Future of SimCity Official Discussion Thread

[Micah 16]

I agree with you too, pedronic. Don't like City Life as much as I like Simcity. Wow, this has to be the first time I've ever gone to this thread... probably will be the last time too.

And yes, it's Canadian, pedronic. In fact, the Canadian flag is at the bottom of this page. lol

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Canada deserves its due notice!

Great Flag,

Strong musical roots,

Rich history and a desert, just for starters and the number one best thing about Canada is,.................do I even have to say it?

ST will live forever

[pedronc 0]

hum ok... portuguese here

[pedronc 0]

ooops this repost my message.. i cant delete?

some admin / moderator delete them please

OK, fixed.  Only one left.  NOB.

[GreekMan 246]

the only problem with these ideas is that your computer is slower now. I hope a new sim city game comes out,but my computer is going to go slow.

[LeedsLaddie 0]

I reckon it'd be great if you could start your city way back and mimic the development of some of the older cities in the world. Like the old cobbled streets in York, and maybe allow the architecture to develop through different eras.

Also, be able to add in slum areas or shanty towns like you get in some cities across the world.

Have all the additonal transportation types available through the NAM, and include cycleways, pedestrian routes, bus lanes, HOV lanes, high speed rail links, congestion charging and seemless underground to overground transit (like in London).

Something I'd also love is to be able to do schemes with specific areas of the city (maybe recycing initiatives, sustainable travel initiatives etc), commuter travel plans etc.

And how about being able to host the Olympics, World Cup etc if you have good enough sports facilities etc. That could add a whole new dimension via the net as people could compete for these 'awards' and then get extra money i they manage to host them well.

I do think that it needs to stay a bit cartoony in terms of graphics though and hope they resist the temptation to for the realistic approach taken by games like Total War etc. I dont think this would suit Sim City. I'd prefer more options and greater realism for the way the city or region functions rather than a DRASTIC graphical overhaul. But graphical impovements would be good to an extent.

[Barf 0]

Seeing as how Sim City 4 is essentially unaccomodating to players that are new to the series, and given the direction Will Wright has taken with Spore, I believe it is very likely that Sim City 5 will be placing the most emphasis on on two things: algorithmic/procedural programming and content, and moddability.

I can see lot designs being much more procedural, for starters.  For example: instead of lot files that have prop A and ground texture B at location (X,Y), the game will generate, assign, and place buildings, props, and textures based on multiple factors, such as wealth, population density, surrounding lots/tiles, climate, etc.  You'd get things like fences between wealthier and poorer properties, ground textures that extend from their lot to the edge of an adjacent (diagonal) road and gracefully blend in to each other, parking lots that always appear to have proper road access, and land contours that remain natural (as opposed to entire lots being built on top of ugly and unrealistic platforms).  It would also make things easier for the modding community, because everything would be the Sim City 4 equivalent of a dependency.

It would also mean that more subtle variation in the width of various roads and lots could exist--there'd be no more suburban streets as wider than anyone's house, for starters.  More importantly, though, would be the effect your initial construction would have on the surrounding area's ability to grow; when the time comes to widen a road for increasing traffic, it may not actually be possible because the proximity of various buildings to the street is too close.  Such a problem can be prevented with an ordinance that requires a certain amount of space between a building and the "main" roads, but you risk ending up with wasted developement space if the roads end up never needing to be widened.  Compensation to landowners would have to be paid in order to widen a road, too.

The game could also generate realistic-looking suburbs from large areas of zoned land; streets, property lines, and other factors would all be handled automatically by the "realtor" that initially buys the land from the city.  This would increase the importance in planning your zoning, because wealthier sims will only move into smaller lots than normal if the business opportunities (industrial/commercial demand) are high enough.  Thus, your zoning would specify both development type (suburbs, apartments, etc.) and individual lot size (small, medium, or large).

Additionally, an area could be specified as park land; and then the player could either choose to let the game generate the park automatically, or personally design a layout specifically for that location.

