Cities XL single player hands on impressions

[Androv 6]

Every *zone* is the same size - but the low density zones often have a number of houses on them. So the buildings aren't technically all the same size.

[ForceInfinity 0]

Originally posted by: Audacitor

And things get worse once you have an extablished infrastructure. Let's say you've got a nice retail zone you built with the block tool sandwiched between some medium density residential and your heavy density downtown area. To connect them all, there's a small avenue running from end to end. It wasn't always like this, of course. Your residential area used to be light, and your downtown area didn't exist, which is why you have only a small avenue. But now they have lots of traffic going through them, and your retail area is swamped in the crossfire; your small avenue isn't enough anymore.

I hope space efficiency isn't something you care about, because if you want to expand your small avenue, you're going to demolish it and a whole row of retail establishments to make room for the new big road. And once you put in the new road, you'll have space left over between the road and the next row of retail establishments. All that wasted space.

quote>

I hate to break this to you, but this is actually more realistic as this is something you have to do in real life.  Here in Sparks Nevada, there is a nasty bottleneck in the area of Pyramid Way and McCarran Blvd.  The RTC here wants to reconstruct that intersection into a SPUI and add extra lanes.  In order to do that, they're going to have to level a whole row of houses on the east side of Pyramid.  That sounds strangely similar to the issue you point out with having to lay waste to a row of retail establishments.  If you dont leave yourself right-of-way space, then you're going to fight that problem *every* time in real life as well as in a computer game.

[gutterclub 2,729]

True, but you can't build a 5x5 huge public housing building etc. It makes it look a little to generic and square.

Still think its great though.

[jsieczka 19]

Originally posted by: ForceInfinity

Originally posted by: Audacitor

And things get worse once you have an extablished infrastructure. Let's say you've got a nice retail zone you built with the block tool sandwiched between some medium density residential and your heavy density downtown area. To connect them all, there's a small avenue running from end to end. It wasn't always like this, of course. Your residential area used to be light, and your downtown area didn't exist, which is why you have only a small avenue. But now they have lots of traffic going through them, and your retail area is swamped in the crossfire; your small avenue isn't enough anymore.

I hope space efficiency isn't something you care about, because if you want to expand your small avenue, you're going to demolish it and a whole row of retail establishments to make room for the new big road. And once you put in the new road, you'll have space left over between the road and the next row of retail establishments. All that wasted space.

quote>

I hate to break this to you, but this is actually more realistic as this is something you have to do in real life.  Here in Sparks Nevada, there is a nasty bottleneck in the area of Pyramid Way and McCarran Blvd.  The RTC here wants to reconstruct that intersection into a SPUI and add extra lanes.  In order to do that, they're going to have to level a whole row of houses on the east side of Pyramid.  That sounds strangely similar to the issue you point out with having to lay waste to a row of retail establishments.  If you dont leave yourself right-of-way space, then you're going to fight that problem *every* time in real life as well as in a computer game.

quote>

The diffrence is that in real life if you take 5% of a lots space you are left with 95% space to build on and new buildings that fit that lot will be built.  In Cities XL if you take 5% of a lot you are left with 0% do to no building being able to fit in the new space.

[Abc987 3]

I just wanted to say that I started playing the game this afternoon, and I'm already getting bored with it. I'm very disappointed...There's just no aim to the game! I don't feel accomplished when I do something!

Maybe I just need to get used to the game. I'm going to continue playing so that I give it a shot, but...I don't know.

[smg77 0]

Well I forgot that I had pre-ordered this on Steam before I found out about the decision to screw over single player with no mass transit so unfortunately they got my money. I decided to install it and load it up just to see if I was missing anything and I'm really depressed. I was really looking forward to this game and it's like Sim City Societies and Spore all over again. I played through the tutorials and started a city but knowing that I'll never be able to set up a bus system or rail system makes me not care about anything else. I found the zoning to be very awkward and had to resort to placing single lots to get things to look the way I wanted without having a ton of random roads all over the place which is what happened if I used the square or free form tool.

I will admit that the graphics are nice but not having mass transit in the single player game just kills the rest of the game for me. Too bad Steam doesn't have a return policy...

[sparky66 0]

sinlge player could be great if:

1. sort out trading. Have more than one company to trade with offering different prices for different goods. these companies always availiable to trade. be able to trade with your other solo cities, so you could have 'specialised' cities.

