I. Lostalim's new B.A.T. - Project 1

[I. Lostalim 588]

From encouragement by some of the members of the site, I have decided to try a B.A.T discussion.

Stage #3

• Fixed some columns at base (looked to clunky).
  
• Added utility entrances at top section, secondary section, and at the base in the back.
  
• Added garages, boxes, barrels, and dumpsters.
  
• Added air conditioning units with vents and other roof junk.
  
• Will add nightlighting when building is finished.
  

I might add foliage or some sort of courtyard on the secondary section (may not fit well).

This building has no particular style or scheme… Sometimes I get carried away and become the architect.

Any suggestions will be very helpful!

  Edited April 12, 2012 by I. Lostalim  

[Jasoncw 11,839]

The BAT4Max thread stickied to this forum explains how to use max to render instead of gmax.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Hey, welcome to the forums! It's great to see you here - and with a new project, too.

From a technical point of view, you should totally use max if you can! And generally, you can - as Jason pointed out. The BAT4Max script enables you to export right from 3dsmax into SimCity's .sc4model format. This way, you will not only benefit from superior (and faster) renders, but also from superior modeling tools and the use of Arch & Design materials with a whole lot of settings instead of flat textures that can only simulate what max actually calculates. Last but not least, max isn't as buggy as gmax.

As for the building, I guess that you are modeling this one from scratch and not re-creating an existing building?

The building looks quite good generally (I'm a sucker for midrise and highrise buildings with some kind of podium or annex), but I think some tweaks would make it more convincing. I can imagine that the overall proportions would look more pleasing if the lower part wasn't exactly half the height of the taller part. Taking away a few storeys may help.

Another thing that always makes these types of buildings look much better is a more accentuated ground floor. It's rather common for the first 2 or 3 floors to be taller and slightly different from the rest of the building. Often you will see a lobby that's taller than all regular floors, and this is often recessed a bit and situated behind arcades. The way the building looks now, it appears to be cut off with a knife, but it doesn't have a defined lower end.

As I mentioned on the STEX already, the parapet may look more convincing if it was thinner. Furthermore, parapets are often covered with flashing, i.e. rain protection in the shape of metal sheets or tar paper, so the top would probably look different from the sides.

Well, enough text for the time being - meanwhile, I hope you'll manage to make the move from gmax to max.

[while 1]

Hey, welcome to the forums! It's great to see you here - and with a new project, too.

From a technical point of view, you should totally use max if you can! And generally, you can - as Jason pointed out. The BAT4Max script enables you to export right from 3dsmax into SimCity's .sc4model format. This way, you will not only benefit from superior (and faster) renders, but also from superior modeling tools and the use of Arch & Design materials with a whole lot of settings instead of flat textures that can only simulate what max actually calculates. Last but not least, max isn't as buggy as gmax.

As for the building, I guess that you are modeling this one from scratch and not re-creating an existing building?

The building looks quite good generally (I'm a sucker for midrise and highrise buildings with some kind of podium or annex), but I think some tweaks would make it more convincing. I can imagine that the overall proportions would look more pleasing if the lower part wasn't exactly half the height of the taller part. Taking away a few storeys may help.

Another thing that always makes these types of buildings look much better is a more accentuated ground floor. It's rather common for the first 2 or 3 floors to be taller and slightly different from the rest of the building. Often you will see a lobby that's taller than all regular floors, and this is often recessed a bit and situated behind arcades. The way the building looks now, it appears to be cut off with a knife, but it doesn't have a defined lower end.

As I mentioned on the STEX already, the parapet may look more convincing if it was thinner. Furthermore, parapets are often covered with flashing, i.e. rain protection in the shape of metal sheets or tar paper, so the top would probably look different from the sides.

Well, enough text for the time being - meanwhile, I hope you'll manage to make the move from gmax to max.

good luck to you.

[I. Lostalim 588]

2.

• Added lower lobby.
  
• Fixed the ledge on top of the roof.
  
• Removed floors on secondary section.
  
• Will add nightlighting once building is complete
  

  Edited April 11, 2012 by I. Lostalim  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Looks good! The new proportions definitely look better to me, although my opinion may not be the most educated around here (there are many architecture students here, and I'm not one of them ).

The ground floor is much more defined now, too, but are the spaces between the columns placeholders or final? I'm wondering because that would make the building appear awfully closed and denying from street level. Solid walls and/or loading bays may be an option for the back, though.

The way these two columns end above the entrace causes a little conflict IMO. When you look at the building, the columns seem to be there for structural purposes. Then again, if two of them simply end just like that, it makes you think that they are just ornaments, and this is a bit confusing.

Maybe some horizontal element (such as a narrow ledge) would be helpful to separate the two lobby floors from the main tower above them, but that's just a spontaneous idea.

Generally, it's always useful to look at real-life buildings of similar size and style to get a feeling of what's typical of them and what you could copy for your BAT. This way, even if it's not a recreation of any one particular building, it will recreate many real (and hence, realistic) aspects of actual buildings and end up looking more convincing.

[I. Lostalim 588]

STAGE 3!!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Just a quick remark: Would you mind changing the way you update to a more conventional style, i.e. new post with new pictures? This approach has the advantage that anyone who pops into this thread will see your latest progress immediately without scrolling back and forth, and it will be possible to compare the different progress stages and comment things like "I like the new window texture in update 3, but IMO the roof junk you had in update 2 looked better" or anything in that direction.

