An open plea to everyone critical of Maxis

[VeritaScientia 150]

As I've pointed out in another post I made on the tile-size thread, SimCity 2013 is barely out of the Alpha stage of development. The game is nowhere near finished. Give Maxis some time, I'm pretty sure at least one person from Maxis feels pretty slighted by all the pressure from the community despite all their hard work.

I took two programming courses in high school, one of the first days in class we were taught about the development and lifecycle of software. SimCity being in Alpha means its not even halfway through the development cycle. Yes, on some videos they show a fully functional city, but that just means their Graphics Team spent time producing the video using their graphics software, instead of an Alpha-build of the game, to show how the finished product will likely look.

As for the debate about whether or not they'll have larger tiles, they may or may not, but for now it's easier to error check on smaller maps than larger ones. I know this from personal experience. I was working on an airline simulator, I was building in a feature to take any two airport latitude and longitude coordinates and get the great circle distance between the two. To make sure the formula was error-free I built a standalone program for just the distance calculator, had I just built it into the game it would have taken four hours instead of just a half hour to do all the error checking.

They may keep mum about a lot of things because they haven't yet built them, and if something doesn't turn out right and it can't be put in the first release and needs a patch or to wait for an expansion pack, people won't be disappointed that Maxis didn't deliver a feature that they never mentioned would be in the game.

One other criticism I've heard is that there's nothing in-between the cities but plains. Folks, most people want to see a rocking city, and so that's what the developers are going to concentrate on for the gaming conventions. They'll be more likely to listen to our wishes if we present them as suggestions, not demands.

In my opinion, every game has an upside and a downside, and since the vast majority of the people on this site have yet to even play this game, it's pretty much prejudice to say they've screwed the game up. I've seen some saying that it's not a Sim City 4 sequel, and lambasting EA and Maxis for that, when at E3 they said it was a totally new approach. Very few people would buy a game that's just a rehash of a game that is at this point a ten year old game. Sim City 4, while a great game, and the best Sim City to date, had its limitations, why would you want to still be hampered by that engine? Let a classic be a classic and let the new game spread its own wings.

And as an open challenge, I am betting most of the people who are currently saying they aren't going to order it, will likely buy the game once the game is fully released.

I close with the quote I used the last time: Even the world's most beautiful diamond once started as an ugly lump of carbon. Give Maxis and EA a chance to finish the game and play it yourself before passing judgement.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I am a very critical person and I am very critical at EAxis because the game is very expensive and Spore and SimCity Societies left bad tastes in my mouth.

Sincerely,

--Ocram

[Jim14409 448]

I'm sorry, everyone else may buy what you are selling but I'll keep my money. EA and Maxis had a chance and they chose to ignore loyal fans and go in a new direction. That is fine if they want to do that, but they should not call the game Sim City in my opinion.

You wrote: "Folks, most people want to see a rocking city..."

Maybe most folks do or do not, that is their business and subject to change frequently I'm sure for most of us. One of the great things about Sim City 4 is that it had something for everyone who took an interest in the game.

To me bigger tiles, or smaller tiles is irrelevant at this point. SC2013 is more about social matters, both ingame and the players. I don't need EA or anyone directing how or how often I interact or don't interact. The focus should be primarily on zoning and construction. In SC4 the social aspect was there as a sideline and could be indulged in or ignored depending on the whims of the player.

Some say those like myself are afraid of change but that is said in ignorance of the facts. I remember when I got my copy of SC3 and got it installed. I marvelled at the changes and how different the game looked and as I played and discovered the inner changes I was even more pleased. The point IS they built upon what had come before and did the same with SC4. The game was recognizable as being the same game but like a baby grows, so did Sim City with each new patch, update, or release. That is until now.

Perhaps you forget the online requirement that many of us cannot/will not commit to. That alone is a killer for many.

As far as I am concerned SC2013 is not Sim City. It may be a distant cousin, I don't know and I don't care. I don't like its' looks.

  Edited August 18, 2012 by Jim14409  

[Sandis_van_Great 346]

From what ive heard, the city size limitation is actually becouse of the MP, not sure what it was but something to do with bandwith and some otther things that would be to much for MP. I personaly dont belvie thoes who say its becouse of the GB engine, technologies have gona betther and betther, thinking that they still cant do anmazing stuff is the same as people didnt belive that planes will ever fly.