2. let solo players buy PO content for a one-off fee. i would gladly pay a one off fee to be able to use PO content in single player. Perhaps if they released PO content to single players every six months, in a expansion pack that contained the last six months PO content (including mass transit). That would mean that PO subscibers still have the advantage of getting extra content first, but solo players would still be happy because they would get the content in the end. like i said, i wouldn't mind paying up to £20 for that, which is about six months PO subscription anyway, but i would get to use the content in solo mode and keep it indefinately.

it could also mean that alot of the people that aren't buying this game because they don't like the PO will buy it. i just don't like the fact that i can pay all that money and as soon as i stop paying i loose all my cities and my extra content.

remember MC, solo players paid for this game too!

other games can make lots of money from expansion packs without the need for subscriptions, so why can't CXL.

i fear the solo mode will stay feeling like an unfinished demo, whilst the PO will gradually become a great game. but what happens when the next big game comes along, and the PO subscribers stop paying?

[deanco 0]

Originally posted by: sparky66

 what happens when the next big game comes along, and the PO subscribers stop paying?quote>

Worse, what happens if they never start paying to begin with?

[sparky66 0]

Originally posted by: deanco

Originally posted by: sparky66

 what happens when the next big game comes along, and the PO subscribers stop paying?quote>

Worse, what happens if they never start paying to begin with?

quote>

well hopefully it will make MC see some sense and release solo expansion packs for a one off fee. like i said, other games can make money from expansion packs.

also (although unrelated) have you noticed that MC never comment on threads like these? they just seem to ignore them. just like they are ignoring solo players.

[GenXisT 127]

Thanks for the replies everyone, both good and bad. Looks like I won't be purchasing this game as it doesn't seem worth it at all. I'll save the money for MW2 and L4D2

[hehe 0]

It is always the same.

Buy never a game at start due to the fact that the price is high and the game has many bugs. After a while, the games are going to be cheaper and the bugs might have been solved.

In my opinion, the following points should be taken into account soon

1. Solo Player without authentication or at least a "save password" field. I have complex passwords which I don't like to remember.

2. Highway construction is crap.

3. Add-on for solo player with mass transport

4. Information how the different building affect the situation in the city. e.g. power plants should state how much MW they produce for the price.

5. Autogrid snapping must be improved when setting the zones manually. sometimes the building is misplaced and I have to demolish the zone again with a view to fill the space fully.

By the way:

MC are going to fail with PO. There will never be a market for this. I don't pay a monthly rate for playing the game occasionally over months/years sorry MC.

[Brandon8181 0]

It's really disappointing with everything we had hoped for. Maybe if we're lucky Cities XL will get there act together.

Brandon

[VisualCSharp 0]

I'm a long-time fan of city builders. I've played countless hours of SimCity 2000, 3000 and 4. I loved the technical depth of SimCity 4 but felt the game was feeling a bit aged. I am hoping CitiesXL can live up to everyone's high expectations.

I played through the tutorial and gathered some thoughts on the game. Feel free to respond however you'd like. Just note that this is not a formal review, but more of a brainstorm.

Pros:

• Game looks visually appealing. Much-needed upgrade over older SimCity series.
• Non-rectangular zoning opens up a whole new creative aspect to city-building.
• I like the "waiting" mouse cursor with the spinning blue circles.

Cons:

