Rendering Problem: Gaps Between Cities

[bluntwoods 0]

So it seems for any map I download, when I render it, on and only on the large cities, I get this freaky gap (see attached photo) at the bottom edge for each one in region mode. The problem does not happen for Medium and small cities.

The prepackaged maps of NY and Berlin (which have at least one large city) look fine, so I'm suspecting its a problem with the rendering tool.

I tried software instead of hardware rendering to no avail.

It seems playable in that when I go into one of the cities and hit reconcile edges, it says all is fine, it just looks hideous in Region mode. Also, I'm using SimCity 4, Deluxe Edition.

Any thoughts, knowledge on how to solve this?

[MallowTheCloud 41]

I have in fact seen this problem before, and the solution that seems to work is to go in and play your city, then save... and when you exit back to the region it should look normal.

[tungston 19]

Date: 9/11/2005 11:41:02 PM Author:bluntwoods So it seems for any map I download, when I render it, on and only on the large cities, I get this freaky gap (see attached photo) at the bottom edge for each one in region mode.  The problem does not happen for Medium and small cities. The prepackaged maps of NY and Berlin (which have at least one large city) look fine, so I'm suspecting its a problem with the rendering tool. I tried software instead of hardware rendering to no avail. It seems playable in that when I go into one of the cities and hit reconcile edges, it says all is fine, it just looks hideous in Region mode.  Also, I'm using SimCity 4, Deluxe Edition. Any thoughts, knowledge on how to solve this?

 

When I have had this problem, as Mallowthecloud knows, it was because the config.bmp file was not right.  I have found SC4 to prefer the config file to be a bit map.  I have seen some members that have tried using jpg's and that just does not work, because the compression smears the pixels.  Make sure the 4x4 for the large city is all one shade of blue.

 

I have a post on page 4 of MallowTheCloud's Mapp Squad Maps thread showing the problem I had.

 

If you want to see something funny, load a different region, change the config file of your original region to one of a differnet configuation, without exiting the game, and then load your region again.  Then you will see what the config file can do if it is not right. [you will then need to exit the game and replace the correct config file]

 

I am a novice, but I have been doing a lot of experimenting, and with the help of Mallow have successfully made some nice regions.

[bluntwoods 0]

Okay, so to I tried saving the city even changing and reconciling the edges, to no avail.

The config file is already a .bmp. It was all 1 shade of blue, I went in and made sure it was pure blue and rerendered with the same result. I also had the same result rerendering with the NY config.bmp file provided with the game.

What I noticed, is that gap is actually terrain that's not being shown in region mode (but is shown in city mode). That is, its not that its seperating the cities. It is simply not showing the very bottom strip of every large city. There isn't some upgrade to download for SC4 is there? The next thing on the list is to try a reinstall. BTW, my plugin directory is empty.

[tungston 19]

Date: 9/12/2005 2:55:42 AM Author: bluntwoods Okay, so to I tried saving the city even changing and reconciling the edges, to no avail. The config file is already a .bmp.  It was all 1 shade of blue, I went in and made sure it was pure blue and rerendered with the same result.  I also had the same result rerendering with the NY config.bmp file provided with the game. What I noticed, is that 'gap' is actually terrain that's not being shown in region mode (but is shown in city mode).  That is, its not that its seperating the cities. It is simply not showing the very bottom strip of every large city.  There isn't some upgrade to download for SC4 is there?  The next thing on the list is to try a reinstall.  BTW, my plugin directory is empty.

 

Something you haven't mentioned is the size [pixel] of the bit map, and are you using a grayscale to render?  And if so what size is it?

 

EDIT:  I just took a closer look at the image of your region.  Rather than missing strips of the city, it looks like there is water there.   Is there a possibility there are dark lines in your grayscale? 

 

EDIT 2:  There has been a patch to SC4 RH/Deluxe since the release, posted at simcity.ea.com.

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

I agree with Tungston. Your image shows 16 large cities. This means the Config.bmp should be exactly 16 pixels by 16 pixels and the region view should be 4city x 4city. I'll bet your all blue Config.bmp is 20pixel x 20pixel. That would cause that problem for sure.

