A Different Perspective...

[CaptCity 4,915]

Yes, cost has been raised in numerous places as a concern, but that's not the focus of this topic.

[zogleheros 2]

I fear SimCity is going the same way a lot of other games went, especially Civilization 5. Watered down, simplified to the extreme, one or two core mechanics the series always had traded for something else and sold as a new genius mechanics that just doesn't cut it, released full of bugs, offering tons of expensive and useless DLCs, limited or inexistant beta to hide the lack of depth of the game.

 

Well that's what I fear, I didn't play the Beta, I just described what was Civ 5 at its release. Does it feel similar to you ? And then there was always the guy who said "look at the game from a different perspective" and who enjoyed the game. I'm actually looking forward to the release, and hope it won't be the disaster Civ 5 was for long-time fans of the series, but so many games follow this trend nowadays that the critics I read have become very familiar. 

 

Only Blizzard games seem to somewhat avoid this trend, but while other games fail because they want to change too many things at once, their games have actually the opposite flaw, that is to say they don't innovate and take enough risks in their designs.

 

Still I'd prefer more caution from developers, it's cool to change things, but very easy to mess up, and I really really really dislike this new trend of taking the consumer for a dumb and simplifying games to the extreme. What's the point of a gestion game if you can't min/max anymore ?

[nhgriffith 179]

What CORE mechanics that Civ5 "always had" was removed for Civ5?

And what CORE mechanic that SimCity has "always had" was removed from SC2013?

[Towel 76]

I fear SimCity is going the same way a lot of other games went, especially Civilization 5. Watered down, simplified to the extreme, one or two core mechanics the series always had traded for something else and sold as a new genius mechanics that just doesn't cut it, released full of bugs, offering tons of expensive and useless DLCs, limited or inexistant beta to hide the lack of depth of the game.

 

Well that's what I fear, I didn't play the Beta, I just described what was Civ 5 at its release. Does it feel similar to you ? And then there was always the guy who said "look at the game from a different perspective". I hope it won't be the disaster Civ 5 was for long-time fans of the series, but so many games follow this trend nowadays that the critics I read have become very familiar. 

 

Only Blizzard games seem to somewhat avoid this trend, but while other games fail because they want to change too many things, their games have actually the opposite flaw, that is to say they don't innovate and take enough risks in their designs (StarCraft 2, Diablo 3). Still I'd prefer more caution from developers, even if the game is not as great as previous ones i'd still be in familiar waters, and at least Blizzard games are not riddled with bugs and DLCs.

 

The guys at SimCity Hall who went to the community day made it pretty clear the game is in no way dumbed down. They go as far as to say it will be significantly harder to produce working cities in the long term than previous games. 

 

The beta was apparently simplified so that players could get to medium density quite easy, however the final product is "balanced" differently.

[zogleheros 2]

What CORE mechanics that Civ5 "always had" was removed for Civ5?

And what CORE mechanic that SimCity has "always had" was removed from SC2013?

 

Obviously :

- stacking more than 1 unit / tile. That destroyed the whole balance of the game.

- local hapiness. That destroyed the rest of the balance.

 

As for Sim City, I don't know, that's a guess, what do you think it will be ?   

 

 

The guys at SimCity Hall who went to the community day made it pretty clear the game is in no way dumbed down. They go as far as to say it will be significantly harder to produce working cities in the long term than previous games. 

 

The beta was apparently simplified so that players could get to medium density quite easy, however the final product is "balanced" differently.

 

 

I hope. The videos I've seen looked cool, but one can always wonder what they are trying to hide with such small beta time.

[nhgriffith 179]

So...

I don't know really what changed specifically with happiness in Civ5. And I haven't played every Civ game, but I've played a lot of them. But I don't understand how any of this "destroyed the whole balance of the game." Did it change the balance and force long time players to take a new approach? Sure. But... if you didn't want them to change the game at all, why would you even want them to release a new game? Why wouldn't you just keep playing the older game that you've already paid for and don't have to buy? I actually enjoyed the move away from unit stacking. I thought it made the game more balanced.

But nevermind Civ...

You're toasting SimCity for removing core mechanics that it has always had, and you can't list one? You're hating on the game, for literally no reason, other than that you're GUESSING something vital to the game has been removed based on... what evidence?

[zogleheros 2]

Well, it would take long and it's not the place to do so, I'll be brief. Hapiness went global instead of local : you captured new cities your whole empire went angry for 50 turns and it was game over. Probably the most telling example, but that caused other problems too. One unit per tile destroyed not only the tactics of fighting, because exploiting the IA became so simple, but it also unbalanced all the production aspect in the cities, and even with crazy build times, you ended up with one unit on each tile of the map and the game became unplayable. But as you just said, some people enjoy it more this way, it depends on one's way to play.

 

I admit I'm making wild guesses on Sim City, I'm saying all the critics I've read so far makes me think of Civ 5, I'm not hating the game yet. There's one point I'm particularly concerned about, it's the small size of the maps. The other point is that usually, when you change a lot of mechanics, it's easy to mess up and disappoint long-time fans.

[Hoipus 292]

What CORE mechanics that Civ5 "always had" was removed for Civ5?

And what CORE mechanic that SimCity has "always had" was removed from SC2013?

Not sure whether you'd consider reloading from earlier saves, terraforming(terrain editor in classic), the ability to determine how the city connects to other cities and the ability to determine funding for your departments 'core mechanics', but they are all not present in the new SimCity.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Kythlyn: "

I believe the most fundamental aspect of SimCity is laying out zones and watching them grow as you nuture them."

 

Indeed. This is why the new SC beats Simutrans, Open TTD, etc for me. The most fundamental aspect of a simulation is one 'gardens' the city, not 'plops' it.

