NAM: Requests

[hmm 17]

Are there any splitters for the NWM mod in the works? maybe something like...

MAVE-6 to two OWR-3's

OWR-5 to an OWR-2 and 3 (make two models, one will be the inverse of the other)

OWR-4 to two OWR-2's

MAVE-4 to two OWR-2's

Maybe some slip-lanes and turnining lane markings for the expanded OWR newtorks. That way you can make some really good looking suburban highways, the type thats almost a freeway, but it has traffic-lights and very few curb cuts for stores and large buinesses.

Also a sharp 3-tile 90 degree curve for the MIS. I saw the one for the regular RHW-2 and it only made me want more!

And I'm not just ranting. I am willing to work for these puzzle peices. I have plenty of experience with photoshop and illustrator and with my last job 3dstudioMax (i'm not sure what this game uses for its 3d files). If you need a texture/graphic design guy i'm there. Just shoot me a message.

[marakh 4]

Okay, well. I want to be able to make rail over railway wide curves, for example if there was a rail curving to the right, i would like to make another rail just to the right of it which continued straight, over the curve. Hopefully you understand. Also, if you can, could you do this with roads aswell? Thanks alot!!!

[dietercl 5]

i'm not sure if it has been asked or if it's possible but i would like catenaries over my rail networks the instant i drag them.

is this possible?

[Tonnakin 2]

There are already catenaries on the STEX: https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=files&keyword=plundere&view=all.

Also, is the sandstone pavement on the puzzle pieces planned or rejected? No response yet.

[dietercl 5]

wow thanks man i found some catenaries but these i must have missed. great find.

[Oohforf 19]

I'm not sure if this has been requested before, but how about Streetlights, Traffic Lights, and perhaps a turning lane thinggy for One-way roads?

maps.google.ca/maps

Here is a picture of a one-way-road that is coming off the 403 in Ontario, Canada, with turning lanes.

[Tarkus 6,932]

Originally posted by: hmm

Are there any splitters for the NWM mod in the works? maybe something like...

MAVE-6 to two OWR-3's

OWR-5 to an OWR-2 and 3 (make two models, one will be the inverse of the other)

OWR-4 to two OWR-2's

MAVE-4 to two OWR-2's

quote>

MAVE-6-to-Dual-OWR-3 is planned for the NWM release after the next (which will just be a small "fix" release).  The textures are already done up, and with the way it's situated, it will probably make the most sense just to make it a draggable.  The other 3 seem like logical additions as well, and it's likely they'll eventually make their way into the mod.

Originally posted by: hmm

Maybe some slip-lanes and turnining lane markings for the expanded OWR newtorks. That way you can make some really good looking suburban highways, the type thats almost a freeway, but it has traffic-lights and very few curb cuts for stores and large buinesses.

quote>

I know just what you're talking about, and yes, pieces along those lines are planned as part of the "Advanced TuLEPs".

Originally posted by: hmm

Also a sharp 3-tile 90 degree curve for the MIS. I saw the one for the regular RHW-2 and it only made me want more!

quote>

Are you referring to the 2x2 "Short" 90-curve?  If so, there already is an MIS one, actually, though you won't find it in the RHW Curves button as it's draggable.  Just draw a sharp 90-curve with the MIS--you'll see some amber squares, and once you release the RHW network tool, you'll find a curve there.

Originally posted by: hmm

And I'm not just ranting. I am willing to work for these puzzle peices. I have plenty of experience with photoshop and illustrator and with my last job 3dstudioMax (i'm not sure what this game uses for its 3d files). If you need a texture/graphic design guy i'm there. Just shoot me a message.quote>

Thanks for the offer!   As far as the 3D files in SC4, they're actually a proprietary format known as SimGlide 3D, or more commonly, S3D.  However, the Reader program that we use for most of the modding has the option to take a .3ds mesh and import it into an S3D file--that's actually how many of the non-ground-level transit puzzle piece models are made, as they generally have to be full-3D.

Originally posted by: marakh

Okay, well. I want to be able to make rail over railway wide curves, for example if there was a rail curving to the right, i would like to make another rail just to the right of it which continued straight, over the curve. Hopefully you understand. Also, if you can, could you do this with roads aswell? Thanks alot!!!

quote>

Technically possible.  However, you'd actually need several puzzle pieces depending on where you wanted the elevated railroad to cross the wide-radius curve, which would ultimately make things a bit on the impractical side.  As such, I wouldn't anticipate seeing that feature anytime soon.