[ehatch2279 0]

I have this problem also, and it is a known issue with SC4 (perhaps Deluxe edition only?).  It is caused by saving a large city while using 1600x1200 resolution, and so will happen when either rendering a region or saving your city.  Unfortunately there is no known fix for this (at least that I know of), so reinstalling the game/using the patch isn't a cure.  The config.bmp pixel size and color is not the problem either.  The only way to undo it is to switch to a lower resolution and then render/re-save your cities.  Yeah, it sucks.   I've decided to just live with it, because I don't like using a lower resolution.  However, if anyone knows of a verified fix for this, I'd love to hear it!

[tungston 19]

Date: 9/12/2005 7:52:57 AM Author: frndofyaweh I agree with Tungston. Your image shows 16 large cities. This means the Config.bmp should be exactly 16 pixels by 16 pixels and the region view should be 4city x 4city. I'll bet your all blue Config.bmp is 20pixel x 20pixel. That would cause that problem for sure.

That is not quite correct.  If you use a 20x20 you would get a 5x5 large cities, but when you tried to render you would get an error msg saying your grayscale was the wrong size.  As has been noted before several times, the grayscale needs to be 64:1 plus 1. 

 

Since the region did render, it would not be a ratio issue.  If you would happen to use a 17x17 all blue, you still get 4x4 large cities.  17x15 all blue yields a 4x3 large cities.  I don't know what would happen if you tried to render said configs, I've never tried it.

[tungston 19]

ehatch is right.

I tried the 1600x1200 resolution and it is most definitely the issue.

[vester_DK 477]

to make a new config.bmp use landscape designer. You find it on the STEX.

The problem may lay in the resolution. Try render in a lower resultion.
Searh, there have been thread like this before.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 9/12/2005 8:53:05 AM
Author: ehatch2279

I have this problem also, and it is a known issue with SC4 (perhaps Deluxe edition only?). It is caused by saving a large city while using 1600x1200 resolution, and so will happen when either rendering a region or saving your city. Unfortunately there is no known fix for this (at least that I know of), so reinstalling the game/using the patch isn't a cure. The config.bmp pixel size and color is not the problem either. The only way to undo it is to switch to a lower resolution and then render/re-save your cities. Yeah, it sucks. I've decided to just live with it, because I don't like using a lower resolution. However, if anyone knows of a verified fix for this, I'd love to hear it!

quote>

Ah, you're right. I forgot about that.

It is a video card/driver issue. As ehatch says, the only known solution is to lower the resolution... which is a pain in and of itself.

However, I'm curious. What would happen if you tried to install an updated video card driver? Would that fix it?

[tungston 19]

I have two computers running SC4 Deluxe.  One with an ATI Radeon X850 Premium 256MB, the other an ATI Radeon X800XL 256MB, both with the latest driver, and I get the symptoms when I render at 1600x1200.

But I rendered the map at 1024x768 resolution, and then switched to 1600x1200 and the symptom was gone.  The region displayed normally.

 

A bit of a hassel but you only have to do it once per region.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 9/12/2005 8:26:18 PM
Author: tungston
I have two computers running SC4 Deluxe. One with an ATI Radeon X850 Premium 256MB, the other an ATI Radeon X800XL 256MB, both with the latest driver, and I get the symptoms when I render at 1600x1200.

But I rendered the map at 1024x768 resolution, and then switched to 1600x1200 and the symptom was gone. The region displayed normally.

A bit of a hassel but you only have to do it once per region.

quote>

Hmm... that is pretty odd.

I'm using an nVidia GeForce (don't remember which version) at 1600x1200 and have no problem... maybe it just doesn't like ATI Radeon cards?

[bluntwoods 0]

ehatch2279 you're absolutely right, that was the problem to the tee. Saving and rendering big cities has the same effect in 1600x1200 vs lower dispay settings. Odd that it didn't matter if software or hardware rendering was selected. That is a pain and will warrant an email to EA if my drivers are up-to-date. My drivers were up-to-date as of this spring, and my card is a GeForce 2 GTS. Its an Elsa Gladiac 32MB, so there goes the ATI theory. Figures, its an EA product something has to fail.

Thanks all for replying so fast.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 9/13/2005 12:09:33 AM
Author: bluntwoods
ehatch2279 you're absolutely right, that was the problem to the tee. Saving and rendering big cities has the same effect in 1600x1200 vs lower dispay settings. Odd that it didn't matter if software or hardware rendering was selected. That is a pain and will warrant an email to EA if my drivers are up-to-date. My drivers were up-to-date as of this spring, and my card is a GeForce 2 GTS. Its an Elsa Gladiac 32MB, so there goes the ATI theory. Figures, its an EA product something has to fail.


