sumwonyuno's Honolulu BATs

[sumwonyuno 42]

Hello everyone,

I've been recreating various buildings in Honolulu for use in SimCity. I've decided that there needs to be a dedicated thread in the BAT topic to get feedback as quickly as possible.

Released BATs:

Central Pacific Plaza

http://www.simtropol...-pacific-plaza/

Frank F Fasi Municipal Building

http://www.simtropol...cipal-building/

  Edited May 13, 2011 by sumwonyuno  

[Ferrariguy1000 43]

Hmmm, it would be nice to have larger images to see the texture. Other than that, your modeling is pretty good. The rendering is a bit of a problem though. The building looks kinda short. This is common for first time batters or those who do not modify the model. Look here for a bit of info on the "squished building" problem;

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/42299-library-tower-us-bank-tower/page__view__findpost__p__1139950

Great start so far though.

  Edited March 24, 2011 by Ferrariguy1000  

[gutterclub 2,729]

as mentioned before, the models are ok but the textures or lack of make them look like composite or plastic models..compare them to Maxis buildings and other bats and you will surely see.

[harishna 847]

You are off to a good start, I will refrain from commenting on the models you showing as I don't know if you planning to improve these already released buildings or if you planning to show us new creations here.

Regarding the getting feedback as quickly as possible I will say patience is the key...

  Edited March 24, 2011 by harishna  

[sumwonyuno 42]

Thank you all for the comments. I appreciate getting feedback.

I certainly enjoy modeling a lot more than texturing.

For the textures, the .pngs that I used are not "flat". I use 16 pixels per meter. The result is that the final gmax rendering doesn't show a lot of texture detail. For the Frank F Fasi Municipal Building, I do admit that the major texture used could use a bit more of an aged concrete look.

For the scaling issue, I decided to go with real world dimensions because I'm doing a city recreation. I do understand there is the squished look in game. Though for Honolulu, floor heights can be fairly low, and building heights are quite short compared to Maxis and other cities. My intentions are to use the game to create, more than creating for the game. If anyone can convince me otherwise, and can tell me how to scale, then sure.

Creating BATs are one thing, and releasing them is another. This thread will point to released BATs, but I intend this thread mainly as a place for the community to share their thoughts on my work during its progress. I have been posting in my city journal, but I haven't received the sort of substantive and constructive criticism as I might get here. I feel that working on new BATs is a better way to improve my skill set right now because I'm lacking in experience. I certainly am considering improving my released BATs, but at a later time.

@harishna: I meant the "getting feedback as quickly as possible" compared to what I was doing in my city journal. A quick response and update rate there would be considered spamming. Also, feel free to comment now that you know what I intend to do.

  Edited March 24, 2011 by sumwonyuno  

[Odainsaker 2,133]

For the scaling issue, I decided to go with real world dimensions because I'm doing a city recreation. I do understand there is the squished look in game. Though for Honolulu, floor heights can be fairly low, and building heights are quite short compared to Maxis and other cities. My intentions are to use the game to create, more than creating for the game. If anyone can convince me otherwise, and can tell me how to scale, then sure.

I think we are talking about two different meanings for "scale" here. One meaning is the scale of ingame SimCity 4 building types and props in comparison against each other, for which there are huge inconsistencies even among Maxis-made stuff due to this being a game with abstracted elements. Props of sims on the sidewalks often tower over their cars and homes, while some single-level houses look taller than multi-floored office buildings. Most BATters seem to prefer real-world dimensions with occasional adjustments and let their BATs fit in visually among other ingame buildings as they may, as there will always be some apparent discrepancy against some other irregular building or prop. Abandoning real-world dimensions is not being asked here...indeed, it is often best and easiest to stick to them.

