Consumerism

[YorkshireLlama 3]

I consider myself lucky, on the advertising front, coming from the UK, which has (on average) 7 minutes of advertising per hour. This compared to France's 9 minutes, Germany's 12 minutes, and New Zealand's 15 minutes, and the fact that we have the BBC, which, as well as screening good-quality programmes (well, at least most of the time.), has no adverts. So even living in my comparatively almost advert-less world, i'm still infuriated when i watch ITV (which isn't very often, admittedly. lol), and see the ratio of show to advertising, so i feel really sorry for those of you who don't live in the UK.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Duke87 1,070]

Nah, there is something far simpler going on here: PBS as a network has been known to have a leftward slant. Hence, target for right-wing budget cuts. It's just partisanship, nothing more.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

We all agree here that on primetime shows, all we see are advertisements. Though our exposure to it, made us just this commercials in passing. We do not mind them that much anymore though it confirms what we have previously known. We cannot react to this because this is the only way our favorite shows are staying on that screen. Without commercials, there would be no other way but out.

If Pollyanna was a fatalist, you would fit the bill. Most of the people who advertise on the boob tube wouldn't exist without it. Good riddance, I say. I tend to not buy from outfits that advertise on TV during prime-time. They infuriate me.

I am probably one of the few on this forum who remember live TV performances of major works. The people who sponsored those shows had the decency not to interrupt a performance mid-act to insert come banal ad for a cleaning product. And yet, many of these shows were sponsored by soap companies. One of the most important of these shows was Studio One, and I think the sponsor was Proctor and Gamble. How would you react to a commercial for Ivory Snow in the middle of the Dance of the Seven Veils performed by the young and nubile Eartha Kitt? That performance in 1955 was my introduction to grand opera (Salome by Richard Strauss, with Kitt, and Peter Ustinov as Herod).

Of course, if you want to watch something of substance now, you need to watch a PBS station, preferably when they are not begging. I hope everyone supports their local public TV station.

Indecency, thy name is Mad AV.

of course now that the congress is pulling federal funding from PBS

I expect a slow decline then they will be gone. or them to switch to having more ads then just sponsors before the shows.

no more Brit coms

Too bad, but count on governments to do some bone-headed thing like cutting a minor budget item while increasing the military budget. If they kill PBS, then I expect TVO in Toronto can expect to take over a lot of supporters of PBS in Buffalo and Detroit. TVO is the Toronto public broadcaster, and is probably in better shape than PBS. TVO is available as Channel 3 through most cable subscribers outside of the Toronto broadcast area.

The TVO news analyses may be quite strange to U.S. viewers. It tends to be totally international. This may be due to the wide mosaic of nationalities in Toronto. There are also the usual set of political (Canadian politics, economics, etc.) shows. Britcoms tend to be on the BBC channels.

I expect a PBS vacuum on the west coast will be filled by a channel in Vancouver, and maybe one in Calgary.

[Loney 22]

We all agree here that on primetime shows, all we see are advertisements. Though our exposure to it, made us just this commercials in passing. We do not mind them that much anymore though it confirms what we have previously known. We cannot react to this because this is the only way our favorite shows are staying on that screen. Without commercials, there would be no other way but out.

If Pollyanna was a fatalist, you would fit the bill. Most of the people who advertise on the boob tube wouldn't exist without it. Good riddance, I say. I tend to not buy from outfits that advertise on TV during prime-time. They infuriate me.

I am probably one of the few on this forum who remember live TV performances of major works. The people who sponsored those shows had the decency not to interrupt a performance mid-act to insert come banal ad for a cleaning product. And yet, many of these shows were sponsored by soap companies. One of the most important of these shows was Studio One, and I think the sponsor was Proctor and Gamble. How would you react to a commercial for Ivory Snow in the middle of the Dance of the Seven Veils performed by the young and nubile Eartha Kitt? That performance in 1955 was my introduction to grand opera (Salome by Richard Strauss, with Kitt, and Peter Ustinov as Herod).

Of course, if you want to watch something of substance now, you need to watch a PBS station, preferably when they are not begging. I hope everyone supports their local public TV station.

Indecency, thy name is Mad AV.

of course now that the congress is pulling federal funding from PBS

I expect a slow decline then they will be gone. or them to switch to having more ads then just sponsors before the shows.

no more Brit coms

Too bad, but count on governments to do some bone-headed thing like cutting a minor budget item while increasing the military budget. If they kill PBS, then I expect TVO in Toronto can expect to take over a lot of supporters of PBS in Buffalo and Detroit. TVO is the Toronto public broadcaster, and is probably in better shape than PBS. TVO is available as Channel 3 through most cable subscribers outside of the Toronto broadcast area.