Thanks all for replying so fast.

quote>

Hehe, well, I was wrong every time, so I wasn't of any help...

But, I'll make it up to you.

Don't waste your time emailing EA Games. They'll never respond, or if they do, they'll tell you to make sure you've updated your drivers. On a game as old as SC4, they don't really care anymore.

[Mystyx 0]

WOOT Sticky this under rendering 1600x1200 bug, I have been also having this problem and it started to drive me crazy.

I was checking scale levels... so back and forth alot to render. I was just about to reinstall to just try and thought i would search a bit first. I bet its just the video card then....  I have always had minor problems running 1600x1200 in certain situations and have used 1600x1200 for the past 8 years now.

I have used both ATI 9600PRO 128mb & now have a ATI all-in-wonder 9800PRO 256mb.

check bottom of message about drivers for ATI

my last thought would have been the resolution. maybe we should start sending screen shots to ATI

 

I thought id come back and add a couple pics to this....

 

 

awsome thread....  PROBLEM #1 SOLVED!! '); height=20 alt=Insert smilie src=https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/44.gif width=33 border=0>

 

Mystyx

 

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 10/19/2005 7:06:32 AM
Author: Mystyx
WOOT Sticky this under rendering 1600x1200 bug...

Mystyx

quote>

Ask and you shall receive...

Well, not quite, but I thought it was a pretty good idea.

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

Date: 10/19/2005 7:06:32 AM
Author: Mystyx

WOOT Sticky this under rendering 1600x1200 bug, I have been also having this problem and it started to drive me crazy.

I was checking scale levels... so back and forth alot to render. I was just about to reinstall to just try and thought i would search a bit first. I bet its just the video card then.... I have always had minor problems running 1600x1200 in certain situations and have used 1600x1200 for the past 8 years now.

I have used both ATI 9600PRO 128mb & now have a ATI all-in-wonder 9800PRO 256mb.

check bottom of message about drivers for ATI

my last thought would have been the resolution. maybe we should start sending screen shots to ATI

I thought id come back and add a couple pics to this....

awsome thread.... PROBLEM #1 SOLVED!! ');' height=20 alt='Insert smilie ' src='https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/44.gif' width=33 border=0>

Mystyx

quote>


That gap issue is not just an ATI issue, it is a SC4 issue. I have an NVIDIA graphics driver, top notch, and it doesn't even render right at 1600x1200. So, this is something that Maxis (lol...lol....roflmao) will have to fix. But, you know how that goes.

[SimFox 802]

well, although it solves some problems (like those NOT rendered cities), it lives the problem of big cities unresolved... after saving then at resolution 1600x1200 and higher (1920x1200 in my case) gaps reappear... Very sad...
Another graphics issue is that game never runs in 32 bit color. Although it says so in the options. to get it to run inn true 32 bit color it has to be started in Window mode not a full screen one... Reason for this may be that game being so old doesn't recognize modern videocards (ATI 9800Pro and GeForse 6600GT) or to be perhaps their drivers and automatically reduces color depth.

[Skink000 0]

This site rocks, you people ROCK. I just bought SC4 Deluxe about two weeks ago when I picked up The Sims 2 and it's expansion packs. I saw where you could make your own nieghborhoods for The Sims 2 with SC4 so I figured in for a penny, in for a pound. I have been trying to learn how to create SC4 regions from Digital Elevation Models (DEM's) for the past week and today got my first one to load into the game . Low and behold but not to my surprize I had data missing in the form of strips on the south side of my large cities. I didnt know if it was a problem of scale, image size or what so I thought I would look here before troubleshooting . Boy am I glad I did.

For video I am running a ATI Radeon X850 Premium 256MB and had rendered at 1600 X 1200 so I could see the map better (these old eyes like to play at a lower res), go figure. Dropping the resolution to render solved the problem. THANKS YOU VERY VERY MUCH.

Still have to work out the details such as elevetion changes are to abrupt, mountains to high and rugged and general map accuracy . While I'm here can anyone give a few tips or even key words about manipulating the actual city grid . And Thanks again.

Sorry could not figure out how to get past all the security on this machine to post an image this late at night.

