What is music?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

There was a clip on the CBC news this morning of some group in OZ screaming into the microphone with a background set of more-or-less white noise produced by various electric/electronic devices. IMHO this is not music.

I believe that music should be memorable. It should have a tune you can quote and remember. It should have lyrics you can clearly hear and remember if it has lyrics. It should also have a memorable rhythm to help you remember it. The current 8 to the maybe doesn't do it for me. The noise mentioned above doesn't fall into my definition.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Most of the good Music has already been made.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Most of the good Music has already been made.

That's what everyone thought after J.S. Bach. Beethoven and some others had more to say. The floundering around we see now will eventually give birth to a new genre. The mess now is due to the number of national styles that we have all become aware of in the last sixty years os so.

First there will be a flash back to the "classics", probably the stuff of Tin Pan Alley, then the emergence of something entirely new. Music goes in cycles, with flash backs, then advances. Let's see, how does it go:

1600 - Baroque

1750 - Classical

1850 - Romantic (There was a Baroque flashback here to Bach)

1920 - Modern Atonal

1930 - Jazz

1940 - Lush Broadway musicals

1960 - Simply Folk

1950s - (parallel) - Rock 'n' Roll (Love me Tender is new lyrics to an old song - Aura Lee)

1980s Electronica (Also Jacques Lussier Trio - Play Bach Jazz)

2000 - Experimental

present - feeling out a new genre

And if the Broadway musical is the culmination of music drama that was started in 1604 by Claudio Monteverdi, peaked with Richard Wagner, and continues with shows like Les Mis and Jesus Christ Superstar where is music drama going?

Tough times often springs forth new music. We'll see what happens in the next ten years or so.

[MandelSoft 2,769]

To me, music must have a melody. Therefore, most hip-hop and rap tracks, as well as some really loud genres like hardstyle can hardly be called music in my opinion.

[x493x 446]

I'd say anything with a tune is music. It may not be music to you buy it is music to somebody (therefore making it music).

The one music I can't stand is musicals. I just don't understand when you have to randomly brake into song in the middle of a football game or something. Can't stand it.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Jazzmaster 716]

I'm extremely open minded to music, I don't really think any music is bad, or non music. I look at music from the angle of the artist, and what they intended with their music, rather than what I grew up with, my defintion of music, how I expect things to be, etc. (I don't like being wrapped in my own reality alone).

However, I do agree that sound engineering is not what it used to be; typically. Most modern bands seem to have multiple guitars layered together, and it's hard to hear the individual instruments. I refer to this as 'sound wall'. Albeit it, most people nowadays prefer low quality mp3 compression because it's easier to access (read: download illegally). Why? Well, I don't know.

[Eʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ 273]

Everything I like is music. Everything I don't like isn't. Nah, I'm kidding I'm not that narcissistic...

But, alot of people act that way toward different types of music and personally, I believe there is no true definition of music. I'll actually quote something by Jean-Jacques Nattiez, a famous Canadian Musicology professor at the University of Montreal.

"The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus ... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be." (Nattiez 48)

I completely agree with his point and really, it depends on the viewpoint. Each person has a border between what they consider music and noise. So if we look at this at the viewpoint of ourselves we are able to determine our own border. However, if we look at society in general there will never be general consensus on what music is and isn't.

Source: Nattiez, Jean-Jacques (1990). Music and discourse: toward a semiology of music.

  Edited August 18, 2011 by elemented9  

[Larks2242 251]

1980s Electronica (Also Jacques Lussier Trio - Play Bach Jazz)

2000 - Experimental

present - feeling out a new genre

You forgot the 90s, the best decade for music.