• Should not have to log in before playing in single player mode.
• No desktop or Start Menu icons created during installation.
• Much of the in-game text is far too small running at 1680x1050. I have better than 20/20 vision and it's difficult for me to read the text.
• Game needs more street level sound effects to increase immersive experience. I feel disconnected from my city.
• Need a tool to more accurately control curvature of roads. e.g., 90-degree curves, specify a radius, etc.
• Game should support any zoom level. Rather than fixed zoom levels, let the mouse wheel smoothly zoom in and out.
• Bridge tool is a bit awkward with regards to setting the elevation. The shift+drag feature causes the mouse cursor to quickly become out-of-sync with the cube indicating road elevation.
• Middle mouse+drag should allow rotation around the x-axis. Right now I can't get a good view of what's under my bridges unless I enter postcard mode, and when I do that the zoom levels are too discrete.
• A click+drag bulldozer mode would be nice, in order to more easily bulldoze anything within a bounding box.
• Although I can appreciate the humorous touch given to the tutorial banter between the Mayor and Kevin, I think the game could've benefited from a more straight-forward, technical approach to learning.
• The use of percentages throughout the game is meaningless. Why not simply use colored bubbles or some kind of gradient fill box to indicate satisfaction?
• The red/green employment indicators should remain when using the Jobs (Economy) tool. Right now, it will only remain for a few seconds. This causes me to have to re-select the tool while I plan where to place my zones.
• It's somewhat difficult to create 100% free-form agricultural, fuel, etc. areas.
• Not clear what the blue and brown lines leading to and from buildings indicate. I'm assuming it's traffic flow, but more detail would be helpful.
• Oftentimes when I "land" a bridge at one end, I am unable to junction a road to the bridge. I am forced to bulldoze the bridge and start again.
• Tool windows tend to overlay each other. Suggested improvement would be to only allow a single tool window to be open at one time.

Bugs:

• Mouse cursor scrolls outside of full-screen game window in a dual monitor configuration.
• Bottom of some in-game text is cut off.
• The View Options tool (as well as other tools) cannot be accessed when constructing something, but the tools themselves do not disappear. Instead, whatever you're constructing appears behind the tools.
• Why is the Bulldozer tool listed as "Decoration?"
• Flashing orange bounding box that is displayed when using construction tools does not properly sync with the changing size and location of the tool icons.
• Flashing orange bounding box frequently remains on screen even though its tool window has disappeared.
• See attached image for an avenue bug I discovered.

[SimBurger 0]

MISSING PROGRAM ICONS FOR GAME: AGREED

Huge huge HUGE pain that they dont even create icons on the desktop or Program Menu.

Major oversight Monte Cristo! First bug fix right there guys.

I even tried to drag and drop the EXE file from windows explorer into the program menu and it simply WILL NOT execute from there.

It executes from windows explorer but not if you move that shortcut anywhere else. NEver seen such a thing. Probably a vista bug of some sort, which only happens with this program?

As it stands I have to go into Windows explorer and navigate to the file just to play the game. Every time.

Any suggestions?

NAVIGATION:

This is my other biggest issue right now. For some reason pressing the up arrow makes the view pan down. Pressing down arrow makes view pan up. Alright ....

And When I try to make my avatar walk around a city - forget it.

It jumps. Hops. Stops. Does one thing with one keystroke and something different with the exact same keystrokes.

I have no idea why it does this. I can't make him walk. Sometimes he runs. Sometimes he wont move.

Its very very awkward trying to pan around the city.

Then again I am new to games like these so maybe they're all like this.

FONT SIZE ISSUES: AGREED

Beyond unreadably small on several of the zone menus.

[niloluiz 21]

As it stands I have to go into Windows explorer and navigate to the file just to play the game. Every time.

Any suggestions?

quote>

While the game don't create a shortcut or program group (many Vista games don't do this either) the shortcut IS created inside the GAMES menu.

Enter this menu and you will see a nice and shiny icon. Click with the right mouse button and select COPY.

Then go to your desktop and click again with the right mouse button and select PASTE SHORTCUT.

DONE.

You will have a desktop shortcut for the game.

Alternative method: Create a new shortcut direct in the desktop and put this command line (watch the quotation marks, it must be exactly the same as bellow)

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Monte Cristo\Cities XL\CitiesXL.exe" -lang="EN"

If the game installation is not C:\Program Files, then replace for the actual path.

I use Vista 64 and everything works fine in that regard.

[Centaur 0]

Originally posted by: deanco

Originally posted by: Centaur

I'm making around 10,000 per turn by trading surplus to the AI.  Sure, you don't get a good price, and maybe a few different AIs would make it better, but it seems to work fine for me.

quote>

I imagine trading TO the AI works, but for me, the option to do that usually isn't there.  No green check mark.  If you need something FROM the AI, good luck.  Once again, no green check marks to click on most of the time.  I have to literally look every few turns to see if Mr. OmniCorp has changed his mind.  Usually, he hasn't.  Very frustrating, not to mention poor gameplay.

quote>

Yeah, you're right - he doesn't normally want to sell.  Not good.