The other meaning referred to as "scale" involves the comparison of the rendered image of a single BAT against an image of the real-world building, for which a "squished" effect destroying proportions is commonly and immediately noticed. The "squished" ingame look is not a fault of regional architectural variations or Maxis ingame element scales, but is instead entirely a fluke of the ingame SimCity 4 camera, which uses an axonometric or parallel perspective view to create the unreal 3D illusion. Because this type of mathematically abstracted 3D view is a distortion away from the reality perceived by our eyes, we perceive distortions in foreshortening in the BAT rendered model, ruining the proportions of the work most perceptively along the vertical axis. Mind you, this vertical foreshortening distortion exists solely in the game and is created by the BAT camera...an aerial photo of the real building would not show such perceptible effects, as the vanishing-point-perspective there is based on different principles from the axonometric theoretical abstraction.

The extent of these distortions can be mathematically deduced and broadly countered against. The easiest and most common way used by most BATters is to adjust the completed model and LODs just before rendering or exporting. Select all of your model and LODs, and increase their verticality using the scale tool by 133% (the most common factor, though some use anywhere between 120% and 133%). When rendered, this added height will offset the foreshortening created by the axonometric camera angle, and the rendered model will look like it has retained the original proportions created when we so diligently measured our buildings. No more "squished" look.

It's very easy to do, and takes less than a minute...try it on your latest BATs in a test preview render, and you will immedately see the difference.

Hope this helps...Honolulu has a great collection of its own regional variation of the International Style and Brutalism, and surprisingly its dense downtown center had been measured as having the third largest concentration of skyscrapers in the U.S. after New York City and Chicago. They are just not particularly tall, hehe! My favorite since childhood had been the Ala Moana Building attached to the Ala Moana Shopping Center, which boasted the world's first skyscraper revolving restaurant...a technical dry run for the Seattle Space Needle. This being Honolulu with awesome scenery, yet another rotating restaurant was soon perched atop Waikiki Business Plaza. Perhaps one day those funky flying saucers will make it into SimCity...I have a folder full of images somewhere!

  Edited March 24, 2011 by Odainsaker  

[sumwonyuno 42]

Inuyasha teaching Miroku! You've convinced me.

I've got pictures to show my results. I've tried to find the best picture at the correct perspective. The green line is the corner of reference. The red lines are parallel references for height.

Order: Original - 100% - 120% - 125% - 133%

The results show that 125% scaling is the best choice. In addition if I forget and save with a scaled-up model, I can enter a nice, round .8 to bring it back to original dimensions.

@Odainsaker: Yeah, Honolulu gets shot down because of building heights. I'd be interested in seeing those Honolulu pictures. I'm not sure when I'd start attempting the Ala Moana Building. I'm certain I'd have to use cone tool. I think most buildings in Honolulu are fairly easy to make since they're quite blocky. It's fitting things into rectangular lots that's the problem. I am considering making the Ala Moana Building overhanging for the ploppable version... but if that's not going to work nicely, it'll have to be constrained to its lot.

[Edit]: I love the new 45 degree view in Google Earth for Honolulu. There isn't four directions like in Bing, but at least it's continuous over a wide area.

  Edited March 27, 2011 by sumwonyuno  

[jdenm8 362]

I've been following your work ever since you applied for LEX candidacy (which of course never happened) and I've got to say, I didn't think that the first building you made (the name of which I can't remember) didn't look squashed until you stretched it out and it does actually look quite squashed compared to the stretched version.

I'd just like the bugger to grow in my cities

The Frank F. Fasi building looks much better stretched out like that I'd have to say.

  Edited March 25, 2011 by jdenm8  

[sumwonyuno 42]

@jdenm8: Thank you for following. I understand that Central Pacific Plaza is hard to grow, since it currently needs to be on a corner. I'll address the issue below.

For everyone,

Proposed changes:

All buildings: Stretched 125% vertically, and modified relevant statistics and files for increased volume.

Central Pacific Plaza: Changed required roads from Bottom Left Corner to Front, so it does not need to be built at a particular corner.

Frank F Fasi Municipal Building: Texture changes, additional roof junk, inclusion of night lights on south and north faces.