The whole thing around this game is that alot of people have been waiting for it for years now(including myself, ive playd all of the sc since they comd out) and this is probobly the last chance will ever gona get new sc. And when we see how the game have been changed, and sorry not on the good way, people get dissapointed.

[VeritaScientia 150]

Occram, I can't speak on either from a player's perspective, since I never played either game. What I can say though is: since Maxis didn't develop Societies, levying blame on them for it betraying the soul of the name SimCity isn't really fair.

Jim, they're balancing their fanbase with trying to lure new players interested in Zynga-like games. Maxis said at Gamescom that if you don't want to play with others you don't have to.

I also doubt this will be the last Sim City ever made. Though depending on how the modding community works, Maxis might take their time coming up with the next one to see how the current one evolves. Some have said that roads in the demos remind them of NAM, how much you wanna bet a Maxis developer sits at his desk and fiddles with the mods the community put in SC4 to see how he can put it in the new engine?

  Edited August 18, 2012 by PTPLauthor  

[catty-cb 4,412]

...Maxis said at Gamescom that if you don't want to play with others you don't have to...

I don't want to have an online game regardless of whether I can play alone or not, my only experience of that is the CitiesXL beta and game and that wasn't a great success, and given the number of years I've been playing all the various SimCities and all the game disks I have bought over the years including SimCity Societies I think that entitles me to an opinion.

As to what that opinion is ... I think you can guess, but there seems little point complaining on the forums, EA has decided what kind of game they are making and nothing I or anyone else can say will change their minds, and yes I pre-ordered the game and no I have no intention of supporting EA regardless in the hopes it will eventually end up being the kind of game I want, so when I went back to cancel the pre-order (In NZ its on disks) I told them why I didn't want to purchase.

-catty

[chimeran 208]

Very few people would buy a game that's just a rehash of a game that is at this point a ten year old game. Sim City 4, while a great game, and the best Sim City to date, had its limitations, why would you want to still be hampered by that engine? Let a classic be a classic and let the new game spread its own wings.

like my grandpappy used to say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" would i buy a rehash ? yes, if the graphics and simulation engine are improved. some things should not be tampered with. i've been playing simcity since it's beginning in '89 and with each new version the graphics and simulation got better but the gameplay and style remained the same which made me a loyal fan. yes, SC4 is over 10 years old but is alive and well and you know why ? those who grew up on it are familiar w/it and because of those who enjoy the game who take the time to create awesome buildings and vehicles and then share w/the global community. this keeps SC4 alive despite it's processing limitations.

the fact of the matter remains is that the entire simcity franchise was built around ONE central premise : an open sandbox. once you start changing this you will anger a lot of fans. to give an example which will probably blow the mods gaskets, would you watch a retelling of jesus christ if he were gay or something that flies in the opposite direction of what you were led to believe ? of course not b/c it's not the same. if anyone knows about angering the fans it's george lucas. it took 16 years before he decided to make a new star wars movie and when it came out the fans were furious b/c he wanted to take it in a "new" direction but something that would appeal to the fans who grew up on the originals. can you say jar jar binks ? (epic fail) jar jar was in the second installment but had about 2 lines tops. personally i have never watched the entire phantom menace b/c it gets on my nerves.

[Keigen Shu 17]

I blame them for over-publicising GlassBox. They tailored the engine to work for most of Maxis' large scale simulation games, and just to show us it's capabilities, they made a SimCity-like demo. I knew that they haven't really started working on SimCity when they revelaed the new game simply because of the lack of details on the design. I guess the problem came when they just went up front to make developer interviews on SC2013 and started putting up promises when the game hasn't even been researched and designed properly.

Maxis had never removed key features from the base game in their expansions. They only improved on them to make the game better. A lot of their guarenteed features could have been made as a improvement or as an optional addition to the gameplay in SimCity 4, but they decided to force a major design change and reboot the franchise. It's clear that they did this in order to make the game much more simpler for all players. I suspect that they couldn't afford to research other potential designs that would've appealed to fans, and decided to choose another design new to them that has been proven to work, like CityVille and SimCity Social (though one might note that SimCity Social is too simple hence any new player would pick it up and think that is SimCity).