 

 

 --They say that if you play a microsoft cd backwards you hear demonic voices... but thats nothing - when you play it forwards it installs windows-- (found on web)

[tungston 19]

Skink000:

The city grid is set by the color and size of the config.bmp. Here is the formula:

grayscale to config.bmp ratio :

64:1 plus 1

Large city = 4x4 pixels blue

Medium city = 2x2 pixels green

Small city = 1x1 pixels red

As for the elevation abruptness, you could try running the grayscale through the "Landscape Designer", it tends to soften the edges.

Here is the elevation scale:

RGB= 0: 252 meters (827 feet) below sea level

RGB= 84: Sea level

RGB= 255: 513 meters (1683 feet) above sea level

Other elevation values:

RGB= 50: 102 meters (335 feet) below sea level

RGB=100: 48 meters (157 feet) above sea level

RGB= 150: 198 meters (650 feet) above sea level

RGB= 200: 348 meters (1142 feet) above sea level

[Skink000 0]

Thanks for the reply Tungston,


It is a big help. I am just getting into this site, sc4, and mapping for sc4. This has quickly become my favorite site on the web and find I spend much more time trying to learn mapping than playing the game. Having been a Geography major I find the mapping WAY cool. It is the well seasoned veterans, like yourself, on this site that are the backbone to this great community and are what make it such fun to be here.

I am trying to learn to map to scale (so much for the Keep It Simple Stupid rule of thumb, (enter maniacle laughter here)) and now seem to have enough understanding of the file sizes so I can at least render my mistakes (please enter more maniacle here, thanks).
I have been able to render maps up to 100Km Sq (rendering time was a little under 2 hours on this rig) and have gone back to 16Km Sq (10-15Min) till I get better at it. I have one map that is 60Km Sq that is centered around Mt Desert Island/Bar Harbor on the Maine coast. The elevations are still off but it seems to play well.

Thanks again,

Skink000

[cowkilla 12]

i noticed that when i run sim city on my machine and render a map gaps appear, but when i run sim city in windowed mode the gaps do not appear, bot the standard simcity and the windowed mode are running at 16oo-12oo

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Even though the windowed mode might be running when your screen has a resolution of 1600x1200, the resolution of the game itself in window mode (the size of the window) is less. That might explain it?

[blade2k5 1,523]

Lately, when I've tried to render maps I've made, it renders about two-thirds of the map and cuts the rest off. It does this with every size map and always cuts off in the same spot. I've never had this issue before and am at my wits end trying to figure out why. The only mod I'm using is the navy blue water color mod.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Hmmm... just out of curiosity, try loading one of the cities that doesn't render properly. It might be that it did render properly, but it is not showing up on the region map...

[SC4BOY 20]

There is absolutely no question that the game has some real problems with more modern video drivers and hardware.. There are ways to solve it but SC4 is just an old game built on even older technology.. In fact I expect that some of their preblems were that they tried to "solve" problems for state-of-the-art displays at a time when video technology was evolving and very much in flux.. As the final results for video drivers settled, it wasn't too friendly to good ol SC4 .. But hey.. it all works ya just gotta get around a few "gotcha's" And I expect for an old game it would be very cost prohibitive to "solve" the problem properly, so I expect no resolution will come from EA. Your video card company may offer some "solutions" too.. I know ATI does.

[tungston 19]

Originally posted by: cowkilla i noticed that when i run sim city on my machine and render a map gaps appear, but when i run sim city in windowed mode the gaps do not appear, bot the standard simcity and the windowed mode are running at 16oo-12ooquote>

 

There is a known issue when rendering at 1600x1200 resolution.  If you render at a lower resolution, then you can change back to the higher resolution, and all should be fine.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: MallowTheCloud Hmmm... just out of curiosity, try loading one of the cities that doesn't render properly. It might be that it did render properly, but it is not showing up on the region map...quote>

I tried what you suggested and it would kick me out of the game.  So what I did was just completely empty out my plugins folder [over 1300 files at 1.18gb], re-installed the navy blue water mod, then rendered a small map.  It rendered perfectly in like 5 minutes.  I went for broke and started a 24kmx24km map.  Fifteen minutes later it was done and came out perfectly, so it seems that I had crossed beyond the threshold amount of plugins my system could handle. 

Anyways, thanks for the tip, it's one I'll keep in mind.