My, how we've changed

[Abc987 3]

Simtropolis is a much different site from years' past. I haven't really visited in years (Other than just looking at the homepage), but now that I've spent some time stalking - er, browsing - the forums, I realize that this is a much different community than the one I had last seen, both in terms of layout/design but, more importantly, attitude. It seems less like a place for old, established, "grandfather" members to have fireside chats, and more of a hip romping ground filled with diversity, but perhaps lacking a bit of class. I'm not sure which I like more, but do others see this change?

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Classiness is limited to certain topics but there is an active discussion.

Do not get my basic stats to the right wrong. I did not join into the discussions until at least 2008 and did not become active until 2009.

My first 5 posts were in 2007 but my hundredth post was in 2009. My 1,0000 post was hit in the past year.

I was a STEX Downloader in 2005. I actually remember everything I got off the STEX and BSC LEX. Before summer of 2005, I was just downloading the garbage on the official EA site.

Then again, I turned 14 in Summer of 2005.

  Edited July 19, 2011 by OcramSeattle  

[TekindusT 3,809]

This community is awesome for many aspects, and one of these is that virtually anyone feels comfortable here. It helps that SC4 is such a "different" game. I mean, you won't see many retired people in Call of Duty's community forums, but you can here, because this game can be played with the pace you want/need; what makes it suitable both for elderly people or for even kids; this is why this community age range goes from elderly people to teenagers.

Oh, and who wants class if you have a site (now I'm only speaking about ST) where flame wars are inexistant, spamming is kept to a minimum, and trolling is rare? It's just a nice and quite place to "live", don't you think?

  Edited July 19, 2011 by TekindusT  

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Duke87 1,070]

Your analysis is pretty accurate. The old guard is mostly gone and we've got the next generation in here instead.

What's interesting is that I don't think the average age has changed. It's just that those born in the early to mid 90's are different in personality and attitude from those of us born in the mid to late 80's. We're replaced the Gen Y-ers who are the kids of baby boomers with Gen Z-ers who are the kids of Gen X-ers.

Nonetheless, some of us can't help but stick around and play old fogey.

*shakes cane* 413,000 members? Why in my day, it was a big deal when we reached 10,000 members!

And I get to do things like explain to people that Walkmans existed as cassette players before they existed as CD players.

It is scary to think, though. In a few days it will have been eight years ago that I registered here. It was the summer right in the middle of high school between 10th and 11th grades. Now I'm a couple years out of college and working. A saner man would have moved on years ago.

But, well, you know what they say. Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional.

Good to see an old face pop in every once in a while though.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Unless someone was born rich, people born in the early 90s should know what radio/cassette Walkmans were.

I just looked it up and my younger sister and I are in Generation Y.

  Edited July 20, 2011 by OcramSeattle  

[Abc987 3]

Good to see an old face pop in every once in a while though.

It's good to be back, honestly. Maybe I'll stick around for a while this time.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Wow Im coming up on 8 years too.

3 computers ago.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Nonetheless, some of us can't help but stick around and play old fogey.

*shakes cane* 413,000 members? Why in my day, it was a big deal when we reached 10,000 members!

And I get to do things like explain to people that Walkmans existed as cassette players before they existed as CD players.

And those of us ancients [age wise] who can't help but remind your generation of black & white television before color came along, or before video and vcrs, microwave ovens, unleaded gasoline...the list goes on and on.

  Edited July 20, 2011 by blade2k5  

[Meg 368]

And those of us ancients [age wise] who can't help but remind your generation of black & white television before color came along, or before video and vcrs, microwave ovens, unleaded gasoline...the list goes on and on.

Plastic bottles. Liquids came in either glasses bottles, cans, or cardboard cartons.

That one seems to surprise people sometimes.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

And then there are dinosaurs like me around. Milk came in bottles with the cream floating on top, delivered by a horse and wagon. The bread was home delivered by a horse drawn wagon too, and we had an ice-box with a block of ice from the horse drawn wagon too.

As far as computer gaming is concerned, I guess I am a late bloomer. But I've been playing SC4 since it was first released. Found ST when things went sour on the EA site.