The TVO news analyses may be quite strange to U.S. viewers. It tends to be totally international. This may be due to the wide mosaic of nationalities in Toronto. There are also the usual set of political (Canadian politics, economics, etc.) shows. Britcoms tend to be on the BBC channels.

I expect a PBS vacuum on the west coast will be filled by a channel in Vancouver, and maybe one in Calgary.

Just a question, what's the range of a TV digital signal? I live in Illinois and my TV has about 15 channels as all of them are air transmissions; my family doesn't have cable since ironically the ISP don't provide HD channels unlike the free air transmission.

of course now that the congress is pulling federal funding from PBS

I expect a slow decline then they will be gone. or them to switch to having more ads then just sponsors before the shows.

no more Brit coms

NOOOOOOOO!

Seriously, though, my hatred for conservatives is growing in logarithmic scale. They're just a bunch of narrow-minded, selfish, greedy and uncaring people who have no empathy and don't really care about society or their country. They want to create a two-class system - the poor and the rich. They want to control our personal lives. They want to remove differing points of view. Simpy put, they cannot see the forest for the trees.

And no, I don't give a hoot if that ticks them off because it is true.

Barbarossa

They have two reasons for yanking funding:

1: The budget. I find it hard to believe that some politicians don't take a 13+ or 14+ trillion dollar debt seriously. I wonder how they manage their own finance?

2: The folks that approved the fund yanking may have disliked PBS's tendency of leaning toward the opposing side. Politics are a higher priority in many governments that people would think.

  Edited March 14, 2011 by Loney  

[FreewayofFlight 41]

If PBS should get eliminated, it could get replaced by a bunch of local university broadcasters. In Columbus, OH we have WOSU which is an educational channel, there's also the Ohio Channel, which is basically Ohio C-SPAN. Both channels are commercial free and can often have engaging content.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

If PBS should get eliminated, it could get replaced by a bunch of local university broadcasters. In Columbus, OH we have WOSU which is an educational channel, there's also the Ohio Channel, which is basically Ohio C-SPAN. Both channels are commercial free and can often have engaging content.

One truly hopes so. TVO started at Ryerson University but grew big enough to be taken over in major part the the Government of Ontario. Somehow it still manages to keep its independent editorial and programming policies.

For broadcast range, interested parties may follow the link into a can of worms.

  Edited March 14, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[EyeofMobius 27]

Ah Calgary has the Access Channel which last I recall had feature movies showing during primtime unedited uncensored. These movies were screened for a number of alberta colleges and universities which run an english course on critical film reviewing. The benifit of this was that even without cable I was still able to watch a decent movie through bunny ears. (sidenote: i refused free basic cable for my apartment much to the disgruntlement of my girlfreind at the time).

As far as consumerism goes: anyone with noble ideas of how we are a caring and helpful race of sentient beings is sorely misguided. Some people seem to believe that the only harm we inflict on each other is through violence and other things which are frequently illegal. The truth of the matter is that far more exploitation is taking place on the acceptable side of the map and it is being taught and praised as human nature. Life was so much simpler when we were cavemen hitting each other over the head until someone gave up the hunk of meat.

I personally view consumerism and the subtle drive behind it to be one of the greatest evils we inflict upon each other. I see the advertisers essentially seeking to make everyone insecure and afraid of the unknown. Next time you hanker for some adbusting of your own think about all the ads you have just been exposed to and then try and figure out how many connect to fears of lonlieness. It will likely be more than you think; maybe even everything you find. I'll come back with my own sights on that after a few of you have had time to really contemplate it.

On a related note have you ever really been alone? Did you want to be alone? Was it as bad as you thought?

I personally am a huge introvert much to the amazement of a number of my freinds and peers. I love being alone for days, weeks on end. I never feel anymore at peace than when I am deep in the wilderness with no one around. Solo bush camping is really amazing especially if you are lucky enough to be away from any flight paths; I love northern Canada. I have been places where I can go for weeks if needed without even a shred of human interaction around. I love being truly alone knowing that its just you and eveything unhuman until a bushplane comes and gets you two weeks later living off only what you brought with you.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I personally am a huge introvert much to the amazement of a number of my freinds and peers. I love being alone for days, weeks on end. I never feel anymore at peace than when I am deep in the wilderness with no one around. Solo bush camping is really amazing especially if you are lucky enough to be away from any flight paths; I love northern Canada. I have been places where I can go for weeks if needed without even a shred of human interaction around. I love being truly alone knowing that its just you and everything unhuman until a bushplane comes and gets you two weeks later living off only what you brought with you.

that sounds so great.

