated on the STEX today, this should cover everything in the current NAM 46 release.

The key updates are extended GLR and RHW support, specifically the Flex-based DDI & SPUI in addition to QuickChange and FTLs.

[bladeberkman 720]

Hey rsc204,

This issue is probably pretty niche, but I thought I'd share just in case. I'm using a combination of the SCILT Maxis Light Asphalt Sidewalk Mod along with your Maxis texture replacement mod (posted in your personal repository; don't think it's available on the STEX or LEX). Additionally, I'm using your SAM7 bikepath override and RTMT. I know, a lot of competing mods. Anyway, the RTMT stations for SAM7 bikepath show vanilla sidewalks. Not sure if the Maxis texture replacement was supposed to cover this particular texture.

Like I said, very niche, but I thought I'd mention it in case this scenario was supposed to be supported.

First pic shows the issue, second pic shows how the sidewalk textures for SAM7 bikepaths are otherwise supported.

Thanks,

-Blade

[rsc204 21,865]

5 hours ago, bladeberkman said:

I know, a lot of competing mods

Not generally a problem, since all my mods were designed to work together (where separate), in addition to Rivit's texture mods, the RRW ReSkin and others too. However there gets to a point where you simply can't release every option.

There is a file within the SAM7 mod that handles those few textures with sidewalks baked in, actually only three, the RTMT Lot Texture and an Ortho/Diag texture which is displayed under elevated networks. Within the SAM7 mod is support for my official SWN options, but you'll need a custom one for other sidewalks:

SAM 7 Bikepaths RTMT & HSR Addon.dat

I've made a custom file for your sidewalk (hopefully I got the right texture), although all the resources needed are in the SAM7 Repository under 6-Misc. However it's part of a larger script for the entire SAM7 mod, so you need to be a bit familiar with the process to do it yourself.

[bladeberkman 720]

Perfect, thank you for taking the time to make this work!

[rsc204 21,865]

Playing around the last couple days with Flora Families and seeing how that works in conjunction with my T21 mod:

This is very different to how I made the original version, which includes Autumn, Winter and Summer props for a single tree on each T21 Exemplar. For example to make what I originally showed here required 6 T21s, OK not so terrible right?, except it's actually 18 T21s because for each new tree a piece supports, I need a new copy of every T21 with it and I used 3 trees. Bearing in mind too, this only covers a single network tile (the Ortho Ave) and provides blanket support for only R/C zoning split by wealth and Low or Med./High density. Just to go through the entire Avenue network's T21s, with just three trees per situation that's already looking like an overwhelming task. So to make the screenshot above, I instead used Flora Families, which currently chooses from 28 different trees and can quickly and easily be expanded to support more. Meanwhile based on this example, I'll only ever need those 6 T21s to support as many trees as you like, because this is now controlled by the Flora Families which are independent. I'll add, unlike Props, Flora is rotated randomly when they appear too, this is another huge plus in terms of randomisation. You could add similar functionality with extra T21s again, but that would require 4 times the number of T21s, so 6 becomes 24 per tree, because you need one per rotation per tree.

Basically this can function much like the SFBT Tree mods, because the Family ID is all the T21s need to work. Provided you have one or more Flora Exemplars using the family, they will all be added to the pool of random trees to display. In other words, just a few Exemplars is all it takes to use completely different trees, even from different creators. Provided you don't remove the models, it's theoretically^{see post below} possible to switch around the tress that will be planted, just by altering the files in Plugins.

Quick tip: not a lot of people seem to use this method, but by simply creating an override exemplar, that points to a different model via the RKT property, you can modify T21 setups without having to alter the T21s directly.

Now for the drawbacks, the largest of which is that these must be planted on the 1st September or the seasons will not be in sync. The nature of T21s means that whenever you are building new networks, clicking near existing networks and/or have buildings that alter the zone type (higher wealths/densities etc), the trees grow anew. Of course we can not control that all this will happen on the necessary date, which kind of necessitates every now and again, pausing the game on the 1st Sep and re-drawing all your networks to correct the seasons. Another minor thing is that the tree shadow in Winter will show the Autumn model, just like trees from Controllers and MMPs (i.e. Flora not Props).