Spent many years in the computer business, and it is true "Old programmers never die, they just get a little buggy".

[x493x 446]

I still haven't found a better organized and welcoming forum than Simtropolis's. When your on Simtropolis people don't really isolate people like other forums, we just bring them into the crowd.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I still haven't found a better organized and welcoming forum than Simtropolis's. When your on Simtropolis people don't really isolate people like other forums, we just bring them into the crowd.

Well, of course. We are a considerable minority of computer gamers.

[EyeofMobius 27]

This is the second really good forum I have been a part of but the other one inevitabely changed when the game went from an Obscure Playstation Title to an attempted XBOX 360 Flagship title...I also unloaded all of my consoles and moved to England for awhile and subsequently different parts of the Canadian Wilderness...but when I glanced back in on the old forum I was no longer able to engage in a conversation with any of the new strangers.

As far as the Game of Simcity goes I am very pleased that major projects like NAM and SPAM are still being developed as it is giving us more outstanding updates to the game than EA does with 'The Sims'.

It's still all pretty fresh and hospitible here...I like it.

[Eʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ 273]

I still haven't found a better organized and welcoming forum than Simtropolis's. When your on Simtropolis people don't really isolate people like other forums, we just bring them into the crowd.

Well, of course. We are a considerable minority of computer gamers.

Very true. I've been on other online communities in the past and its ridiculous the amount of unnecessary drama and hostility that occurs. I love simtropolis because of the friendly and welcoming community we have. Its always been that way and I absolutely love it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Let us all give thanks to the moderators and administrators who do this for the same pay that doubles every year.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Nonetheless, some of us can't help but stick around and play old fogey.

*shakes cane* 413,000 members? Why in my day, it was a big deal when we reached 10,000 members!

And I get to do things like explain to people that Walkmans existed as cassette players before they existed as CD players.

And those of us ancients [age wise] who can't help but remind your generation of black & white television before color came along, or before video and vcrs, microwave ovens, unleaded gasoline...the list goes on and on.

Ah yes! those "good old days" single channel TV's, no calculators or personal computers, no way of recording programs.

Although milk and "pop" drinks in glass bottles (ultimate recycling), taking the empties back and getting money for them. Regular visits by the Grocer, Green Grocer, Baker, Butcher delivering to your door, two deliveries of post a day. Banks clearing cheques in 3 days, and knowing the manager.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Those were the middle days. I think you forgot to mention the deliveries by the Luftwaffe, who were in business in my youth. We only had to worry about Admiral Canaris' boys over here after the U.S. entered the war. Until they caught on that they really were at war, they were sitting ducks. My dad spent the war from 1941 to 1946 in London.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Those were the middle days. I think you forgot to mention the deliveries by the Luftwaffe, who were in business in my youth. We only had to worry about Admiral Canaris' boys over here after the U.S. entered the war. Until they caught on that they really were at war, they were sitting ducks. My dad spent the war from 1941 to 1946 in London.

A bit before my time. As a point of interest my father spent the war 1939 - 1946 in India and Burma.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Smith Brothers' Farms still deliver bottles of milk to customers' doors. Their milk is homogenized and pasteurized but also organic. Organic or flavored milk is almost always ultra-pasteurized. Former classmates living in my neighborhood used to get it and I remember that it tasted different from what I was used to (cheap, ultra-pasteurized, non-organic, generic, local-ish milk).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In the good (bad?) old days, we used to get milk still warm from the cow. My aunt had a dairy farm. Now that was milk. We never worried about health dangers, after all the herd was healthy. Also, in those days, you didn't give your cows hormones or anti-biotics. They didn't exist. She had a few goats, too, but all we ever did with them was try to ride them. Goat's milk was known to carry Typhus unless it was Pasteurized. Let's hear it for the 1940s.

[IDS2 3,346]

I hear a whole lot of back-in-the-day stories, but it worries me that I can already relate (to a very small extent). I talk to my younger cousins who are like, 8 years old and already have Droids. Say WHAAAAT? I got a phone 2 and a half years ago, and I'm using the same model today. You're like, 8, why do you need that?!

