The State of Simcity - EA/Maxis speaks

[CaribbeanSail 33]

What kept me playing was confidence that bigger cities would be coming eventually, since Maxis did seem to be listeneing and addressing concerns and that is the number 1 concern by far.

 

Major disappointment to hear this official news that it simply will not be happening.  I think I may finally pack up the game, offline mode may get me coming back occasionally, but I cannot see investing in any more expansions or DLC knowing that the map size will never increase.

 

Looking forward to SimCity 6, where at least I am sure they will not make the map size mistake again.  Perhaps somewhere around 2020.

 

I did get a lot of play time out of SimCity and do not feel I wasted my money, so I wont gripe too much.

[BravoGreenONE 120]

It's not because of the player's computer's specs. The agent system doesn't scale very well, so with larger maps, the pathfinding would be more and more broken until some components simply ceases to work (for instance, water that can't find the way to a house, or workplaces not recognised as such because they are too far away from the residential area). In short, if the maps were slightly bigger than they are now, the simulation wouldn't work.

It's not your computer that's bad, or EA's servers that don't do their jobs. It's the framework of the game that's fundamentally flawed.

This is exacttly it. Its easier to say computers will not handle it rather than the truth- the engine cannot. EA/Maxis is just trying to save the little pride they have left.

[Xenocity 343]

 

 

If it makes you feel any better Maxis games are still less bug ridden than Bethesda's (Elder Scrolls, Skyrim, Fall Out 3)

 

A fun fact from history, Simcity almost didn't find a publisher because no publisher though the game would sell enough to warrant the investment in 1987.

It took the game  3 years before it sold well.

 

We bought Ultima 7 when it first came out in 1992.  There was a bug where if you went to the Horace the Lich's house in Skara Brae the game would crash.  We called Origin and they sent us a patch.  Via floppy disk.  Snail mail.  Those were the days.

 

The fact that companies can now release crap and patch it up after letting us playtest it is a sad but unavoidable fact today.  I don't see a way around it.

 

Actually this is nothing new.

Games back on NES and Master System had the bugs and glitches fixed in the later prints of the games.

 

Most publishers and developers have been releasing bug ridden games since the 1980s mainly due to investor and management pressures.

They have to meet the deadline and release whatever they have.

 

I mean if management wasn't so beholden to investors and Wall Street, then games would get delayed more often.

 

The two worst non shovelware games released in the past 8 years are Aliens: Colonial Marines (released in February 2013) and Too Human (Released in 2008 I think on Xbox 360).

Both were extremely buggy beyond belief to the point of unplayabilty.

 

Since A:CM was a shooter, it was the #1 selling game in February in the U.S. and easily broke 600k in sales in the U.S.

Sega and Gearbox made their money back.

 

Too Human went down in flames and still burns in infamy.

Dyack the president of Silicon Knights had a meltdown on NeoGaf over defending his game (apparently everyone was biased against him).

Silicon Knights has since gone under.

 

...

 

Funny enough I did own the Mac version of Sims 3 at launch and played it for a whole day, rarely encountered small issues while never experiencing a major issue.

 

Though I ended up giving the game way becauses I couldn't get into the game.

 

Simcity 2013 met my expectations with issues, being no buggier than any other Maxis games I've owned.

 

...

 

Though when you buy a Maxis made game, you should expect it to be bug ridden and patched later (I've owned nearly every game they have made).

Sim Tower was the least buggiest of them all to date.

 

At least it isn't as bad as Skyrim where the game had massive bugs at release that rendered the game playable for only short bursts.

Skyrim didn't become stable until the 3rd major patch.

 

Sadly the PS3 version was unplayable at launch due to a game breaking set of bugs, which Bethesda took their sweet time to fix the issues.

 

Strangely enough this tradition for Bethesda's games, yet people still go crazy over their next major game.

...

 

I'm done ranting about most games (and software for that matter) being buggy.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

Your point regarding recent bug ridden games is spot on, I cannot think of any game that has been released in the last ten years that didn't require at least one patch.

The hate that maxis are receiving on Simcity seems to have been aimed squarely at EA but has been lost in the mix somewhere along the way. Now maxis are receiving flack for releasing a bugged game and rightly so, at release. The bugs made the game incredibly difficult to play and the server issues were unacceptable. You could argue that releasing an unfinished game was beyond reproach and that everyone at EA and Maxis should be fired immediately but this all seems to have been fixed or addressed in the months since. It also seems like an unjustified attack on people who have spent a great deal of time working to fix some problems that people (myself included) got upset about. Instead of us being grateful the internet as a whole seems to sulk about things that are in all likelihood very difficult to fix whilst ignoring the vast improvement that has taken place since release.

As a thought if valve released half life 3 next month and there were a few issues with it I would be willing to bet that the community would be way more forgiving purely because EA had no involvement.

Back to Simcity though, the maps are too small is the next criticism that had been leveled since day one. Yes they are smaller than what people are used to in SC 4 or cities XL but this isn't a bug. This is a limitation of the engine as a whole. Without a ground up redesign it would be hard to fix this in any number of updates. I find it exasperating that there are still trolls on the official forums demanding bigger maps despite the top dog categorically stating that they cannot (will not) do it.

What is irritating me still is that maxis are using the excuse that you are supposed to be managing the region not the city. This would be fine if the region play worked. This is still the most bugged part of the game. If they could guarantee a fluid experience that worked as advertised then I would be happy.

To stop myself sounding like a maxis devotee with EA tattoos in inappropriate places I will say this, if they do not provide an offline mode or provide support for the UGC they are hinting at I will have to pack this game away and move on.

If they provide these things I think we as a community will be better placed to effect what is going in the game to provide the sort of experience we were expecting.

[mrbisonm 1,622]

After 2 weeks of play, I stuffed it away........ yesterday, I made a present with it to a kid in my neighborhood. Today, it's forgotten. What I think of it? Well, I don't wanna be banned again on this site for telling the truth........That's my end for SC4rap2013.