Originally posted by: Tonnakin

Also, is the sandstone pavement on the puzzle pieces planned or rejected? No response yet.quote>

Unlikely as an actual NAM feature, though it would make sense from the standpoint of an aftermarket texture mod.  There already is the NekoPanch sandstone GLR mod out there . . . don't have the link on me at the moment, though.

Originally posted by: Oohforf

I'm not sure if this has been requested before, but how about Streetlights, Traffic Lights, and perhaps a turning lane thinggy for One-way roads?

quote>

One-Way Roads already have streetlights by default in the game.  Traffic signals cannot really be directly placed on the OWR network automatically because the stop points don't really work on that network (the lights will be stuck on green) and there's no way for the T21 exemplars that place the props to know which direction they should be facing.  OWR Signalization puzzle pieces are planned for the future, however, as are Turn Lane Extension Pieces (TuLEPs) for that network.

-Alex

[Oohforf 19]

Oh, ok. I haven't played Sc4 for a couple months now (waiting for my new computer). So, yeah, streetlights, forgot .

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I have documented the eternal loop bug by experiment in the NAM discussion thread.  I wonder if it is possible to limit Sims so that they must actually go somewhere on the network (especially if you have an interconnected net) and get off and go to work/home, anywhere but another transit point.  The problem will be finding the parameters of where the Sim is going.  If he is going to work, we have to tolerate him on a directional trip to his job.  He should not be allowed to go anywhere except his job, and must stay there for at least seven Sim-hours.  This applies to going home as well, except the stay there should be 24 - commute time - on the job time.  Of course, weekends don't apply, so that is another problem.

I seriously doubt this can be done without overhauling the Sim controls in the main program, so it may well be impossible for us to even try.  There is also the point that some of them go shopping, but that is not really in the Rush Hour scenario, I think.  We don't see the housewives and children actually going about their business during the day.  I am afraid this will need a total rewrite of the simulator which is probably out.

Any thoughts on this, and any possible stop to the looping would be appreciated. 

Regards,

John.

[z1 566]

The problem, as you have probably guessed, is that this behavior is hard-coded into the executable.  If we had access to the source code, it would be easy to fix.  But without that access, it's impossible.

What happens is that when a Sim looks for a job, the destination finder part of the traffic simulator looks for a job that is desirable and close by.  City boundaries are considered to be locations that contain jobs; they're slightly less desirable than the average job, because they always have a Long commute.  But their proximity to the Sim carries a lot of weight.  The destination finder pays no attention to whether the Sim is starting out from the current city, or has just crossed over from another city.

Of course, weekends don't apply, so that is another problem.quote>

Sims work seven days a week.  Really.

I seriously doubt this can be done without overhauling the Sim controls in the main program, so it may well be impossible for us to even try.quote>

You are correct here.

There is also the point that some of them go shopping, but that is not really in the Rush Hour scenario, I think.quote>

This is also correct.  Using the Route Query Tool, you can associate all traffic with commutes between homes and jobs.

I am afraid this will need a total rewrite of the simulator which is probably out.quote>

It actually requires just a fairly trivial modification to the traffic simulator engine.  Unfortunately, that requires access to the source code...

There are two ways to eliminate these loops.  The first I have mentioned in your other thread, which is to break all connections between any pair of cities in them.  The second is a bit trickier, but can be used successfully if you're careful.  If you limit the connections between two cities in a poossible eternal commuter loop to connections at the middle of the two city tiles (preferable large tiles), and there are plenty of jobs of various types on both sides of the connections, then an eternal commuter loop will not develop.  The destination finder will decide that these jobs are closer than the next city boundary, and the Sims will go to work there.

Note that you can't fool the destination finder by making routes from one city to the next long and tortuous, or even by having routes divert your Sims right into your CBD.  The destination finder judges distances only "as the crow flies" (although technically, it most likely uses Manhattan distances), and it leaves the actual pathfinding to the path finder, which runs only once a destination has been decided upon.  So you can use a limited access network to force your Sims who enter from a corner to travel straight to the CBD in the center of the city, but once you let them get off, they'll turn around and head right for the border even if there are empty jobs sitting right in front of them.  This behavior looks simply perverse until you realize that they decided on their destination before they set out on their trip, and they did not take avilable routes into account at that point.

For the same reason, setting up toll booths or other diversions has no effect on cross-border traffic flow.

[kolnikov inc 1]

i could really use some FARR MIS to diagonal MIS transition pieces....its very limiting that the MIS-to-FARR MIS can only go ortho...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

@z1: Thanks.  That is much more enlightening than I had hoped.  I gather there is a group, including yourself, who would be prepared to work on the source if you could legally get your hooks on it.  I don't know how often we can beat on EA, or whether it will have any result, but they must surely get sick of us asking.  Perhaps we can wear them down, someday.  I am sure we know more about that program than they do by now.