[cirugo 1,889]

absolutely not. there have been NUMEROUS complaints raised about what we're seeing...not the least of which is the online-only aspect. The only response has been condescending marketing sloganeering. When they start taking the criticism seriously and acknowledging all the problems that forcing single-player games online has caused in other franchises as well as the other complaints about what they're cutting to make that happen then I will cut them some slack.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

Thank you for your response PTPauthor. However, I am still not convinced that SC5 would end up better than SC4 as of yet.

absolutely not. there have been NUMEROUS complaints raised about what we're seeing...not the least of which is the online-only aspect. The only response has been condescending marketing sloganeering. When they start taking the criticism seriously and acknowledging all the problems that forcing single-player games online has caused in other franchises as well as the other complaints about what they're cutting to make that happen then I will cut them some slack.

I agree with cirugo that theren has been too many confirmed details that have been implemented, such as the lack of a 100% offline single player mode, the lack of large-scale terraforming, sprawling metropolises being impossible to build (due to the forced empty spaces between cities) and more:

Only when Maxis and EA acknowledge, address, and more importantly, fix or improve the significant flaws in the games will I begin to have a more positive view of the game.

[Shark7 118]

To clarify, it is not Maxis I am critical of. It is EA and their insistence on forcing Origin and Online required to play. If the game were not requiring that I use Origin and be online all the time, I'd probably be buying the game. And as good as the game may be, Origin is so bad that it completely eclipses everything good about the game.

[kwetzel345 101]

I also have several things I feel this simcity misses. Now, I am no veteran of the series, so I might not be able to grip on what a true simcity is, but I can tell this one heads in one direction to much. That being social game play. To have it slightly there is fine, but it is something that must be leveled with the infrastructure and building aspect as well. It fails to do that, it fails to balance it well. What has also been cut out to support this also makes it even more relevant that the social side is way off from doing a well balancing act. If they happen to fix it, that is great, but I must also repeat that I think it it is too far from going back. Maxis has made up there mind, and that is where it will not change., but not all is lost.

We still have simcity 4, a great community, a vocal one too, and one I am proud to say thank you for all you have done. This is when your work really shines guys, keep it up!

[Xenocity 343]

First off, I like the new look of the new Simcity and the new engine.

I like many other fans have complained for years about the lack of detail in Simcity.

We want to see our cities full of life like a real city.

(Simcity has always had Cartoonish graphics, even with Simcity 4)

I also like the fact you can customize your city with special buildings that changes how your city develops.

This was my favorite part about Simcity Creator on Wii, you could place a special building in your city and it would change the architect of your city.

So if you wanted to build a cake city you could (yes it had a cake building that turned your city to cake buidlings).

I can't wait to make a city unique to me.

I do hate the current need to use Origin and always on online.

Though have any of use used Steam recently?

They changed the terms of usage that is as bad as Origin.

If you click "Do not accept" Valve shuts down your account and you lose your games.

Origin is no longer the great evil gamers make it out to be (I hear Uplay from Ubisoft is worse).

One last note do you all remember or know why Maxis sold themselves to EA?

By 1997 Maxis was broke and heavily indebt, due to the commercial failures of their other games and the expensive of developing Simcity 3000.

Maxis had to either sell out or shut down shop.

So the only company willing to buy Maxis was EA.

The first two Simcities made good profit for Maxis, but not enough to cover all the expenses of the company.

Simcity 3000 made a tidy profit but not to cover the development of all their other games.

The point is, Maxis is lucky to breakeven with the sales they get post Simcity 3000

This is the problem EA has been trying to fix with Maxis.

I have been a Maxis Fan since 1991.

[Jim14409 448]

Jim, they're balancing their fanbase with trying to lure new players interested in Zynga-like games.

They "balance their fanbase" at the expense of a wildly successful game with a dedicated following. I find it hard to believe any company with a view to certain long term income would simply offend and toss overboard such a money bank. However some of us know CEO's etc are not what they used to be and most are very shortsighted. Frankly I don't think those responsible are too bright, but hey what do I know...

...Maxis said at Gamescom that if you don't want to play with others you don't have to...

I don't want to have an online game regardless of whether I can play alone or not, my only experience of that is the CitiesXL beta and game and that wasn't a great success, and given the number of years I've been playing all the various SimCities and all the game disks I have bought over the years including SimCity Societies I think that entitles me to an opinion.