 

mrb

[Xenocity 343]

They deserve the flack over the servers.

If you are still surprised that Maxis is producing bug ridden games this day in age then there is something wrong with you...

If Maxis released Simcity 2013 as an independent company, it wouldn't have gotten hate, but merely a few diappointing comments.

There are many companies in this world that treats their workers and consumers far worse than EA, but get a free pass because they aren't EA.

These gaming companies are far worse than EA:

• Capcom: on disc DLC anyone? upteen expansions of Street Fighter IV (each costing between $15-$30)? Nearly every new game of theirs gets an ultimate version in a year with added content. Capcom doesn't patch all of their games.
• Activision: witholds DLC and features from PC and Wii/Wii U versions
• WB: constantly dishes out DLC for most of their games while delaying the Euro versions. Also releases ultimate versions of their fighting games within a year. Also bad PC ports from what I hear
• Sega: Well most of their games go the way of Capcom and/or need day one patches which may break other parts of the games
• Ubisoft: There's a reason why they are called Ubis--t instead of Ubisoft
• Square-Enix: tons of DLC, can't get games out on time, FFXV was promised by 2008, now coming in 2014
• Nintendo: still using kiddy graphics, refusing to grow up, not enough DLC for gamers, refusing to add online multiplayer to their game, focuses too much on kids and "casuals". Gamers hate them the most
• Nintendo also made gamers download a huge day 1 OS patch for the Wii U during the launch peroid to use the system.
• EA: well they did reskin this year's FIFA, ummm..... they did release Madden 25... they did refuse to release ME trilogy on Wii U but released ME3:U a week later at the same price.
• EA also gave people a free games in response to the Simcity launch debacle (the competition has never compensated users for their failures)
• EA now allows returns/exchanges of games within a week now (all retailers don't allow this, Valve refuses to implement this in Steam)
• EA is one of 4 companies allowing you to buy the PS4 or Xbox One digital version of games for $10 , if you have bought the PS3 or Xbox 360 versions this fall and holiday. (could be more companies by year's end)

Other than that EA really was one of the better gaming companies for 2013, though they did take cash from Apple which they are currently being hated for.

Isn't Apple still the most hated company due to their yearly hardware models which "screws" over consumers (yes this is the center of most of the Apple hate)?

The point is EA hate is severly dated, especially with their competition doing the same or worse practices.

I'm not defending EA, but pointing out how EA's business practices aren't the worst in the industry anymore (I'm looking at you Capcom).

[Herdervriend 46]

EA/Maxis games finally showed that they actually do care about there customers. That is what I thought after reading the first paragraph. 

And with the "Offline Mode" and "Modding" also been thought of. I do think even bigger maps should be come a possibility in the future.

So, I don't know. I think we should just wait. I think this is a strategy from EA/Maxis at the moment to make more money, it works.

 

By saying it's not possible, people think it's hopeless. And then, boom, it's possible and people are so needy they are actually buying it for lots of money easy.

Same with drugs. If there isn't any, see how people become. But when it's there again. Phew, you will get rich, no matter how bad the product is.

Think there doing this to games now to. It's working, so why not. Stupid government will not ever do anything about it. So they can play this freaky game.

 

For me it all doesn't matter that much. I just wanna see the region play working a bit better, that's all, then I am happy.

(Water flow, electrical flow, being able to build a city with only homing and the other with work and so on)

  Edited October 9, 2013 by Cyclone Boom  
Language please.

[ghosty12 13]

These gaming companies are far worse than EA:

• Capcom: on disc DLC anyone? upteen expansions of Street Fighter IV (each costing between $15-$30)? Nearly every new game of theirs gets an ultimate version in a year with added content. Capcom doesn't patch all of their games.
• Activision: witholds DLC and features from PC and Wii/Wii U versions
• WB: constantly dishes out DLC for most of their games while delaying the Euro versions. Also releases ultimate versions of their fighting games within a year. Also bad PC ports from what I hear
• Sega: Well most of their games go the way of Capcom and/or need day one patches which may break other parts of the games
• Ubisoft: There's a reason why they are called Ubis--t instead of Ubisoft
• Square-Enix: tons of DLC, can't get games out on time, FFXV was promised by 2008, now coming in 2014
• Nintendo: still using kiddy graphics, refusing to grow up, not enough DLC for gamers, refusing to add online multiplayer to their game, focuses too much on kids and "casuals". Gamers hate them the most
• Nintendo also made gamers download a huge day 1 OS patch for the Wii U during the launch peroid to use the system.
• EA: well they did reskin this year's FIFA, ummm..... they did release Madden 25... they did refuse to release ME trilogy on Wii U but released ME3:U a week later at the same price.
• EA also gave people a free games in response to the Simcity launch debacle (the competition has never compensated users for their failures)
• EA now allows returns/exchanges of games within a week now (all retailers don't allow this, Valve refuses to implement this in Steam)
• EA is one of 4 companies allowing you to buy the PS4 or Xbox One digital version of games for $10 , if you have bought the PS3 or Xbox 360 versions this fall and holiday. (could be more companies by year's end)

Out of that list the only company that I do buy my games from is EA, I wont touch UbiS--t with a barge pole.. And well I dont own a console so I dont have to deal with that side, The only games I got from Activision was WoW and don't play that now..

And totally agree with the free game from EA over the SC2013 SNAFU not seen any other company do that for major mistakes made.. I got the 2012 version of Need for Speed Most Wanted from that promotion, but as before not seen any other company do anything like that..

What I find funny though is that Blizz had a similar SNAFU when they first released Diablo 3 when it came to getting online there were a couple of weeks of complaining about release day, then pretty much forgotten.