I've already spent way too long typing up this post, though, so I won't go into possible ways that micromanagement and over-complexity could be minimized; however, I will note that the extent of procedural/algorithmic automation of city design and management could be specified by the player to suit his/her preferences.

I'll end by saying that something I can't see very easily is a Sim City 5 that is graphically both entirely 3-D and aesthetically equal or superior to Sim City 4; the models would be more numerous, and vastly more complex, than in Civ IV (which is a game that's already very demanding in terms of system requirements).

[HawaiiBill 0]

As a bonafide newbie here, I disagree that Sim City 4 is "essentially unaccomodating to players that are new to the series." As it came from the box, there was a good user manual -- good but lacking details that must be very difficult to pack into a game's 'how-to' for folks who haven't tried it yet. SC's learning curve is very steep. Short of a free trip to somewhere for a weekend or more of intense personal training, what's a game management to do?

Most of Barf's problems seemed to be of details that, frankly, wouldn't change the end result of the game much. In my few entries here I've sought some careful consideration of actual planning principles that are frequently ignored or worse in the way Sim City values many elements. Water doesn't 'cost revenue' for an easy example because in any jurisdiction I've ever seen made lots of revenue selling water to the residents. Digging wells, laying pipe and such is paid for with low-interest 30-year bonds, the most common instrument in any element of government design. Reason: Everybody needs water, is definitely going to have the service and drink the product plus pay their reasonable billing.

Yes, recently, good water is threatening to become scarce. Sim City was an early warning system for that with the automatic need for water purification long before it became a concern commonly faced by most areas. That's a great quality in a game of this nature, far more important than using valuable memory to put fencing between poor and rich residents.

I am very happy with Sim City 4 and both pleased and amazed with the level of help that has been sent my way on this and other forums and a few direct e-mails. All of that has been 'beyond the call' and evidence of a  Sim community 'out here' that makes learning the details and intricities of the game possible to learn.

Thank you, everyone, for that attitude...

[ThingFromTheDeep 5]

I did not read the whole thread, and this prolly was mentioned already, buuut...

The only thing missing to me, seriously, is a better 'U-Drive-It' mode.

What i'd like? Integrate the NFS Engine with the SimCity one, for REAL driving in your city. I'd happily pay $100 for a game that let me choose a car, and drive in my own city. Something like GTA, but, without the guns and violence.

[HawaiiBill 0]

Perhaps, ThingFrom TheDeep, there is a group designing a program for folks with very powerful systems and an interest in massive code sufficient to meet that request. As for me, I'd like to spend that $100 to fix a problem or two on my car here so I could better drive around my beautiful Hawai`i.

I'm in full accord, however, that SC4's 'drive around the park' leaves lots to be desired. In my case the wish is to delete that feature and use the code to improve zoom and pan.

[jakus500 0]

Nothing to contribute... just testing my Author picture.

[jakus500 0]

Woo it does

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Welcome to our conversation.  That's a nice avatar, but you didn't need to bump your post to comment on it.  Next time, just push the Edit button.

[Bill_Gates 2]

I'd like to add to all these great ideas

First of all, a 3D view! (wouldn't it be great to view your city in the perspective of your sims?)

Secondly, more custom content friendly (no more scrolling the menus for minutes to plop a custom building)

Furthermore, smarter AI (for God's sake use the highway, not the road that runs parallel to it!)

And lastly, a more integrated region for a smoother transition between the cities. It's really annoying to see a dead end to your city. The world is not a square! At least make it so that you can see (but not control) the fringes of neighbouring cities so you don't have to guess where to make the connections.

One question, I'm not an expert on 3D modelling but can it be made possible so that the unrendered BAT buildings can be ported to Sim City 5? It would be a shame to see all these beautiful work go to waste when SC5 comes out.