Actually, if we had the source, and the specifications for the program, it would probably be a simple but long haul task to rewrite the thing in something portable like Java or C++.  I am a retired teacher of programming arts and I have no language preferences except that I don't believe that Pascal should ever be used for anything but Intro to Programming.

The most important thing would be to keep the present program intact without allowing a temptation to upgrade it by adding features.  That would have to be a separate project, and only bug fixes should be done in an initial pass.  This would give you a SimCity 4.1, not a SimCity 5.0.  5.0 could be enhanced to take into account modern technology like multiple processors and modern GPU's, but at the same time, should not leave behind the large group running older machines.  This could easily be a major challenge.  5.0 should also be platform neutral, and protect the present stuff on the STEX, LEX, PLEX, etc.  There is too large a body of work there, for it to be discarded.  This could easily mean that upgrading the graphics would still have to protect the 2.5D aspect of the older game.  This stuff could be discarded in SimCity 6.0 with lots of clear warnings.

The thing in a rewrite would be to avoid Visual Studio like the plague.  Too many chances for an MS lock-in.  Now that Sun is owned by Oracle, it will be hard to find something to write in that doesn't have someone's copyright stamped on it.  I suspect the only possible compiler would be the Gnu C++ compiler (gcc) to avoid private licensing problems.  I think that implies that a programming group would have to have an association with one of the free software groups.

By the way, do we know what language the program is compiled from?

[Tarkus 6,932]

Originally posted by: kolnikov inc

i could really use some FARR MIS to diagonal MIS transition pieces....its very limiting that the MIS-to-FARR MIS can only go ortho...quote>

That is planned . . . eventually.  It probably won't happen until RHW Version 4.3 at the earliest, however.

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

By the way, do we know what language the program is compiled from?

quote>

To my knowledge, it's largely C++.  There's a few external LUA scripts included in SimCity_1.dat as well.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

From the way the program behaves it is clearly an early example of OOP.  I have taught classes in OOD and OOP and have used simulations as class problems.  This program behaves in the same way.  I don't think a casual observer would notice that, but anyone who has done some real programming and debugging would notice.

Well, I guess I have what I needed to know, and satisfied my curiosity for now.  Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Back to avoiding the terrible loop.  I have to make sure I have a tree and not a network in my cities and region.

I have an interesting conundrum right now.  When I broke a loop and cut the farmers off from road access to my port, replacing it with a rail freight line, they stopped shipping altogether.  I just convinced a few of them to start using the freight rail that runs off the edge of the tile.  I even put spurs from the line into the farm lots, and nothing happened with the older guys.  I guess they are just being stubborn (or the program is stuck on something).

[Gahagan 0]

Requesting the following three puzzle pieces to be put to NAM:

El-Rail corner over Road T-Intersection

El-Rail T-Intersection over Road T-Intersection

GLR across ground rail

I've enclosed pictures of the situations where the pieces would be used.

E-Rail corner over road t-intersection

E-Rail T-Interesection / Road T-intersection:

GLR across ground rail:

If these exist and I'm just missing them, I'd appreciate that information as well.

[Tonnakin 2]

Those pieces could be quite usefull, now you posted them. The E-Rail T-Interesection / Road T-intersection, however, is already in the NAM, though.

Plus, 70 pages is quite large for a thread. The thread is page-flip-bugged.

[mcarch 15]

A new thread possibly?

[biloxisean 0]

If it hasn't been suggested, EL Rail over road/One Way interchange

[bhiggins 20]

There may not be bikes that travel on roads in sim city 4 but a new addition to the realism concept would be bike lanes, and i don't think i have seen any on the STEX so far and would like to see them. The bike lanes would add much needed realism to many people's urban and suburban areas and they would act as a sort of eye candy. If anyone know's where i can find them or if you're willing to make them it would be great!

[gigacoaster 4]

is it possible to make PedMall pieces with bus stops or subway stations in them? from what i understand from my own testing, pedestrians cannot go across a subway station to a pedmall on the other side. it would be nice if there were combo pedmall/subway or pedmall/bus pieces.

[z1 566]

You don't want ped mall pieces with bus stops - there are no buses on ped malls.  You can get subway stations in Cogeo's PedMall Compatible Transit Pack.

[aidcity4 17]

What about tram on avenue

[Slashback 136]

^ That already exists.

[iowndiscti 141]

 (SORRY FOR THE CRUMMY PICTURES) ²  i just wanted to make a few cosmetic suggestions.

1.) 