[baertooth 330]

All well and good but EA is the company that buys it's competitors and closes them just for their IP and then seek to force their milk you to death business model down the throats off all gamers.  It will take years and years for EA to live down their current reputation.  As is I don't see EA any different than they were a year, two years, or five years ago until they start acting differently.  All I have seen so far is they are starting to see their actions are affecting their bottom line and what can they do to increase the bottom line.  I don't see the recognition that repeatedly screwing the customer, even if it's just a little tiny bit, adds up each time it happens until... this happens.

[Xenocity 343]

All well and good but EA is the company that buys it's competitors and closes them just for their IP and then seek to force their milk you to death business model down the throats off all gamers.  It will take years and years for EA to live down their current reputation.  As is I don't see EA any different than they were a year, two years, or five years ago until they start acting differently.  All I have seen so far is they are starting to see their actions are affecting their bottom line and what can they do to increase the bottom line.  I don't see the recognition that repeatedly screwing the customer, even if it's just a little tiny bit, adds up each time it happens until... this happens.

Umm EA doesn't really do this anymore.

 

Many gaming companies buy out lesser studios they feel are a threat only to close them down.

Hell this goes on in every industry.

 

Ubisoft on the other hand has done the following:

• stole content and ideas from the small and indie studios  in which Ubisoft was their publisher
• Said content and ideas were incorporated into Ubisoft's games
• Ubisoft then withheld funding forcing many of the developers to bankrupt (it had a huge write up last year)
• delaying games at the last minute to make them multiplats (literally a day before they were supposed to ship)
• removed in game content in order to make it DLC
• releases the most shovelware in the market
• gimps PC versions
• been buying out smaller studios
• been forcing their employees to work longer hours
• Does yearly releases of their non sports games
• releases too much DLC at higher prices than the competition
• DLC isn't guaranteed to work when installed, may require a future patch (this happened with ACIII)
• DLC may break the game (this has happened before)

Activision:

• forceable removed the creators of Call of Duty from IW, when the CEO learned they were in talks with EA to make IW an EA developer
• The creators were also sued by Activision
• Activision did other things to them to punish them
• The studioes who make Guitar Hero were closed once Activision canned the series
• The employees were laid off and didn't get full payment for the last game they worked on
• Activision hide their buyout from the Investors which forced regulators to prevent Activision from buying out Vevendi's majority stake in them
• If Activision succeeds, Activision-Blizzard will become a private company
• I won't even go into detail what the Biizzard side does.
• Activision also gimps the Wii U and PC versions of Call of Duty each year, including withholding of DLC and features

Namco:

• You have to  buy the locked characters in their fighting games and Ridge Racer as DLC if you want the full roster
• If you want all the features you must buy them extra features as DLC in their fighting games
• They also let you buy stat boosting items and level ups in their RPGs, if you don't feel like grinding
• Namco rarely patches their games, unless forced to do so
• Namco doesn't bother to decently optimize their games, leaving you with long loading screens even on 3DS
• Namco also releases gimped products as well

Street Fighter X Tekken at launch cost you $120 for the game and all the DLC (including extra characters).

 

Let's not forget what Microsoft does when it comes to gaming...

 

At least EA hasn't sunk to  Activision or Ubisoft's level yet.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

Arguing that Nintendo is bad because of its kiddy graphics is just like complaining that Level-5 is bad, because many of their games have cel-shaded graphics (and that includes more than just Professor Layton, it also includes the PS2-exclusive Dark Cloud 2 and Rogue Galaxy as well!).  Those games are fun.

[Xenocity 343]

Arguing that Nintendo is bad because of its kiddy graphics is just like complaining that Level-5 is bad, because many of their games have cel-shaded graphics (and that includes more than just Professor Layton, it also includes the PS2-exclusive Dark Cloud 2 and Rogue Galaxy as well!).  Those games are fun.

Or complaining about the Simcity series cartoonish graphics?

 

Kiddy/cartoony/colorful etc... when it comes to graphics is very off putting to Western gamers.

 

Nintendo almost didn't release the original Pokemon in the West because they thought Western gamers wouldn't  buy the game based on the designs of the Pokemon.

 

Will America accept cute monsters? No, they said. Some people even recommended to make Pikachu more muscular. If we followed their advice Pokemon would never have been the success that it was. Brain Training software (Brain Age) became a hit in Japan, and I proposed that we sell it globally. And even as I said that as the president, no one listened.

http://thebridge.jp/en/2013/10/nintendo-satoru-iwata-bdash

 

 

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I have a feeling that this thread has strayed a bit very far from the original topic, being the state of SimCity.

[Zapf Dingbats 7]

It's not because of the player's computer's specs. The agent system doesn't scale very well, so with larger maps, the pathfinding would be more and more broken until some components simply ceases to work (for instance, water that can't find the way to a house, or workplaces not recognised as such because they are too far away from the residential area). In short, if the maps were slightly bigger than they are now, the simulation wouldn't work.

 

It's not your computer that's bad, or EA's servers that don't do their jobs. It's the framework of the game that's fundamentally flawed.

This problem is already a part of the current game. When I make my avenue too long, my zones just lose water, electricity, trash, sewage. Then I have to make it shorter or connect more roads into it. At this pace, I am not surprised that the expansion is going to have the same problem. You can't fix the game if it's already broken at release. I know a game isn't like a car but if you build a game w/o stability, you can't just say ok so I will dwell into these hundred thousand lines of code and somehow stabilize the game. Microsoft can't even fix Windows and they got all the money in the world.

[Zapf Dingbats 7]

They deserve the flack over the servers.

If you are still surprised that Maxis is producing bug ridden games this day in age then there is something wrong with you...

If Maxis released Simcity 2013 as an independent company, it wouldn't have gotten hate, but merely a few diappointing comments.

There are many companies in this world that treats their workers and consumers far worse than EA, but get a free pass because they aren't EA.