[HawaiiBill 0]

Let's see if I got this right. You wrote, "It's really annoying to see a dead end to your city." I thought it was pretty clear in the instructions that you could draw any transportation line -- road, railroad, etc. -- to the edge of your city's region and have smooth connection to adjoining square. Was that not clear? You can do the same thing with water lines or power lines and probably some other techniques I haven't discovered.

Then, drawing from the other square there are little nubs along the edge indicating where to connect roads, etc.,  between the cities across the edges of the squares. Important for the economy, too.

Or did I miss something?

[Zalev 0]

I hate the rush hour expansion. I don't want to make money like that, I want to make it running the city, not driving around arcade like. Much respect to those who love it.

I would love if they introduce population competition in-game.

Example: There should be a "World" population (starts small, with small increases)

My city and the neighboring cities should be "competing" to see who attracts these people. I build an amusement park. Some of the neighbors citizens move to my city. One of them lowers commercial  taxes. Some companies move that way. etc etc.

Another neighboring city offers free health care.. some people move out of my city. "flocks fly to neighborville in search of better healthcare."

It is common sense that people will move to places to look for a better life. If I see a city that has plenty of parks, lower taxes, good schools,and good police, less pollution and good jobs.. I'M MOVING!.  (of course you cant have all that)

With this system, some neighboring cities/towns can become ghost towns. while others can become overpopulated  (which is bad too)

The mayors will have to balance recreation, taxes and other things just to keep the citizens.

We should be able to label county zones. That you can make suburbs, that will later become part of the city when the city reaches it. The suburbians might protest too, and even move as the cities crimes overwhelmes it.

[Bill_Gates 2]

Originally posted by: HawaiiBill Let's see if I got this right. You wrote, "It's really annoying to see a dead end to your city." I thought it was pretty clear in the instructions that you could draw any transportation line -- road, railroad, etc. -- to the edge of your city's region and have smooth connection to adjoining square. Was that not clear? You can do the same thing with water lines or power lines and probably some other techniques I haven't discovered.

Then, drawing from the other square there are little nubs along the edge indicating where to connect roads, etc.,  between the cities across the edges of the squares. Important for the economy, too.

Or did I miss something?quote>

Um ... I have a region with 6 million sims so i think i know how to connect the cities. What I meant was that it would be nice to see parts of the other cities when you're playing so that you have an idea of what to build, where to make the precise connections... etc.

[HawaiiBill 0]

Ah, I stand corrected.

As we stare longingly toward a SimCity5 era, it could be the concept of varying installations be considered based on the amount of RAM and hard drive space available. What you suggest is fairly popular in this thread and deserves consideration but memory management as presently posted would have to be radically different. When you zoom out to bring in neighboring regional chunks you invite chaos or, as they say in programming circles, turbulence to a scale difficult to predict. I think that is already the source of many of the unwelcome SC4 crashes we all enjoy so much.

In my view the code for SC4 is admirable for its management of so many varied tasks. There could be a good book on the techniques brought to bear but that may be as secret as Coke's menu!

[patriots_1228 51]

I could sit here all day and list what i want in sc5, so ill give 5-10 things i want.

 different buildings- On one city, I have the same skyscraper 7 times on one road. ITs really annoying. On one street that goes theres about 20 CS$ lots. at least 15 of em are flea markets. It looks really weird when you have the same building over and over again.

2. Weather- I would like to see weather play a bigger role in your city. You should be able to zone out a ski resort thats just empty land in the summer. then it snows, and the land responds, with a ski popping up. Say it rains, traffic would go slower and streets would have less pedestrians, like real life. Instead  of blaming FEMA, we should be able to see what happens when disasters like hurricanes pop up unexpectibly in our citys, instead of being able to decide when the disaster happens.

3. Worldwide events.- City next to YOur city builds an army base. Outcome- city looks gloomy, war breaks out. Famine in the city nextdoor, your city holds an event to give food to them. Regions should act like real regions. Does South korea borrow water from North korea?Citys realationships should determine the neighbordeals that exist(or dont) between them.