[barcasam7 185]

I've bin playing this game constantly for the last couple of days, I think the game is really fun and would recommend anyone buying, but don't expect everything you want in it firstly, The graphics are amazing and the way you can plop your buildings and have full control. Also I'm on a coast map and why can't I build beaches to make it look like one hell of a city. But the thing that I have noticed is the core game is better than Sim city 4, but not rush hour and sim city 4 was so good because of the content. I believe this game could easily be better then simcity 4 with some awesome content for free like off simtropolis downloads, why can't they do that, like you do on sim city 4 and pay for add-ons. This game needs transport soon though because it would be amazing seeing trains in these amazing graphics. One other thing is that the education buildings and leisure and all that lot, the buildings are way to small for me tbh, the schools are so small as a house, what the hell! schools these days are about 5 houses put together. Same with the bowling alley way to small and swimming complex. Different size lots would help and they could easily do with more buildings in the game especially skyscrapers and houses. I could ramble on about how much they could do to improve the game, but the fact is that the core game is better then sim city 4 on its own, but not deluxe. So monte cristo bring some damn content out for single players because all the downloads seem for PO which i don't play because it don't interest me. But I would happily pay

[tonymustang302 0]

Originally i had reserves about the game, but the idea that MC is always going to be updating the game makes me like it more.  I started out my cities, and quickly ran out of money, then the more i played it, i figured out how to make money.  Basically build slow, let your city settle for a little, then build more, settle for a bit, then build more.  I have a city making a constant 20K and EVERYONE is happy.  Again, this game is an early release, they are probably constantly working on bugs, i like the idea that the log in screen checks for updates, rather then me searching for them on a website.

Over all the game will grow into what we want.  If someone creates a moneytree i wont leave my computer  

[Mathew_MC 0]

Thank you all for the feedback which I am compiling to share with the devs.

On the few points I can provide you with answers right now:

Originally posted by: VisualCSharp

No desktop or Start Menu icons created during installation.quote>

This is not a bug. It is actually a Games for Windows specification for Windows Vista and Windows 7 that the shortcut is created only in the "Games" menu.

A shortcut is created on the desktop and in the Start Menu on Windows XP though.

Originally posted by: VisualCSharp

Much of the in-game text is far too small running at 1680x1050. I have better than 20/20 vision and it's difficult for me to read the text.quote>

You can scale the interface in the option menu.

Are there any specific panels or menus where you find the text particularly hard to read? Such has freigh and passanger resource panel and some columns titles maybe?

Originally posted by: SimBurger

This is my other biggest issue right now. For some reason pressing the up arrow makes the view pan down. Pressing down arrow makes view pan up. Alright ....quote>

I couldn't reproduce this issue. So it might be a bug or another issue.

Can you be more specific? Does it happen in all modes (Planet View, Avatar mode, City mode)? Does anyone else have the issue?

[The Bluejay 40]

I always find it funny how devs only ever (not just MC, this is true of all devs, managers, company people) answer questions or address issues they can spin into something either neutral or positive for the company, and usually minor things too. Bigger problems, like power plants nat saying how much power is being produced, mass transit, road building issues? The problems the op mentioned? Nah, we'll focus on desktop icons, the option a person missed and a small glitch *eye-roll* No offence to MC!

Other than that, nothing really new to add to the mixture. A fun game, but I find it lacks the "just a few more minutes" factor of SC4. Similar to spore, then. Play it for a few days and never pick up again.

[wingtip 0]

Installation went smoothly (within half an hour) through the tips in another thread about download managers.

My mouse speed is ok.

The shortcut can easily be created by dragging the game file to the desktop.

My avatar is good looking

I think the zoom and rotate action is very organic.

I think it is stupid that I can not play the game NOW (even a single  game) because the server is shut down. Yesterday I had a few hours of provider maintenance: with the same consequences; I couldn't play.

Graphics are ok, but not perfect.

The map really looks nice. the outlays are fine. Upgrading a road was easy but not super easy (as in real life).

I love the fact that I do not have to lay out a water suppply / electricity grid.

I love the way you can easily fill up spaces with parks etcetera.

I love the easy recognisable effect of civic features to the community.

I would like to have more control of architecture style in certain areas. NOW it is a messy eclectic style.