These gaming companies are far worse than EA:

• Capcom: on disc DLC anyone? upteen expansions of Street Fighter IV (each costing between $15-$30)? Nearly every new game of theirs gets an ultimate version in a year with added content. Capcom doesn't patch all of their games.
• Activision: witholds DLC and features from PC and Wii/Wii U versions
• WB: constantly dishes out DLC for most of their games while delaying the Euro versions. Also releases ultimate versions of their fighting games within a year. Also bad PC ports from what I hear
• Sega: Well most of their games go the way of Capcom and/or need day one patches which may break other parts of the games
• Ubisoft: There's a reason why they are called Ubis--t instead of Ubisoft
• Square-Enix: tons of DLC, can't get games out on time, FFXV was promised by 2008, now coming in 2014
• Nintendo: still using kiddy graphics, refusing to grow up, not enough DLC for gamers, refusing to add online multiplayer to their game, focuses too much on kids and "casuals". Gamers hate them the most
• Nintendo also made gamers download a huge day 1 OS patch for the Wii U during the launch peroid to use the system.
• EA: well they did reskin this year's FIFA, ummm..... they did release Madden 25... they did refuse to release ME trilogy on Wii U but released ME3:U a week later at the same price.
• EA also gave people a free games in response to the Simcity launch debacle (the competition has never compensated users for their failures)
• EA now allows returns/exchanges of games within a week now (all retailers don't allow this, Valve refuses to implement this in Steam)
• EA is one of 4 companies allowing you to buy the PS4 or Xbox One digital version of games for $10 , if you have bought the PS3 or Xbox 360 versions this fall and holiday. (could be more companies by year's end)

Other than that EA really was one of the better gaming companies for 2013, though they did take cash from Apple which they are currently being hated for.

Isn't Apple still the most hated company due to their yearly hardware models which "screws" over consumers (yes this is the center of most of the Apple hate)?

The point is EA hate is severly dated, especially with their competition doing the same or worse practices.

I'm not defending EA, but pointing out how EA's business practices aren't the worst in the industry anymore (I'm looking at you Capcom).

I don't see any relevance in comparing Simcity 2013 with other companies, well I don't know because a game isn't the same thing as a company?

 

Anyone here probably and should have played Simcity 4 Deluxe Edition. You can tell right there that Maxis created SC4 for the player. The city size is huge, you get to build everything in your cities because not only the game already provided the basis (highway, yes where's the highway in SC2013), it also provided mod capability.

 

Then now SC2013 takes away all of that, can you not see the issue here? No. Let me elude you into the wow debacle.

 

Back then in wow burning crusade, you can make mass gold in few hours. You can kill anyone, anytime, and gank them for hours, sure nobody cares, even the game masters don't care. Dungeons were super easy and loots were obtainable by you. You don't need to play with a group, you don't have to be part of a guild. And yes you will be able to do everything like you would with a group, it just takes longer time. Then Activision bought Blizzard, then all of those awesomeness goes away.

 

Do you see the similarity here? Independent developers write the game for the players. Whereas huge conglomerate companies like EA write the game for the cash cow. I love the game, I just hate the fact that EA takes away the stability and essentiality of the game. I feel like EA just wants to make this game super super easy so that even a baby can build a huge city in few minutes. If you think about it, it's actually a very practical and yes very profitable strategy.

 

So yes I will want to sell my games to the 99.99% who won't be building complicate cities with intricated road connections, train, planes, train run over water, multiple municipal buses, multiple train stations, etc...they won't ever complain about these issues. And noone will ever notice hence.

  Edited October 11, 2013 by CaptCity  

[Griffon 19]

I agree with zapf Dingbats last post, I think EA designed SimCity2013 for anyone in the world to be able to play, I especially understood when he said that people don't want to build multiples of the same type of buildings, in this SimCity I usually only have one of each service building and one of each type of transportation, where as in previous games, I had tons of them (especially in SimCity2000, those people were always complaining about not enough police, fire, hospitals, or schools), I sometimes had multiple industry zones in SimCity4 if the city was large enough cause people didn't want to travel very far to get to their jobs, in SimCity2013 people will travel all over the region just for a job

 

I read many of the blog posts from EA/Maxis people they said the designed the city as a "city management" game not a "city building" game, if you want city building play CitiesXL and your cities in SimCity2013 is suppose to represent the most dense places in a city

 

although it is a "city management" game like they suggest, I would like bigger cities to have more to do and more to manage

 

in SimCity2013 I normally move on to a new city once I get $10mil, so I'm kinda hoping the cities of tomorrow expansion buildings cost millions of dollars to build, not likely but hopeful, where as in previous SimCity games I move on once I finish building the map I'm on

[reReticulated Spline 69]

 Do you see the similarity here? Independent developers write the game for the players. Whereas huge conglomerate companies like EA write the game for the cash cow.

 

Well, I'm a product designer and last time I checked, my mind hasn't been uploaded into my company's hivemind yet and I still care very much about creating good products, so I'm willing to bet the same goes for your average game designer. I think you are overlooking that there are a lot of different people with different motives who work at a company. Making Simcity more accesible to new players would have been the #1 goal for me too if I where a designer at Maxis, but then, I believe the 'difficulty' of SC4 mostly comes from very poor documentation and player-ingame-guidance than actual city design. 

 

Then, if I look at the top mods for SC4 which increase road capacity, free money, cheap garbage solutions, increase school effect radius, I get the feeling many players are more interested in being associated with a difficult game, than actually overcoming that difficulty. Most SC4 players now, seem more interested in sandboxing around, and the 'look' of the game than any gameplay challenge Maxis put in there once. 

[Zapf Dingbats 7]

Well, I'm a product designer and last time I checked, my mind hasn't been uploaded into my company's hivemind yet and I still care very much about creating good products, so I'm willing to bet the same goes for your average game designer. I think you are overlooking that there are a lot of different people with different motives who work at a company. Making Simcity more accesible to new players would have been the #1 goal for me too if I where a designer at Maxis, but then, I believe the 'difficulty' of SC4 mostly comes from very poor documentation and player-ingame-guidance than actual city design. 