Me and My grandfather used to do that during the summer when i was kid in Michigan's Upper Peninsula which is as close to Canada as you can get. of course were he lived you only had to hike a few miles to be out of site and hearing of civilization.

lived off fish we caught and couple tents and meager supplies we brought with us.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

@Eyeofmoebius: Well, yes. And a lot of ads also use peer pressure.

Alone? I am alone most of the time since my wife passed away and I moved to a place I can afford. I get out shopping once a week. I live in a senior's apartment building and the other suites are mostly occupied by little old ladies waiting for God. When he comes for me, he'll have a fight on his hands. I am not going.

When I was younger, I did a lot of solo sailing. Being in the wilderness is fine, but have you ever been really alone on the water with no land in sight, just you, and the wind. If you want to get a picture of this, find an old book published in 1906 called "Sailing Alone Around the World" by Joshua Slocum. Slocum is the first recorded solo circumnavigation. He was last seen leaving Halifax harbor, Irish pennants flying.

I was taken up in a sail plane on a couple of occasions so the pilot could get some hours in, and I shared his fee. That is almost alone, and in a glider with just the wind and the sky is an experience to be treasured. The poem High Flight says it. You can find it on the net. When one of my friends passed away, a card with this poem was found in his wallet. He flew with the RAF in 1940. The poem was read at his funeral.

Back on topic: I agree that consumerism and its acolyte, advertising, are a blight on the body politic. The relationship is always adversarial.

[Easy Bakes 253]

lets make a list of the things whos sales would not drop if they stoped advertising

Ill start

Beer.

  Edited March 17, 2011 by Easy Bakes  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

lets make a list of the things whose sales would not drop if they stopped advertising

I'll start

Beer.

Wine

Booze of any kind

Tobacco

Soap/detergent

Foodstuffs

Food wrap

Pots and Pans

home appliances

furniture

home entertainment gear

communications gear

[Cobraroll 138]

^The first four points on that list are illegal to advertise in Norway. Yet, we're apparently high up on the list of consumption of wine, beer and booze per capita. And tobacco is being used in large quantities as well, though not by smoking. Actually, I think the bottom two points (communications and home entertainments gear) would suffer the most if advertising was stopped.

  Edited March 18, 2011 by Cobraroll  

[EyeofMobius 27]

To my previous point I consider anything peer pressure, romance, looking cool or trendy and pretty much anything touching the image of you or your possesions to be directly or indirectly feeding the fear of lonlienss. My one sister is a serious victim of this to the point where she can't be out of a relationship for more than a couple weeks at a time because she can't fathom a life without others and has sacrifcied any opportunity to experience the world for herself; she also consumes more than most people I know.

On the current momentum of the thread...

Anything Vice or immoral doesn't need advertising it will just be around no matter how much the righteous clamp down on it.

I think cleaning stuff will suffer without advertising because I dont see younger generations giving a care about possesions when they are otherwise taught on all fronts it seems to buy a new one if it is broken. I have met families that only use disposable dishes and also people who dont wash clothes they just go out and buy new ones.

I think sales would drop on most things without advertising but there would be an increase in the sales of raw materials as people figure out how to make stuff themselves and just invent things to fill a purpose they have as individuals. I am almost certain that most of the greatest inventions in history have been created by someone who had something to do themselves and made something to do it with.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I wonder what would happen if prices were changed to get rid of artificially inflated levels.

I heard an ad onthe radio today for the dodge ram truck, $12,000 off list price. realy 12 grand OFF?

HOw over priced are those if that can still make a proffit knocking 12k off.

  Edited March 19, 2011 by Easy Bakes  

[iuri99 48]

I wonder what would happen if prices were changed to get rid of artificially inflated levels.

I heard an ad onthe radio today for the dodge ram truck, $12,000 off list price. realy 12 grand OFF?

HOw over priced are those if that can still make a proffit knocking 12k off.

Maybe the cars have not selling good, they are loosing profit to not come in deficit.

But the car industry continue to have high profit, the car commerce chain is really over priced. Maybe in next ten years the gas and steel prices turn the situation hard...

I see not trouble about prices, but how keep people poor (or paying high over prices) exclude some essential services, which could help to save money.

