Small RHW Cloverleaf junction?

[Trentreznorspig 4]

I want to know how I get get a small cloverleaf junction. Not the one that hogs up all of the space.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Try installing Project Symphony if you haven't.  It comes with compact 270 degree cloverleaf ramps, for interchanges like this:

 

[Haljackey 17,302]

I made an entry for a cloverleaf in the RHW Interchange Guide. However it was made with RHW 3.0, so it can be made even smaller now thanks to the fact that the RHW is more stable than it used to be.

 

Link: https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14062.msg422922#msg422922

[Forsma7 1,325]

I did something like this today:

 

its kinda sharp but it still count as cloverleaf (plus its compact)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^  That's very interesting, but in the real world drivers would kill themselves regularly.  Interchanges should have continuous smooth curves if they are to be taken as speed.

[zknight008 9]

I built this a little while ago:

 

 

Still a bit unrealistic but it gets the job done.

[CahosRahneVeloza 385]

Here's an RHW-10S cloverleaf interchange I made using the FARHW ramp interfaces and smooth curve bits

 

[Trentreznorspig 4]

Thanks everyone. And that really sharp looking one looked interesting. And I do think it would kill someone in the real world.

I don't know about 30mph though.

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

I don't know about 30mph though.

Uh, no one has actually mentioned anything about speed limits (which is a bit surprising; by the way, RHW speeds are actually 150km/h). Logically, you'd need a fairly large cloverloop for traffic to turn at a convenient speed and without major slowdowns. This is why cloverleaf interchanges tend to be so large, and if you compare the default highway interchanges, you'll see why those interchanges are actually insanely tiny. In fact, anything concerning the default highways are underscaled by 50% compared to real-life highways; it's not that RHW is too big, it's that the default stuff is too small.

Big as it is, you can still scale things down to a convenient size; it won't be small as the default stuff, but it'll be compact enough. And a lot of long-term developments regarding RHW are aimed at two things: increasing the convenience of building new interchanges, and finding ways to make them more compact.

[Turjan 1,048]

Heh, "small" and "RHW" in the same sentence .

 

 And that really sharp looking one looked interesting. And I do think it would kill someone in the real world.

 

Oh, it surely would. Changes in curve degrees without direction change in cloverleafs are accident traps in real life, worse than consistently narrow curves. I grew up in an area with some of the oldest cloverleafs in the world, and those with irregular curves had a higher priority for rebuilding than the very narrow ones, because they lulled drivers into taking them too fast. So, ideally, cloverleaf curves don't need steering wheel adjustments, except when the curve changes direction.

[Trentreznorspig 4]

Yeah. We have a quite good interstate system in Champaign. We even have a road that transforms into a T-esque interchange. Except that's in urbana. 

[Turjan 1,048]

My home area still has stuff like that nowadays:

 

 

Most have been rebuilt though, especially on "real" motorways. The pic might explain why I'm fine with using Maxis cloverleafs in my cities.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

If you look at the size of the cars compared to the highway, you'll see that interchange is about the size of the one I posted a screenshot of, and the Maxis cloverleaf could fit inside one of those loops.  

[Turjan 1,048]

If you look at the size of the cars compared to the highway...

 

You know that doesn't work that way. Maxis cars are 4 m wide. Look at the houses. The upper-left loop would be about the size of the Maxis cloverleaf loops.

 

... and the Maxis cloverleaf could fit inside one of those loops.  

 

You are so far off with this statement, it's completely ridiculous. Here's the measurement:

 

 

Good luck with fitting that Maxis cloverleaf in there.

 

Maxis cloverleafs look mostly off because of the height exaggeration. Their loop diameter is nearly okay for my city purposes.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Trying for realism is commendable, but remember that the maximum tile size in this game is 4Km².  Many highway interchanges are larger than that.

[Turjan 1,048]

Especially if "realism" is defined in a way that excludes many real life situations.

[MushyMushy 3,617]

Realism? Sure, there are cloverleafs that you have to slow way down while driving on the ramps, like the one Turjan posted. Those cloverleafs would also be the ones that would get replaced if interchanges on the highways were to be replaced. Nowadays, people realize it is much more logical to build interchanges in such a way that you don't have to go irritatingly slow on.

 

 

 

And don't start talking about space constraints. If you're in a city that has newer interchanges, it's highly probable that they'll be stack interchanges instead of cloverleafs, since those take up less space and don't require much slowing down.

 

Also...