4.Sports teams-on sc4, why do we pend 50,000 for a ballpark that dosnt get used. City planner pops up and says" mayor______ would you like to bring a *sport* francise to _______(city)

5.  City calander- Your city should have a calender, in which you use to schedule city events. scheduling a town meeting or fourth of july celbration will send your mayor rating flying, well throwing an exclusive party will raise R$$$ and lower R$

Im out of time so i might post more ideas, or not, idk

[manman99 2]

I want it to have better graphics.  I want to be able to go to the top of the tallest building in my city and look out on every angle of my city and take photographs at that image.  I want it to have better disasters.  Hurricanes, floods, actual thunderstorms, etc.  Thats wut I wish it would have.  But thats wut I also think its gonna be like.  (hopefully)

Edit: Or to be able to play your sim down on the city streets.  Get in a cab and see wut your city is like from a sims view.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

I think the reason why new players have trouble with Sim City isn't because the game is complex, it's because it's realistic.  People think, "I'm doing this, why aren't the sims responding like they're supposed to?"  Making the game more logical would help this.

[FreewayofFlight 41]

Personally, I think it might be tough for SimCity 5 to be sold, because alot of us have computers that may not support all the data required to run the game. All our ideas are undeniably intresting and potentially great, but it might cause our computers to crash and burn resulting in real frustraiton to potential players worldwide. But putting that aside, here's my wishlist for SC5...

1.) buildings that can be built facing diagonal streches of road, or even buildings like the Flatiron Building in New York City.

2.) One powerplant that can an entire region instead of only reaching a few cities.

3.) A regional terraform tool, cause it's annoying, time consuming, and difficult to sculpt, save, load and repeat... also, I think the Real-City Terrain from SimCity 3000 was a great idea!

4.)More diverse transit options, like four-lane roads, 3x lane oneway roads, wider freeways, and a tool that you can use to customize your own off/on ramps off freeways(instead of the diamond ramps, clover-leaf, and 3 level stack), like ramps you see in cities like Los Angeles (or any downtown freeway.)

5.) Different bridge styles, like raising/swing bridges.

6.) More disasters, like floods, better earthquakes (with opening faults!), and lightning that can knock out electricity

7.) Financial aid after disasters (to rebuild a city destroyed) even if you 'did' cause the disaster

8.) Also, I'd like to see the Mag-Lev Trains introduced into SimCity, since they're being tested in Germany and Japan, it might be a good idea to see there ability to move sims from Point A to Point B in 1 minute or less!

Well, that's my two cents. I'll be watching this thread!

[Safrani 0]

My dream of SC5, I would put a little history in it

When the game starts, you can choose from 5 different centuries to start your city in.

1600 1700 1800 1900 2000

don't like history? just click the year 2000

your building possibilities depend on each century and change during gameplay:

1600: the goal is colonizing your region with small farm towns and cities (with perhaps forts and city walls)

1700: trade grows so your harbours grow, cities grow, and farm towns grow as well because the demand for spices grows

1800: the richest people of your region demand industrial zones in the centre of the cities / high residential zones to drop the poor employees in

1900: new technologies become available, cement and steel buildings, and also more tourism possibilities that like to see the history of your cities

2000: the simcity as you know it, the only difference is that your cities now have a history beyond themselves, lot's of cities have history, think about the old part and the new part of town, you can still see within the infrastructure of a city how it has grown into a big city, and NOW YOUR LANDMARKS WILL LIVE FOR REAL and are not just plopped buildings on your screen

Also I don't think putting war in the game is as freaky as you think => just count it in as a disaster that you will have to fight against, and add just a few new facilities (not exaggerated) like city walls, castles, military camps (wich are now in simcity 4 but are useless), even United Nations (for peacekeeping), etc... whenever you like testing your city defenses you click WAR and see what happens. The way the war disaster appears would depend on the century you are playing in.