[I. Lostalim 588]

Just a quick remark: Would you mind changing the way you update to a more conventional style, i.e. new post with new pictures? This approach has the advantage that anyone who pops into this thread will see your latest progress immediately without scrolling back and forth, and it will be possible to compare the different progress stages and comment things like "I like the new window texture in update 3, but IMO the roof junk you had in update 2 looked better" or anything in that direction.

Will do!!

[I. Lostalim 588]

I'm trying to add the new images, but they’re not showing up. It keeps giving me the location of the photo and not posting it here on the topic. By the time I get the photo on here, it shows a little red "X"

WHAT DO I DO!?!?

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Did you try to attach the pictures right here on Simtrop? It may be that you're over the attachment file size limit. You should upload to picture hosters like photobucket, imageshack etc. - they all work pretty much the same. You upload a picture and get some links. Simply copy the direct link to the image from that page, click the "Image" button in the "Reply to this topic" screen and paste the image link there. This will make the image show up in your post, and you won't have to worry about attachment restrictions because the images are hosted off site.

[I. Lostalim 588]

STAGE #4

• Added pipes on secondary section and fix some of the vents.
  
• Added Satellites.
  
• Started nightlights.
  

Started the basic nightlights for the front of the building. I wonder if I should use the classic beige nightlights

or...

Do these special ones I created myself, which almost resemble real lights.

I guess the next thing to do is give some character to the building, maybe by adding some decorative features. Unless it doesn't need any and it looks fine the way it is.

Want do some of you think?

  Edited April 13, 2012 by I. Lostalim  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Whoa, much to comment... I think the custom night lights you did are better than the standard ones in terms of texture, although in some windows they appear to be "cut off" somehow - for example, take the rightmost column, the highest illuminated window. How did you make these lights?

Conceptually, you should consider that if this is a commercial building, there are likely to be several larger office rooms on each floor, which means that it's highly unlikely for an individual window pane to be lit whereas the neighbouring ones are dark (this would mean that the room behind is as wide as the window, nothing more). Typically you will find light strips spanning several windows in an office building (a hotel or apartment building may be a different story!).

As a whole, I'd say modeling and texturing in themselves are looking good, but the concept of the building isn't entirely convincing yet. That's why I recommended looking at some real-life stuff get some inspiration and imitate what you see.

Some examples of conceptual shortcomings are the empty walls at ground level. This is precious space that would normally be occupied by a ritzy, glass-clad lobby to make the building look representative or by store fronts to make the building add to street life instead of sitting there like a lifeless behemoth that you can only walk past.

Another example would be the unequal spacing and treatment of the columns: Along the front wall, every second one ends at ground level except for the right corner. Along the side and back walls, it's a different story.

The rooftops also look suspiciously like "Hm, what to do with all that empty space? Guess I'll make up some random roof junk to make it look busy". Once again, real-life buildings can be an inspiration here. Generally, vents like those 4 huge propellers you added to the lower roof would have some large duct work and machinery below them, so they don't look logical together with the topmost row of windows.

The same applies to the penthouse on top of the tower: Somewhere you will need a place to house all the machinery required for the elevators inside the building (and a building of this height would be required by law to have elevators). This machinery is often housed in a penthouse-like structure on top of the roof, or the roof is flat, but the first floor below the roof is a tech floor. Once again, the rooftops of real-life buildings are a good source of inspiration for this purpose.

Making buildings up from your imagination is really tough because in addition to the pure modeling and texturing, you also need to mimick all the things that real buildings have because of some reason you do not see at first hand, but that still exists. If you see it this way, recreations of existing buildings are easier because a real architect has done the concept work for you, and you can concentrate on modeling and texturing.

Phew, this sounds like a lot of criticism, but in fact you are doing a really good job so far, especially considering you are using gmax with all its limitations and you haven't got that much experience yet. So if you think that all this is a bit too much for you right now, don't get discouraged and keep it up! Step by step is the way to go, and you're really doing fine.

[I. Lostalim 588]

The same applies to the penthouse on top of the tower: Somewhere you will need a place to house all the machinery required for the elevators inside the building (and a building of this height would be required by law to have elevators). This machinery is often housed in a penthouse-like structure on top of the roof, or the roof is flat, but the first floor below the roof is a tech floor. Once again, the rooftops of real-life buildings are a good source of inspiration for this purpose.

I guess my buildings are based on where I live... Most of the buildings don’t get above 5 stories high, and where I live is very new and very clean. That’s why my buildings may not have the wear & tear look. The roof junk where I live is just air conditioning vents and maybe some pipes, but we don’t have huge fans or giant antennas. I have very little knowledge of the construction of real skyscraper rooftops... I like being the architect more than an engineer.

Thank you for your suggestions!

I’ll see what I can do!

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Looks like an interesting little box, a good size too! I tried something that small, and well...bigger things called to me.

T Wrecks is pointing you in the right direction meticulously. You're getting some great advise I assure you.

[I. Lostalim 588]

• Added utility ladder.
  
• Removed penthouse and changed it into an equipment storage.
  
• Removed larger vents on secondary section.
  
• Made the columns uniform.
  

Still working on nightlights, the custom texture I’m using keeps getting cut off. I might have to use the maxis nightlights.

Unless someone might know what the problem is? At least in GMAX, nightlights are projected sideways and not in the isometric angle of the window.

Suggestions will help very much!