As to what that opinion is ... I think you can guess, but there seems little point complaining on the forums, EA has decided what kind of game they are making and nothing I or anyone else can say will change their minds, and yes I pre-ordered the game and no I have no intention of supporting EA regardless in the hopes it will eventually end up being the kind of game I want, so when I went back to cancel the pre-order (In NZ its on disks) I told them why I didn't want to purchase.

-catty

Of course you have a say and as a player it is a valid say.

As for our complaints doing any good or not I would not be so quick to write them off. As we know once it is on the internet it seems to be written in stone. We never know who is researching what people want, why games failed, or even why companies failed. If we are quiet we only get more of the same indefinitely. Eventually someone will come along who will "get it" and give those with money in hand what they want.

Gripe on!

[Xenocity 343]

Jim, they're balancing their fanbase with trying to lure new players interested in Zynga-like games.

They "balance their fanbase" at the expense of a wildly successful game with a dedicated following. I find it hard to believe any company with a view to certain long term income would simply offend and toss overboard such a money bank. However some of us know CEO's etc are not what they used to be and most are very shortsighted. Frankly I don't think those responsible are too bright, but hey what do I know...

The problem is the dedicated following is not as big as you think, thus not being big enough for Maxis to break even on.

Game development is quite expensive these days and requiring even more sales and/or higher prices.

[Jim14409 448]

Very few people would buy a game that's just a rehash of a game that is at this point a ten year old game. Sim City 4, while a great game, and the best Sim City to date, had its limitations, why would you want to still be hampered by that engine? Let a classic be a classic and let the new game spread its own wings.

like my grandpappy used to say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" would i buy a rehash ? yes, if the graphics and simulation engine are improved. some things should not be tampered with. i've been playing simcity since it's beginning in '89 and with each new version the graphics and simulation got better but the gameplay and style remained the same which made me a loyal fan. yes, SC4 is over 10 years old but is alive and well and you know why ? those who grew up on it are familiar w/it and because of those who enjoy the game who take the time to create awesome buildings and vehicles and then share w/the global community. this keeps SC4 alive despite it's processing limitations.

the fact of the matter remains is that the entire simcity franchise was built around ONE central premise : an open sandbox. once you start changing this you will anger a lot of fans. <snip>

I could not have said it any better!

[Helevitia 38]

Deleted by me

  Edited August 19, 2012 by Helevitia  
Removed unnecessary comments.

[Jim14409 448]

The problem is the dedicated following is not as big as you think, thus not being big enough for Maxis to break even on.

Game development is quite expensive these days and requiring even more sales and/or higher prices.

I am aware of the fact that their fanbase is not among the largest out there. However the name and longevity of the game will bring in more buyers/fans with each issue. With the original SimCity series they had a foundation upon which to build that should be envied and protected.

Sim City is not their only game. It seems to me a wise man has more than one egg in his nest at a time and realizes it will not hatch over night.

Most of us who have played Sim City for years would be willing to repurchase the game every year if they added the kind of content/improvements seen in a years time at fan sites.

In my opinion they should be building on what they have and creating new. SC2013 is NEW stuff.

[aereus 106]

My complaints against Maxis/EA come from the fact we're quite late in the development cycle, so we're unlikely to see any major changes before the release of the game. And from the various comments by Maxis reps -- they aren't interested in taking the game in the direction the majority of their older fanbase would like to see. Or even give the CHOICE. You get one size, one way. If you don't like it, too bad.

If they were truly interested in appeasing old and new fans -- they would offer choices of map size, "competitive" mode vs. free-mode with terraforming, etc.

The game is way past halfway in the dev cycle. You don't have most art assets finished, all the scripting complete, all the sim world interactivity finished, etc. and be under halfway done with the game. What we've seen now will pretty much what we get in February. Games like this are in development for years. Not 10 months. Many of us have been around for the dev cycle of many games before this -- we've heard all the marketing speak, question-dodging, etc. before. There is no magic "release edition" we just aren't seeing.

With the utmost respect, I'm going to say that the OP lacks the experience to talk about development cycles. High school classes aren't a good comparison to upper level university compsci courses or professional development. Unit testing with validated data is one of the basic tenets of development. And the upper execs will weigh in on how a game is developed despite how the devs themselves may want it.