 

Then, if I look at the top mods for SC4 which increase road capacity, free money, cheap garbage solutions, increase school effect radius, I get the feeling many players are more interested in being associated with a difficult game, than actually overcoming that difficulty. Most SC4 players now, seem more interested in sandboxing around, and the 'look' of the game than any gameplay challenge Maxis put in there once. 

 

Spline, I am glad that EA sent its best and brightest President of Product Marketing here to reply to my post, I am humbly touched.

 

FIRST - To buy simcity is to build cities, or not bo build? from Sim-speare

 

Why do you think players are so interested in sandboxing around and the "look of the game" Really? I mean who would buy Simcity 4 or Simcity 2013 to build their dream cities and simply just stare at the marvel of their magnificient cities right? I mean people probably buy Simcity to brew their coffee like Peter, my English bulldog. Sometimes bubu likes cream in his coffee too. I mean do you even know why Maxis created Simcity? Hint -> Read the word "city." Here's an example, World of Warcraft probably refers to a world of many wars that has craft in it. So Simcity probably means a city fill with Sims. So if I buy Simcity, I will do something with a city that has sims in it, whatever sims mean, I don't know people, and doing stuff with city probably means building one.

And when you said players don't like "any gameplay challenge Maxis put in there once," you don't mean completing challenges like creating your first residential zone, or reaching 1000 sims. Have you watched youtube and seen cities with over 1 billion sims? The built-in challenges are jokes. Any baby can overcome those in few clicks. Have you played those challenges? No? You aren't a product designer aren't you? Right, you are marketing, you sell. That brings us to the 2nd subject, accessibility

 

SECOND -  Accessibility

 

It is so irresponsible to say that you want to make simcity more accessible to new players but you remove 2 of the most accessible features in the game

1) The offline mode - of course, online means accessible and offline means in-accesible, hence off-line mode was removed, wow Why those 3000+ buyers on amazon complaining about this logical derivative?

2) The mods? Ding ding, that or your mother just got out of bed or because mods are too difficult to write and that means they are not very accessible, let's remove them too.

 

THIRD - many players are more interested in being associated with a difficult game, than actually overcoming that difficulty.

 

So you're saying I have logic and creativity skill but I do not want to use those skills to overcome difficulty in a difficult game even though I love playing difficult game very much, which prompted me to pay $30-$60 for a game, of which I know for a fact that is very difficult and very buggy to play, and that after I buy that game, I know for a fact that I will not want to overcoming the difficulty of playing the difficult game that I paid dearly for?

 

Ok ok I shut up, I see the point here. And please don't break my heart by telling me that I'm wrong.

 

I enjoy holding the game in my hands but I don't want to play it because it's too difficult. Omg I see it now, it's like saying I enjoy being around Justin Bieber but I don't want to overcome the difficulty of dealing with his bs. Stupid me.

 

Can you tell me why I built my city like below? Yes yes I like holding the game in my hand too.

 

- I build 2 stadiums,

- 3 expo centers,

- 6 sleek casinos,

- The willis building, empire state building, tokyo tower

- 5 ferries (boats),

- 2 airports,

- 4 municiple buses that come with 96 busses running around my avenues

- I also got 6 train stations,

- 80 thousands medium wealth sims,

- 16 thousands highwealth.

- 2 processor factories

- 4 electronic factories

- 1 trade depot

 

You know I really really want to build 3 stadiums but I run out of space. Oh EA, you just dont want me to have carpal tunnel by making the map size so tiny. Love you.

Oh yea and I also want to have over 1 million sims but that is as metaphysical as the upcoming Simcity 2013 patches. This saves me the trouble of installing patches and EA's time and money in developing them. Go team !

And the highways, subways, bicycle lanes, EA removed them all because I think they were too dangerous for my sims to use. After all, there are already mods that create those. But wait, those are just for look, not essential or anything right?

[macscfan 117]

What kept me playing was confidence that bigger cities would be coming eventually, since Maxis did seem to be listeneing and addressing concerns and that is the number 1 concern by far.

 

Major disappointment to hear this official news that it simply will not be happening.  I think I may finally pack up the game, offline mode may get me coming back occasionally, but I cannot see investing in any more expansions or DLC knowing that the map size will never increase.

 

This is me in a nutshell.  I'm done with it.  I played through the Windows version, waited for a Mac port that was ultimately buggy/laggier than it should have been, I've been through all of the updates, pleased with several of them that I felt showed good progress, but ultimately I'm not going to play this going forward. 

 

Offline mode tempts me a little bit, but it's the city size that does it for me.  I have a very hard time believing that they only came to this conclusion within the past two weeks.  I believe they knew of the size limitations before the game's launch - there is simply no way that they did not test larger cities before the launch.   I do believe they tried to come up with larger cities since the game's launch, but I feel that ultimately, they were stalling as long as they could in the hopes of fixing it.

 

They have said they can't fix it.  I am saying I won't play it.  They tried for several months, I played it off and on for several months, but ultimately I am done beta testing for a game that I paid for.

[aaronlbarta 6]

EYE CANDY TOPIC

I'm a fan.. I love SimCity... I think I'm a hardcore fan.... but to most of you all I would be seen as a casual SimCity fan. I don't develop mods, I read a lot of forums on here, and don't post a lot, I just like to play the game and download new content..... with this being said.....