Right now this is some early testing, to see if I like the concept, or if I prefer to go the longer route with Props and Multiple T21s. I love the flexibility, I just don't know how I feel about faffing around syncing seasons a lot to keep everything in check. Whatever happens I'll use the families with some special lots that need plopping on the 1st Sep, because seasonal families is otherwise impossible. Literally why the alternative is making many versions of the same thing, each with a different tree, to achieve the same effect.

MGB T21 Mod - MAVE-4 Test.7z

The file above contains a working version of what you see above, which is intended to complement LRM, although it doesn't mess with T21s using lights. The file zMGB T21 Mod - MAVE-4 Test.dat should be placed in the same folder as the Override Set.dat file from LRM, i.e. this must load after LRM (if you use it) to work right.

Updated 25th Feb - added AGC English Oaks and other tweaks (92 trees total):

NOTE: the new file aMGB-FloraFamilies_PropBase.dat MUST be kept installed at all times and should always be in the same folder as the FF files, none of which should be renamed if you want to be sure this works as intended.

The remaining files are the Flora Families (FF), which currently include the following of Girafe's trees:

• Alders
• Ashes
• Beeches
• Birches
• Chestnuts
• Elms
• Honey Locusts
• Lindens
• Maples (v1 or Original)
• Norway Maples
• Poplars
• Rowans
• Walnuts

Plus one additional set from @Barroco Hispano (from his Environment DLC):

• AGC - English Oaks

You can use as many or as few of these as you like, but the requisite download from Girafe will be a required dependency for each you keep installed. Note the filenames end in either LE (Lot Editor) or MM (Mayor Mode), showing which specific model pack file from each download is needed. Once more this shows the flexibility of this approach, you can mix match these files to control which trees you want to appear. With this update the Flora Families themselves are pretty much done .

[pippin 73]

I cannot find the right words... Just wow! Been waiting for something like this. Girafe trees... Any chance for a evergreen version? I've redone about a gogolplex of lots using those trees. If not I'll better fire up Pim-x,,,

[rsc204 21,865]

I usually get such questions whenever I make something using Seasonal Trees, others asking for an Evergreen version, which usually isn't a huge problem. However in this case, literally the only reason for using the Flora Families approach is precisely because it's the only way to have randomly chosen tress that remain seasonal. If you use a regular prop family, the seasonal variants all become randomised too, for example you might have an Oak in Summer, but in its place would be a Beech in Autumn then an Ash in Winter. But for non-seasonal (evergreen) trees, there are many reasons why it would be better to use a regular Prop Family over a Flora one.

Plenty of T21 mods have existed over the years, the SFBT Street Tree mod would be an ideal base for a non-seasonal users, it just lacks the Exemplars that link to Girafe's trees by default. That said it's really easy to do this, you simply need to add the Prop Family into the Evergreen Exemplars of Girafe's props, then it can work with the SFBT system. However, the good news is that T-Wrecks included such support as part of his HD Maxis Tree Replacer, which is absolutely the best mod of it's kind. If it weren't for my requirement to use Seasonal Trees, that solution is frankly much better for Evergreen players. The great thing about Evergreens, you can just create overrides once, then you never have to re-lot anything again, since the tress you want are automatically replaced. But if you want seasonal trees, this isn't possible due to the risk of triggering Prop Pox. So if you want Girafe's trees and don't require seasonal, then I would start with these two mods, because together they will effortlessly replace almost everything.

[rsc204 21,865]

Another quick update, just to explain the update shown here
(sorry for the mish-mash where images appear in the show us forums, but the rest gets posted here, for who would suffer to find a dev. thread and read it otherwise?)

Essentially I've implemented the system from RTMT for Prop Families, to work with the Flora Families. This means that you can switch around the trees that are currently in the family to control which tress can be planted, without messing with what was previously planted. This works by having a special file, essentially a duplicate of all Flora Exemplars but with the Flora Family properties removed, that is always present. For this to work, the file containing these (only one - aMGB-FloraFamilies_PropBase.dat), should be in the same folder as the original FF files. Likewise none of these files should be renamed, to ensure everything works, although technically provided the FF files load later, it all works.

There is one gaping downside, which is really just the same problem already noted, T21s refresh if the zoning type changes, which isn't always within a user's control. If you are using this feature but the zones change, refreshing the T21, it will of course mess with all your plans re what trees appear where. That said, it is otherwise an unprecedented level of control and randomness combined and I can envisage a few ways to mitigate the downsides. More generally, rather than rushing to sync the seasons as soon as things are out of sync, instead wait until development in a given area is more stable. This will limit the number of times you may need to re-sync them greatly. I guess it will depend on your tolerance for messing with things, but it's a possibility now, even if I suspect most users won't bother with it.