 

Here's the measurement:

 

 

You do realize you picked the smallest of the four loops, right? If you made a cloverleaf with loops that size, that would be one tiny cloverleaf; you'd have to go pretty slow on the loops.

[Turjan 1,048]

You do realize you picked the smallest of the four loops, right?

 

Yes, I even said so. The other loops had already been reworked, because there were no houses in the way. However, that loop exists. Which is sufficient for the purpose of this discussion.

 

Let's make it completely clear what this is about. I'm perfectly fine with you wanting to use your space in SC4 with putting huge cloverleafs all over the place. It's a hobby, and if that's what you want, that's how it should be. Maybe, one day, I will also do this in one of my cities, who knows. I'm just tired of this constant nagging that stuff like Maxis cloverleafs is "unrealistic" and that you should not use them. However, things like that exist. I'm sure that real life persons would hate having to navigate such installations, but my Sims don't complain. And if I need a good old city highway in tight situations, that's where the Maxis stuff goes. I also use them within avenues.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Nope.  Maxis cloverleaf loop diameters are 32 meters, still 25% smaller than your example.  Granted, that interchange is even smaller than it looked.  By general U.S. traffic engineering standards, the speed limit there should be 10 mph/16 kph.

 

That's not even a freeway though (I see some at-grade intersections).  I challenge you to find a 120 kph highway with dimensions like that (Maxis highways are actually 150 kph).  SimCity 4 doesn't slow the cars down for curves.  So you're really cheating any semblance of physics by decreasing commute time.

 

So yes, I overestimated.  But no, Maxis interchanges are still not really possible in real life.  

[Turjan 1,048]

Nope.  Maxis cloverleaf loop diameters are 32 meters, still 25% smaller than your example. 

 

Not true.  I guess you remember a radius of 32 m. Look at this image:

 

 

The support beams of the loop are roughly 60 meters apart. To be fair, I'd use a comparable measurement to my real life example, which I measured from the inner lane, so about 52 m (the sunlit space is about that wide). Which means that the Maxis cloverleaf is considerably larger than my real-life example.

 

 

That's not even a freeway though (I see some at-grade intersections).  I challenge you to find a 120 kph highway with dimensions like that (Maxis highways are actually 150 kph).  SimCity 4 doesn't slow the cars down for curves.

 

The limitations of the simulation don't really matter in this context. I'm looking for cloverleafs within old growth cities, and those are small. Even the cloverleafs in the countryside were often built for 60 kph, so who cares. Especially in a game that takes lots of freedom with dimensions.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Well I'm not your mother, so you of course may build your highways as you like.  Use your creative license.  But I can't stop people from bothering you whenever you post pictures of MHW.  Carry on.  

[Turjan 1,048]

Well I'm not your mother, so you of course may build your highways as you like.  Use your creative license.  But I can't stop people from bothering you whenever you post pictures of MHW.  Carry on.  

 

On that we can agree. To each his own. And don't worry about people complaining about MHW. I have also a perfect image from a motorway a few miles from the Maxis headquarters. Lane width on the motorway is 12 feet (3.66 m), which comes to about 11 m for three lanes. Directly next to that, just exiting the "ramp" (without deceleration lanes) you get to a street network, with two lanes 50 feet wide, so about 15 m. Sidewalks go extra.

 

It's easy to see where they got their inspiration: right in front of their door, in the city.

[Tarkus 6,932]

Well I'm not your mother, so you of course may build your highways as you like.  Use your creative license.  But I can't stop people from bothering you whenever you post pictures of MHW.  Carry on.  

 

The only time I get cranky with MHW users nowadays is if they request we make a new prefab MHW interchange. 

 

-Tarkus

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I happen to like the MHW and all its frogs.  It is in proportion to the game environment.  The complications of RHW are really just not my cup of tea, so I simply don't load them up.  Maybe someday I'll get the RHW bug, but right now I seem to be immune.

 

There is a large number of features in the custom content that are nothing more than ego trips on the part of the creator. 

 

I am as guilty as everyone else.  The Seminary of Mota (mine) was an exercise in outrageousness.   It is one of my earliest BATs and shows my disdain for Bauhaus and all its disciples.  But if you need a college, try it.  The tall spiral on the top was easy to do, but hard to texture.  The dome texture is a bleeding chunk of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.  It was fun doing it, just to prove that I could.  This is a mud pie compared to the RHW and some of the other stuff that's around.  Applause to all creators.