nybt-forum-threads NYC Lot Size/Map Coordination

[Seraf 1,239]

I was thinking about sharing our data about in-game map of Manhattan with other team members in order to coordinate our team work. I mean, to just make sure that most of us makes buildings that will fit in another one's city Also we could think about making a map that would avoid problems such as large buildings placed on city borders (Farley Post Office, NYPL, Grand Central).

Tell me what you think about this.

 

For now, most of my city blocks between 42nd and 86th streets are 4 tiles long, widths are as follows:

 

1 Ave - 2 Ave   - 13 tiles

2 Ave - 3 Ave   - 12 tiles

3 Ave - Lex      -  9 tiles

Lex - Park        -  8 tiles

Park - Madison - 9 tiles

Madison - 5th   -  9 tiles

5th - 6th ave      - 18 tiles

6th - 7th ave      - 16 tiles

7th - 8th ave      - 16 tiles

 

I think that covers the majority of midtown...

[TheBonobo4 28]

I know I'm not part of NYBT, but that looks correct. I'd need to check exact figures but how I've done it is that streets are usually 3 lane OWR 1 tile wide roads, with 42nd, 57th and 72nd (I think) as exceptions. The avenues are usually 1.5 tile wide 5 lane OWRs, and yeah the blocks are definitely 4 tiles wide.

[PBGV103 729]

Park-Madison is roughly 122 meters on Google Earth, which translates to 7.625 -> 8 tiles wide in the game. I also measured Madison-5th and 3rd-Lexington at 128 meters, which is exactly 8 tiles. 6th-7th-8th are 242-244 meters, which would be about 15.25 tiles. If we make those blocks 15 tiles that's a decrease in length of 1.7%, but if we increase them to 16 tiles, that's an increase of 4.9%. I would lean toward 15 tiles. Also, the avenues are generally around 28 meters wide including the sidewalks. If those blocks are left at 15 meters, the extra 4 meters of width from the game's sidewalks (32 meters wide), makes up for the 4 meter decrease in the block size.

[Vlasky 1,803]

I'm more interested in figuring out places where we have to use FARs and diagonals and specifically Downtown. I have had trouble whit Maritime at what angle I should render it to fit into recreations. If someone has figured out how to do downtown, a guide would be nice so that future BATs can be aligned. 

 

This was my attempt, but a guide to what's best would be very appreciated. 

[TheBonobo4 28]

That looks very nice. Certainly Downtown and the Financial District will be very hard to recreate. I like what you have so far. What terrain and water mods are you using? And is that Izidor's map or someone else's?

[Vlasky 1,803]

I'm using Lowkey's Appalachian mod, and also I have Poseidon modd there as well and it changed the water to what you see. The map, I am not really sure which one I used I tried them all

[PBGV103 729]

Has anyone used FAR to make the Times Square intersection?

I've been trying to figure out a way to the width of Manhattan fit in one large tile, but it seems like either the Queensboro or GW bridge get chopped in half.  We really need someone to figure out that source code so we can make extra large city tiles.  

[TheBonobo4 28]

Yeah so my rendition of NYC is slowly and sadly crashing before me. The East-West border of two cities is such that many important buildings, such as the Farley PO and I've just found out now that the Natural History Museum do not fit. Though the Maxis NHM does not seem to be to scale weirdly. Anyway, I will need a fix for this, obviously ideally one where I do not have to start again. Yes I've only done about 3 days worth of work, but I really do not want to start again, as I'm proud of what's been done and a lot of effort and time was used in this. But it's a sad situation.

[PBGV103 729]

The Maxis version of the Natural History Museum, Lincoln Center, and Guggenheim Museum are all horribly scaled.  It's hard to even use them.

[TheBonobo4 28]

I've noticed. It's a shame as, as far as I'm aware, there's no BAT version of them.

[PBGV103 729]

The NHM would be complicated to make, but the other two are fairly straight forward.  Maybe one day someone will get around to them.  My issue is there are hundreds of more noticeable buildings to make so it's hard to find the desire to spend a ton of time on low-rise buildings.

[TheBonobo4 28]

I wouldn't call them unimportant. I know you didn't, but for a NYC recreation of sorts, they are important. Granted, a huge skyscraper is more impressive to look at, but sometimes it's nice to have a bit of variety. That's why I think we need more University style buildings, or old Gothic buildings like Cathedrals etc.

[Seraf 1,239]

Park-Madison is roughly 122 meters on Google Earth, which translates to 7.625 -> 8 tiles wide in the game. I also measured Madison-5th and 3rd-Lexington at 128 meters, which is exactly 8 tiles. 6th-7th-8th are 242-244 meters, which would be about 15.25 tiles. If we make those blocks 15 tiles that's a decrease in length of 1.7%, but if we increase them to 16 tiles, that's an increase of 4.9%. I would lean toward 15 tiles. Also, the avenues are generally around 28 meters wide including the sidewalks. If those blocks are left at 15 meters, the extra 4 meters of width from the game's sidewalks (32 meters wide), makes up for the 4 meter decrease in the block size.

 

I think when I was making my map about 1,5 years ago I tended to round up the numbers. I thought it would be safer to have some spare space. But that's always something that can be discussed.

 

 

I'm more interested in figuring out places where we have to use FARs and diagonals and specifically Downtown. I have had trouble whit Maritime at what angle I should render it to fit into recreations. If someone has figured out how to do downtown, a guide would be nice so that future BATs can be aligned. 

 

This was my attempt, but a guide to what's best would be very appreciated. 

 

Ugh, downtown...maybe we shoud rename this part of town "Nemesis" But seriously, the first thing with it is that we, while making BATs, should consider rotating our models so they would be in the same position as real buildings. The problem then would be the roads...I'm not really well informed as to the capabilities of the newest NAM, but maybe we could check what part of downtown roads we can do at present?