 

I think what zapf Dingbats was trying to get across is that in the SimCity Journals on the site there is a lot of criticism and it does appear to be on how the 'eye candy' of the city looks.  I am amazed at some of the layouts.... but then I watch tutorials of NAM and RHW, let me tell you...... my opinion is too much work.... hell I'm trying to figure out FLUP's and it appears to be buggy. I think that's where he is coming from... along with.... the focus does get lost with too many cheats, but SimCity is a sandbox game so build as you want and do what you want. (that's my devils advocate to you Zapf)

 

I have been playing SimCity 4 for ten years..... I have only one region.... and play it from time to time and it is still not filled up..... I love this game... I do use the basic functions of NAM.... but think it's hilarious someone one makes a youtube video on how to build a city from scratch.... 30 minutes of time it takes to just get the RHW interchange system right..... I'm like OMG.... seriously....... I want to learn but hell. no way-- not thirty minutes.

 

Moving back to the original topic.

 

I think Maxis should be ashamed for what they did. They messed up big time. I feel cheated. Before the initial release they kept saying we will look at it down the road, we will look at it down the road (regarding map sizes) and I feel it is a big blow in the face.

 

SimCity was released in 1989 or 1987 (I was 6 at the time when I played it so I think 1989), I grew up with the game and have followed every series; after SimCity Societies I thought things couldn't get worse...... it did. SimCity 4 was the best incarnation of the game..... detailed through and through..... options were endless (well minor things irritated me hate drawing water pipes, but it was the best incarnation of the series.)

 

Why was SC4 so great??? -- detail and built around Will Wrights basic formula (Single Player Sandbox Game that made the term 'You play God').

 

I didn't care for the opening comments on their blog and how they have claimed to continually update the game. The updates...... first of all should have been included with the initial release..... if we went back to 1989 and Will Wright released the first version, unfinished.... the game would have had no momentum or sequels and would have been a failure..... and back then internet wasn't available it had to be a finished product....... Shame on MAXIS for making us, their customers beta testers. Their updates are no more than bug fixes because of a rushed, incomplete project.

 

Bigger Maps..... sorry the game is too limited with the small map size, I want to do this and that like SC4, so I have to start another city.... I love seeing my city grow and upgrade roads and go back and revitalize old areas that I thought... omg why did I build this, what was I thinking... I think we all love and experiencing how to make our city bigger and better.....

 

Price Point

 

As far as the 60 dollar game goes, be thankful you didn't pay 60 bucks back in 1989 for this version of the game because let me tell you.... game prices have remained the same, and are actually less expensive than they were 20 years ago ($60 in 1989 on a game vs. $60 in 2013).... People need to quit complaining about that.

 

I'll be waiting for SimCity 6........ if Maxis can get out of the grave they put the series in. Don't bother with an offline mode... probably wont happen, I only see one more additional expansion pack release after this Cities of Tomorrows stuff..... and offline wont matter size is too small.... I'm not waiting for modders to fix this game.. I'll play SC4 for another 10..... I still have room left in my original region..

 

Thanks everyone for listening to my ranting since I rarely post.

[Griffon 19]

I'm guessing your were saying that you don't like the new SimCity cause you said you you were gonna play SimCity4 for another 10 years? Sorry that was a lot to take in and I even read it twice.  Also were you trying to tell people to stop complaining?

And one more thing; working 10 years on one region??? I've made my own region from scratch (all ocean too), built up every city (except the large map cities), have around 2mil people in the region, started a second region, got it half full, and a quarter on a Mars mod region, all in 2 or 3 or 4 years then got bored of it.  And some of the small cities probably did take me 30mins to build.

 

Anyways, being completely honest, I think SimCity3000 was the most realistic SimCity game they made.  I like how the city progresses over a century instead of a few years and you gain more technology as your city grows (same in SimCity2000).  SimCity3000 has the largest maps in any SimCity game I've ever seen.  I can fit 2mil people into it's largest maps and the Cities aren't right next to each other, like in real life.  I've seen a ton of people complaining about how the cities in the new SimCity are so far apart.  In SimCity4 I could fit 300,000 to 400,000 people in my best medium map cities  and the cities were all right up next to each other other, unless the whole region is one city, that doesn't make sense to me. (btw I never could make successful large map city in that game, after about 200,000 to 300,000 people the RCI started to go negative)

 

AND another thing that made SimCity3000 the most realistic game was when the citizens of the city asked you for things (usually enable or disable ordinances) or told you how good or bad you were doing.  Also your city neighbors offered deals to sell or buy things from you (mostly wanting you to sell their garbage to you). That is what I miss the most from that game, I felt more like the mayor of the city instead of the city planner.  I've only played Tropico 4 but in that game the citizens vote to keep you in power (although you can refuse them from voting) and that adds even more realism to that game and I kinda wish they'd add that to SimCity, because that gives you more motive to keep the citizens happy.

 

As far as SimCity5 goes, yes they did make us "beta test the game by releasing an incomplete game," but at least they listened to the problems for the most part and I don't see any big problems in the game now (except that traffic still isn't what it should be but it's greatly improved since the release) and they are still fixing it (or so they say, I don't trust EA anymore), but I can't wait for modders to really improve the game to make it what it should have been.  I'm sure at least one person can made a mod for SimCity5 that allows for bigger maps.

 

If I were to design the next SimCity I'd combine all the good features of SimCity3000 and SimCity5 and Tropico (pretty much only the elections from that game).  I really like specializations in 5 and the wind that blows pollution across the region and city, that's a real problem in real life and adds to the realism (although I haven't seen pollution majorly effect other cities in 5 yet).  I don't really have an opinion on Great Works, other then I wish they'd add more kinds of them. I also like how we can't terraform, it adds to the challenge of the map, but then again it can also get boring playing the same maps over and over again, so solve this I'd make the maps random and they'd be different every time.  Graphics aren't the problem, CitiesXL has amazing realistic graphics, but SimCity would look boring if they looked like CitiesXL, I might include the option for real or "cartoonish" graphics (as I've seen people refer to them as).