What is my opinion on music: Music to me has to be "real", meaning it has to be about life and not about stuff like how mucxh money you got ect. and it also has to be "true" as in if you say something in your music you have to be able to back it up, As Pimp C and Bun B of UGK said, if a song can be a song it has to be trill. Only then can you be considered an artist, a perfect example is Spice 1 or Tupac. Its sad how some groups like Dipset Diplomats and 50 swagger jack from people on the westcoast cause they try to diss them with their own music, but in reality they arn't as real.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I'd say anything with a tune is music. It may not be music to you buy it is music to somebody (therefore making it music).

The one music I can't stand is musicals. I just don't understand when you have to randomly brake into song in the middle of a football game or something. Can't stand it.

The music has to advance the plot. Just drop everything and sing is not a music drama, it is a musical review.

I don't know what you've seen, but you really should look at some of the good shows like Oklahoma or South Pacific. Oklahoma is just a romp, but there is a very pointed moral message in South Pacific. These shows are the twentieth century's answer to the popular musical shows of the nineteenth century, namely Italianate grand opera. As you grow older, you might be exposed to some Opera, and it should be done carefully: Mozart first, then Bizet, then Offenbach, then Weber, then Wagner (Der Flegende Hollander), then Beethoven, then Monteverdi. After that, you don't need more tuition, just enjoy.

Musicals have been around since 1604, and I don't think they are going away. Have you seen Glee?

[Eʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ 273]

You forgot the 90s, the best decade for music.

Oasis, The Verve, Nirvana, Blur... I agree sir.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You forgot the 90s, the best decade for music.

No, I can count. I was talking about trends in real music. What happened in the 1990s? Music doesn't go by decades you know.

The current stuff is such a mixed bag, that it is too soon to comment. We have to see what survivies.

[Larks2242 251]

You forgot the 90s, the best decade for music.

I was talking about trends in real music. What happened in the 1990s?

I guess you never heard of Regulators, Warren G, Nate Dogg and G-Funk.

They won a grammy in 1994 for that song, its a whole different type of music then anything pre 90s.

[Jelendria 3]

i ThInK mUsIc's aNyThInG wItH a MeLoDy.

If it don't got a rhythm or beat, it's not music. Sometimes melody is hard to tell.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Terring 6,473]

Music is everywhere. Rain, pulsar, canaries, whales, Jean Michel Jarre, everything makes music. For me, music is the Cosmos itself

[Hamish 1,369]

I personally don’t like where music is going. I don’t like how there is an incessant reliance on bass, where it gets up to a point that the bass track is pretty much the only thing in the song. Where’s the mid range, the treble? That’s where the interesting stuff happens, the bass should be there to set the tone of the song, how deep or light it feels etc.

And I really don’t see the point in teenagers modifying their 1990s (or older) cars to get more power out of them, but then shoving the biggest stereo system they can find, and the biggest bass they can get, turning down trebles, turning up the bass, and then downloading music at such a low fidelity that they could get the same quality out of their stock speakers. It amazes me, but that’s another topic all together.

But that’s probably just my upbringing. I’m into rock/alternative, whatever it’s called now. Although it seems to have declined in popularity over the last few years. I’m really excited for what the new Foo Fighters album means. It’s taking the genre back to where it began. They recorded it at home, in their garage, on tape, and their music has never sounded better. It’s the way it should sound, no fancy effects, no tone correcting microphones, just pure raw music. And isn’t that what Rock and Rolls all about?

However, even though I don’t like where technology is taking us, I still find it exciting that someone can sit down at a computer, and in an afternoon have the basis of a song, or a whole song completed. It’s a freedom of speech, a creative outlet that most people should be able to tap into. I’m hoping that this next decade brings us something different, something new. I lose count, while listening to “new” music on the radio, of how many songs have almost exactly the same rhythms and beat in them. It drives me crazy, can’t they just make something original for once? A new beat, they have technology to create really interesting sounds, yet it’s all the same. (I’m sure many people could say this about my musical choice too though) I also don’t like what some of these “Popular” songs have in their lyrics. Some of them are so full of self promotion/proclamation that I really have a hard time trying to work out why we should care for what their saying in their song. I don’t care how much money you have, or want, and I don’t care what kind of car you drive. I just know that it’s better than mine, and why should I support your efforts of getting more money than me, and then bragging about it?