 

 

The NHM would be complicated to make, but the other two are fairly straight forward.  Maybe one day someone will get around to them.  My issue is there are hundreds of more noticeable buildings to make so it's hard to find the desire to spend a ton of time on low-rise buildings.

 

NHM is quite far down on my to-do list but it is there... I have no problem with low-rise buildings, I got used to the fact that most of my creations are dwarfed by the works of other team members

[TheBonobo4 28]

I found out today I'm going to have to start my NYC recreation again due to city border issues cutting buildings in half. This means editing the config file and rearranging borders. Seems easy enough, though I haven't a clue how to avoid this problem. So for now the entire project is "on hold".

[Seraf 1,239]

I found out today I'm going to have to start my NYC recreation again due to city border issues cutting buildings in half. This means editing the config file and rearranging borders. Seems easy enough, though I haven't a clue how to avoid this problem. So for now the entire project is "on hold".

 

Don't despair Before I got my map fairly right I needed to start again like ... eight, nine times? Yeah, something like that You should figure out where you can place borders so they won't cause you any trouble, or at least not much. For example, one of my borders goes through 42th street, that way I don't need to split in half NYPL or United Nations Headquarters. There would be a little problem with Grand Central Viaduct but I will think about it when GCT will be being made. The problem you encountered, with FPO - to avoid that you would need to sacrifice the Roosevelt Island as I did. Just move the city borders more east so that eastern border of your city would go along 11th Ave. I can't check now but I think the only area that would be split would be Stuyvesant Town, but then you have whole Central Park width in one piece.

[TheBonobo4 28]

With Izidor's map and the default boundaries there was no issue with North South boundaries, so UN and NYPL would be in one piece, it was just East West. By moving the border slightly, I reckon I can get 90% of Midtown in one tile, and have Theodore Roosevelt Island wholly in a large tile, thereby just about having enough room for the Queensboro Bridge.

And you meant 1st not 11th Avenue? I think I worked it out and if I move the boundary I can get the Eastern border of Midtown as 2nd Avenue or near abouts.

[Seraf 1,239]

Sorry, I got a little tangled, I meant western border but I was thinking about eastern border too But yes, you could place eastern border along 1st Avenue and it should work. I placed mine in the East River and I think it goes through Roosevelt Island so I have a little space for bridge left.

I remembered another thing: before I made my own map I tried one of the maps available at STEX (don't remember which one though...) and the map was simply too short. I started having problems above 97th street, there was just too little space to laid all the roads and city blocks. Make sure to check your map in this matter too.

[TheBonobo4 28]

Hopefully a little fiddling around will make it work. It'll be good as well to have the entirety of Midtown in one big city.

[edwardjeria 503]

's right to use 70th Street to passing behind the building flatiron, flatiron comprised distric to central park south

[PBGV103 729]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the Flatiron District is nowhere near Central Park South.  It's about 36 blocks south.

[unclesahm 32]

Yeah - the Flatiron District is the area around Madison Square Park, west of Chelsea and east of Murray Hill

[TheBonobo4 28]

Probably dumb question, but how do I rename a region without erasing the cities? Is it even possible?

[edwardjeria 503]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the Flatiron District is nowhere near Central Park South.  It's about 36 blocks south.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the Flatiron District is nowhere near Central Park South.  It's about 36 blocks south.

.

forgiveness if mo I understood, I mean that my map of midtown goes from 42nd Street to the 67 (I think) and it looks pretty good

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Park-Madison is roughly 122 meters on Google Earth, which translates to 7.625 -> 8 tiles wide in the game. I also measured Madison-5th and 3rd-Lexington at 128 meters, which is exactly 8 tiles. 6th-7th-8th are 242-244 meters, which would be about 15.25 tiles. If we make those blocks 15 tiles that's a decrease in length of 1.7%, but if we increase them to 16 tiles, that's an increase of 4.9%. I would lean toward 15 tiles. Also, the avenues are generally around 28 meters wide including the sidewalks. If those blocks are left at 15 meters, the extra 4 meters of width from the game's sidewalks (32 meters wide), makes up for the 4 meter decrease in the block size.

 

I think that block need to be 16 tiles, there we can split the city block evenly. I think the same for city blocks that have a odd number.

[PBGV103 729]

What do you mean? What's the point in stretching buildings to make the blocks an even number?  The least scaling possible will yield, the easiest and best results.  Also, from a recreation standpoint, if we scale up the width of every block we end up with a wider, less realist recreation. 

[edwardjeria 503]

I doubt arose about the streets, and often seen that the 5 ave. make 2 spaces, but according to my calculations, it is only 1, I'm right?

[PBGV103 729]

The avenues, including the sidewalks, are generally 26-30 meters wide. Park Ave varies from 30-43 meters wide.  I don't think there's any way to handle it other than to round up to 32 m (2 tiles) or 48 m (3 tiles) for the game.

[edwardjeria 503]

wau, too, as I think we should add a rule nybt Street, I vow to be of a square laa streets esepto park ave. Have be 3 by sample with Helmey building that could use sample

[edwardjeria 503]

you guys have something we perhaps served 

is a small map of the width of the streets of NY, 42nd Street using reference and give Seraf gave us. 

I could only get from lane 1 to 9, I hope it is enough 

ps, each drawing square test equals 1 square in sim city 

THANKS

[TheBonobo4 28]

Most Avenues are 5 lane OWRs, 1.5 tiles wide. Park Avenue is an obvious exception, it's a 6 lane (3 one way, 3 the other way) Avenue, with trees in between.