 

Sorry if I got a little off topic, I'm kinda tired of reading posts about how everyone (or most people) is saying how terrible SimCity5 is and how superior SimCity4 is.  I'd personally rate them as (from best to worst) SimCity2000, SimCity3000, SimCity5, (CitiesXL), SimCity4, (Tropico4).  I put the non-Maxis games in parenthesis just incase you were wondering how I ranked them against the SimCity games and I've only played CitiesXL2012, which apparently never had any official updates.  I was looking for them yesterday and only found a 1.3 patch that a modder made.

 

I understand that is a lot to read too.

[William Gates 84]

Interesting. I am a bit surprised. I was pretty certain they were not going to increase city sizes in any meaningful way, but I thought they would at least make a token effort given all the fan rage and increase them by 50% - 100% (the result would still be pitfully small). But it turns out they didn't do even that. 

 

A tiny part of me was wishfully hoping that maybe they would institute an actual solution and say, increase city sizes AND give us the option to place cities directly next to each other so that we could build SC4-style regions. Anyways, since they have confirmed that city sizes will not increase, I guess that confirms the fact that I will never buy this game. What a shame. I really, really, really wanted to like this game.

 

 

[aaronlbarta 6]

Griffon,

 

Well said..... SimCity 3000 was a great game... I forgot about some of those features that were unique to that game. I loved that stuff. I couldn't wait till the year 1950... I think that's when highways were invented. haha.

 

I just feel SimCity 5 is too restrictive with what I would like it to be.... I was fine with it first, but the extra small maps don't make it do what I would like it to do, too restrictive... since the map size can't grow.... I don't see a reason to keep building a new city from scratch starting all over. I take time with my cities as you can see (I only have one region in my SC4 game.) I don't like playing with people.....I want my own region, I can have that.... but still..... the game size is so small, I understand they can't have everything in the original SC5 and were planning on expansions, but since the map size is so small you would have to start a city all over again to add new content.... it just seems restrictive

 

SC5 Pros

 

Better Graphics

Building Add-ons

Building on Diagonal Roads

Pollution Realistic

Got rid of water pipes and subways.

 

SC5 Cons

 

Map Size small.

Unrealistic highways as entrance to city, and city grows too fast, population numbers are not as realistic as SC4.

Sim Agents buggy (Glassbox isn't what they claim it is, they should have not have built it up before the release... they were wrong, SC4's sim agents was way more accurate in my opinion)

RCI zoning is not on tiles

Grass plopping is gone

Terraforming is gone

Great Works doesn't receive shipments properly

Game overall too restrictive, it's a good toy for a kid.... not a fan who grew up and learned their mistakes on the other SimCity's along the way.

 

 

The online play with people component doesn't work either...... people stop playing and I'm stuck in a region (if I can find one that's not full to start with or a bunch of abandoned crappy cities) where I can't do a great works.... that sucks.....

[Griffon 19]

I never said SimCity5 was without flaws.  I've been playing MMOs for the last 4 or 5 years and they are great if people play like they are suppose to.  I enjoy meeting and talking to people across the world that I will never see in real life.  I like playing SimCity5 with other people like that.  The last region I started I actually had 4 people join (it was Granite Lake).  I got $10mil before anyone else joined, then gifted them some money and started the solar farm.  I started talking to two of them.  One person was even helping me to build the great work.  Then one of them left, so I took over their city, finished the great work, and went to bed.  I started another city the next day and no one else played anymore.  If every region worked like that first day everyday, I'd say it's the best SimCity they made (ignoring the map sizes).  Fact is, that hardly ever happens to begin with and most people quit before Great Works can even be thought of.  I've recently started a solo region (I know I won't quit) and hoping that offline mode will be more exciting when it comes out and that a modder can expand map sizes.  I enjoy modding games but I don't think I'm that good and I've never uploaded any of my mods either.

 

The main reason I'm still playing SimCity5 is because it's more accessible for me to play, I've got a Mac with windows 7 boot.  SimCity4 doesn't work on either, but CitiesXL does and as you read I don't think it's better than SimCity5.  CitiesXL is boring to me, there is no fires, crime, or disasters; you build services for happiness (now that I think about it more maybe I should change it to last place lol).  Although if I had to choose between SImCity3000 and 4 to work on my computer I'd probably choose 3000.  Another reason I'm still playing SimCity5 is because of the DLC and I'm waiting for offline mode and the new expansion to come out, but that will probably be the last thing I buy for it.  (My two favorite themes in games have always been medieval/fantasy games like Skyrim and futuristic/Si-Fi games like the new expansion.  I also really like 1st person games, so Skyrim was awesome when I first started paying it.)

[reReticulated Spline 69]

Spline, I am glad that EA sent its best and brightest President of Product Marketing here to reply to my post, I am humbly touched.

 

You're welcome! And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 

Here's the thing: you want to blame the developers for the map size? Sure go ahead. They chose to go with an agent system which couldn't support very large maps. If you feel this is an unacceptable tradeoff, all the power to you and please tell the developers that so they can take this into acount for the next game how important map size is. Same goes for other design choices.

 

If you want to blame the developers that the game is forcibly online, or that modding wasn't included in the release or the price or such things, you're just going after the wrong people. That's simply not their decision to make. In fact, some of the original developers left saying they thought it was a disgrace how the game was treated by EA. How is blaming their collegues and the people who replaced them over that fair?

 

But then, I'm just EA's marketing president. What would I care about who's hold responsible for what.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

Spline, I am glad that EA sent its best and brightest President of Product Marketing here to reply to my post, I am humbly touched.

You're welcome! And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Here's the thing: you want to blame the developers for the map size? Sure go ahead. They chose to go with an agent system which couldn't support very large maps. If you feel this is an unacceptable tradeoff, all the power to you and please tell the developers that so they can take this into acount for the next game how important map size is. Same goes for other design choices.