More experiences will follow as soon as I can continue playing

[rhenry 1]

The one way I have found to gain any control over the architecture, if you would even call it control, is to delete whatever pops up until I like what's there. I've been trying to do this with redundant buildings in my downtown area. Sometimes the same one pops back up but then I just delete again.

[morriswalters 16]

look in the options menu and you can turn on plopping.

[SimBurger 0]

First off, thank you for being here.  That says a LOT about Monte Cristo that they've got people here actively participating.   Says so much.   If you're good at compiling bugs from people's feedback, this will be huge for improving the game.  Consider us your QA team   

You can scale the interface in the option menu. Are there any specific panels or menus where you find the text particularly hard to read?quote>

Good to know.  For me its laying zones.  Clicking one type generates those square, single, rectangle, etc boxes near the bottom of the screen for Residential Zones.  Hovering over those, and several other elements brings up menus and descriptions that are brutally tiny. 

pressing the up arrow makes the view pan down. Pressing down arrow makes view pan up. Alright .... Can you be more specific? Does it happen in all modes (Planet View, Avatar mode, City mode)? Does anyone else have the issue?quote>

1)  City Mode

2)  Zoom all the way down to street level. 

3)  Using only keyboard - no mouse.  Arrows. 

4)  The way to look up and look down is hold Control + Up arrow or Control + Down arrow.

5)  Unfortunately down arrow makes the guy look up.  Up arrow makes the guy look down.

Peculiar Characters Appearing on hover over "4"quote>

This "alt tag" (so to speak) appears when hovering over the "4" icon.  I dont remember if this was in the tutorial or regular city.  

Registration Process Challengesquote>

1)  Upon first loading the game, you take the user to a Registration page.  User fills in Registration form, and clicks to complete.  User is then taken to the main CitiesXL webpage.  In IE 8 base install user is presented with a popup asking if they would like to load only the secure items on the page?  Click yes or no.  I believe this can be resolved by having all elements on your main page inside an HTTPS directory.  Most likely there are some images being shown in the page that are not also in HTTPS.  

2)  Frustratingly, the user should be told at this point, on the page, that they need to check their email and click the activation link.  There is no information on the page saying this.  So I was stumped.   Someone mentioned that the note *IS* there, but I did not see it.  So maybe make it much more noticeable. 

3)  As a result, instead of checking my Email, I tried to just start the game.  I typed my username as "SimBurger", and was presented with the message "Invalid Characters in Login".  I was completely stumped as there are no invalid characters in my log in.  After 10 minutes I figured out your program wanted lowercase letters only.  Industry standard, as far as I know, doesn't consider capital letters to be invalid characters.  If your program does, this should be communicated clearly. 

4)  I fixed my username and attempted to log in again.  This time it said  "Invalid Login or Password".  No other explanation.  Again I was completely stumped.  This was happening because I had not checked my email nor clicked the link, nor unlocked the game.  The reason why is because at no point had anything, anywhere, told me to I needed to do this. 

5)  So I checked my email and clicked the link.  Astonishingly, even the email itself says absolutely nothing about needig to click the link before being able to play the game.  It says nothing about the link being a method by which to unlock the game, nor the place where you need to enter your Certificate Key.  It really should.

6)  After entering the product key, you again send me back to the Cities XL main page, which again asks me if I want to load "unsecure" content.  And true to form there is absolutley nothing on the web page which states that my game is now unlocked, my login is now activated, and I can now play the game.   This information really should be conveyed in big huge letters.

Pausing the Game in Planet Offer Modequote>

This is just a want, not a need.  But I do like to take several minutes, or longer, to stop building and get down on the ground to cruise my city.  It helps me get a feel for how things are laid out, distances, and picking places for certain elements based on geography.  Unfortunately I keep getting nag screens every 20 seconds that the city needs attention.  Im not able to take any time out to stop and smell the roses.  My money goes up or down, my employment changes, buildings go from alert to bankrupt, all in the 15 mins Im trying to check things out.  I hate not having control over the play speed., and the ability to pause. People mentioned that the game can't be paused in PO mode because its live with other players, and would lose sync.  Why not just do a save on a Pause, then a resync when its started again?  Is it a server-strain issue?

Controlling your Avatar while walking through someone elses cityquote>

The avatar movement control is extremely extremely difficult.   The keyboard is the only thing I have. 