I haven't uploaded updated versions of the buildings yet because the changes are still a work in progress. Once there is a consensus, I'll update the files on the STEX. If anyone has additional suggestions, do tell.

Now, does anyone know how to apply a gradient map over multiple blocks? I'm using GMAX. I've been trying to figure out how to create a progressively darkened look toward the bottom of the Frank F Fasi Municipal Building. For single blocks, it's easy because you can just mess with the texture. It won't work for those series of horizontal blocks on the south and north face of the building. The triangle columns on the west and east faces need this gradient too, but it already has a specular level map in use (for a horizontal line look).

  Edited March 28, 2011 by sumwonyuno  

[Jasoncw 11,839]

Well, if you want to be scientific about it, then here you go.

[sumwonyuno 42]

@Jasoncw: Thanks for the confirmation.

To everyone,

Here is the north day/night zoom 5 shoot of the (slightly) retextured Frank F Fasi Municipal Building.

I figured out how to do the texture over multiple blocks. I used the rectangle tool + extend, then I attached them all in spline editing mode. I then used a UVW map, and chose the box setting. I wish I found out these things sooner.

If there are no objections, I am planning to upload the new version of Central Pacific Plaza and the Frank F Fasi Municipal Building sometime next week (by April 8th).

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Well, now that you are tweaking these BATs anyway, I think you might as well take advantage of the situation to introduce some further improvements.

For example, you could try adding some grain or "noise" to your textures, because IMO they do not evoke the impression of concrete right now. Somehow everything looks too smooth, more like plastics. This is especially notable on top of the parapet walls, which look unnaturally clean. I also checked some RL pictures and noticed that there are horizontal and vertical seams running across and along the walls; it doesn't look like chiseled out of one massive concrete block. You could try to recreate these seams, and if you add some subtle variation (colour/hue and/or brightness) to each resulting "panel", you should have a much more realistic texture.

Speaking of textures, I noticed that the grey you are using seems to have a green hue to it, which is not a bad thing in itself. Howevr, it clashes a bit with the overall colour palette of the game, which shows a tendency towards a peachy / pink hue. I think the low and medium wealth sidewalk tiles on your screenshot are a suitable hint concerning the right general direction.

On a side note, I was about to ask whether the plaza at the bottom of the building really is that bare and devoid of any detail, but I'm looking at the Google satellite images now, and the only thing up there seem to be some miserable planters. All in all, it looks like you did a good job in recreating the real-life counterpart!

[sumwonyuno 42]

@T Wrecks: I've done my best to incorporate all of the suggestions you made. As for the supposed green hue, I actually put an overlay layer of dark grey-slight yellow (RGB: 777665) on top of the exterior concrete wall textures.

[harishna 847]

The textures are way much better, I can see that there are some concrete blocks that are just visible maybe you should try to make them a little bit more noticeable and rather than adding yellow try to add a little bit to pink to it so it can blend in with the other SC4 buildings (it will make it look better in game). One thing I don't like is the texture for the entrance it looks too blurry kinda as if it was not made of a solid material but rather smoke. I think you should also make the windows a little bit more evident by reducing form the wall and by maybe making them a little bigger in height (they maybe realistic as they are now but I think making them just a little bit more visible will help this one look more appealing to the eye. And even if there are only planters in the entrance adding them would make this look more alive.

over all is a great improvement.

cheers

  Edited April 4, 2011 by harishna  

[sumwonyuno 42]

@harishna: Thank you for the comments. Sorry it took this long to get back to you. I've implemented all of the suggestions you've asked. Here are the results:

I put a light-peach-pink layer (Burned) to replace the dark-grey-yellow color (Overlay). It looks more beige now, right around the color I see it in real life. I don't want to make it look like the Royal Hawaiian Hotel.

[Edit] I've also uploaded an updated version of Central Pacific Plaza on the STEX. If you've already downloaded the original version, please update to the new one (remove all previous versions in your plugins folder and cities).

  Edited April 25, 2011 by sumwonyuno  

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

Its Looking Good So Far. Keep Up The Good Work.