Its a bit confusing, but i will try to explain.

I'm going to compare with the Brazilian Automotive Industry.

We have the one of the highest tax to industry in planet. Everything in industry chain pay taxes, since the ox in farm, to the leader in car seat.

We don't have Euro n-cap and not similar to that here.

And public transportation, forget it.

But that trouble turn worst when the Big and Fat Industry Baron want to profit more and more.

Studies from universities says a car could be selled here about ( i will convert the prices to US Dollars) US$ 6.500 and with very profitable margin.

But we pay about 18.000 in a stupid 1000cc car, with nothing inside, just the mp3 radio and the A/C.

The taxes and fees in one year to car owners is approximatively 4.000 dollars !!!!

How we can buy a car and pay that ????

We have no Car Shredders, and the steel prices here are 30% more cheaper as in USA.

People continue to buying that, and because lowest quality cars, poor people drive junk cars.

Corolla costs 28.000 dollars, and the taxes are stupid, just riches can buy a new one.

Ok, the taxes are high, are the government guilty ?

No !

The car companies continue to offer just low quality cars over priced to keep the profits, and because other companies have no money to grow, we have no options.

We are loosing money: and wasting our resources !!!

How steel we are loosing when a car in 4 year is a junk ??

How many people pay more for autopieces, and how many government pay to extract more and more iron from our soil ??

For economists, we are good, expanding the economy.

I wonder when i see all money which turn us the 8th largest economy, wasted in a old profitable commerce chain, keeping people poor, not enriching us.

Sorry about my English mistakes.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I wonder what would happen if prices were changed to get rid of artificially inflated levels.

I heard an ad onthe radio today for the dodge ram truck, $12,000 off list price. realy 12 grand OFF?

HOw over priced are those if that can still make a proffit knocking 12k off.

The 12,000 is the cost of carrying the unsold vehicle, most likely. I don't think car manufacturers put cars in showrooms on consignment any more, so the dealer has to purchase it, fund the inventory, and pay for storage (taxes if he owns his lot) and maintenance of the space. In a commercial area of a big city, this doesn't come cheap, so it is worth that to get the beast off the lot and into the books as cash or an account receivable that can be factored. Besides, that 12 grand is already in the markup, so taking a mark down isn't all that drastic.

If you know anyone who works for that manufacturer, ask him what he would pay at the employee price.

By the way, in my world, k = 1024, g = 1000

[Duke87 1,070]

The thing you have to keep in mind with advertising is that is not about selling a particular type of product, it is about selling your product. People will obviously always still need to eat, but the what and where can change. McDonalds advertises to give you cravings for McDonalds, so you eat there instead of somewhere else.

And I question the assertion that there's such a thing which would sell just as well if it wasn't advertised. If ads weren't giving people food cravings, it is perfectly fathomable that we as a population might eat less and be less obese. If beer makers stopped advertising, you would remove a part of the peer pressure element, which is important in driving drinking.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

@duke87: I think the premise here is that there be no advertising.

If that were the case, what would the effect be on the packaging industry? Anyone besides me remember when most things came in plain wrappers and boxes with only the product name on them?

[EyeofMobius 27]

I am pleased when I buy things without a package; I also make an effort to ditch any packaging at the cash register.

While I have no evidence to support this I am certain that the science of creating an ad, a brand, a package or whatever else is used to inflict sales is more complex than putting people on the moon. I have read some reports of where a producer increased the market share of their product by 40% just from a market research company figuring out that they should change the label to have silver on it or somesuch silliness.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I am pleased when I buy things without a package; I also make an effort to ditch any packaging at the cash register.

While I have no evidence to support this I am certain that the science of creating an ad, a brand, a package or whatever else is used to inflict sales is more complex than putting people on the moon. I have read some reports of where a producer increased the market share of their product by 40% just from a market research company figuring out that they should change the label to have silver on it or somesuch silliness.

First maxim of selling: Sell the sizzle, not the steak.

[Loney 22]

I am pleased when I buy things without a package; I also make an effort to ditch any packaging at the cash register.

While I have no evidence to support this I am certain that the science of creating an ad, a brand, a package or whatever else is used to inflict sales is more complex than putting people on the moon. I have read some reports of where a producer increased the market share of their product by 40% just from a market research company figuring out that they should change the label to have silver on it or somesuch silliness.

I also read a report that shiny products tend to attract more sales than non-shiny products, which may explain why so many expensive jewelry and cars always seem to be shiny. The reason why? Before the modern times, the genus Homo had to decide which water would be the cleanest to drink. Obviously a clear looking water is often times reflective and more cleaner than a muddy water.