Which brings me back to rock music/punk/grunge. It was everyday people, who had written music about topics that deeply affected them and their fans. Nirvana, perfect example, wasn’t about getting money, it wasn’t about becoming famous, it was about the pressures that their generation was going through, the oppression, the exclusion from society because of their beliefs, and it always had emotion in the some, something that I don’t see happening in this generation of music.

Anyway, I think that if you’re an artist, and you define your creations as music, then it is music. I value everyone’s opinion on what music is, and if you tell me you like something that’s not my cup of tea, then I value your decision because I think of music as a personal expression, and that can’t be taken away with people.

[Alejandro24 575]

...

1960 - Simply Folk

1950s - (parallel) - Rock 'n' Roll (Love me Tender is new lyrics to an old song - Aura Lee)

1980s Electronica (Also Jacques Lussier Trio - Play Bach Jazz)

2000 - Experimental

present - feeling out a new genre

...

Electronic music exixts from XIX century. Noise is the first subgenre of this kind of music.

Actual Noise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt0JqUVOqZE

And Powernoise, subvariation more near to the techno.

Map of the electronic music, from 70's

Now, the question is: When the music starts to be noise?

Is subjective. For me, the examples above are music, a peculiar kind of music. For another is disordered sound, noise.

  Edited August 18, 2011 by Alejandro24  

[Duke87 1,070]

It's tough to define music, but I personally tend to be very inclusive rather than exclusive about these things. I would say anything that has any sort of tune to it (a sequence of different notes) is music, regardless of what those notes are, what's playing them, and what they sound like.

The interesting thing is how over time the purpose of music has changed. In the olden days, music was usually intended to be soothing. Nowadays you have a lot of music which is intended to be exciting. This goes along with the change that recreation in the olden days usually involved relaxation, whereas nowadays it often involves seeking thrills.

Ultimately, though, different people will look for different things. Some seek good lyrics and consider the melody unimportant. Some seek good melody and consider the lyrics unimportant. Some (like me) don't consider either alone to be particularly important and care more about the overall sound.

One curious thing I've noticed is that men tend to prefer music sung by men while women tend to prefer music sung by women (you would think it would be the other way around...). I can take either in general, although I usually don't like love songs sung by men (or worse, a male/female duet).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, I don't consider grunge to be a genre. It is a degenerate form of Rock. In fact, most of the current stuff is just a reinterpretation with great license of Rock.

You'll notice, however, there is a certain resurgence in Jazz and 1920s style ballads (Michael Buble), and some continuing presence of Folk, and Country.

Nothing current has stuck me as anything but noise with too much bass, little melody, and poor vocal presentation. Most of these characters who swallow the mike don't have enough voice to be heard in the front row without it. Beat alone doth not musik make. Lately, the weather gods seem to be agreeing with me.

When I was studying voice, the trick was to be heard at the back of the hall without any assistance. All it takes is good pipes and proper breathing. You can't breathe well when your lungs are full of dope.

You can spot a good singer if they can sing the U.S. national anthem on key as written.

However, one man's music is another man's annoyance.

  Edited August 19, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[Easy Bakes 253]

You can spot a good singer if they can sing the U.S. national anthem on key as written.

this is why you never see these bubble gum pop stars, who are all about getting thier names out as often as possible, never do National Anthems at the 1000s of sports events every year, they cant sing worth a dang with out thier electronic support systems that make them sound like they do.

PA systems really show who can and cant really sing on key.

  Edited August 19, 2011 by Easy Bakes  

[astronelson 339]

I like my music much the same as my poetry - the choice of metrical foot and metre in each verse correspond to the choice of time signature, tempo, and notes being played in harmony. Indeed, one of my criteria for a good poem is that reading it aloud should blur the distinction between speech and song.