Problem: the RHW-6 will convert back into RHW2 if it faces another non-rhw network. Can this be Fixed? Cosmetically speaking, it should function the same, but look similar to the intersection piece from the NWM( I'm thinking). i discovered this bug when i was trying to make an road cross a RHW in a mountainy - coastal area of my region ( similar to Malibu, CA)

2.

Problem: will there be any entrance MIS pieces to complete this in the near releases? it would help greatly ( this would possibly be part of a RHW-3 network maybe?)

3). is it possible to make a road ( red line) transition into two seperate one way roads? (blue line) this would be perfect for small suburbs  and farming communities ( i see these kinda roads in real life all the time)[ excuse me again for  the drawing, one of the blue arrows is supposed to be pointing inbound ]

(also are diagonal ground to el transitions for the RHW and MIS possible?)

[jeffsandychelsea 3]

This may have been suggested, but what about GLR on one way roads? I see it all the time in Portland and would really like to see it in the game! You could have just one lane for GLR and put it in the slow lane and then you'd still have sidewalks.

[marakh 4]

Okay . I really like rail, so i would really want to be able to have other rail lines going over intersections. For example imagine if there were two parrallel rail lines running in a straight line with no space between. I would love it if it were possible for the rails on the right to do a 45 degree turn over the other line. This would help alot in rails going thru stations and for large intersections

[a66666 0]

road interchanges

[Tarkus 6,932]

Originally posted by: iowndiscti

Problem: the RHW-6 will convert back into RHW2 if it faces another non-rhw network. Can this be Fixed? Cosmetically speaking, it should function the same, but look similar to the intersection piece from the NWM( I'm thinking). i discovered this bug when i was trying to make an road cross a RHW in a mountainy - coastal area of my region ( similar to Malibu, CA)

quote>

The RHWs wider than the RHW-4 are designed for strictly controlled-access functionality, which means the RHW-6 (both S and C) along with the RHW-8 and 10 will not be getting any sort of at-grade intersections.  In fact, those setups should have prevent RULs blocking them from even being constructed.

Originally posted by: iowndiscti

Problem: will there be any entrance MIS pieces to complete this in the near releases? it would help greatly ( this would possibly be part of a RHW-3 network maybe?)

quote>

Given that you have an MIS and an RHW-4 heading the same direction in that image, I'm not entirely sure what you mean there.  You can already interface those two using the Type A-Inside ramp. 

Originally posted by: iowndiscti

3). is it possible to make a road ( red line) transition into two seperate one way roads? (blue line) this would be perfect for small suburbs  and farming communities ( i see these kinda roads in real life all the time)[ excuse me again for  the drawing, one of the blue arrows is supposed to be pointing inbound ]

quote>

It is possible, but there are currently no plans on that front.  I could see something maybe along the lines the RHW-2/Dual MIS splitters (but with different CheckTyping and textures) filling the void eventually, though.

Originally posted by: iowndiscti

(also are diagonal ground to el transitions for the RHW and MIS possible?)

quote>

They are possible, and are planned.  The main holdup is that they require models, which is a time-intensive process, generally.

Originally posted by: jeffsandychelsea

This may have been suggested, but what about GLR on one way roads? I see it all the time in Portland and would really like to see it in the game! You could have just one lane for GLR and put it in the slow lane and then you'd still have sidewalks.quote>

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that one is under consideration by the German members of the NAM Team who handle T-RAM development, and they're looking at how to handle the logistical end of it.  

Originally posted by: marakh

Okay . I really like rail, so i would really want to be able to have other rail lines going over intersections. For example imagine if there were two parrallel rail lines running in a straight line with no space between. I would love it if it were possible for the rails on the right to do a 45 degree turn over the other line. This would help alot in rails going thru stations and for large intersectionsquote>

Are you referring to something along the lines of a quadruple-track rail system?  That is on the drawing board for the Railway Addon Mod (RAM), but is not likely to be implemented until at least Phase 3.

Originally posted by: a66666

road interchangesquote>

I'm not entirely sure what you mean without more specifics.  If you're meaning some sort of prefab setup like exists with Maxis Highways but between two Roads, I'd say it's very unlikely, and you can already do things along those lines with the existing puzzle pieces in a modular fashion.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[aidcity4 17]

Would it be possibale to make a rail and road bridge

[marakh 4]

@tarkus

I was saying that if you dragged a normal rail forwards for a while and another one right next to it for about half its length, it would be good to be able to make the shorter rail curve over the over one. 

Also i wouldnt mind having 2 different normal rails having a wide curve, or 2 different normal rails having a 45 degree intersection.

For the ones above i mean 2 rails parrallel to each other with no gap between