 

Soldyne: "so the online thing. I don't like it, you don't like it, very few people actually find it a plus aside from the corporations. however, this is the way the entire industry is moving. even The Elder Scrolls series which has been a single player game for decades is going online...a very sorry state, but, there is nothing anyone can do about it. What gets me riled up is that people blame EA as if they are the only ones or even the first ones to do this but they aren't."

 

True. And I agree with the first post sentiment to an extent too. Corporations, love them or hate them, must cover their running costs. A finite charge of 40 or so pounds is something even those on Jobseekers benefits can afford if they don't waste their money. And after all, and I wil stress this, Simcity being a simulation of a economy to a great extent, surely us Simcity Mayors should appreciate the importance of balancing a budget!

 

"have no problem debating how to address the issues of small city sizes, region play, adding new features, modding or similar topics. but when it comes to issues that are industry standards that no one without their own multimillion dollar company can have any impact to change then there is no reason to bring it up all. everyone hates it, no one has the power to change it, there is nothing else to discuss."

 

True. At any rate, Simtropolis isn't the place. This is a forum specifically for city simulation games, particularly Simcity. The present state of the video gaming industry seems an alien, if connected, issue.

 

Kythlyn: "In the worst case scenario in which the servers are shut down, the game becomes impossible to play and we cannot access our files, I will boycott EA forever. But that day has not yet come for SimCity."

 

They won't shut them down. What's a couple of servers to EA? Employing staff = $$$$$$$. Couple of servers: $.

 

Simmerboy: "I doubt EA would shut down Simcity servers until at least a new Simcity game is developed, which probably will be a LOT better."

 

Indeed. That is my hope and my reccomendation to Maxis.

 

Jim:"City simulation games are not dead and they will never be dead as long as humans walk the earth. When I was a child my cousins and I drew cities in the dirt along the banks of streams or where ever we could. We had "houses", "trees", "boats", and "cars" and I suspect children have done similar since the dawn of time. "

 

I had the luxury of pencils and paper, but yes, this is true. The hypothetical death of the Simcity franchise does not necessarily indicate the death of city simulation.

 

Trioxis: "the market doesn't just include fans of the SimCity genre (i.e. this community) but also includes a vast majority of other people who are not fans. Maxis doesn't NEED to cater to the wishes of the fans in order for the game to be a commercial success"

 

Indeed. Which is why during the '5 will never happen' years I repeatedly suggested streamlining all efforts towards tghe making of an independent project. For any still interested, head over to the BoomTown forum. That project may well succeed.

 

Kegge: "Perhaps NAM inspired Maxis to include GLR?"

 

Or ground light railways did

 

Cahos Veloza: "ust so everyone knows, I'm one of those not thoroughly impressed by the glassbox engine. Yes it is a better simulation of SIM activity within your city, but that's what SIMCity is NOT Originally about. The game was originally about you managing your resources (Budget) in order to build and maintain a thriving city. The SIM inhabitants were just some numerical value you had to work into your management plan to keep your city living."

 

So your idea of the ideal city simulation is a city with statistical inhabitants? I always thought that the one thing lacking most in Simcity 2000 were actual citizens

 

"Heck even in SC4 the SIMs can whine about not having a hospital or school"

 

Hospitals and schools tend to be regarded as important... Wha are cities without citizens? Sculptures on a colossal scale, possibly. But hardly worth simulating.

 

Trioxis: "Besides that, I would argue that keeping the citizens happy or at least make sure their problems are dealt with is a very important part of managing a city. "

 

Precisely.

 

Mandelsoft: "note regarding the traffic simulator of the NAM: it enables a property a smarter route finding algorhythm that was intentionally de-activated by Maxis, because the average PC was not powerful enough to handle it when the game was released. So the game wasn't really broken; they locked away the full power because otherwise the game would be un-playable right out of the box."

 

Indeed. Just like our small tile sizes in this game. Give it time I say

 

Sunfighter: "There are 2 factions in the simcity universe.Those that like watching the ants more than building the ant farm and those that dont give a crap about the ants and spend all their time on crafting the ant farm.This simcity is more for those that like staring at their ants.Not sure its the correct direction to go considering the failure of Simcity:Socities...but i suppose we will see."

 

An ant farm without ants is a small mound of mud with a hole at the top.

 

Captain City: "but that's not an uncommon practice. A simple analogy would be the movie industry with all the sequels and remakes of years gone by and especially the "reboots" of the past few"

 

Indeed. I sometimes wish they'd only made the first Star Wars sometimes...

 

Zogelheros: "fear SimCity is going the same way a lot of other games went, especially Civilization 5. Watered down, simplified to the extreme"

 

So GlassBox, with its accurate real simulation of individual entities as opposed to graphical representation in a loose way of vague statistical data, is 'watered down' and 'simplified to the extreme'? Going to have to side with Ocean on this one

 

Towel: "The guys at SimCity Hall who went to the community day made it pretty clear the game is in no way dumbed down. They go as far as to say it will be significantly harder to produce working cities in the long term than previous games. The beta was apparently simplified so that players could get to medium density quite easy, however the final product is "balanced" differently."

 

Indeed.

 

As for my own opinion, my perspective changed recently. I had initially decided to buy the game as soon as news of it came. Later after hearing about the various concerns we all know and love to discuss I decided to do the rebel thing and not buy it. Later I joined the BoomTown project. I remain with that project, but have decided to purchase the game as 1. It's the only title I've purchased in the past half decade so it's not a financial issue like for regular gamers, 2. It's by Maxis and it's Simcity, 3. GlassBox and 4. One hopes that further improvements will come in time, either by updates or new releases. One is cautiously optimistic. Besides, what other game is going anywhere near the right direction? I'd much rather this than Cities XL any day. But that's naturally just my opinion.