If you want to blame the developers that the game is forcibly online, or that modding wasn't included in the release or the price or such things, you're just going after the wrong people. That's simply not their decision to make. In fact, some of the original developers left saying they thought it was a disgrace how the game was treated by EA. How is blaming their collegues and the people who replaced them over that fair?

But then, I'm just EA's marketing president. What would I care about who's hold responsible for what.

Well I'm buying what your selling! The important part of all of this that none of us really know what the working relationship between EA and Maxis is like.

We are working off speculation and taking a scatter gun approach when assigning blame. In reality I suspect that neither party is entirely blameless but at least someone seems to be working to fix the problems.

What may be worth speculating on is how much this maintenance would be costing. EA have this reputation of being all about the money when it comes to making games but you would have to think that they are eating into their margins by having teams of people dedicated to patches and updates.

Like I say this is speculation so there is no evidence to support the theory but it does indicate that the parties on the other side of the fence feel that this is a good game worth investing more time in.

If I keep this up maybe one day I can get a job in the EA marketing department!

[StoNe220022 159]

My issue is:

Most of the people complaining about the 'fail game' and small map size...you are actually the contributor towards the amazing success of this game. That's right, SimCity 2013 was a success...sold 1.2 million copies within the first two weeks of release. It is evidence that poor design, and an average developing budget can still equate to a successful software product targeted at the appropriate target audience.

Anyone who spent money on this

1) endorsed the current business model

2) supports the DLC that makes the revenue for EA/Maxis

3) supports DRM and online only

Sorry but..your $$ tells EA it's fine. you need to realize, you 'not playing this anymore' doesn't count as a vote...you voted when you swiped your credit card. Smartest thing EA/Maxis can do right now..stop wasting dev effort on fixing bugs, as that won't generate revenue, keep focusing on DLC and charging $10 for theme parks, zeppelin transport, future high rise buildings...and who knows, maybe you'll all fork out $40 for a Zombie/Halloween/Spook City themed expansion pack.

You joke about it, but you'll pay for it...this game is making a killing based on the effort they put in. Dig through my older posts written a year ago, long before release complaining about 'what is wrong' about SC2013...I seem to have an uncanny ability to predict the future.

Here's my next prediction...SimCity 2014 will sell just as many copies, and make a a greater return on investment, as they'll use the existing Glassbox engine to produce it. People will complain, but they'll also buy it

[specializedguy 193]

Not only that but the game is so incredibly boring that people are willing to spend money on DLC in the HOPE it can be better, making large city maps offline would negate most people having to purchase DLC.

 

 

The blog addresses such a comment. If you think the game is boring, I hope you didn't buy it. If you did buy it, put it on the shelf and move on. It's simple.

 

I no longer have a bit of respect for Maxis. To me they are toast. I have decided I will be forming a game company to build a new city simulator, I'll be running a kickstarter on it by early next year.

 

Great. Post it up so we can all have a look.

[SAGGG 47]

My issue is:

Most of the people complaining about the 'fail game' and small map size...you are actually the contributor towards the amazing success of this game. That's right, SimCity 2013 was a success...sold 1.2 million copies within the first two weeks of release. It is evidence that poor design, and an average developing budget can still equate to a successful software product targeted at the appropriate target audience.

Anyone who spent money on this

1) endorsed the current business model

2) supports the DLC that makes the revenue for EA/Maxis

3) supports DRM and online only

Sorry but..your $$ tells EA it's fine. you need to realize, you 'not playing this anymore' doesn't count as a vote...you voted when you swiped your credit card. Smartest thing EA/Maxis can do right now..stop wasting dev effort on fixing bugs, as that won't generate revenue, keep focusing on DLC and charging $10 for theme parks, zeppelin transport, future high rise buildings...and who knows, maybe you'll all fork out $40 for a Zombie/Halloween/Spook City themed expansion pack.

You joke about it, but you'll pay for it...this game is making a killing based on the effort they put in. Dig through my older posts written a year ago, long before release complaining about 'what is wrong' about SC2013...I seem to have an uncanny ability to predict the future.

Here's my next prediction...SimCity 2014 will sell just as many copies, and make a a greater return on investment, as they'll use the existing Glassbox engine to produce it. People will complain, but they'll also buy it

I based my purchase on the look and belief that EA would improve the game, not only on patch updates, but also on their enlarging the maps. Otherwise, they wouldn't have informed us that they could not, or would have informed us that they couldn't in the first place, which more than likely, I suspect, would have caused many more people to not have purchased the game. Yes, I knew about the online situation and didn't care about that after they straightened out the sever issue, but NOT the map situation. Unless said maps are enlarged, which I understand that they will NOT be, I will not play this game anymore. And your prediction that EA will sell as many copies will be wrong as well on SimCity 2014, especially if they use the same Glassbox engine, and not enlarge the maps. It should very interesting if they happen to do it for the next game. If they do, then clearly they should have done it for SimCity 2013.

 

Also, I might add, that any good snake oil salesman can sell anything. The game looked good, heck, it looked great. But I believe I was mislead about those maps. EA really pulled one over on me, and believe you me, I'm NOT joking when I complain about spending my hard earned moolah on it...

[Ocram's Razr 964]

If you dig through some of my older posts, you will see that I told people to NOT buy the game within 1 month after release. I told them wait until an inevitable price drop, or if you are desperate for preorder bonuses, then preorder. Little did I know that the preorder bonuses would be included in the more expensive version. Of course the $20 price drop made the more expensive version priced the same as the normal version near release.

I eventually bought the game this month. The price had already dropped and won't drop any further for a while, I wanted to play the game, Cities of Tomorrow had been announced, and I learned that offline mode and mods would arrive soon enough. I knew that larger real cities were out of the question from the get-go (if they wanted to keep the minimum requirements reasonable) but I have been hoping to see maps with Regional Minor Works (suburbs, landfills, regional parks, reservoirs, working forests, fishing village, and/or farms).

--Ocram