To be fair, the one I have is pretty much indestructible. My friend broke his brand new touchscreen-only 4G phone within 3 days. I prefer the durability, why do I need to update my status while I call 3 friends and play angry birds, all from pretty much anywhere? Exactly, I don't. Also, I refuse to get a Kindle. I know it probably saves paper, but I just can't get over not turning pages.

Regarding ST, maybe it's just because it's summer but it sure feels quiet around here, especially in the BAT section. I've also noticed an influx of members that are, surprisingly, younger than me. It's weird I sorta miss the old days, with NDEX and the BSC still being here and all that.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Everyone should have access to emergency contacts whenever needed. If I was a father, I would have an Internet phone at home that is easy enough for 4 year olds to use that can only be used by pressing the button of an emergency contact with their photo on it. A more high tech version of the phone I used. If my children were 8 to 12, I would get them Jitterbug style phones. If they were 12-16, I would get them basic durable phones with txt. Above that age, I would let then use any communications device they wanted to use (that I could afford).

I would also let them read any children's picture book or absolutely any chapter book without pictures as long as they tell me. They could decide to read dirty novels and I would let them read it as long as they told me and that there were no pictures. I would not have television and only let them watch approved programming. By giving them a choice between unlimited reading or family-friendly educational programming, I hope I would encourage them to read.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I got this inthe Emails today

The Green Thing

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind.. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

[Abc987 3]

I don't think many people are under the impression that the average "old folk" was wasteful in their day. Just the opposite, in my opinion. Just looking at all the stuff my grandparents save before throwing them away (They will reuse dirty paper towels for days1) is enough to see that people were a whole lot less wasteful back then.

I don't think people today blame the average "old folk" for any of the environmental problems we are having today. The issue is really our industrial practices that we've been using for the best century or so. It's really not average people that are the problem, but the general industrial and economic system we've been using. For example, growing food in Brazil, then flying it to the UK to be washed and disinfected, then shipping it to India for packaging, then shipping it to the U.S. for consumption is a lot more wasteful then not reusing shopping bags, in my opinion.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

There is no doubt that plastics are the curse of our age, and the greatest curse is bottled water. Bottled water costs, on average, more than gasoline. At home, if you don't like your tap water, you can easily get a filter, either on the tap or in a container you can keep in the refrigerator. I have used tap water all my life, even when it was from local wells, with no ill effects, but then, I am one of the old folks.

Maybe we are tougher than the generations that we have mistakenly wrapped in cotton wool and sheltered from this and that; notably disappointment and failure, even in the school system which is, among other things, supposed to be a life lesson. Our current civilization is decadent, and it is out fault. After the great wars of the 20th century, we took to consumerism in a big way. We had just emerged from the Great Depression, which ended in about 1950 or thereabouts. After a famine, great plenty was greatly tempting. Inflation made it seem as if we had a lot of money, but it is false. You still get about what you got for the same amount of work in 1940 dollars. It is just that the current value of the dollar is about five 1940 cents.

What do you pay for a dozen eggs? I remember when a dozen farm fresh eggs were twelve cents. These eggs were not processed or massaged in any way except to be washed, candled and put in cartons. Sometimes there were bits of hay in the carton. The eggs were generally shades of brown, and were very tasty compared to the factory farmed white pale-tasting product of today. By the way, eggs were rationed during the war. Most of them were processed into powder and sent to the fighting forces.

Yes, milk came in bottles, straight from the dairy. It only came one way: whole. The cream separated and floated on top of the milk. It was pasteurized, then placed in sterilized glass bottles for delivery door-to-door by a horse cart and driver. The milkman came every day. The dairy usually had an attached store where you could purchase butter, if you had the coupons for it, and heavy cream. The milkman also had an ice box on the cart with some butter and cream. He often ran out.

Butter and lard were the only fats available. There were no calorie-reduced "foods" of any kind. I seem to recall that butter was expensive. Twenty-five cents a pound, so it was used sparingly. You used lard in baking, because that was what there was. Pie crusts and cakes were just as good if not better than anything you get now. I remember my mother switched to Crisco (hydrogenated soy bean oil) when it came on the market because she said her cakes were lighter. She didn't care that they were also healthier.