In closing: I haven't seen a response from Maxis that they are interested in taking suggestions seriously. It all sounds like marketing speak I've heard tons of times before. They've stated there would only be one map size. If they just hadn't implemented others they would have stated as such. The Facebook crowd is a bigger potential revenue source, so they are catering the game to them. We just don't have the same clout as Farmville players that want to spam their non-accomplishments on Sim World to all their friends social networks.

[Jim14409 448]

And as an open challenge, I am betting most of the people who are currently saying they aren't going to order it, will likely buy the game once the game is fully released.

Not this people. I have bought and played all the Anno games. Always loved them almost as much as the SC games, but I have not bought 2070 for several reasons and won't buy it unless it shows up on CD/DVD at Wal-Mart for ten bucks, does not require online connection etc which I doubt since it is DL only instead of CD/DVD. I have found life continues whether or not I have some game and so EA nor anyone else can hold me hostage.

[Xenocity 343]

In closing: I haven't seen a response from Maxis that they are interested in taking suggestions seriously. It all sounds like marketing speak I've heard tons of times before. They've stated there would only be one map size. If they just hadn't implemented others they would have stated as such. The Facebook crowd is a bigger potential revenue source, so they are catering the game to them. We just don't have the same clout as Farmville players that want to spam their non-accomplishments on Sim World to all their friends social networks.

This is not true at all.

You do realize most gamers be it Facebook Crowd, Halo Crowd, CoD Crowd, Nintendo crowd, etc... will quite playing a game after year or so regardless if it a sandbox game or not.

You also should know most gamers in general will buy games for achievements they can show them off on their proflies on Xbox Live, PSN, Steam etc...

Achievements are now a mainstay and a selling point.

Lastly one of the biggest criticisms of Simcity 4 was the lack of online play with other players and the lack of sharing regions with people.

The reviewers complained Simcity 4 was targeted at the direhard fans instead of normal fans.

Facebook fans already have a version of Simcity called Simcity Social.

Also apparently everyone on here forgot about this game released in 1996:

SimCity 2000 Network Edition featured slightly different gameplay in network mode, where mayors may start with more money, but must buy land before building upon it. The Gold edition had the ability to share in-game resources and to compete or cooperate with other cities. If the user is on an appropriate network (TCP or IPX), then SimCity 2000 Gold Edition works in a similar way to SimCity Societies, giving the ability to Not use Zones while building cities.

This version also features a revamped user interface. Instead of a static toolbar, items are accessed via cascading menus from the right of the screen, resulting in more screen real-estate for SimCity itself, without sacrificing functionality.

So did you guys hate this game at release as well?

[VeritaScientia 150]

At release? there's some ready to crucity the game before it goes Beta....

[aereus 106]

You're conflating the existence of online play and resource sharing with the CHOICE of those options. I'm not against online play or sharing resources. I'm against a one-size-fits-all pre-made pre-groomed gaming experience.

I want to be wrong. I want to be able to come back here in March and say how glad I am I was overreacting. I just don't see the majority of my complaints with Maxis and the game being disproven yet, however. Given the simple scripting language shown in the GDC 2012 presentation, I would love to see that available for modding, etc. But given the forced global market participation, I'm not seeing an easy way they can let people tinker with mechanics without possibly having abuse or throwing off of the commodities market, etc.

I'm signed up for the beta, so if given the chance, I will definitely preview the game and provide feedback. It's just that by the time you're in beta, the chances of them changing any core game mechanic are slim to none. Greenways between cities aren't likely to change, for example.

[Xenocity 343]

At release? there's some ready to crucity the game before it goes Beta....

I was referring to Simcity 2000 Network Edition with my question.

I am beginning to think Simcity fans are becoming as bad as Legend of Zelda fans.

What do Zelda fans do?

If the new game is similar in structure and gameplay to Ocarina of Time on N64, they crucify Nintendo and the game for not being different enough.

If new game deviates from Ocarina of Time structure and gameplay, they crucify Nintendo and the new game for not sticking to the Ocarina of Time template.

It has gone like for every Zelda game following Ocarina of Time and the fans are angry that Nintendo has sold them out (it has been nearly 15 years now).

[Essex 322]

"I close with the quote I used the last time: Even the world's most beautiful diamond once started as an ugly lump of carbon. Give Maxis and EA a chance to finish the game and play it yourself before passing judgement."

What are you on about? They already had the diamond, it was called "Simcity 4", it just needed polishing. Why make a diamond a lump of carbon when you only need to polish it? Maybe because it's easier to sell milkshake? Sigh.