1)  I can not consistently make him walk.  

2)  I try arrows, control+arrow, shift, etc.  

3)  Sometimes he breaks out into a sprint.  Other times he walks. 

4)  Most of the time he just hops once forward.  Always doing a little hop. 

5)  If I do figure out a keystroke to make him run, or walk, or do something, I can execute the exact same keystroke again and he *wont* do the same action.  

6)  I can right click somewhere on the map and he goes there. 

7)  Sometimes he gets stuck on the side of a skyscraper and I can't get him to go up or down

  I put him in a park once, and he was waist deep in grass.  Couldn't see his legs

This entire function needs to be addressed.  Maybe copy over the functions for the street view navigation/movement.  It seems to work fairly well there.  But currently, keyboard only, I can't make the guy do what I want him to do.  Even basic things.

Thanks again for being here.  Monte Cristo is doing the right thing!

SimBurger

[wieringak 0]

When they say the "Games" folder, they mean the separate area that you can get to by clicking "games", under music, on the right side of the start menu

[niloluiz 21]

Originally posted by: SimBurger

The icon is not in the Games menu in Windows Vista.quote>

Did you ever bother to look at the Games menu (not folder) before taking the screenshot of the wrong place?

The Games menu (below the 'Music' option in your own image) It's not a simple folder, this menu is kinda a Control Panel for games and if CXL installed correctly the icon IS there so check again. Once found, you can copy and paste a shortcut for it on the desktop.

[SimBurger 0]

I assumed it was the same thing as the games folder.

Why is it in "GAMES" .............but its not in "GAMES" ?

That makes a ton of sense.

SimBurger

[niloluiz 21]

That's Vista fault. I just checked my games folder and the icon isn't there too, but it is in the Games "control panel".

[Overkast 2]

To be fair, I'm sure (based on Mathew's replies in this forum) that Monte Cristo is hard at work right now trying to fix a bunch of bugs and issues being observed in these forums and elsewhere to try and make this the really great game which we all know it can be. So I can only hope they would also recognize the outcry to seriously reconsider some of the long-term limitations they're placing on single-player mode. The mentioned plans to restrict content to only PO subscribers blatantly translates into nothing more than a penalty for those not spending continuous cash for their game, and it's pure segregation.

Imagine you ordered a computer from a computer store and they shipped it to you in pieces, but over a long span of time. On top of that, they said to keep those computer parts you need to keep sending them money every month or you lose them. Would you be angry? I'm sure you would... because when you pay for goods you want to own them permanently.

Well, this is precisely what's happening with the current proposed business model around this game right now. Ship an unfinished product, patch it up over time, release new content to subscribers but take it back if they stop the continuous cash flow, and make sure the single players are ignored. It's not a healthy strategy to sustain a long-term loyal customer base. And so if short-term thinking is an acceptable margin for Monte Cristo, then what happens if they abandon ship on this game down the road? The server-reliant connectivity for running the game even in single-player will no longer work and no one will ever be able to even revisit the game off their shelves in the future.

In order to sustain a long-term customer base, I would advise MC to unlock the single-player game from it's server dependency, and also re-structure their Planet Offer business model as a rent-to-own service on content releases. This means if people subscribe to PO long enough then they earn (through payment accruals over time) the worth of released content, and thus they have theoretically "purchased" and get to keep the released content permanently and use it in single-player mode going forward, and forever. This way, if the PO is even abandoned down the road then people will still have their UNLOCKED single-player mode and the released content they earned and paid for when they want to revisit the game off the shelf (which I've done at least 5 times with SC4 since it was released).

This is more of a win-win model for everyone, because it at least:

1. Makes single-player mode guaranteed to run forever without server dependency
2. Promises permanent ownership of additional content to PO subscribers for their single-player modes which again would then run forever
3. Becomes a huge incentive for proclaimed-only single-players to now reconsider in subscribing to PO to earn additional content to own permanently
4. Promises to bring in that "continuous cash" to Monte Cristo which they so obviously desire

I would absolutely buy this game and subscribe to PO if MC promised those 4 bullets to us at reasonable prices for earning ownership on new content releases. HOWEVER, if they want my monthly cash then they absolutely would need to make it a guaranteed promise that I'm not pissing my money away with nothing to show for it in the long-term.

[JanYpe 17]

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