Bread was somewhere between five and ten cents a loaf. Fresh, no preservatives, not sliced. You used it quickly because after about three days it was only good for toast, and after a week it was green. The baker's cart came daily, but we didn't always buy fresh bread. Only every couple of days, and for sure on Saturday. Our baker made a special hermit-style cookie called wine drops. They were a great treat, and only once in a long while.

Flour was rationed. When she could my mother made pies and cakes, but she always kept some flour around for thickening stews and soupls, which we ate often because of the rationing. Recently, after a lot of thought, I recreated my mother's potato soup. No stock, just water, potatoes, onions, a bay leaf, salt, pepper, a big gob of butter and flour thickening. It was wonderful. I hadn't had it for some fifty years.

Have we changed? More than you know.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I know we changed, we have processed junk food that bring more calories and salt per ounce of gold than anything ever made before. My Dad comes from a place where only bottled water is safe to drink without fancy machinery so he only drinks bottled water, Dasani to be exact because peñafiel is the only bottled water available (both are by Coca Cola). I bought him a water filter on sale but he uses it so often that it gets moldy so I end up drinking rust from the taps or plastic tasting bottled water. I dislike both so we buy mineral water in glass bottles often. Our state has no bottle return policy so I put it in the recycle. We use grocery bags to hold recyclables.

[simbuilder 1]

Simtropolis is a much different site from years' past. I haven't really visited in years (Other than just looking at the homepage), but now that I've spent some time stalking - er, browsing - the forums, I realize that this is a much different community than the one I had last seen, both in terms of layout/design but, more importantly, attitude. It seems less like a place for old, established, "grandfather" members to have fireside chats, and more of a hip romping ground filled with diversity, but perhaps lacking a bit of class. I'm not sure which I like more, but do others see this change?

I can sort of see what you are saying. I think it has to do with the fact that there are seemingly a lot more people her now, and most of the people from way back when are inactive and don't really post anymore. I have to say, I hardly ever come around this place, but when I do I'm still impressed with how positive the community is. No matter what, this seems like both a friendly a fun board to post on.

[Duke87 1,070]

It's a matter of growing up and moving on. How many things does the average person still do in their 20's that they were doing as a teenager? People have different friends, more mature interests, careers instead of school, etc.

As much as I love the concept of "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional" (I even have a T shirt that says it on the back), I haven't been immune to it either. Some things never change - I'm still here, I'm still reading online comics, I'm still collecting baseball cards, I'm still drawing maps - but other things do - I stopped playing SimCity years ago and have been finding myself losing interest in video games outright in the past year or so, I've stopped playing with Legos, I've stopped watching TV and listening to the radio.

But it's different for everyone. It's interesting how people's paths can can part ways and things can change. To think, simbuilder, that you used to have more posts than me.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

Uh, has the topic changed from the original poster to this point? I guess in that case I'll share my impressions of both discusions.

I love ST. I've posted on various other forums, and there has been nowhere else on the internet with a warmer, more accepting group of posters than this site. I posted an awful lot in maybe 07-09, but I was incredibly busy last year and had little time to do this (also, Civ IV took over my computer). However, the siren call of this site brought me back and now while I still can't tell if anyone cares about what I bring to the table, at least I still enjoy myself and I love getting along with the various others here who I remember from before and who I've only recently met.

So far as actually getting old, I think I've been a victim of maturity as well. I still love comics of the super hero variety, specific video games, and generally acting less than half my age (it's just more fun). But I don't really care about Matchbox or Hot Wheels cars anymore, nor do I find myself caring all that much about keeping up with music trends and seeing movies right when they come out (I only just watched Inception last night). Years ago, that would have been IMPORTANT!

The other thing I noticed is my taste in entertainment change. Years ago I LOVED "Razor Ramon" (a raunchy, loud, in-your-face Japanese comedian), but the recent raunchy, loud, in-your-face comedians irritate me. I guess maybe I've grown out of it a bit. Or just I need to get over myself and not pretend I'm 50 when I'm only 30.

Those are my impressions of the ongoing discussions. I'll talk to you all again later!