[airman15 4,113]

Has consumerism gone too far? In my opinion, yes. People who usually complain about commercials on TV don't realize that they end up paying for whatever is being advertised. If you want a good example, watch the South Park episode "Chinpokomon". Heres a link to the episode, no commercials- http://xepisodes.com/south-park/season-3/episode-11-chinpokomon/

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, I tried, but I never have been able to stomach South Park. I am pretty sure it falls into one of the fad categories that the episode was about. I watched about five minutes of it, and killed the window. Maybe I am just too sensitive to making some kind of joke about the War to End All Wars, especially dredging up the anti-Japanese propaganda. Maybe it is funny to the new generation, but is is not funny to me.

Sadly, you are correct. There is no doubt that we pay for the commercials, if not the physical products. If nothing else there is the time taken to dodge them, and of course time is $$. We also pay in our cable fees, etc. The worst thing is that we pay a social price that is beyond reason.

Down with Mad. Av!

[airman15 4,113]

Well, I tried, but I never have been able to stomach South Park. I am pretty sure it falls into one of the fad categories that the episode was about. I watched about five minutes of it, and killed the window. Maybe I am just too sensitive to making some kind of joke about the War to End All Wars, especially dredging up the anti-Japanese propaganda. Maybe it is funny to the new generation, but is is not funny to me.

Sadly, you are correct. There is no doubt that we pay for the commercials, if not the physical products. If nothing else there is the time taken to dodge them, and of course time is $. We also pay in our cable fees, etc. The worst thing is that we pay a social price that is beyond reason.

Down with Mad. Av!

Well, you do have a point about South Park, they are known for crossing lines that really shouldn't be crossed, just like when they made jokes about showing the Muslim prophet Muhammad. When I first saw the episode Chinpokomon I was shocked when they said Japan wanted to attack America like they did in WWII. But back to consumerism- when we pay for ads shown on TV, they will make enough money to put ads elsewhere such as web pages, newspaper/magazines and over the radio.

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, you do have a point about South Park, they are known for crossing lines that really shouldn't be crossed, just like when they made jokes about showing the Muslim prophet Muhammad. When I first saw the episode Chinpokomon I was shocked when they said Japan wanted to attack America like they did in WWII.

No, see, this is exactly why South Park is awesome. They're not afraid to offend a few people. We need more of that kind of attitude in the world - political correctness and "sensitivity" takes way too much fun out of things.

[airman15 4,113]

Well, you do have a point about South Park, they are known for crossing lines that really shouldn't be crossed, just like when they made jokes about showing the Muslim prophet Muhammad. When I first saw the episode Chinpokomon I was shocked when they said Japan wanted to attack America like they did in WWII.

No, see, this is exactly why South Park is awesome. They're not afraid to offend a few people. We need more of that kind of attitude in the world - political correctness and "sensitivity" takes way too much fun out of things.

that is true. i stand corrected. i'm just skeptical about various subjects.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, you do have a point about South Park, they are known for crossing lines that really shouldn't be crossed, just like when they made jokes about showing the Muslim prophet Muhammad. When I first saw the episode Chinpokomon I was shocked when they said Japan wanted to attack America like they did in WWII.

No, see, this is exactly why South Park is awesome. They're not afraid to offend a few people. We need more of that kind of attitude in the world - political correctness and "sensitivity" takes way too much fun out of things.

that is true. i stand corrected. I'm just skeptical about various subjects.

I am not easily offended and I try to be never politically correct except I try to stick to the PG13 rules of the board. However, the stereotype 'Nips' in that episode triggered a flashback for me to the 1940s that I'd rather not experience. There aren't many of us old eructations left these days.

Most people these days can't imagine the anti-'Nip' propaganda that was rampant in WW II after 1941-12-07. We declared war on them so fast you could feel the vacuum. In the U.K. House, someone upbraided Churchill for the polite language of his declaration, and he said "When you have to kill a man, it does no harm to smile".

[zahrul3 472]

@A Nonny Moose: I watched a TV documentary on the war and how the British resisted heavy bombing and shortages but they mananged to win the war, against a far more superior foe. Everything was in austerity, since the money was dedicated for the war, and the people held very high moral values. The same thing also happened in America. Nowadays, a simple budget cut by the government causes strikes here and there like in London and Wisconsin. America would be defeated easily if its citizens have extremely poor morale.

  Edited March 28, 2011 by zahrul3