So I define music as something that contains harmony, a consistent tempo, and a consistent time signature, at least within each verse, or in the case of non-lyrical music, each movement.

I know it's not a particularly rigorous definition, and there are probably exceptions, but it's a decent rule of thumb.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I like my music much the same as my poetry - the choice of metrical foot and metre in each verse correspond to the choice of time signature, tempo, and notes being played in harmony. Indeed, one of my criteria for a good poem is that reading it aloud should blur the distinction between speech and song.

So I define music as something that contains harmony, a consistent tempo, and a consistent time signature, at least within each verse, or in the case of non-lyrical music, each movement.

I know it's not a particularly rigorous definition, and there are probably exceptions, but it's a decent rule of thumb.

Astro, have you ever heard the piece "Classical Gas"? The time signature alternates between 4/4 and 5/4 every bar.

[x493x 446]

I'm one who likes a good bass, it's one of the things that makes a song for me. I think the fact is when you were born and where you grew up means you like different music. If you grow up now in South Central, rap is probably the way you go, if you grew up in the 20's, jazz is probaly the way you go.

I'm sure what A Nonny Moose thinks is good music is totally different from what I think is good music because of two reason, our generation, and where we grew up. That's what music preference seems to depend on, those two things.

[Alejandro24 575]

I'm one who likes a good bass, it's one of the things that makes a song for me. I think the fact is when you were born and where you grew up means you like different music. If you grow up now in South Central, rap is probably the way you go, if you grew up in the 20's, jazz is probaly the way you go.

I'm sure what A Nonny Moose thinks is good music is totally different from what I think is good music because of two reason, our generation, and where we grew up. That's what music preference seems to depend on, those two things.

Maybe you're right. The definition of music and its tastes has its variations through many factors. Geographical, Education, Cultural, Family, Communication, Generation, etc... Although I see that depends the ambition of the person to look for music material.

[Jelendria 3]

Melody is key, rhythm and beat are pretty important. If a sound has no discernible melody, it's not music.

Poeme electronique is not music despite being part of music appreciation class.

  Edited August 19, 2011 by Jelendria  

[Ion_Cannon 677]

There is no real way to define music apart from "Ordered noise" It is much like art can be anything you say it is, you can say two twigs on a plate is art and nobody can say it isn't.

If we're talking about what I think is music, well for a start I think it requires some musical talent, so the lookalike, soundalike, generic & boring pop/rnb rap that is currently popular are out for a start.

Secondly even if something isn't to my liking, I can still see why it should be considered music, wether that be because of the interesting song structure, the use of the instruments, the composistion of the piece or the musical expertise of those playing.

As for my tastes about 80% of my tracks are rock and metal , though I have found there are so many diverse subgenres within both that really one band that is classed as rock can sound completely different to another band also classed as rock, and I love that.

  Edited August 19, 2011 by Ion_Cannon  

[Alejandro24 575]

Melody is key, rhythm and beat are pretty important. If a sound has no discernible melody, it's not music.

Poeme electronique is not music despite being part of music appreciation class.

And why not? Poeme electronique is a classical masterpiece of the early modern electronic music, part of the music concréte, the base of mostly all actual electronic music.

[hym 358]

You can spot a good singer if they can sing the U.S. national anthem on key as written.

this is why you never see these bubble gum pop stars, who are all about getting thier names out as often as possible, never do National Anthems at the 1000s of sports events every year, they cant sing worth a dang with out thier electronic support systems that make them sound like they do.

PA systems really show who can and cant really sing on key.

FWIW, the music industry has real time autotuning hardware that can be brought out to sporting events.

[Madjohnny 0]

There is no real way to define music apart from "Ordered noise" It is much like art can be anything you say it is, you can say two twigs on a plate is art and nobody can say it isn't.

Agree, "Ordered Noise" is the best definition I've heard.