It would also be nice if the game was in 3D like City Life. I bought it, it is not as nice as SC4 but the 3D is a must! The only thing I like about City Life is that you can place and curve your roads however you like it, and your buildings too.

As for the rest I think you people are a little too demanding, I saw a list somewhere (it was soooo long!!) and I thought: what a waist of time!!!

I hope you like my ideas! maybe I'll post some pictures later so you can see how I try to build cities with history in SC4

See you

[HawaiiBill 0]

Good post, Safrani, and that concept of historic eras is exciting. SimCity was brought to my attention because of it's potential in urban planning. That should be urban/rural but the fact is the profession doesn't do enough with rural thinking though there are exceptions such as Montgomery County in Maryland.

My only problem with SC stems from the planning connection because many of the fundamental concepts are just wrong. Making water available and clean, for example, is not revenue negative. Same with power but it costs for these and other facilities in ways that I haven't found producing positive revenue either downstream with better development or short-term. The monthly costs keep on but perhaps there is something I'm missing.

SC is hard to "win" with good planning objectives and that change would not be a burden on system memory, etc. SC5, if it happens, could be made closer to how it is 'out here' -- and more fun -- with some professional planning consultation...or just read some books.

Yours and other's notes that many are too demanding is well put because the game must run smoothly on modest equipment. Frankly, the Sim City series is a wonder to me, that it is so good, the graphics so clear and full of variety, etc. Like it a lot.

[dussin23 1]

Um ... I have a region with 6 million sims so i think i know how to connect the cities. What I meant was that it would be nice to see parts of the other cities when you're playing so that you have an idea of what to build, where to make the precise connections... etc.quote>

I've thought about that, too.  Great idea, if I do say so myself.  The part you can see that's outside of the current city's jurisdiction could be sort of grey looking, and of course not available to editing.  At the very least you should be able to see where the other cities' borders are, but actually seeing the edges of those cities themselves, plus the borders, would be absolutely terriffic. 

I'd like to see them make a SimCity 4.5 that uses the same graphics but improves gameplay right out of the box.  I just did a re-install of the game, and it's totally unplayable as brand-new.  Then it should incorporate some of the changes discussed in this thread to give it new capabilities.  There's so much custom content for SC4 that if the next version were backwards compatible I actually think it would help sales.

[Safrani 0]

As my thread was closed (thanks guys, I worked all day!!) and I was adviced to put it here, I will do so...

I will show you how simcity would be like if it used historical era's. (there aren't a lot of era buildings on the stex but I'll try to make it look as realistic as I can, there and there, you will have to use a little of your imagination) The first era is the colonization era:

(picture 1) The Flemish discoverd a new Island in 1498 that was created by a volcano and was located in the Atlantic Ocean. They claimed the Island as theirs, founded a new colony and named it New Flanders. The first province, called New Brabant, where they foundend their official capital New Mechelen (right behind the top of the volcano). At the east of this province, a new province for Dutch settlers. And at the south east of the capital's province, the third province for new Flemish peasants, to provide food to the new settlers.

(picture 2) The capital grew, as Flemish and Dutch entered the harbour and peasants sold them a peace of their ground to build their houses on.

(picture 3) My mistake another city Amstelvee, that is now in the 18th century, the industrial era. Anyway, I'll let it stay on this message because I think you will it.

(picture 4) There New Flanders went... And so the capital grew again, the Flemish built city walls surrounding the capital to enforce city defenses.>>

I hope you like my idea of  SC5, I'll post screens later on how New Flanders evolves.

Besides, if you have good tips on using historical buildings, give them to me

thanks>>

[habibi_Joe 5]

This is a list of things I've thought of for SC5 when (not if) it comes out.

1) Realistic commercial zone usage (to predict shopping behavior as well as commute)

2) Some kind of regional capital city.

3) Open-ended city ordinance system (ability to write your own in-game)

4) More diverse building styles

5) Realistic industrial behavior. Right now, where do the goods go? They go off the map. Why not have them go to the commercial zones?