[rsc204 21,865]

Update on the Flora Families, first I've confirmed that you can add one item into multiple families, which is good news as it was rather important to how I intended to use them. So I've now created 4 distinct family types, which allows for a lot more of control of what will appear when using them:

• All Seasonal Trees
  Literally every tree goes into this group, when this family is used one will be selected at random - i.e. how things originally worked.
• Species
  I've created a family for each species (in use), so for example you could have a random Ash, Beech or other tree appear.
• Size
  As per the image below.
• Size Groupings
  Here, the above 12 groups are combined into just 4:
  • Small - all trees from sizes 1-2
  • Medium - all trees from sizes 3-5
  • Large - all trees from sizes 6-9
  • X-Large - all trees from sizes 10-12

To give you a better idea how that pans out, here is how the Ave T21s look when only the Large and X-Large groups are used:

The key difference is that without the smaller trees, I think you end up with a better tree spread, since these larger trees are best suited to networks like AVE with medians, for comparison, here's how it was before with all trees:

However, sometimes it's useful to have a smaller tree, for example near elevated crossings, TE lots like RTMT stations or even details like PedBridges you don't want obscured or colliding with large trees. It is possible to retain the ability to control this, by creating a series of optional additional T21s, although the specifics of which exactly are still in progress.

The current list of tree packs in use (for reference) are:

• Girafe:
  • Alders (MM & LE - the later are smaller variants of the same trees)
  • Ashes
  • Beeches
  • Birches
  • Chestnuts
  • Elms
  • Honey Locusts
  • Lidens
  • Maples
  • Norway Maples
  • Poplars
  • Rowans
  • Wallnuts
• AGC English Oaks (Big & Small)
• VIP Team:
  • Aesculus
  • Fagus
  • Populus
  • VV Misc. Trees

The option very much remains open to expand upon this later, although I should be clear that I'm only interested in supporting Seasonal HD Flora, so I think I've got most of what exists.

I am looking at some of the trees by Xannepann, but many are offset and unsuitable for this purpose, likewise I am looking further at AGC's trees, but just wanted the Oaks for now. I may also look at some of Neko's trees, I love the Cherry Trees, HD or otherwise and there are others I feel worth including. As before, all of this still works in such a way that you can decide which tree types you do/don't want to use, although you need a few trees for each group or you will loose the randomisation somewhat. Anyhow, the point is let's not get too hung up on the tree models, I've collected enough to progress with the mod for now.

Regardless of what happens with the T21 mod, I can already put these families to use on a number of lots which I want to seasonalise. For example seasonal versions of all the Maxis Parks, actually I already did this, but now I can keep the original families, albeit with different trees, keeping some more variety.

[PaPa-J 778]

This looks like promising work! Love what you are doing here.  Any chance of doing this with evergreen trees? (Pine trees)

[rsc204 21,865]

Sorry, but it's very unlikely I would myself modify this to work with non-seasonal trees, partially because if that's what I wanted, I wouldn't need to get knee deep in Flora Families and put up with the drawbacks of this method. In essence, the only way this kind of modding makes any sense, is because you want to have seasonal flora that can be selected at random.

The better solution is to use an existing mod like mentioned here, which already allows you to customise the trees it uses. All you have to do to make that work is add the requisite Prop Family IDs to the Prop Exemplars for the trees you want to use. It's literally copy/paste a property, you just need to know what and where to paste them. In the event that specific T21s for the Avenue pieces aren't supported by that mod (honestly can't remember), I could easily modify my T21s to use the Families from the SFBT mod. But someone (else) will have to create the modified Exemplars for it to work, because I've too much ahead of me to get sidetracked making things I won't ever use.

[PaPa-J 778]

I see, and totally understand.  Thanks for the reply.

[junspud 1,069]

Edit; Had a question about replacing textures on some of the MGB fillers as new props. But I think the problem was, I didn't realize the two-tile extenders require the Network group ID while the one-tile extenders do not. This was in the readme, but having done a bunch of one-tile extenders first and having them work it slipped my mind.

Edit again; I may have found a typo in the MGB Filler Set readme;

Quote

You simply need to find the texture you want, ensure it has the Group ID 1ABE187D (Network Texture)

It should be '1ABE787D' I think?