[pyanodon 218]

My concern isnt about Maxis..is about EA. SC13 will be like they´re showing for superior orders. EA love to destroy fanchises, look what they did recently with command&conquer, now it´s F2P and look, no single player mode. Yeah a rts with no single player/skirmish mode. That example show what EA will do with games in the next years, eliminate the single player and make it all online earning money from microtransactions. Wait for SC14 to be an multiplayer only where you wil need to pay $0.99 for a solar power plant.

  Edited August 19, 2012 by pyanodon  

[VeritaScientia 150]

Not all EA franchises are killed, Madden NFL still has loyal fans, my friend turned me on to Battlefield and now I tend to growl when he doesn't text me by 1030 to play (I can't stand playing FPSs with people I don't know, I NEED someone else to strategize with for those)

EA did NOT have to buy Maxis, but saw the potential in the people there. Had Maxis shut down, this site would have more than a few threads lambasting EA for sitting by and watching Maxis die (not to mention the site would be a LOT smaller). Sim City 4 was developed under EA, and most will agree Sim City 4 catapulted SimCity games into a whole new realm. EA realized their mistake with Societies and revived Maxis. Maxis has yet to disappoint its fans in developing a SimCity game, yes I know the logical retort is "There's always a first time," and I'll agree that yes, there is always a first time, but I highly doubt this game is going to be that first time. Even if Maxis does end up screwing up, as long as they deliver on the promised modding support, the Sim City modding community can set to work.

Pyanodon, Maxis may listen to the people who want a standalone region and work on that, but I still think the global economy will be a neat feature once people get used to it. When I first played SC4, there were so many features that I was overwhelmed and totally confused, I think it ended up taking me five months before I got a city above 50,000 pop.

What are you on about? They already had the diamond, it was called "Simcity 4", it just needed polishing. Why make a diamond a lump of carbon when you only need to polish it? Maybe because it's easier to sell milkshake? Sigh.

Okay, so you're suggesting they rip apart Sim City 4 and rebuild it with a new engine and graphics? It'd have as much chance at success as Christopher Reeve getting a perfect 10 in a diving competition......BUT what they can do, and from what I've seen, have glimmers of doing, is taking the best aspects of Sim City 4 and put them in the new game alongside new features. And your last part about milkshakes.........um.....no......they're still developing a city simulator, you're blowing it out of proportion. They're taking a new lump of carbon and turning it into a diamond and polishing it the same way they polished the diamond that became SC4.

As for the debate over DRM: I don't mind DRM, why? Because I know that if people steal too many games, then the game developers will say "fine, screw you, we'll lay off our people and you won't get ANY new games." They did the hard work for the game, they deserve to get paid. While I don't agree with the large lawsuits against end users of torrent sites, I do support something like this: if a teenager torrents a game worth $50, the developer and publisher should EACH be entitled to sue the kid for $150, then the kid might think twice like this: "Okay, last time I torrented, I ended up paying 3x what it costs, I'll save the extra money and go buy it legally."

[Helevitia 38]

Deleted by me

  Edited August 19, 2012 by Helevitia  
Removed unnecessary comments.

[Helevitia 38]

Well, I guess saying "I want to puke" and telling someone to "stop cheerleading for EA" is considered insulting another person and I've been censored by the simtropolis police. So, I will publicly say that I'm sorry if I offended anyone even if I don't agree with the accusations. I can't, in good conscience continue to post here for being censored for the above, so have fun everyone, I'm out...

[Daytripper 41]

it's pretty much prejudice to say they've screwed the game up.

My criticism is based not on mere prejudice but on confirmed facts.

1. the requirement to install and connect online to Origin to play: this is all the reason I need to boycott this game but for the record, I also feel they screwed up the game because

2. we will not be allowed to save, change or destroy then reload the saved city

3. Maxies/EA are charging for Day 1 DLC: a practice I despise. The Digital Deluxe edition costs US$20 more than the Limited edition and the only difference is that the former includes 3 city sets which the latter does not. Prepare yourselves to be charged for mod packs, map packs, the ability to play on larger maps etc. etc.

When Bioware/EA presented the "resolution" to the Mass Effect series, its players raised an enormous outcry and they had invested only 5 years in the franchise. I've invested MUCH more time in Simcity so I feel that I have the right to voice my opinion about SC2013.