6) More realistic inter-zone interaction. For instance, the kind of manufacturing your cities have may influence what kind of commercial zones you have in that region.

7) Region-wide "ordinances." Why not set region-wide edicts that affect all cities at the same time?

The inclusion of "vice" industries along with the ability to regulate or ban them at the local and regional levels. C'mon, one of the most important aspects of modern industrial city life is missing...

9) Ability to influence the attitudes of your sims at the regional and city levels. Wouldn't it be great if a city-wide campaign to promote mass transit actually influenced the wealthy? What if you could launch regional ad campaigns that would change the way sims in your city interacted with the infrastructure?

[Barf 0]

I guess I'll go ahead with another post.

First off, XML: instead of using cryptic .dat files and so on, most (if not all) information regarding buildings, props, ordinances, networks, business deals, rewards, menus, and more, could be modified using nothing more than Notepad by having the game load the data from XML files, or possibly some other sort of parsed text file.

Secondly, exposure to a scripting language: Civ IV has had great success with its moddability via functions exposed to Python, enabling possibilities that are nearly endless. I know, SimCity 4 has the LUA scripts, but what I'm getting at here is something that's so much more. The user interface, and many of the game mechanics, can be both altered and added to through modding Civ IV; actual mods out there range from modified/replaced advisor screens, new fort and unit functionality, an alerts system that warns you when a city is about to become unhappy or unhealthy, a completely revamped Civilopedia, and... well, you'd be suprised. Additionally, Python scripts can be edited with as little as Notepad, and don't require any kind of compiling process--you just open, edit, save, and play.

The downside to exposing functions to Python would be that performance takes a hit; C++ code runs a lot faster than plugin scripts. Of course, you don't really need a large number of the functions to be exposed, either; Civ IV takes its modding to the absolute extreme (you could theoretically turn it into a fan-made SimCity with the SDK), while a game like SimCity 5 would do well with just enough to modify the user interface, and probably various city-wide and regional aspects of the game.

As for the actual out-of-the-box gameplay, Habibi Joe got me thinking: it would be neat to be able to manage the region as one county/parish, or even state/province if it's big enough. You could set tariffs or bans on various imports, exports, and services, thus influencing what industries are attracted or repulsed from your region. Your neighboring regions' policies would also have an affect; if North Simkota bans gambling, then your cities on its border would see an influx of gambling institutions, for example. You could also view the levels of demand for certain goods and services throughout the region, so that you can plan your cities to take advantage of them.

The regional management shouldn't be too complex, though--no budget, simple interactions with neighboring regions and their cities on your border, etc. The regional aspect of the game should only serve to enhance the experience of playing with the individual cities.

Cities also need an explicit reason to exist--you shouldn't be able to start building a city in the middle of nowhere and have people magically appear to populate it. The city should either have a natural resource that a certain industry can use (oil, coal, and gas deposits, fertile soil, timberland, stone/marble quarries, natural tourist hotspots, etc.) or be in a location that has a high demand for some kind of industry or business (gambling, shipping, refinery, manufacturing, utilities, etc.); once those cities are up and running, they provide demand for housing in the surrounding area, which then allows for bedroom communities that eventually grow and develop their own industrial and commercial districts. City ordinances could also have the effect of creating or reducing demand for products and services in the neighboring areas, so demand upon which to found a new city could be intentionally created. A final option would be to establish a military base (probably one air force, one naval, and one army base per region), which of course would provide jobs, which in turn require housing...

[lewie 0]

I think SimCity will eventually fold. I have greatly enjoyed the game for years. But in the last year,almost everything available for download, requires tons of dependices. I almost had to have a seperate hard drive for them. Thus I pretty much gave up on the game. I was into it for the eye candy, but you copuldn't get anything without loads of dependices.

[patriots_1228 51]

Originally posted by: lewie I think SimCity will eventually foldquote>

 

eventually, but there will probably be one or two more simcitys before that.